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Continental (Now UAL) From First To Worst?  
User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 11
Posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 21884 times:

One of my hobbies is following DOT reports. Looking at June's report, things were quite scary. Namely the complaints section. If i'm reading this right, of the 5,000+ consumer complaints filed against US airlines since January (through June which is the report's run date), UA had close to 2,000; or about 1/3. I'm guessing a lot of it has to do with the merger but looking at the big picture, it seems like they've went to the dogs in almost every category!

I just hope that they can get a handle of their operation SOON.

http://airconsumer.ost.dot.gov/reports/2012/August/2012AugATCR.pdf

[Edited 2012-08-10 23:09:22]


What gets measured gets done.
252 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineVC10er From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 2866 posts, RR: 10
Reply 1, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 21620 times:
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I read the same report. It confirmed 33% of complaints. I personally think 75% of the complaints come from the "switchovergate" which will take a while for the flying public to forget. I have 3 friends at United who have said that as bad as it was for passengers, it was worse for United (both CO and UA) people who had to use the new system. Especially those on the front lines. Every day after work they went home crying. I don't know what "quick res" is, but it was a PMUA thing that they lost in the merger.

I have been on UA a lot in the past 6 months, in fact today when I fly I will hit my 1K, and if you are in E+, business or first on an sCO or SUA aircraft - and they have the new seats, renovated interiors, new IFE and the improved food etc..there isn't much to complain about until you get a rotten FA. And that is rare, but it does happen.

I'm sure people will add real nightmares besides the switchover. Smisek apologized for the computer problems, but with all the loyal pax they lost I bet the board of directors beat the hell out of him.

At least the new Global First amenity kit is rather awesome  



The world is missing love, let's use our flights to spread it!
User currently offlinequiet1 From Thailand, joined Apr 2010, 352 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 21337 times:

I heard that Friday UA cancelled 20% of its ORD flights after 500pm due to some software problems with baggage handling. That's not a Good Thing, and probably will contribute to yet more complaints.

User currently offlineloggat From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 666 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 21128 times:

That's what bean counters running airlines will do for you. Have you noticed how UA goes out of their way to tell you they are giving you a great customer experience, yet DL doesn't say it. Which one really has the better experience? The product should be speaking for itself.


There are 3 types of people in this world, those that can count, and those that can't.
User currently offlinepar13del From Bahamas, joined Dec 2005, 7075 posts, RR: 8
Reply 4, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 21055 times:

Quoting VC10er (Reply 1):
I bet the board of directors beat the hell out of him.

To be snippy, this means what, they should have been more involved in the ground work as well as the initial go ahead.
Mergers are not done so frequently, everyone needs to step up, including the monitors of the monitors.

Directors, shareholders and some senior executives see mergers as just financial paperwork, combines both revenue streams the larger numbers give economies of scale, greater leverage, etc etc etc.
Not much attention to details is paid to the lower level managers and personnel who actually have to integrate the operations, rather than beating him up they should have ensured that additional resources were put in place to assist the lower level folks.

One thing missed is that companies have been downsizing staff for years, persons today are doing the job that 2 or 3 persons did years ago, now a massive merger activity is bought onboard and additional resouces are needed, the mantra
that one has to spend money to make money is true in mergers as well.

Software testing for something as extensive as a combined reservations network from the outside looking in seemed to have fallen down somewhere.


User currently offlinestrfyr51 From United States of America, joined Apr 2012, 1098 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 20933 times:
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Quoting par13del (Reply 4):

The BOD gettig beat up?? Not a chance!! What Will happen is they'll analyze the heck out of it and come up with some management solution to an opeational problem That Bag system has been running good around the clock for Yrars Everything fails eventually and computers rarely give any warning before they fail.


User currently offlineUnited_fan From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 7456 posts, RR: 7
Reply 6, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 20890 times:

I flew them for the first time in 6 years in April.I was not impressed to say the least. I dont think I'll be coming back if it weren't for my $200 voucher for an earlier flight that was ,(surprise), delayed.


'Empathy was yesterday...Today, you're wasting my Mother-F'ing time' - Heat.
User currently offlinepar13del From Bahamas, joined Dec 2005, 7075 posts, RR: 8
Reply 7, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 20854 times:

Quoting strfyr51 (Reply 5):
The BOD gettig beat up??

Nah, they will do as you said, I totally agree.
I just meant that the damage has already been done and the cause of the damage is evident, the cover up must commence.
By the time another such merger is done, new folks will be involved and they will be sure that the mistake made by those ahead will never be repeated, famous last words.


User currently offlineiad2cdg From United States of America, joined May 2007, 7 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 19507 times:

I was on a United flight from ORD to IAH last night that was delayed for over two hours in part due to the baggage issue. We were scheduled to depart at 8:28 and the departure was pushed back to 9:25 because the aircraft arrived late. We started boarding around 9:10. At about 9:40, the main door was closed. And then we sat. It was probably 30 minutes before an announcement was made, which consisted of the lead FA saying that he didn't know why we weren't leaving and they couldn't find a gate agent to talk to. The baggage issue was eventually explained and we left at 10:45 after sitting for over an hour (much of which was spent watching commercials for the Lincoln MKZ after the free DirectTV preview ran out shortly after they closed the main cabin door - I'm pretty sure I hate that car now).

The gate agents at ORD were pretty hostile, to the point of being borderline abusive towards the passengers. In fact, once on board, the lead FA made an announcement to say that many people had asked for comment cards to complain about the gate agents, but that they were no longer available and that we could go on-line to provide "feedback."

Once I got to IAH, and after waiting close to two hours for my checked bag to be found, I walked by a baggage handler on my way out of the terminal who told me after we made eye contact that "we told 'em that this merger wouldn't work for sh*t."

I've only lived in Houston for about a month at this point, but whenever I talk to people about traveling, they typically launch into a tirade about United, with many stating that they now look at other carriers when they need to fly, regardless of their status on United. It's too bad, given that many people seemed to really enjoy Continental. And having moved here from a Northwest city that became Delta, the contrast in merger execution is quite striking.

IAD2CDG



Let's stop praying for someone to save us and start saving ourselves. - KMFDM
User currently offlinerising From United States of America, joined May 2010, 269 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 19376 times:

No one believes that this merger process has been handled perfectly by United. Mistakes were made. I personally have been frustrated over the past few months with delays and cancellations to my own travel plans.

