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Aer Lingus Ending IAD-MAD; Questions  
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7431 posts, RR: 17
Posted (2 years 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 7344 times:

So a curiosity search of Dulles International turned up that the EI flight from IAD to MAD is ending on Oct. 30.

I may have missed something (OAG thread, Irish thread) but I have a few questions:

Why was this route around? It's no where near Ireland. Was there some sort of codeshare connected to it?

Why is it therefore going away? Some things come to mind: 1) economy of Ireland 2) slumping EI and 3) the route itself


Thanks, and my apologies if this was covered before


次は、渋谷、渋谷。出口は、右側です。電車とホームの間は広く開いておりますので、足元に注意下さい。
21 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineASFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2005, 1170 posts, RR: 3
Reply 1, posted (2 years 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 7301 times:

It was operated on behalf of UA. There was quite a bit of controversy surrounding it when it started. Many thought it was UA's beginning of an attempt to break their unions. The crews on this flight were US based and US citizens that were hired specifically for this one flight.

User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7431 posts, RR: 17
Reply 2, posted (2 years 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 7287 times:

Quoting ASFlyer (Reply 1):
It was operated on behalf of UA. There was quite a bit of controversy surrounding it when it started. Many thought it was UA's beginning of an attempt to break their unions. The crews on this flight were US based and US citizens that were hired specifically for this one flight.

is EI in *A ?



次は、渋谷、渋谷。出口は、右側です。電車とホームの間は広く開いておりますので、足元に注意下さい。
User currently offlineEI912 From Ireland, joined May 2012, 20 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (2 years 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 7264 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Thread starter):
Why is it therefore going away? Some things come to mind: 1) economy of Ireland 2) slumping EI and 3) the route itself

1) More so the economy of Spain, as the route itself has nothing to do with the Irish market.

2) I would hardly call EI 'slumping' at the moment, they might not be going through huge growth at the moment, but they are performing very well both short and long haul considering the current situations in Ireland and the EU.

3) The route was started before the UA/CO merger when UA's own long haul aircraft were considered a bit premium heavy, and EI could operate the route cheaper than UA could. EI managed all operations of the route (aircraft, crew etc.) while UA promoted and sold the route via the UA network. The route caused huge tension among the ranks of UA crew and pilots as it was considered outsourcing, which it was. UA now also have access to CO's aircraft, which are configured more suitably to the market. One question though, does UA plan to continue the route on their own?

Nevertheless, it was a successful project for EI as the route performed pretty well and it allowed them to stabilise the 330 fleet while restructuring the long haul strategy in the past years.
There is endless discussion about this topic in the forums, more detailed info can be found there.


User currently offlinehiflyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 2172 posts, RR: 3
Reply 4, posted (2 years 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 7122 times:

Think about it...the EI IADMAD was a large thorn in the side of ALPA at United who considered it their work contracted out. ALPA was taking it public and up to Congress. However...after two years of complaining and no still new contract the route was canceled the first part of the week and ALPA had a tentative agreement two days later. Coincidence? If you still believe in the tooth fairy...yes.

User currently offlinebhmdiversion From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 459 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (2 years 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 6490 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 2):

is EI in *A ?

Aer Lingus is a member of OneWorld


User currently offlineaerdingus From Ireland, joined Dec 2006, 2826 posts, RR: 15
Reply 6, posted (2 years 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 6441 times:

Quoting bhmdiversion (Reply 5):
Aer Lingus is a member of OneWorld

Nope EI left a good few years ago, as restructuring began to reinvent itself as an LCC.



Cabin crew blog http://dolefuldolegirl.blogspot.ie/
User currently offlinerutankrd From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 2985 posts, RR: 7
Reply 7, posted (2 years 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 6382 times:
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Aer Lingus is nonaligned.

Codeshares with KLM (Skyteam) to Amsterdam, BA to Heathrow (One world) and UA (*A) to Heathrow and for a few weeks more (MAD-IAD) and interlines with many more !


User currently offlineA318 From Bahamas, joined Jan 2008, 325 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (2 years 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 6231 times:

I'm still trying to figure out what's going to happen to the US based cabin crews. Are they being laid off? I posted this question in the thread that first mentioned the ending of this route but no one knew the answer.


Welcome aboard!
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16859 posts, RR: 51
Reply 9, posted (2 years 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 6178 times:

Quoting EI912 (Reply 3):
One question though, does UA plan to continue the route on their own?

I think UA will, at some point, launch IAD-MAD on their own. The 757 would be perfect for the route, IAD-MAD is shorter than EWR-BCN.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineEagleBoy From Niue, joined Dec 2009, 1819 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (2 years 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 5977 times:
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Quoting hiflyer (Reply 4):
Think about it...the EI IADMAD was a large thorn in the side of ALPA at United who considered it their work contracted out................However...after two years of complaining and no still new contract the route was canceled the first part of the week and ALPA had a tentative agreement two days later. Coincidence?

I would guess it was a factor but not a decisive factor. it seems that the 'New' United were not as happy with the UA/EI joint venture than the pre merger UA.

Quoting A318 (Reply 8):
I'm still trying to figure out what's going to happen to the US based cabin crews. Are they being laid off?

I would guess they will be laid off. Anecdotally there was a large turnover of staff. In addition these staff were US citizens and would not have been able to work in the EU.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 9):
I think UA will, at some point, launch IAD-MAD on their own. The 757 would be perfect for the route,

This makes sense.The original choice of EI as a partner seems to based on the economics of the EI A330 (which is Y heavy) over the more C/J configured UA aircraft.


