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Bombardier CSeries Update Part 2  
User currently offlineaircellist From Canada, joined Oct 2004, 1721 posts, RR: 8
Posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 25035 times:

As the preceding thread about the CSeries is now archived,

Bombardier CSeries Update (by CRJ900X Jun 19 2012 in Civil Aviation)


I take the liberty of starting a new one, with this official admission of the possibility that the CSeries first flight might be late...

http://www.aviationweek.com/Article....e-xml/awx_08_09_2012_p0-484800.xml

Quote from Bombardier's CEO: "Beaudoin, however, is cautious about the first flight timeline, noting the complex nature of the program–Bombardier’s first complete fly-by-wire aircraft–and says he would still consider the program on track even if first flight were to slip three to five months. “One challenge in an aircraft program like this is what you don’t know,” he says."

In the preceding thread, there are comparisons with Airbus' progress with the A350. From what I understood, the comments were mostly to the effect that Airbus seems much more advanced in their testing, yet the A350's FF will be delayed by months, whereas up to now, Bombardier has kept the official "everything's on track" discourse. My first impression, comparing the A350's progress thread to the CSeries' one, is that Bombardier tends to keep every bit of information much closer to their chest than Airbus...

Anybody having more informations? Which shall fly first? CSeries or A350?

87 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinerikkus67 From Canada, joined Jun 2000, 1661 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 24908 times:

I am going to remian cautiously optimistic, and hope for a sooner rather than later first flight. If BBD is off by a few months, that will quickly be forgotten.

Correct me if I am wrong, but this will be the largest clean-sheet design ever built in Canada, correct?



AC.WA.CP.DL.RW.CO.WG.WJ.WN.KI.FL.SK.ACL.UA.US.F9
User currently offlineNorthStarDC4M From Canada, joined Apr 2000, 3038 posts, RR: 36
Reply 2, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 24892 times:
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Quoting rikkus67 (Reply 1):
Correct me if I am wrong, but this will be the largest clean-sheet design ever built in Canada, correct?

Clean sheet wise yes... which negates the DC-4M (just slightly wider wingspan) and CL-44/Argus lines.
The new closest would of been the Avro Canada Jetliner.



Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
User currently offlinetimboflier215 From United Kingdom, joined May 2005, 1338 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 24598 times:

Quoting aircellist (Thread starter):
Bombardier tends to keep every bit of information much closer to their chest than Airbus

Do you think this might be because Airbus learned from the A380 experience that being open and up front immediately with customers was better than a last minute admission of delays?

I really hope the CSeries does not slip too much, but I would not be surprised at all should the schedule move....


User currently offlinetomcat From Belgium, joined Sep 2000, 163 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 24567 times:

Quoting timboflier215 (Reply 3):
Do you think this might be because Airbus learned from the A380 experience that being open and up front immediately with customers was better than a last minute admission of delays?

For sure, one thing Airbus hasn't learned is how to remain on schedule. Customers would appreciate this even more than an open but late supplier.


User currently offlinepoint2point From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 2764 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 24520 times:

Okay, supposedly the C-Series are going to have their first flights by the end of this year, and will be able to make delivery dates by the end of 2013. This is the latest info that I have on this here, so anyone please feel free to correct if need be.

Now with that, I would assume that the RJET (Republic) order is still there, and that also from what info that I have is that they are to be the first ones to take delivery. If this is changed, please feel free to correct as well.

So, I guess my question is (and probably most here) is what is Republic going to do with these? Any new developments with this? I do believe that F9 is at present low on aircraft, but will probably be getting by with their Airbus orders of so 40 or so new planes over the next few years. And of course Republic's soon to be 'separation' from F9 probably complicates some here, but does anyone see this C-Series order as eventually ending up in F9 livery?

 


User currently offlineaircellist From Canada, joined Oct 2004, 1721 posts, RR: 8
Reply 6, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 24398 times:

Quote:


Quoting timboflier215 (Reply 3):
Quoting aircellist (Thread starter):
Bombardier tends to keep every bit of information much closer to their chest than Airbus

Do you think this might be because Airbus learned from the A380 experience that being open and up front immediately with customers was better than a last minute admission of delays?