But no one today is talking about US Airways' computer disaster several years ago. Several years from now the same will apply to United. As United has said publicly, the main reason for United's issues today was the mistake of adopting the Continental Airlines best practice of having preventative service lines, where you produce time in the schedule where aircraft will go on a preplanned basis and complete work, to the United fleet and paying for it by bringing down spare aircraft. The goal was actually to raise United's completion factor the very high, admirable number Continental always had. But they couldn't make it work, yet. So they are bringing spares back up to the 15 frames they traditionally had kept on the United side until they can adopt the practice fleet wide. As Scott Kirby famously said, running a bad operation costs money, and one can bet they will address the issue.

No doubt, many of United's issues today are self-made, but the thing to think about with this data linked at the start of the thread, is that it's not apples to apples. Different airlines operate different airplanes at different hub airports with different weather. Also not all flights are considered. The data is only at "reportable airports."

Like clockwork, every few months we see a media story about the great on-time performance of Hawaiian Airlines, and company with 43 frames and 22 destinations. With the great Hawaiian weather and small fleet, the real news story would be if they were not number 1.

And just a comment on the "elite flyers leaving in droves"- an opinion based on speculation, with no data to back up the claim- it's getting tired. Someone heard someone, or someone read a comment somewhere and now all of a sudden "everyone" is leaving. And, even if it were true, if someone is driven away from your brand by one or a few bad experiences , that says more about them, than the airline.



If it doesn't make sense, it's because it's not true.
User currently offlinebestwestern From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2000, 7089 posts, RR: 57
Reply 10, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 19206 times:

Quoting rising (Reply 9):
if someone is driven away from your brand by one or a few bad experiences , that says more about them, than the airline.

Oh, the arrogance to blame the customer.



The world is really getting smaller these days
User currently offlinerising From United States of America, joined May 2010, 269 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 19144 times:

Quoting bestwestern (Reply 10):



Not blaming the customer. People have every right to be upset. I know I was last week when my flight was canceled. But one cancellation does not ruin a decade of mostly great trips.

It's like if you get fired from a job. It would be a traumatic experience filled with anger. But on your death bed, you would probably think of that as a minor setback on an otherwise successful life. The same with this. They merged. They dropped the ball on some things. You don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.



If it doesn't make sense, it's because it's not true.
User currently offlinekgaiflyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 4241 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 19094 times:
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Quoting VC10er (Reply 1):
I have 3 friends at United who have said that as bad as it was for passengers, it was worse for United (both CO and UA) people who had to use the new system. Especially those on the front lines. Every day after work they went home crying.

I still have employees giving me their business cards and asking me to report to the company about the good they're doing. So I suspect everyone's pulling out of the morass.


User currently offlinebestwestern From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2000, 7089 posts, RR: 57
Reply 13, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 18922 times:

Rising, your comments in post 9 are all about blaming others. Blaming the weather, blaming different hubs, blaming reportable airports, blaming fickle passengers, blaming the fact that UA is big, etc ad nausium. Again, perhaps the Blame is on United, rather than everything else.

Quoting rising (Reply 11):
But one cancellation does not ruin a decade of mostly great trips.

That one cancellation may be the tipping point in an already tarnished experience of delays, hostile staff and other cancellations.

Quoting kgaiflyer (Reply 12):
I still have employees giving me their business cards and asking me to report to the company about the good they're doing.

That to me sounds like nobody internally notices the hard work that some are doing, so the staff have to plead with passengers to say thanks.

Quoting rising (Reply 9):
and company with 43 frames and 22 destinations.

A smaller airline is more affected if an aircraft goes tech, as a higher % proportion of their fleet is AOG. With united, they have more services to cover AOGs with.



The world is really getting smaller these days
User currently offlinetraindoc From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 348 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 18739 times:

The new UA is certainly not the old CO that I flew and enjoyed. But little by little the new UA is getting its act together. My last trip was SAT-IAH-DCA-ORD-OMA-IAH-SAT over 6 days. Six flights in all involving" old" CO mainline, "old" UA mainline and UA express. Only one late flight, the last leg, (and only 15 minutes) waiting for late connecting pax.

If I go to DL, I start all over as a minnow in a big pond, even though I have 800,000 Sky miles. If I go to AA, I get the management hating crews and most likely a US/AA merger. (If US has yet to integrate their pilot groups, can we expect labor peace at the new AA?)

So I stick with UA as a 1K. (At least a bigger minnow.) Better the devil I know, than the devil I don't.


User currently offlinemayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10351 posts, RR: 14
Reply 15, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 18550 times:

Quoting bestwestern (Reply 13):
Quoting rising (Reply 9):
and company with 43 frames and 22 destinations.

A smaller airline is more affected if an aircraft goes tech, as a higher % proportion of their fleet is AOG. With united, they have more services to cover AOGs with.

But, it's also much easier for a smaller airline to maintain a better on-time record, which makes the media reports an apples to oranges comparison and not very valid.

Quoting iad2cdg (Reply 8):
I've only lived in Houston for about a month at this point, but whenever I talk to people about traveling, they typically launch into a tirade about United, with many stating that they now look at other carriers when they need to fly, regardless of their status on United. It's too bad, given that many people seemed to really enjoy Continental.

IIRC, I thought that much of the current UA management was ex-CO, moved from Houston to Chicago?



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently onlinePITingres From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 1124 posts, RR: 13
Reply 16, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 18370 times:

Quoting rising (Reply 9):
But no one today is talking about US Airways' computer disaster several years ago. Several years from now the same will apply to United.

I don't talk about the US computer meltdown, but I don't fly US if I can help it, either. Any UA manager who thinks that it will all just go away naturally needs to be fired. I sure hope that UA is moving in the right direction, but it's not going to happen by managers (or staff) believing their own PR about how everything is just fine.



Fly, you fools! Fly!
User currently offlineSSTeve From United States of America, joined Dec 2011, 695 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 18342 times:

Quoting traindoc (Reply 14):
Only one late flight, the last leg, (and only 15 minutes) waiting for late connecting pax.