User currently offlinebestwestern From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2000, 7122 posts, RR: 57
Reply 11, posted (2 years 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 5929 times:

Quoting EagleBoy (Reply 10):
it seems that the 'New' United were not as happy with the UA/EI joint venture than the pre merger UA.

It's all down to the Spanish economy. Since IB pulled the route, there is nobody operating it this winter.

Quoting EagleBoy (Reply 10):
This makes sense.The original choice of EI as a partner seems to based on the economics of the EI A330 (which is Y heavy) over the more C/J configured UA aircraft.

UA had no suitable fleet pre merger. Not sure if this route will return with a 757 next summer.



The world is really getting smaller these days
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7431 posts, RR: 17
Reply 12, posted (2 years 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 5806 times:

Quoting bestwestern (Reply 11):
It's all down to the Spanish economy. Since IB pulled the route, there is nobody operating it this winter.

Does this route run with profitability, though?



次は、渋谷、渋谷。出口は、右側です。電車とホームの間は広く開いておりますので、足元に注意下さい。
User currently offlineflylku From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 806 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (2 years 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 4291 times:

Quoting STT757 (Reply 9):
I think UA will, at some point, launch IAD-MAD on their own. The 757 would be perfect for the route, IAD-MAD is shorter than EWR-BCN.

What about one of the domestic 767-300s or an ex CO 767-400s. One post suggested that UA wide bodies where a bit too premium heavy for this route. Would the two aircraft I mentioned above be more in line with the EI A330 that was on the route (in terms of premium to economy ratio)?



...are we there yet?
User currently offlinemaxamuus From United States of America, joined Feb 2011, 96 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (2 years 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 4231 times:

Quoting bestwestern (Reply 11):
It's all down to the Spanish economy. Since IB pulled the route, there is nobody operating it this winter.

I venture to say it was killed 100% at the hands of ALPA.


User currently offlineSKY1 From Spain, joined Apr 2006, 879 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (2 years 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 4032 times:

On Nov. 2010 the former Continental's station manager at MAD told me the joint-venture with EI to IAD was about to get its end. On that time it was being scheduled to be the last flight MAD-IAD on March 31, 2011 but if wasn't because according some rumor EI could take CO to the court claiming breach of contract. I have no idea what happened and nor about that rumor is or isn't true but I'm sure CO wanted finished their EI cooperation as early as 2010 ...so this is not a taken-yesterday decision at all.

About UA having a plan to continue the route on their own, the answer seems to be "no". Their plans is even cutting their Madrid services out of Newark to 4xW services for the next winter except during Xmas.



Time flies! Enjoy life!
User currently offlinekiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8552 posts, RR: 13
Reply 16, posted (2 years 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 3918 times:
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Between the merger, the state of the Spanish economy, and the disappearance of Spanair which was the *A partner in Spain it is not too surprising that UA no longer sees this service as useful. It makes a nice easy concession to ALPA to give up something which no longer served it's purpose.


Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlineAmricanShamrok From Ireland, joined May 2008, 2890 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (2 years 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 3790 times:

Quoting rutankrd (Reply 7):
Codeshares with KLM (Skyteam) to Amsterdam, BA to Heathrow (One world) and UA (*A) to Heathrow and for a few weeks more (MAD-IAD) and interlines with many more !

UA also codeshare on all of EI's US routes.



Shannon-Chicago
User currently offlineSKY1 From Spain, joined Apr 2006, 879 posts, RR: 4
Reply 18, posted (2 years 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 3736 times:

The Spanair demise has had nothing to do about it. CO/UA gets few connections through Barajas airport and most are for domestic destinations in Spain across IB or UX

The UA biggest obstacle for the Spanish market is the current economy, the highly sensitive USA-Spain market between high and low season and a big, comprehensive competition specially on the NYC-MAD route.



Time flies! Enjoy life!
User currently offlineGALLEYSTEW From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 159 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (2 years 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 2866 times:

I feel sorry for the people hired as cabin crew to fly this route. They were promised the world with new routes to come/expansion. Anyone in this business, however, knows "promises," aren't genuine and aren't lived up to. If you are to survive this industry, you have to expect change and lots of it. As someone stated earlier, there has been a lot of turn over. One route, same trip, bad layover location in Madrid. No real future. Those that were hired for this "TEST," have been considered back stabers/SCABS by both Aer Lingus and UA employess. I don't think so, and in this economy, jobs were hard to come by. I wish them all luck with future endevours in these turmultuous times.


All Posts are my opinions only.
User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 26938 posts, RR: 58
Reply 20, posted (2 years 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 2850 times:

Quoting GALLEYSTEW (Reply 19):
I feel sorry for the people hired as cabin crew to fly this route. They were promised the world with new routes to come/expansion. Anyone in this business, however, knows "promises," aren't genuine and aren't lived up to.

Indeed I wish them all well in getting new jobs and I guess it wont look bad on the CV anyway having EI on it .


User currently offlineASFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2005, 1170 posts, RR: 3
Reply 21, posted (2 years 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 2706 times:

Quoting GALLEYSTEW (Reply 19):
Those that were hired for this "TEST," have been considered back stabers/SCABS by both Aer Lingus and UA employess. I don't think so, and in this economy, jobs were hard to come by

Nearly every U.S. airline, except AA, has been hiring since the inception of this ridiculous idea. These people could have applied with UA, CO, DL, AS, WN, B6, FL, VX, US, not to mention all of the regionals that are constantly hiring. All of these airlines have hired FA's in the last several years since EI/UA started this operation. These people made the CHOICE to work for EI to cover these flights. While the economy hasn't been great, Flight Attendant jobs have been readily available for those that were interested. I don't feel bad for them at all. Most of them were well aware of the controversy surrounding this operation when they agreed to take these jobs.


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