I really hope the CSeries does not slip too much, but I would not be surprised at all should the schedule move....

I hope as well... I guess Airbus has learned at least that from the A380, yes. In French, we say: "Faute avouée est à moitié pardonnée", something like "an avowed fault is half forgiven"...


User currently offlineplanemaker From Tuvalu, joined Aug 2003, 6240 posts, RR: 34
Reply 7, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 23448 times:

Quoting aircellist (Thread starter):
Bombardier tends to keep every bit of information much closer to their chest than Airbus...

To a certain degree, unlike Airbus, BBD has little choice... they really can't afford for this program to slip significantly and any negative news just adds to airline concern that BBD has bitten of more than they can chew "comfortably" with the CSeries. However, an example of secrecy that backfired is when news of the barrel problems with Shenyang leaked out just before Farnborough and the press ran with that story during the show.

Quoting timboflier215 (Reply 3):
I really hope the CSeries does not slip too much, but I would not be surprised at all should the schedule move....

As has been reported in the press since before Farnborough, BBD has been prepping the media for a "possible" delay for first flight. While BBD is still driving for a theoretical end of year first flight (until the constantly re-jigged schedule can no longer be re-jigged BBD can state - "honestly," that they are still targeting end of year first flight) they have already been qualifying that by saying for quite some time that a 3-5 month delay is acceptable.

Quoting point2point (Reply 5):
Now with that, I would assume that the RJET (Republic) order is still there, and that also from what info that I have is that they are to be the first ones to take delivery.

RJET will not be the first to take delivery (their delivery date is in 2015). The first delivery (and the only scheduled for 2013) will be to an undisclosed airline that ordered 10 CS100s.

This is the current firm order book for 138 CSeries:

CS100 - 66 firm orders
(Qty / Airline / Scheduled EIS)

10 Undisclosed 2013
3 Undisclosed 2014
30 Swiss 2014
3 Lease Corporation International 2014
5 Braathens 2014
5 PrivatAir 2014
10 Undisclosed 201?

CS300 - 72 firm orders
(Qty / Airline / Scheduled EIS)

17 Lease Corporation International 2014
5 Braathens 2014
40 Republic Airways Holdings 2015
10 Korean Air 2015

Quoting point2point (Reply 5):
So, I guess my question is (and probably most here) is what is Republic going to do with these? Any new developments with this?

The only "developments" about Republic's CSeries was a trial balloon that Bedford floated at the end of May. He suggested that the CSeries could be the basis for a new low cost carrier for one of the global alliances. However, scope precludes that possibility.



Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25409 posts, RR: 86
Reply 8, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 23355 times:
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Quoting planemaker (Reply 7):
The only "developments" about Republic's CSeries was a trial balloon that Bedford floated at the end of May. He suggested that the CSeries could be the basis for a new low cost carrier for one of the global alliances.

He also said that the C Series would not be flown by Frontier:

http://blogs.montrealgazette.com/201...uld-be-destined-for-low-cost-wing/

"The CSeries will now be flown by Republic itself, not by Frontier, he added."

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineTangowhisky From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 931 posts, RR: 7
Reply 9, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 23280 times:

I completely understand the attention the CSeries is getting, but why is there so little interest on the MRJ? They are gaining some worthy orders, but their first flight and deliveries have slipped by way over a year. I think about two years since first launched. Why were MRJ never challenged on their dates? Is it because they were too vague?


Only the paranoid survive
User currently offlineplanemaker From Tuvalu, joined Aug 2003, 6240 posts, RR: 34
Reply 10, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 23142 times:

Quoting Tangowhisky (Reply 9):
Why were MRJ never challenged on their dates? Is it because they were too vague?

They were challenged on their dates... but with the certain level of "fluidity" to the program (not to mention the wing material switch, etc), on the one hand, and the fact that they were considered yet "another" RJ trying to break into a saturated market, on the other, the MRJ was able to keep a low profile... especially since they weren't targeting A or B's market.



Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7752 posts, RR: 18
Reply 11, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 23026 times:

Quoting timboflier215 (Reply 3):
I really hope the CSeries does not slip too much, but I would not be surprised at all should the schedule move....