They don't seem to know how to do this at Dulles. I was in row 3 of a mysteriously delayed 739, and I got to the A gates to find my flight had just left. So I then, of course, got to watch everyone else in my plane arrive in a sweat to be told the same thing for a few other flights in the same bank. It was infuriating. And that said-- do they teach gate agents to at least say, "I'm sorry?" Because there was none of that... there was more a feeling that screwing people over in this way was routine. Really? Eye rolls for the people who got on the mobile lounge when their flight said "boarding?" Yeah, it's *so* ridiculous for them to be a bit exasperated to find that you were merrily closing out flights for the last bank of the day.

So I got in a day late, and then found they'd lost one bag, while the other had made the connection the night before. I mention this all not because I want sympathy, or because I think this is an atypically horrible experience, but because I tend to wonder whether other operational things are suffering, still, perhaps because the IT stuff has been so screwy, some employees/contractors seem disinclined to do anything more than the minimum required of them? On the way back, I listened to two gate agents argue over whether it was worth it to add a 50th passenger to a flight. I felt like taking the side of the guy arguing for the passenger! Maybe United ought to as well.


User currently offlineBeardown91737 From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 510 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 17656 times:

Quoting par13del (Reply 4):
Software testing for something as extensive as a combined reservations network from the outside looking in seemed to have fallen down somewhere.

This is why someone should get beat up. It may be Smisek being beat up, or it may be Smisek identifying the "yes men" who said they were ready for the cutover and beating them up.

After seeing the bad IT integration at US it should have been a priority to make this go well. Whether long term fliers stay or go, the immediate impact is the cost on the day of the failures. That is why UA would have done better with making the integration smooth than rushing a date for the cutover so that they could start saving on the integrated operations.

Quoting iad2cdg (Reply 8):
I've only lived in Houston for about a month at this point, but whenever I talk to people about traveling, they typically launch into a tirade about United, with many stating that they now look at other carriers when they need to fly

As much as people say this, United has the bulk of the non-stops out of IAH. Customers may look elsewhere for routes that already were going to require them to connect, (IAH-DFW-GRR on AA vs. IAH-ORD-GRR on UA for example), but likely are not going to be so mad as to condemn themselves to making a stop on the way for every trip that isn't to one of the other carrier's hubs.

From a distance, you would get the sense that Houston has a pre-disposal toward anger at the name United and towards losing the HQ that had been taken from Los Angeles 30 years ago on CO's first trip from first to worst.

Not that I agree this is a first to worst journey. After Lorenzo took over, CO really wasn't flying where I was going, so my only CO experience after 1980 was after the merger and the main thing I noticed was the FAs walking through the terminals ranting about the merger.



135 hrs PIC (mostly PA-28) - not current. Landings at MDW, PIA, JAN.
User currently offlineAlnicocunife From United States of America, joined Mar 2011, 159 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 17242 times:

Continental (Now UAL) From First To Worst? Just wait until AA and USAir merge. United will look like you are in a private jet with 100+ of your best friends! And nobody will remember a few bad UA experiences.

User currently offlinecalpilot From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 998 posts, RR: 14
Reply 20, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 17192 times:

Quoting VC10er (Reply 1):
I'm sure people will add real nightmares besides the switchover. Smisek apologized for the computer problems, but with all the loyal pax they lost I bet the board of directors beat the hell out of him.

Yeah... They gave him a beating; a $14 Million one. "Ugh"!


User currently offlineAirCalSNA From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 329 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 17062 times:

Having sworn off UA years ago, despite my home airport being SFO, and in light of the ongoing customer-service problems post-merger, I am coming to the conclusion that UA employees are borderline sabotaging their employer. Get your acts together people!

User currently offlineABQopsHP From United States of America, joined May 2006, 848 posts, RR: 3
Reply 22, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 16944 times:

Quoting mayor (Reply 15):
IIRC, I thought that much of the current UA management was ex-CO, moved from Houston to Chicago?

Exactly! Take that into consideration when coming to the conclusion about who ruined CO.

JD CRP Exjet



A line is evidence that other people exist.
User currently offlinepicarus From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 299 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 16757 times:

The DOT report contains a complaint from me, and I assure you, United earned it--repeatedly.

Picarus


User currently offlinekgaiflyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 4241 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 16227 times:
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Quoting SSTeve (Reply 17):
They don't seem to know how to do this at Dulles. I was in row 3 of a mysteriously delayed 739, and I got to the A gates to find my flight had just left. So I then, of course, got to watch everyone else in my plane arrive in a sweat to be told the same thing for a few other flights in the same bank. It was infuriating. And that said-- do they teach gate agents to at least say, "I'm sorry?" Because there was none of that... there was more a feeling that screwing people over in this way was routine.

Over at the ground-level A gates, most of the gate agents speak multiple languages -- except clear English. Always speak to them slowly since they actually may not understand what you are saying. The Customer Service people in ground-level A are slow and exasperating -- and ( at least those that actually understand English ) seem proud of it.


