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Skyteam And Code-share Usage In Los Angeles  
User currently offlineAirAfreak From United States of America, joined Apr 2012, 730 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 4014 times:
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*Alitalia at Terminal 2 (as per the database photo pictured with KLM 744 Combi), but check-in at Terminal 5?
*Air France at Terminal 2 and Tom Bradley International Terminal (departures from two different terminals for A380 and 772/3)
*Virgin Australia departures from Terminal 3, but arriving at Terminal 5?
*China Southern departures from Terminal 5, but arriving at Tom Bradley, and then both departures/arrivals from Tom Bradley when A380 from Canton/Guanghzou commence service?
*Aeromexico no longer at Terminal 5?
*Air France at Terminal 5 (ground handling from Delta) some years ago and now at Terminal 2/TBIT?
*Some years ago, China Southern check-in at Delta Terminal 5.


For us a.net users, we can follow instructions as to where to check-in, however, this can be quite confusing for Skyteam Passengers not familiar with Skyteam connections in Los Angeles. This does not seem to be seamless travel as Skyteam advertises.

Why can we not have a single Skyteam Terminal with a Skyteam Lounge as in for example, Heathrow? Why does Delta no longer do the ground handling for Air France? Why can't KLM operate from Terminal 5? Why can we not make the Delta SkyClub a Skyteam Lounge in Terminal 5? Is gate usage so restricted, that we cannot have all Skyteam flights departing from the Terminal 5? Why cannot we convert one gate to an A380 gate?

These are many questions that run through my mind because it seems LAX Airport Authorities have greater flexibility than we are led to believe.

So, why all the changes????


Do you lead an Intercontinental life?
12 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9555 posts, RR: 14
Reply 1, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 3944 times:

Quoting AirAfreak (Thread starter):
Why can we not have a single Skyteam Terminal with a Skyteam Lounge as in for example, Heathrow?

Space. no where to put them. Same reason why Star and OW are in at least 2 different terminals.

Quoting AirAfreak (Thread starter):
Why does Delta no longer do the ground handling for Air France?

few reasons.
1) T5 is terrible for 747 opps. Delta's own 747 flights always use T6.
2) I don't think AF was to happy with the Delta operation in LA.
3) Delta doesn't have the space for AF as is.
4) AF's LAX-PPT flight would have to have PAX from CDG deal with customs. In T2 They have a holding room so they don't have to re-clear and such.

Quoting AirAfreak (Thread starter):
Why can't KLM operate from Terminal 5?

space.

Quoting AirAfreak (Thread starter):
Why can we not make the Delta SkyClub a Skyteam Lounge in Terminal 5?

You could but that seems pointless with only Delta flying into T5 and it staying that way for the foreseeable future.

Quoting AirAfreak (Thread starter):
Is gate usage so restricted, that we cannot have all Skyteam flights departing from the Terminal 5?

Yes. Delta is having to remote park because of space. No room at all at T5 for any more carriers.

Quoting AirAfreak (Thread starter):
Why cannot we convert one gate to an A380 gate?

Nope. T5s only 744 gate shuts down the one next to it. (and i'm pretty sure the aft end of the 380 would be sticking out on the taxiway.

Quoting AirAfreak (Thread starter):
Alitalia at Terminal 2 (as per the database photo pictured with KLM 744 Combi), but check-in at Terminal 5?

Don't think so. AFAIK AZ is totally in T2.

Quoting AirAfreak (Thread starter):
Virgin Australia departures from Terminal 3, but arriving at Terminal 5?

Yeah....Pleases Delta and VX i guess. (this one seems stupid to me too. pick a target)

Quoting AirAfreak (Thread starter):
*China Southern departures from Terminal 5, but arriving at Tom Bradley, and then both departures/arrivals from Tom Bradley when A380 from Canton/Guanghzou commence service?

Not that I know of. I believe CZ is 100% in TBIT with KE.

Quoting AirAfreak (Thread starter):
Aeromexico no longer at Terminal 5?

No moved to T2 due to space and the fact that FIS at T5 has sorry hours. They were having to bus to TBIT more than they used the T5 FIS.



yep.
User currently offlineAirAfreak From United States of America, joined Apr 2012, 730 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 3765 times:
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@DeltaL1011man...