I agree, but it seems like they haven't had many slip ups. I don't know if it's good or bad that we haven't heard much from them.

Quoting point2point (Reply 5):
Okay, supposedly the C-Series are going to have their first flights by the end of this year, and will be able to make delivery dates by the end of 2013. This is the latest info that I have on this here, so anyone please feel free to correct if need be.

Don't wanna be that guy, but who is launch customer?

Quoting planemaker (Reply 7):
This is the current firm order book for 138 CSeries:

Not too shabby for a relatively revolutionary design with a lot of competitors....anyone think that other airlines will make further orders?



我思うゆえに我あり。(Jap. 'I think, therefore I am.')
User currently offlineANM604 From Canada, joined Feb 2012, 141 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 22579 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 11):
Not too shabby for a relatively revolutionary design with a lot of competitors....anyone think that other airlines will make further orders?

Not many until it gets in the air, and some real numbers start coming out. Like many have said, what's the rush for any airline to jump into the fray now, why not wait for 6-12 months?


User currently offlineJoeCanuck From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 5476 posts, RR: 30
Reply 13, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 22229 times:

The so called 'bad news' was ancient news at farnborough and had already been long ago dealt with and problems solved...well before some tried to make it sound like a nail in a coffin. Besides, it didn't stop them selling 25 more planes, so it was only news to few reporters and wasn't even news to them for much more than a day.

Just because a.net isn't getting news, doesn't mean that customers or potential customers aren't being kept in the loop. Even if the schedule slipped by 6 months, that's still orders of magnitude better than some recent Boeing or Airbus products.

It would still be bad, but nothing tragic and would soon enough be relegated to a.net trivia threads.



What the...?
User currently offlineplanemaker From Tuvalu, joined Aug 2003, 6240 posts, RR: 34
Reply 14, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 20343 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 11):
Don't wanna be that guy, but who is launch customer?

They are not saying.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 11):
Not too shabby for a relatively revolutionary design with a lot of competitors....anyone think that other airlines will make further orders?

That is the question that I have been asking for a long time.

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 13):
The so called 'bad news' was ancient news at farnborough and had already been long ago dealt with and problems solved.

It is "bad news" because it highlighted that the fuselage partner could not manufacture the barrels. And it wasn't "ancient" since only in the past ~12 months that BBD came up with the temporary work around by having the work done in Spain and Montreal. Moreover, the temporary work around has, and is, costing more money and until production is moved back to Shenyang the problem has not been solved. Furthermore, as has been reported, until the work is moved back to Shenyang doubts will remain on how well BBD is able to manage the CSeries supply chain.

It seems that many people on here just can't begin to fathom just how much BBD has tried to bite off with the CSeries... CFRP wing, Al-Li fuselage and full FBW - with limited to no experience with these technologies and on such a scale. The only reason why they are a bit more forthcoming, now, on the FBW is because there is no "work around" on the FBW available (unlike the fuselage barrels) and first flight is looming.



Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7752 posts, RR: 18
Reply 15, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 20288 times:

Quoting planemaker (Reply 14):
Quoting PHX787 (Reply 11):
Don't wanna be that guy, but who is launch customer?

They are not saying.

Sooooooo you start a project with no launch customer declared? A bit risky in my opinion.

Quoting ANM604 (Reply 12):
Not many until it gets in the air, and some real numbers start coming out. Like many have said, what's the rush for any airline to jump into the fray now, why not wait for 6-12 months?

You know what, that makes perfect sense to me.



我思うゆえに我あり。(Jap. 'I think, therefore I am.')
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31098 posts, RR: 85
Reply 16, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 20267 times:
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Quoting PHX787 (Reply 15):
Sooooooo you start a project with no launch customer declared? A bit risky in my opinion.

As long as that launch customer's checks were good...  

I've long been a nattering nabob of negativism on the CSeries, but I do hope she is successful in the end. With both Airbus and Boeing both deciding to (effectively) scuttle the A318-100 and 737-600 as opposed to going with new engines, that fully opens the market to planes like the CSeries.