25 ABQopsHP : If believe the IAD agents are outsourced to Air Wisconsin. So if its a Vendor then they are less likely to go above and beyond. Just my 2 cents. JD
26 questions : This is consistent with the customer service philosophy that the customer is the enemy. Until management and labor work *together* to change this phi
27 kgaiflyer : And yet, the Air Wisconsin people operating ELP are so nice. They remember and greet me by name even though I'm only there every other month.
28 mm320cap : Seeing as how you have sworn off United, how would you have a clue? You are wrong, by the way. TERRIBLE management decisions have derailed the operat
29 flightopsguy : Bingo. The front line employees are holding the ship together as best they can. We've been flying UAL since the 1960's and this is even worse than th
30 SSTeve : IAD A gates were indeed Air Wisconsin-- it was bad enough that I looked at their badges. However, it's not like they're all forthright jerks-- they s
31 SSTeve : I tend to think that perhaps because the employees/contractors have been fighting a running battle with software or other operational changes all sum
32 C767P : Good luck finding any United agent willing to go above and beyond. Good luck finding one that isn’t rude and mean to you!
33 blueflyer : It is my experience that some of these rotten F/As are high-seniority employees and choose the same route regularly, a route I used to ply frequently
34 dstc47 : My recent experiences have led me to wonder. Flight cancelled, rebooked for next day but not informed, mostly very disinterested agents, some downrigh
35 FlyASAGuy2005 : Just of note, I would have though the likes of JFK and EWR would have the worst on-time rates but it was actually Dulles.
36 BC77008 : You were already delayed so a cup of coffee should be ok. I mean c'mon it's your captain! Dulles airport is notorious in our system for fuckery and s
37 BC77008 : Double post Double post[Edited 2012-08-12 07:37:47]
38 RyanairGuru : Having watched this merger closely from a difference, I was interested to catch my first post-merger United (albeit ExpressJet) flight yesterday. I've
39 Post contains links iowaman : I think it's a bit drastic to say it's from first to worst, but tracking consumer complaints seems to be a good way to track customer satisfaction. So
40 N353SK : The A Terminal Continental Express flights are handled by DGS. Every other Continental (and Express) flight out of BCDE is handled by a Continental e
41 ual777 : IAD A gates are handled by Air Wisconsin while A gates in IAH are handled by DGS. BTW, Continental doesn't exist anymore. IAD's A gates are FAR worse
42 kgaiflyer : Repeated post. Repeated post. Repeated post.[Edited 2012-08-12 12:38:07]
43 kgaiflyer : I'm talking about IAD. You're talking about IAH. See the problem?
44 LOWS : Are they running jets out of A now? I thought that was just the props (former 9L Q400s/ Continental Connection)
45 kgaiflyer : UAX RJs have always run out of *ground-level" A . Mainline sCO jets fly out of *jetbridge" A . We're talking about two different locations.
46 LOWS : I was talking about IAH, not IAD.
47 kgaiflyer : Ah, so. While AA, AC, AS, DL, F9, NK, and US jets depart from IAH / A -- only sCO turboprops depart from IAH / A .
48 ual777 : Not anymore. Expressjet's 145's and 135s depart off of the former Q400 gates in IAH.
49 Cubsrule : No, there are some jet flights from A. I recently departed from A7 on an XE flight IAH-BNA. The south side of A seems to be all prop, and A1/2/3 seem
50 FlyASAGuy2005 : I agree with the rest of your post but this..I don't think it's drastic. It's just the truth IMO. I wasn't only talking about customer complains. Jus
51 Post contains images kgaiflyer : Probably because of the B terminal construction. Actually, if this results in Gate 84's long, long, quonset hut being knocked down. I'm all for it.
52 tommy767 : Want to blame anybody for these stats start with the top: Smisek and the rest of the Continental regime. Seriously, 66% ontime at LAX is an embarrassm
53 Post contains links MaverickM11 : http://investing.businessweek.com/re...asp?personId=8048822&ticker=UAL:US Mr. Peter D. McDonald, Pete has been Executive Vice President and Chief
54 tommy767 : Ahem, I think you mean Smisek?
55 B737900ER : COO=Pete McDonald How does the UA numbers on time/completion/complaints compare to delta when they were at this point in their merger?
56 Post contains links FlyASAGuy2005 : http://airconsumer.ost.dot.gov/reports/2010/August/2010AUGUSTATCR.PDF DL's worst year was the 2010 "Summer From Hell" like all of the employees called
57 FriendlySkies : Pete McDonald has been a higher up at UA for years, when they were posting the best on-time performance, low lost bag numbers, etc. Honestly I feel k
58 tommy767 : It's frightening how some people are niave to believe that CO is running the show up in ORD. Face it, IAH got the short hand of the stick. It isn't Un
59 CHRISBA777ER : I flew LHR-EWR ~ ORD-LHR a few weeks ago on routes with "ex-CO" crews and "ex-UA" crew. Got to say, very impressed. Everything very quick and easy, pr
60 strfyr51 : Are you kidding me?? We changed to ALL od CO's MAINTENENCE and Flight PROCEEDURES, And we're struggling to fit those preceedures to what We're trying
61 onebadlt123 : From my experience, this merger has been a complete disaster and shows everything on how to do a merger wrong. Working in the "New NOC" we have our ow
62 PHLBOS : If you're referring to the US computer meltdown that took place in Dec. 2004; that was months before the 2005 merger w/HP and, hence, not the result o
63 blueflyer : I find it totally amazing that so far into the merger process, there is still this us-vs-them mentality, not just with employees, but customers as wel
64 drerx7 : Amen...
65 mogandoCI : My flight on UA just this sunday was supposed to be delayed 3 hours due to late arrival of crew, but the online check-in process seamless showed me at
66 strfyr51 : Remember , I said this is an EVOLUTION, We haven't gotten over Us and Them because Us wants what they HAD and Them Want it their WAY and the Two do NO
67 flyhossd : Cart before the horse? Or would it have been smarter to first bring the UA aircraft up to the CO standard BEFORE applying that standard? So many majo
68 n92r03 : I've done just over 125k miles in the last year on CO and UA. Most flight experiences were not memorable. In fact on one CO 772 flight the FA's were b
69 mayor : I seem to remember Smisek having a couple of very public PR gaffs right after he took over for Kellner at CO, but I can't find them, now. I thought a
70 tpaewr : That "ignorant culture" led a company that doubled in size the in the 15 year before the merger, while UA shrunk by a 1/3. Facts are that UA was and
71 AADC10 : Do you mean "FastAir"? It was United's overlay on Apollo. I can understand switching to SHARES as it is owned by CO while UA sold Apollo years ago to