*it's funny you mention AF was not too happy with DL at T5. I happen to personally know a former AF agent that now works for DL and for the period AF operated flights from T5, this agent (French Speaking and Former AF Agent) also happened to mention the same that AF was not happy with DL but without specific reason. As of now, the station manager for AF @ LAX, her name is Veronique and she has been managing the station for many years and even she cannot give an answer as to why DL was not up to AF standards. I happen to know DL scheduled French Speaking Agents to check in the Paris and Papeete flights and the service was better than expected and also DL was the operator for tour packages to Tahiti.

*Re KLM 744 gate usage, it has been shown from time-to-time, based on unscheduled equipment changes, the Boeing 747-400 has operated from Terminal 5 at the very end of the concourse closest to the taxiways so this has not been an issue. DL has operated unscheduled 744 flights from LAX @ T5 to Narita and the unscheduled MSP flights - very rare, but this has been done. T5 can handle 744 at the very end of the T5 Concourse as it can also handle A330 and 772 flights. It has also operated 772 operated by China Southern from LAX to Canton nonstop via Terminal 5. So, clearly, T5 does not have operational restriction, only, the issue could be timing.



Do you lead an Intercontinental life?
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25741 posts, RR: 50
Reply 3, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 3575 times:

Quoting AirAfreak (Thread starter):
*Air France at Terminal 2 and Tom Bradley International Terminal (departures from two different terminals for A380 and 772/3)

Yes A380 ops are at TBIT. T-2 has not A380 compatible gates.

AF will be moving full time to TBIT in next year.

Quoting AirAfreak (Thread starter):
*Virgin Australia departures from Terminal 3, but arriving at Terminal 5?

VA is not in Skyteam. They use the DL FIS facility, but have their own ticket counter and handling next to Virgin America in T-3 for departure.

Quoting AirAfreak (Thread starter):
*China Southern departures from Terminal 5, but arriving at Tom Bradley, and then both departures/arrivals from Tom Bradley when A380 from Canton/Guanghzou commence service?

CZ has been at TBIT for years --- 2007.

Quoting AirAfreak (Thread starter):
*Aeromexico no longer at Terminal 5?

Yes they left for a better home in T-2 in 2009.

Quoting AirAfreak (Thread starter):
*Air France at Terminal 5 (ground handling from Delta) some years ago and now at Terminal 2/TBIT?

Yes AF left DL and moved to T-2 under a single roof with KLM in 2005.

Quoting AirAfreak (Thread starter):
Why can we not have a single Skyteam Terminal with a Skyteam Lounge as in for example, Heathrow?

Well there is a master and large Skyteam branded lounge at LAX -- its at TBIT.

Quoting AirAfreak (Thread starter):
Why does Delta no longer do the ground handling for Air France?

Simply put DL is not the best handler. Same reason why Swissair left Delta for handling. US carriers are not quite known for being detailed oriented or willing to modify the way they do things to meet standards of others. When things go wrong DL will cover its own flights, and leave the customer waiting.

Over the years many airlines have come and gone from Delta handling...

Anyhow T-5 was not practical for the Tahiti transit flights, so no matter what DL needed to split operations, with the PPT flights being at TBIT.

Ultimately the AF-DL relationship at LAX was stressful, with DL at the end serving notice that it no longer had the staffing to work AF flights.

Quoting AirAfreak (Thread starter):
Is gate usage so restricted, that we cannot have all Skyteam flights departing from the Terminal 5?

T-5 is a small place, that was built for mostly all 727 ops. Even today DL has issues with fitting its own widebody flights.

Quoting AirAfreak (Thread starter):
Why can't KLM operate from Terminal 5?

KLM is joined at the hips with AF. Anyhow KLM has been home in T-2 since the early 1990s.

Quoting AirAfreak (Thread starter):
Why cannot we convert one gate to an A380 gate?

No plans for a T-5 A380 gate. It would frankly be a waste as it would cause the loss of adjacent gates.