[Edited 2012-08-11 12:58:27]

User currently offlineJoeCanuck From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 5476 posts, RR: 30
Reply 17, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 20096 times:

Quoting planemaker (Reply 14):

The news was not only old, but replacement manufacturers were already in place and doing the work...for as long as they need. So by the time it was interesting enough to actually make the news, the problem had long been solved.

Boeing and Airbus have both had supplier issues and they solved their problems. BBD just solved theirs years earlier. Even after that 'bad' news, they still sold planes...those airlines either have information they just aren't sharing with a.net or they are all idiots.

I choose to believe the former. You can choose not to.

There has also been some good news for the CSeries. Both Boeing and Airbus have increased their estimates on how many 100-150 seat planes will be required over the next few decades...which happens to be a market segment they are busy abandoning. Exactly zero -7 MAX's sold and a handful of 319NEO's. So far, the CSeries is handily outselling their direct competition.

Most people are quite intelligent enough to be aware of how much BBD has bitten off but they don't see any reason to panic at every slow news day press release.



What the...?
User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13250 posts, RR: 100
Reply 18, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 20083 times:
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Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 17):
There has also been some good news for the CSeries. Both Boeing and Airbus have increased their estimates on how many 100-150 seat planes will be required over the next few decades...which happens to be a market segment they are busy abandoning. Exactly zero -7 MAX's sold and a handful of 319NEO's. So far, the CSeries is handily outselling their direct competition.

IMHO, the C-series will have it tough until it proves itself.

I've been stating a while that the narrow body, over a hundred seat market, is 28,000 planes over 20 years with Bombardier competing for 4,000 of those planes. My total was slightly over the Boeing and Airbus market estimates, but should be in line with actual (they both underestimate as missing targets would be bad form). If Bombardier meets goals *and* launches the CS500, that opens up their market potential *significantly.*

I hope to see more orders ASAP.

You are correct, Boeing and airbus are leaving the smaller space open. The 737-7MAX won't have significantly lower costs per flight than the 738MAX. I've posted before how each upgrade to the 737 line increases the optimal length from 732 to 733 to 738 to 737-?MAX. I put the question market as it could remain the 8 or become the 9. Either way, the -7 falls off the radar.

The same is true of the NEO. I expect the A321 to become the top model with the NEO. (Note, the difference in opinion is due to the 737-8 and 737-9 being closer in size than the A320NEO vs. A321NEO and relative performance.)

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlinebonusonus From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 403 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 20017 times:

Not disclosing the launch customer is a interesting choice for Bombardier. I wonder if this has more to do with Bombardier looking to protect its interests somehow, or if it is about the airline looking to keep its competitive edge by not revealing it's move.

User currently offlinepnwtraveler From Canada, joined Jun 2007, 2248 posts, RR: 12
Reply 20, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 19857 times:

Quoting bonusonus (Reply 19):
Not disclosing the launch customer is a interesting choice for Bombardier. I wonder if this has more to do with Bombardier looking to protect its interests somehow, or if it is about the airline looking to keep its competitive edge by not revealing it's move.

Or the airline has internal reasons not to disclose. Wants to resolve a labour dispute, wants to settle a scope issue, or any other number of hurtles that they want cleared before they publically announce. Go at it the other way. What airlines are in a situation that not announcing an order at this stage will help them out.


User currently offlineplanemaker From Tuvalu, joined Aug 2003, 6240 posts, RR: 34
Reply 21, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 19730 times:

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 17):
The news was not only old

Coming up with a temp work around within the past 12 months is not old... and hiding it is not old.

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 17):
for as long as they need.

That is incorrect. Not only is the work-around more costly but it doesn't have the capacity to meet scheduled production and that is why BBD hopes to give the work back to Shenyang (which constructed a purpose built facility to manufacture the fuselage) ASAP.

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 17):
So by the time it was interesting enough to actually make the news, the problem had long been solved.

That is incorrect. As was reported in every article, BBD tried to hide it and it only leaked out before Farnborough. And, again, the problem has not been solved... let alone "long solved".

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 17):
So far, the CSeries is handily outselling their direct competition.

It isn't "handily" outselling their direct competition. The CS300 has a backlog of 72 (with Republic's 40 aircraft order with no home because the A319 replaced the 40 CS300s that were ordered for Frontier). A & B's A319/73G backlog is close to 500.