72 flightopsguy : No need. He is very well compensated. At his level, we can speculate that even if he is gone at the end of the year, his parachute would ensure that
73 tommy767 : Yes I can see the PR machine at work if they had not merged, "CO will start flying 739ERs between EWR and LHR made possible by installing extra fuel
74 Cubsrule : OK, CO was strong in CLE, IAH and EWR (the last of which is admittedly an accomplishment). In which non-hub markets was CO "ever growing?" I can't th
75 Post contains images FlyASAGuy2005 : They weren't. Yes there was CLE, but IAH and EWR was all they had. They wouldn't have been able to grown fast enough through organic growth to keep u
76 Post contains images MaverickM11 : That's true for any network carrier--by definition their best growth opportunities are in their hubs. Pretty much every network carrier except AA has
77 Cubsrule : When DL merged, they talked about the "S-curve" markets, large-ish outstations like BNA or STL where they could gain market share by being the larges
78 Post contains images MaverickM11 : Right, and how is that working out for them ?
79 tommy767 : IIRC, pretty well. It didn't help that most of these sunbelt markets were only connected to ONE hub -- IAH on ERJs. People got pretty fed up with tha
80 mayor : I believe he was talking about DL.........
81 tpaewr : Ummmm, cause that means they had a failing biz model. Maybe an illustration will capture it. The last 15 years UA has been declining at the same rate
82 Cubsrule : UA added a number of spokes to SFO (cities like PIT and STL) in the 2000s. We could also look at a market like DSM, which is not a huge market by any
83 MaverickM11 : Outside of Texas, WAS saw some of the largest job growth in the last decade. The Bay area has had a resurgence in tech and a strong rebound in Transp
84 Cubsrule : What happened to CO available seats in markets like IAH-STL/BNA/JAX in the same period? Everyone shrank in response to LFCs in the 2000s. UA simply f
85 MaverickM11 : That has more to do with everyone's preference for DCA; most if not all those seats have migrated to DCA and done just fine there, and grown. Not at
86 Cubsrule : What, exactly, has UA done wrong post-bankruptcy? Perhaps the fact that UA has not grown IAD as much as you contend they should have has similar caus
87 EaglePower83 : Bla bla bla, Continental was God's gift to aviation, United sucked. Ok, fine. Whatever. The fact is, Sr. CO management came into this integrated organ
88 drerx7 : Well...I don't think 'people got fed up with that'. UA upgauging into IAH was a function of the lack of a decent aircraft between the ERJ and 735 - w
89 MaverickM11 : Let's start with what has the post bk UA mgmt team done, period?
90 BCEaglesCO757 : [ For someone who has admitted he has NEVER worked at CO or UA for that matter. On top of quoting what has been said on flytalk numerous times here .
91 Post contains images Cubsrule : I had never flown CO pre-merger, but I'm now traveling a lot to "interior Texas and Louisiana and have lots of opportunities for comparisons. There a
92 BCEaglesCO757 : If you repeat something enough times you'll start to believe it. As a sCO guy, Smisek has been a disaster. The anti-Bethune for sure. But lets not get
93 BCEaglesCO757 : If I go to a resturaunt or hotel with the perception or feeling that the service is absolutely horrbile....despite the best service that night or occa
94 max999 : As an outside observer, since I don't have much of a relationship with UA or CO as a customer, I have to say this thread has devolved into a catfight
95 BCEaglesCO757 : Another a.net or public misconception. There's no fisticuffs,shouting or yelling matches. Or big blow-ups. Then again....I don't work everywhere in t
96 Post contains images MaverickM11 : It may be a disaster now but it seems like things are tracking along w/ DL's merger per the numbers FlyASAGuy posted, and DL/NW were on the same rese
97 avek00 : CO's and UA's fates as standalone carriers were sealed the day DL and NW CEOs inked their proposal to merge. By early 2010, BOTH airlines were at ris
98 XJetflyer : Bottom line, I n this economy you have to be on your "A" game. There is no room for excuses or blame. Own up to your own faults and move forward. The
99 TVNWZ : I have a couple of friends who travel UA extensively and are top tier elites. They think very little has changed and have no issues. I sent them this
100 tommy767 : What's your beef with flyertalk? It's nice to hear about current and speific experiences instead of wearing the rose colored glasses that many hold o
101 drerx7 : Well, yes and no. RJs were the rage at that time - CO also had the scope clause that kept there hands tied - its arguable whether that is due to a la
102 tommy767 : But 2000-2010 saw massive cuts at CO. Within 2 years after having an ad campaign that claimed they had meals, pillows, and blankets, they were all go
103 Post contains images drerx7 : See my statement I acknowledge that here. CO was a great carrier...like I've always said - CO began there decline 2 CEO's ago. During that time - UA
104 FlyASAGuy2005 : I would have to see the numbers to believe this one. CO was pretty distant behind DL, UA, and AA. Right back there with NW. Of course if you can prod
105 AussieItaliano : Hahahaha! This discussion has devolved into "Who sucked more at the time of the merger, UA or CO?" At least nobody is really contesting that the new U
106 Post contains links and images tpaewr : There were no "massive cuts" at CO post 9/11. System ASMs dipped right after. CO flew 81,202M in 2001 77,193M in 2002 low point was 76,086M in 2003.
107 AirframeAS : Keep dreaming. That is never going to happen...ever.
108 FlyASAGuy2005 : I miss read your post. You said Europe and LatAm. How I read it, it seemed like you were saying CO was larger than UA, period, prior to the merger. I
109 tpaewr : Gotcha. You are correct. I was breaking out various markets. CO passed up UA in LatAm in 1999, in TATL in 2006, of its subsets UA had pulled out full
110 TVNWZ : Actually, seveeral business associates of mine do. See post 99.
111 AirframeAS : I have been involved in the airline industry for 14 years now and now I just started working for UA 3 months ago. I have to agree with TVNWZ here. I
112 FlyASAGuy2005 : I did notice that as well. Just a tidpit of info and some may find it trivial but Delta surpassed United for the first time EVER, reporting higher ca
113 CO777DAL : You make many good points. Also a major factor that really hampered CO growth was the 787 delays. CO management bet the farm on the 787 and it came b
114 tpaewr : Now, as tempting as that would be to dream about I'll refrain, since it can't be support by data. But you do make an intriguing point, all the more s
115 tommy767 : I doubt CO would have overtaken UA or DL in Asia had they got the 787s earlier. At the end of the day, they were a boutique carrier that had 2 major
116 AirframeAS : There are always going to be flaws and snafus in mergers. Again, they are not done perfectly. They are trying their best. Can't comment on that one a