Quoting AirAfreak (Reply 2):
the station manager for AF @ LAX, her name is Veronique

AF LAX manager is a male.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineNW From United States of America, joined Jun 2008, 152 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 3465 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 3):
KLM is joined at the hips with AF. Anyhow KLM has been home in T-2 since the early 1990s.

KL is a little more joined to Delta, KL still uses DLTerm for ground handling at LAX. Left over from the NWA days of using PARS/AOP.


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25741 posts, RR: 50
Reply 5, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 3448 times:

Quoting NW (Reply 4):
KL is a little more joined to Delta, KL still uses DLTerm for ground handling at LAX. Left over from the NWA days of using PARS/AOP.

     

Delta has no interest in T-2.

Following the NW merger, in 2010 DL dumped its ownership stake in T-2 (LAX-Two Corp).



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineEddieDude From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 7592 posts, RR: 42
Reply 6, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 3418 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 3):
Yes they left for a better home in T-2 in 2009.

Wasn't it in 2010 or 2011? I recall checking-in for AM at T5 as late as 2010.



Next flights: MEX-GRU (AM 77E), GRU-GIG (JJ A320), SDU-CGH (G3 73H), GRU-MEX (JJ A332).
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25741 posts, RR: 50
Reply 7, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 3403 times:

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 6):
Wasn't it in 2010 or 2011? I recall checking-in for AM at T5 as late as 2010.

November 20, 2009.

See
Terminal 2 @ At LAX (by 767ER Oct 15 2009 in Civil Aviation)
and
Aeromexico Moving To LAX T2? (by EddieDude Dec 2 2009 in Civil Aviation)

Your own thread above  



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlinesteex From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 1689 posts, RR: 9
Reply 8, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 3387 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 3):
VA is not in Skyteam. They use the DL FIS facility, but have their own ticket counter and handling next to Virgin America in T-3 for departure.

Just to expand on this point a little for the OP - T-3 doesn't have a connection to an FIS facility. As LAXintl notes, Virgin Australia has its own infrastructure at T-3, but is forced to bring arriving pax to a terminal that has FIS. Virgin America similarly takes arriving pax from its CUN flight to the T-2 FIS.

[Edited 2012-08-10 10:38:15]

User currently offlineEddieDude From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 7592 posts, RR: 42
Reply 9, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 3372 times:

Thanks LAXintl. I suppose my perception of time is kind of f'ed up haha, unless they had split departures and arrivals during a transition period?


Next flights: MEX-GRU (AM 77E), GRU-GIG (JJ A320), SDU-CGH (G3 73H), GRU-MEX (JJ A332).
User currently offlineBraniff747SP From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 2997 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 2849 times:

Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 1):
Don't think so. AFAIK AZ is totally in T2.

Confirmed; flew to FCO a little more than a month ago and AZ check-in and departure is indeed from Terminal 2.



The 747 will always be the TRUE queen of the skies!
User currently offlineAirAfreak From United States of America, joined Apr 2012, 730 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 2504 times:
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Quoting LAXintl (Reply 3):

It must have been recent as Veronique has been the station manager for quite some time...

=]



Do you lead an Intercontinental life?
User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9555 posts, RR: 14
Reply 12, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 2263 times:

Quoting AirAfreak (Reply 2):

*Re KLM 744 gate usage, it has been shown from time-to-time, based on unscheduled equipment changes, the Boeing 747-400 has operated from Terminal 5 at the very end of the concourse closest to the taxiways so this has not been an issue. DL has operated unscheduled 744 flights from LAX @ T5 to Narita and the unscheduled MSP flights - very rare, but this has been done. T5 can handle 744 at the very end of the T5 Concourse as it can also handle A330 and 772 flights. It has also operated 772 operated by China Southern from LAX to Canton nonstop via Terminal 5. So, clearly, T5 does not have operational restriction, only, the issue could be timing.

Yeah...uh thanks. I know what gates can handle what at LAX. It shuts down both gates next to the 747 when it flys into T5. So yes they could and then Delta would lose three gates at its already super packed T5.

and the sae goes for the 332 or 777 opps its shuts the end gate. T5 is a good for 767 and smaller. Its also why you see most of Delta large aircraft at T6.



yep.
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