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 17):
Most people are quite intelligent

Few people on here understand the difficulties of trying to build an all-new aircraft... with CFRP wings, Al-Li fuse and FBW controls... for the very first time... and at a scale that BBD has never attempted. Given that BBD had never EIS'd any program on time, (and with the delays on the A380, 787 and A350 as examples) it is only logical that there are going to be problems and delays.

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 18):
IMHO, the C-series will have it tough until it proves itself.

There are still close to 500 A319/73Gs on order and Allegiant taking on leased A319s is one indication of the uphill battle that the CSeries faces with ~350 A319s coming off lease over the next couple of years (not to mention 73Gs). Another is the downward trend in oil prices (Avitas presented at ISTAT why oil will be sub-$40/bbl by NEO EIS) which narrows significantly the COC advantage. Then there is the pricing/financing prowess of A & B... for example, AA got their 738's for around $35-million and with 737 production heading to 42/month pumping out a 73G is a marginal cost. And then there is continuing consolidation coupled with the large number of A319/73Gs in service... around 2,400. The picture is not only tough... it is not encouraging.

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 18):
I've been stating a while that the narrow body, over a hundred seat market, is 28,000 planes over 20 years with Bombardier competing for 4,000 of those planes. My total was slightly over the Boeing and Airbus market estimates, but should be in line with actual (they both underestimate as missing targets would be bad form).

Boeing's single aisle number is 23,240 single aisle over 100-seat over 20 years. The problem with the forecast is that it doesn't provide any details.



Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
User currently offlinecolumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7077 posts, RR: 4
Reply 22, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 19701 times:

Quoting planemaker (Reply 21):
There are still close to 500 A319/73Gs on order and Allegiant taking on leased A319s is one indication of the uphill battle that the CSeries faces with ~350 A319s coming off lease over the next couple of years (not to mention 73Gs).

On the other hand there are airlines that have placed large order for the A32xNEO or 737Max but without considering the smallest version the A319NEO or the 737Max. Lufthansa for example will need a CS300 sized plane after they retired the 737. As Nico Buchholz their fleet planer has said the A319 and A319NEO are too heavy for most intra German and shorter European routes.
The CSeries would be an ideal plane for all larger European carriers Air France, Alitalia, British Airways, Iberia, KLM......



It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
User currently offlineplanemaker From Tuvalu, joined Aug 2003, 6240 posts, RR: 34
Reply 23, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 19653 times:

Quoting columba (Reply 22):
On the other hand there are airlines that have placed large order for the A32xNEO or 737Max but without considering the smallest version the A319NEO or the 737Max.

Because they have enough A319 or 73G aircraft in their respective fleets.

Quoting columba (Reply 22):
Lufthansa for example will need a CS300 sized plane after they retired the 737.

LH's 55 737s will be retired by 2016.



Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
User currently offlineJoeCanuck From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 5476 posts, RR: 30
Reply 24, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 19426 times:

Quoting planemaker (Reply 21):

They weren't hiding it. That is complete bull. If they tried to hide it, that would be a securities violation. It was completely above board and public...it just wasn't advertised to the general public.

AS for the production rates, BBD has been saying it will be 3 years until they reach full production so as long as they need is a long time.

So only you are expert enough to analyse the CSeries program and have decided well ahead of time that it is a failure. Nobody seems to have told the customers, or the partners or BBD themselves since they all have committed billions to the program and I am guessing at least a few of them are somewhat familiar with the airline business.

You may not like it but the CSeries will be made, will fly and will be sold. It is real. So I'm not sure who you are cautioning about the program. The money has already been spent and there are no plans on shutting it down.

You have always had a very negative view about the program and the company, and that is absolutely your right, but that really doesn't make you the only person able to make logically analyse the situation and come to conclusions.

I give much more credence to the people who actually are expert in their fields and have actually committed the time, effort and money to the program.

Like I said, no amount of negativity will change the reality that nothing is going to stop the program. Whether or not the program is a long term success is impossible to know but feel free to keep predicting its demise.

I, on the other hand, will wait for facts and reality to decide the fate of the program.