117 Post contains images MaverickM11 : It's a fool's errand to dream of whatever a carrier might have done had history not happened. There's just no point. It was one of the last to add li
118 Post contains images BC77008 : A boutique carrier that served more international destinations than any other U.S. airline. But yes, I miss the boutique carrier that was Continental
119 avek00 : 1. It is misleading to assume that the sUA fleet was reasonably healthy at the close of the merger. The United fleet has been "unhealthy" for years on
120 AirframeAS : The recent Boeing order for the 739 and 739Max, that may improve the health of the fleet as a whole by getting rid of the 757's on the UA side. Thing
121 tommy767 : UA actually configured the 763 and 744 rather quickly. The 777, at 52ish frames was more of a feat to convert. Especially with the refreshed Y cabins
122 FlyPNS1 : An on-time performance rate of 65% doesn't make UA look bad?? This is the real problem. The cross-fleeting has been an epic failure because UA has ne
123 flyhossd : While I enjoy your posts and thoughts, you're incorrect here (see below). That's exactly right. For example, they moved a lot of 737 flying to DEN, b
124 tpaewr : Correct, the LAX base was opening as a 737 base, clearly you build the foundation first. EWR saw service to MHT before MAN. Agreed,in the short term,
125 Post contains images AirframeAS : It is something that UA needs to improve on, in which I know they are trying to now. And how long has US been at it with their labor groups?? As far
126 Cubsrule : This is the second or third time you've made this point in this thread alone. The question you have not answered is "so what?" Should UA have kept MI
127 drerx7 : Yep. Proudly so. Sad but true.
128 FlyASAGuy2005 : It's widely known at this point that it's out of LCC's hands. They'd love to run a much more efficient operation by not having this "East" and "West"
129 tpaewr : Not at all. In fact I never mentioned MIA at all. UA was falling apart in Latin America with MIA! Latin America is one part of the big picture many d
130 AirframeAS : My point still stands.
131 mayor : Sounds suspiciously like PanAm, right at the end.
132 tpaewr : While I am clearly critical of UA past leadership, I wouldn't go as far as saying that. UA still (mis)commanded an impressive franchise. What I take
133 FlyASAGuy2005 : What exactly is your point. Your drawing the conclusion that US is no better because their pilot group is not aligned. That's not a reflection of US
134 flyhossd : It's very clear that senior UA management isn't "trying their best" other than doing their best to fill their wallets. UA's and CO's corporate cultur
135 AussieItaliano : OK, point taken. I'll revise my statement. [Edited 2012-08-15 05:23:58]
136 Cubsrule : With regard to Latin America, every legacy save NW (which was markedly smaller than UA in the region) had a better hub for Latin America than UA. I d
137 COEWR787 : Mainly because UA couldn't afterall just withdraw from all international sectors. COs overtaking UA in various international sectors has as much to d
138 Cubsrule : But with regard to Latin America, that's really just a unilateral withdrawal from MIA, a move TPAEWR has said was shrewd. Do you believe that withdra
139 Post contains images MaverickM11 : It had no West Coast hub--how could it? How 'bout naming one place where UA was agressive and/or spent money on, besides rewarding management for doi
140 FlyASAGuy2005 : To be fair, I think everyone was fairly "unbalanced" in some arena.
141 T5towbar : We've been using Unimatic on all metal now. The new scanners have both systems. The only complaint with Unimatic is as a lead, you have to go into th
142 drerx7 : Amen Another way to pose this question is why did UA allow DL/NW to over take them in the Pacific?
143 Cubsrule : Throughout the 2000s, I'd say UA's strategy of increasingly overflying NRT and using NRT (and HKG) selectively for destinations that really cannot be
144 drerx7 : Eventhough Economy Plus and the FC on RJs is cool none of that really matters in this debate. The overlying NRT...well - they still slipped to #2 in
145 MaverickM11 : Long before bankruptcy. The only one added since bk was IADPEK. Also long before bankruptcy. This is the only thing I can think of, besides Ted, that
146 Cubsrule : I'd agree, but it beats 2 rows from the back with 30 inch pitch, and UA management has publicly claimed to be pleased with the results. I think my qu
147 United1 : When precisely did DL overtake UA across the Pacific....I took a look at the traffic date from 2008 until now and UA has always been larger than DL/N
148 MaverickM11 : I distinctly remember DL getting close if not passing UA in terms of scheduled ASMs, back when a certain someone was telling everyone that DL shall i
149 AirframeAS : This is where you are incorrect. In DEN, we are hiring into next year. By the time 2012 is all said and done, I will have seniority over approximatel
150 United1 : Doesn't look like they ever came close...that certain someone also tended to use his own definitions of what constituted what for traffic. IE adding
151 Post contains links tpaewr : So PHL,CLT, and ATL are better than LAX and SFO?? Srsly, you can defend their Latin Biz falling by half when the over all Latin market doubled in sam
152 Cubsrule : CLT and ATL certainly are. To understand why, look at a map. LAX is west of all of Latin America save TIJ and Baja California. LAX-GRU might have bee
153 MaverickM11 : Ha. That's probably very true. Whatever it was I remember arguing that the future schedule would likely be pulled down, and it obviously was and the
154 United1 : The numbers I posted came from UAs and DLs traffic releases....I separated them out where available... the airlines themselves chose to no longer sep
155 Cubsrule : Incidentally, this is a silly argument. DL gets "credit" for growth by merger but UA does not? Give me a break.
156 United1 : Indeed...never trust statistics you didn't falsify yourself. I don't think anyone can look back and say that this merger hasn't worked or that 2012 w
157 tommy767 : Well I could forget but then I remember that sCO upper management isn't running UA so great now. What worked for CO, isn't working for UA. Yup. You a
158 United1 : Well lets be honest....its a mix of UA and CO management running the show (about 53% UA with the ballence from CO.) You are right about something...w
159 drerx7 : Well...that is questionable. Safe yes...clean...no...reliable...no. I'd refer to TPAEWR's comments on the state of those birds. You are right about t
160 Post contains links United1 : Starting in 2009 UA was incredibly proactive in cleaning its jets...they had reversed most of the cleanliness isuees that had started creeping up dur
161 drerx7 : Yep, We have started seeing pmUA 757s being worked on at IAH...are there plans (there should be) to start mx on the Airbus at IAH?
162 BCEaglesCO757 : I fully agree. IMO, no US airline had or has better hubs than UA pre-merger or prior. ORD,SFO,LAX,IAD,DEN. O&D galore. We had virtually no presen
163 United1 : I'm not sure if the Airbi will be maintained in Houston or not....simply because the IAH mechanics are probably not trained on the Airbus fleet yet.
164 Post contains links tpaewr : Ok so let remove the variable of ALL the mergers and look only at data from 1995-2009 Again we see the impact of poor leadership and toxic culture at
165 United1 : I'm sure you can, as can I, but statistics only tell one side of the story....you need to know the entire picture to have an idea on what is going on
166 tpaewr : You are missing the whole point. UA was going no place before the merger. It had been going no place for many years. Spliting hairs over what IATA co
167 United1 : I understand that is what you believe....however I and others disagree with your point. You seem to be unwilling to look at any data except what you
168 tpaewr : Provide me some data!! Where was UA growing on a macro level? How did this compensate for what ostensibly looks like systematic decline?
169 kgaiflyer : I think what others are saying is that you are painting with so broad a brush that no one can discern what you *really* mean. And sinking and shrinki
170 United1 : ASM growth (or lack of) is not the only metric, in fact I think allot of people can make a case that it should not even be used, to determine the hea
171 FlyPNS1 : Except that the CO management has already decided that the legacy will be to keep shrinking. So was CO an unhealthy domestic carrier because CO has s
172 tpaewr : I'll get blasted now for repeating myself. I have posted the various data and break down above. But in a nutshell, the UA franchise shrank in both ab
173 kgaiflyer : Okay -- no quibbling since I flew pmCO and pmUA about 50-50 .
174 FlyPNS1 : Factually incorrect. All of the legacies (except CO) shrank in total ASM's over the past decade. CO managed to grow only because of it's substantiall
175 Cubsrule : Your misunderstanding of US-Asia market dynamics is astounding. For most of the past 20 years, US-Japan has shrunk, US-everywhere else in Asia has gr
176 tpaewr : You make a solid point! Growth is meaningless if it isn't making $$$. But if we look at the number (I only have back to 2000 in this case) UA lost 12
177 United1 : So where to start one....UA is not the same company as it was prior to BK. To even connect the finances back that far is laughable, and pointless, as
178 AirframeAS : Why can't we just send the Airbuses to SFO since we have an MX base there? Is there a problem with finding space for the Airbuses in that hangar or s
179 drerx7 : IAH sees a lot of Airbuses now. So I am just asking if they plan on doing 319/320 mx in Houston at some point.
180 United1 : Most of the Airbi overhaul work is outsourced right now...line MTC is done throughout the system including at SFO. Also I don't think the Airbus airc
181 United1 : It would make since to retool and spin up IAH/HOU MTC to deal with the Airbi if they plan on opening a base there.
182 FlyPNS1 : IN 2000, CO had over 54,000,000,000 ASM's, but by 2011 CO had only over 50,000,000,000 ASM's domestically. So no growth there. CO's growth has been e
183 FlyASAGuy2005 : IDK about operationally. You need not look further than the DOT reports posted for 2010 and back. They're very easy to find in the BTS archives, as I
184 Post contains links United1 : Here are some data points for you..all are January to December 2010....I added in DL as they are UAs main rival. On Time Performance: UA #3 85.2 (beh
185 MaverickM11 : I remember thinking this was the year they finally realized their shrink-shrink-shrink sell-sell-sell strategy wasn't working so well and they might
186 drerx7 : That was the time in which they abandoned a lot of those practices.
187 United1 : I don't disagree with that statement at all...UA finally started running an airline again and the improvement was noticeable to everyone.
188 Post contains links UAL-Fan : Does any other airline have a website like www.untied.com dedicated to people wanting to complain about the airline. I'm just curious because you read
189 Post contains links United1 : www.southworst.com (directs to WNs website ) https://www.facebook.com/IHateDeltaAirlines http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0E7y-Y8zPOA http://www.faceboo
190 tpaewr : I am delighted to to learn, do carry on Got that, ok Agreed Ummmmmmm, so that is it?? Care to flesh that out a little bit?? Kinda anticlimactic dontc
191 mayor : Sort of curious, here.....your profile says you are 21-25.........HOW long has Bethune been gone, now? Get my drift?
192 tpaewr : Joined Airliners.net: 11 years 2 months 27 days ago (May 19, 2001) Sorry, I haven't updated in a decade or so :P
193 Post contains images mayor : Might not be a bad idea. It would prevent "curious" inquires such as mine.
194 United1 : OK now we are splitting hairs...you work for UA....you may be in deep denial about it but you do. LAX-anything other than Mexico in latin america does
195 CO777DAL : tpaewr I'm curious. Do you know the ASM for Asia if you added CO and Continental Micronesia? Seems like Asia numbers are missing Continental Micronesi
196 tpaewr : Well, no. I have spoken almost exclusively or "bashing" as you put it old UA. I believe that was the thrust of your question, no? I never worked for
197 MaverickM11 : The fares are obscene, both in absolute terms and relative to more eastern hubs, plus people don't realize how much farther LAX is from Latin America
198 Cubsrule : What you're missing is inertia. Even though it's been clear for a decade or more that NRT hubs are not the wave of the future, NW and UA couldn't jus
199 MaverickM11 : NW and later DL's problem was really their hubs, not the equipment. When your hubs are MEM, MSP, and DTW, what on earth can you possibly fly in Asia
200 Cubsrule : PVG isn't auto specific, and they've tried both DTW-PVG and ATL-PVG.
201 MaverickM11 : I'm pretty sure DTWPVG is supported almost entirely by auto traffic. ATLPVG didn't work any of the times they tried it. Regardless, there's very litt
202 Cubsrule : I don't know the numbers. There's a fair amount of auto business around PVG (mostly south of Shanghai along the coast). But historically, Ford has ce
203 tommy767 : Who cares about utilization rates? That's too bad that the lack of widebodies prevented CO from EXPANDING like they could have -- It was shortsighted
204 United1 : I think the 76E investment is a great idea...however the 76E's are about 10 years younger on average than the the 76I's are and will remain in the fe
205 Post contains links STT757 : CO did order an additional 8 777-200ERs in February 2008 to make up for the 787 delay. http://www.flightglobal.com/airspace...ers-for-8-x-777-and-19-
206 tommy767 : Not sure if this is true. I thought they were planning on keeping them alongside with the 788s. The J and F product on the 763 is pretty new. Overall