What the...?
25 queb : You see what you want to see. Most analysts see the price of oil between $140 and $200 in 2016. And it will be much more if there is a war in Iran, w
26 Post contains images challengerdan : You seem to have so much knowledge of the Cseries and its supply chain that I am perplexed with this comment. Lead times for fuselage sections, when
27 Post contains images pnwtraveler : If it was discussed here back then, how could it have been hidden. Every airline interested and those just kicking the tires were all aware. Insuranc
28 Post contains images YVRLTN : My guess is GA - those CRJ1000's kinda came out of no where... Because he knows in a few years Embraer are going to get their lunch eaten unless they
29 bonusonus : There were some rumors about Gulf Air as a launch customer back towards the beginning of this year, but when nothing was announced at Bahrain, those s
30 planemaker : First, it is not a securities violation and where was it "public" as you claim? Second. there is not a single BBD qtrly report where they discuss it.
31 saloman : Not to get caught up on details like oil price, but this is actually quite a remarkable statement. You're right to point out the projected increase i
32 Post contains links planemaker : You make a common mistake in vastly overestimating non-OECD impact. To give you an idea, from 2005-2001 China's GDP increased by 86% while China's oi
33 queb : it's underway
34 SSTeve : Yeah, the section to the left with windows doesn't exist, either.
35 Tangowhisky : I agree that world oil production will increase and that given all things being equal (like $US does not collapse), there will be downward pressure o
36 JoeCanuck : Special effects and photoshop and mass hallucinations and swamp gas. Easy to explain.
37 mad99 : Fwd fuse is in join right now. mid and rear have arrived from china aft is built look for a complete fuse by end of next month. Anyone know when the
38 columba : So a roll-out this year seems likely, but first flight is still at least 6 months away ?
39 pnwtraveler : I laughed out loud at Starbucks when I read that and quite a few people looked at me and smiled. Thanks! Well I know some secondary businesses are ge
40 infiniti329 : raft I can assure you LH will be heavily evaluating the ones they ordered for LX. If they like what they see, we will some cseries aircraft sporting
41 mad99 : I'd say we should see a complete ac less motors by year-end.
42 Post contains links and images queb : All main systems now up and running on the ground test aircraft http://www.bombardier.com/en/aerospa...ses/details?docID=0901260d802446e7
43 Post contains links queb : Video : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-2yqKDU2AU&feature=youtu.be
44 Post contains images lightsaber : The rest of us call that an 'iron bird.' Actually, its a bit more than an iron bird. It is a HITL (Hardware in the loop) test with an iron bird and t
45 Post contains links and images lightsaber : My prediction was for the C-series to see 4,000 sales of 28,000 large (100+ seat) narrowbodies. http://www.bizjournals.com/seattle/n...s-rivals-on-its
46 JoeCanuck : That plane doesn't look very aerodynamic...it'll never get off of the ground.
47 Post contains images pnwtraveler : And some people think the A380 isn't pretty, that looks like the Bride of Frankenstein airplane
48 aircellist : Merci, Queb! Somewhat further from the chest...
49 Post contains links queb : Bombardier starts final assembly of CSeries test vehicle Dewar says the static test fuselage is in its final assembly. The next component, the wing, w
50 starrion : So they are getting parts now and think they will still fly this year? That's some weapons grade denial right there.
51 BD500 : For comparison, does anyone know how long it took before the 787 and the A380 flew for the first time after the final assembly line process started?
52 tdscanuck : For the 787 is was over 2 years. However, one single event (the side-of-body discover) is responsible for 6 months of that. I think the A380 was simi
53 Post contains links and images speedygonzales : Here's MSN 001 on a barge in Bordeaux 20.05.2004. FF was 27.04.2005, so about 11 months from FAL start to FF for the A380. View Large View MediumPhot
54 mad99 : So the complete fuse is now joined with final drilling going on in the fatigue tool. The wings should arrive from Belfast in about a month (discussion
55 JoeCanuck : Thanks for the update. Keep them coming.
56 Post contains links and images queb : The first fuselage (static frame) is completed : http://www.bombardier.com/wps/portal...edia-centre?docID=0901260d8024eb1e
57 JoeCanuck : Groovy...is there any news on the status of the first flight test airframe?
58 Post contains links queb : http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...-of-first-cseries-fuselage-376523/ http://www.aviationweek.com/Blogs.as...858c5a-9fd9-4ace-b09a-b7c0c2ca416b
59 Post contains links JoeCanuck : Excellent...hadn't gotten around to checking the dailies yet. I'm adding a ling from this thread which has a video describing the assembly process; C
60 yyztpa : I find the AWST article to read negative. The article doesn't raise anything new but instead appears to 'rain on the parade'. Do you think the article
61 JoeCanuck : It doesn't hurt to be reminded that despite current progress, they are working on their most ambitious program yet and they haven't always hit home r
62 lightsaber : I want to talk first flight. Normally, that happens 12 to 20 months after the lab starts testing. I'm not talking "Aircraft 0," that comes in later in
63 Post contains images aircellist : Be my guest
64 Post contains links planemaker : In addition to the the two programs mentioned in the article: Those with shorter memories will remember that from first flight to service entry for t
65 mad99 : The wings have shipped from Belfast. The first full join will start at the end of this week.
66 Post contains links aircellist : http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...ftv-1-to-arrive-in-october-376749/ Assembly of the static-test airframe should be complete in october. Wings fo
67 Polot : Is BBD always going to charter an AN-124 to get the wings from Belfast to Canada, or will they eventually arrive by ship? That has to be expensive, es
68 Post contains images queb : BBD uses the AN-124 only when it is urgent , normally it will be by ship.
69 Post contains images PlymSpotter : Sure it will be expensive, but probably still less than shipping. A bespoke consignment like this can't just be slipped into a shipping container and
70 Post contains images YVRLTN : Doubt it. Not sure of the specs but Im guessing it doesnt "need" that great domed crate. The other picture shows a regular flat deck truck. There are
71 JoeCanuck : The Port of Montreal is open year round, (with the help of icebreakers), so wings and such could possibly be delivered right to the BBD doorstep. Boei
72 r2rho : Great to see some progress on the CSeries that shows it is no longer a "paper plane" but something you can "touch and see". There likely remains a lot
73 Post contains images PlymSpotter : Does this go by air or sea? Clearly it's beyond the scope of containerised shipping if the latter. Dan
74 Post contains images Someone83 : Goes easily on a ro-ro ship
75 Post contains images PlymSpotter : Perhaps availability and cost of that option has come down since a few years ago when I looked with a friend. He got his RV over to the UK easily for
76 mad99 : CAST left wing joined but not drilled, should be drilled tomorrow (today is a holiday in Montreal) and right joined and drilled by Friday. First flyin
77 Post contains links and images queb : http://www.bombardier.com/wps/portal...edia-centre?docID=0901260d8025df91 CAST (static frame) with wings FTV1 (MSN 50001) fuselage
78 Post contains links queb : CSeries FTV1 assembly update video with Robert Dewar (program manager) http://youtu.be/zko7MFEJU2o Note that the picture of MSN 50001 in the previous
79 Post contains links JoeCanuck : Newest progress video from BBD; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zko7MFEJU2o
80 Post contains images lightsaber : Thank you for the link. I enjoyed seeing the progress. Errr.. you both linked the same video. They are starting to look like real aircraft! Lightsabe
81 ANM604 : Amen! Looks like BBD is starting to gain some momentum in the project!
82 mad99 : In the vids they show the rear section having the bulkhead attached, this is done and the rear is attached to the fuse. The aft will be joined later t
83 JoeCanuck : You beat me with the video link. I'll have the mods remove mine.
84 Post contains links and images queb : CSeries rhs wing
85 JoeCanuck : Has BBD done the ultimate load test on the CSeries wing?
86 Post contains links lightsaber : On a demonstrator wing: http://farnborough.aero.bombardier.com/en/20100719b_news.jsp However, that wasn't a complete wing. So I believe the static ri
87 Post contains links JoeCanuck : Here's a podcast from Airinsight with Rob Dewar of BBD concerning flight test vehicle 1, the production timeline, CIASTA, the wood mockup and expectat
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