207 United1 : Supposedly 2 are leaving next year...
208 MaverickM11 : And what was UA's order? Zip until 2010. They were parking planes left and right, including entire fleets. Look, I don't know who hurt you at CO, but
209 tommy767 : Board generalizations there. How can NW be at both the top and bottom? And how is AA in between when they have done nothing but shrink in the last fe
210 United1 : There should be around 13 788's on property by the end of the year, in addition to the 14/15 76E's coming online so having available aircraft for ove
211 tommy767 : 13 788's by 2013? Seems like a lot. Can Boeing really deliver on this with all the delays?
212 United1 : Small correction should be 11 788s by next year.... UA should have 6 delivered by the end of the year (only 4 on service.) 5 deliveries next years sh
213 tommy767 : Just a hunch -- considering UA decided to not let go of the leased 757 and 735s this year, I think the trend might continue for the 763s into 2013.
214 Post contains images MaverickM11 : Nope, it's not. It's like comparing Target and Sears. Sears was a great brand once upon a time but lost the plot recently, in much the same way UA an
215 Post contains links United1 : There are still some 757, 767, and 737s leaving this year..just not as many of them as was originally planned. http://phx.corporate-ir.net/External..
216 Post contains images kgaiflyer : True. It's hard to believe that after all this rhetoric, some still find Continental a gift from the gods (it's not) and United the spawn of the devi
217 tommy767 : This happened to me as well on a PS flight in J around new years. I wasn't happy about that. Yeah still wondering why people think that CO is so godl
218 STT757 : I don't understand, was ordering the aircraft a bad decision or taking only two of the eight? I think it was a wise move especially in light that two
219 United1 : They are not getting rid of 5 763s....they are removing 5 762s from the fleet this year (they have already retired 3.) As of January 1 2013 the 767 f
220 MaverickM11 : OK it's clear you're not bothering with a shred of data or understanding of the airlines or department stores.
221 drerx7 : Every airline should. Planes don't make money on the ground. UA had an inefficiently low utilization rate of its aircraft...all to mask the crippled
222 tommy767 : CO already stuck it to the man (UA) in 2008 by not merging with them. They were independant, and could have used all 8 777s back then to further grow
223 STT757 : UA was the poster child for excess widebody capacity, 14 767-300s flying LAX-Kona etc.. is excessive when everyone else is flying 757s and 737s. Thos
224 Post contains images MaverickM11 : Oh yeah, DEN is a *great* place for a 744
225 tommy767 : Really? Are you serious with that claim? DEN hasn't seen a 744 in quite a few years. DL and AA still fly 767s on LAX-HNL The 14 763 weren't ONLY used
226 MaverickM11 : Well into 2005. And international 777s and 763s well into 2010--DEN is a wonderful place for 4 cabin low density aircraft....
227 tommy767 : Apparently it still is under the new regime. 3-class 777 and 763 still fly DEN-IAD/ORD/LAX/SFO
228 United1 : DEN saw a 744 one or twice a day as a tag on from an international flight...not a waste of capacity to use them as a high capacity people mover betwe
229 MaverickM11 : Departures are down about 75%
230 kgaiflyer : I agree. That's pretty off-the-wall BS. Btw, the 777s pmUA flew DEN-IAD as a continuation of the Frankfurt flight were always full-up.
231 tommy767 : Exactly and considering UA is still flying 3-class 777s out of DEN says a lot. It's a a.net fallacy that DEN is not profitable for UA. 75% of what? W
232 AirframeAS : How old is the oldest Airbus we have as well as the youngest?
233 United1 : The 320s came online between late 1993 and 2002, 319s between 1997 and 2002.
234 AirframeAS : Yeah, I think some of those Airbuses need to go. Thankfully, some will be retired once the MAX comes online per the August issue of WORLD employee ne
235 MaverickM11 : Departures. About 8 at its peak to 2 now. Must be great if it's full, even though it drove F9 into CH11 on nosebleed load factors, never mind WN.
236 United1 : I'm sure some of them will be however in the meantime they will receive new seats, overhead bins and WiFi.
237 strfyr51 : Just WHO told you THAT piece of trash?? we're doing Overhead Bin Mods and new seats.. Why would you think they're doing that to get rid of them?? Do
238 United1 : That the A320/A319... ...was on the quarterly earnings conference call.
239 CO777DAL : I think that is where things go a miss. CO didn't need UA. I remember when the merger rumors were started people on UA said were so happy almost ever
240 Post contains images tpaewr : Yes, I agree! But it seems as if you are saying that UA and NW position as entrenched incumbent with high value slots and privileged goverment grante
241 tommy767 : Big whoop. The way it seems from some of the CO cheerleaders is that all the PMUA aircraft are "so tired, old, decrepit, falling apart" that they all
242 Post contains images drerx7 : Well, that would make me happy if it was a mix between 787s/748s/and739s....but lets start with just bringing the pmUA birds up to CO specs and relia
243 Post contains images AirframeAS : Uhhh, not the new seats, but the overhead bins are getting wider on the Airbuses. It was brought up in United Daily emails as of late. And please, le
244 kgaiflyer : I don't see the A = B connection Btw, the pm763s I've flown IAD-DEN have also been full. However, I did fly a dinner-hour UA DC-10 back in 1994 that
245 AirframeAS : Back in early 2009, the flight loads on F9's DEN-DCA runs were 65% or so. Now (2012) they are full to the gills making it extremely impossible to non
246 tpaewr : Because as I have noted ad nauseum; for many years CO was growing in the very same int'l markets UA was retracting from. Best example Latin America.
247 Cubsrule : No. For UA, there was no stagnation. You are treating "Asia" like a homogenous market, and it is not. UA shrunk Japan (a shrinking market) and grew A
248 drerx7 : The local market was large enough to support 757 service...Without that bird most of those destinations would not be possible. Nothing more wrong wit
249 Post contains links tpaewr : If the first half of your statement was accurate, the second would have value. This now mark at least the 3rd time you have "quoted" me saying things
250 Post contains links tpaewr : I hunted down the guilty employee!! You are correct he comes from the sCO side. You may have heard of him? Jeff Smisek http://travel.usatoday.com/all
251 Beardown91737 : CO went from first to worst in the early 80s, and whatever is claimed about the superiority of the CO network, their climb back was largely unnoticed
252 SA7700 : This thread has run its course with some members going off topic and getting personal towards one another instead of discussing the topic. The thread
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