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Bombardier Global 7000 Stolen In Venezuela!  
User currently online797 From Venezuela, joined Aug 2005, 1894 posts, RR: 27
Posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 29883 times:

Hi everyone,

According to the Venezuelan SAR, a Global 7000 with registration 9H-FED was stolen last night at the Valencia Airport:

@notisar1: VENEZUELA ROBO DE AVION 9H-FED BOMBARDIER 7000 DE VALENCIA

Can anyone confirm this?

How can such a large plane be stolen??? You need at least a 7,000ft runway to land this plane... This is ridiculous!!!

Comments?

797


Flying isn't dangerous. Crashing is what's dangerous!
96 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinerfields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7607 posts, RR: 31
Reply 1, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 29898 times:

I'm not basing this on where this supposedly happened, because it has happened in the US and Europe.

Usually when something like this surfaces - the plane has been repossessed by the owner/ finance company. The person operating the plane, who everyone thought was the owner, has not been making required payments, and the real owner company hires some people to return the plane to their custody.

Occasionally it is the reverse - the operator arranges for the aircraft to be taken to a private location to hide the aircraft from the real owners.

The problem with the second scenario is that it is very hard to operate such an aircraft if the real owners are looking for it.


User currently offlinespiritair97 From United States of America, joined Jan 2011, 1231 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 29802 times:

Sounds like a repo to me.

User currently offlineNavion From United States of America, joined May 1999, 1013 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 29765 times:

Global 7000? That's a paper design that's not yet been built. It would have to be a Global 5000 or a Global XRS.

User currently offlineRobK From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2004, 3947 posts, RR: 18
Reply 4, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 29730 times:

It's an XRS. 7000 doesn't exist.

User currently offlinetjwgrr From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 2444 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 29705 times:

Quoting spiritair97 (Reply 2):
Sounds like a repo to me.

Nick's team?




Direct KNOBS, maintain 2700' until established on the localizer, cleared ILS runway 26 left approach.
User currently offlinetdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 79
Reply 6, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 29638 times:

Quoting 797 (Thread starter):
How can such a large plane be stolen???

Very easily. During a particularly boring moment a few years ago a bunch of us tried to figure out how to steal an airplane. Our conclusion is that it would be incredibly easy to do...the tricky part is doing it without people realizing you've done it. These guys will have the law on their ass in to time, airplanes are hard to hide. However, if the guys who stole it are actually the rightful owners now....

Quoting 797 (Thread starter):
You need at least a 7,000ft runway to land this plane...

No way. An XRS can take off in 6,000' and, rule of thumb, you only need about half your takeoff distance to land.

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 1):
Usually when something like this surfaces - the plane has been repossessed by the owner/ finance company.

Exactly. I once flew beside a guy who used to do airplane repos for a living. He had amazing stories.

Tom.


User currently offlineLV From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 2005 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 29566 times:

Quoting Navion (Reply 3):
Global 7000? That's a paper design that's not yet been built. It would have to be a Global 5000 or a Global XRS.
Quoting Navion (Reply 3):
It's an XRS. 7000 doesn't exist.

That's what they want you to think. In reality they have had it for years out at Area 51  


User currently offlinePlymSpotter From Spain, joined Jun 2004, 11655 posts, RR: 60
Reply 8, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 29549 times:

Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 6):
No way. An XRS can take off in 6,000' and, rule of thumb, you only need about half your takeoff distance to land.

They would be particularly dumb criminals if they stole a plane which needed 6,000ft of runway to take off and then landed it on a remote 4,000ft strip to hide.


Dan  



...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
User currently offlineDevilfish From Philippines, joined Jan 2006, 4839 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 29325 times:

Quoting RobK (Reply 4):
It's an XRS. 7000 doesn't exist.

The registration matches this.....

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Igor Dvurekov



Might the OP have been excited with the zeros because the plane (seen above in LED) was being used by somebody important?  



"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
User currently offlineg500 From United States of America, joined Oct 2011, 967 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 29298 times:
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this is something very serious. I hope this is a repo, because if criminals start stealing business jets, then the whole world is going to hell in a hand basket... that Global probably had a price tag of $55-60 million USD

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 8):
They would be particularly dumb criminals if they stole a plane which needed 6,000ft of runway to take off and then landed it on a remote 4,000ft strip to hide.

That would be interesting, I mean criminals are not the sharpest of people. Imagine stealing a Global Express and landing it on a grass strip in the middle of the jungle to hide?? jeez

nice bird

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Marco Pianca - airphototicino



User currently offlineRobK From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2004, 3947 posts, RR: 18
Reply 11, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 29206 times:

It's operated by a company called Hyperion according to its flight plans. They operate a number of other bizzers on the Maltese register too.

User currently offlineGonzalo From Chile, joined Aug 2005, 1988 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 29143 times:

I think you could make a call to Mr. Nick Popovich to find where is this plane resting as we speak...  


80 Knots...V1...Rotate...Gear Up...DC-3 / EMB-110 / Fairchild-227 / Ab318-19-20 / B732 / B763
User currently offlinefrancoflier From France, joined Oct 2001, 3766 posts, RR: 11
Reply 13, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 29021 times:

Venezuela?

I'd put some money on it having been stolen to be packed full of drugs, flown on a run to somewhere in the Caribbean, or even south US and dumped there...



Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit posting...
User currently offlinequeb From Canada, joined May 2010, 685 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 28930 times:

Operation Repo ????    http://www.trutv.com/shows/operation_repo/index.html

User currently offlineSXI899 From Netherlands, joined Jan 2008, 269 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 28895 times:

I doubt that its been repossessed, as Venezuela require overflight permission for foreign registered aircraft.
Add on top of that flightplans, fuel and the like, it strikes me as unlikely that the local authorities wouldn't know if it was repossessed.



Any Type, Any Time, Anywhere
User currently offlinen797mx From United States of America, joined Mar 2009, 214 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 27710 times:

Quoting 797 (Thread starter):
How can such a large plane be stolen??? You need at least a 7,000ft runway to land this plane... This is ridiculous!!!

I've seen a Global Express land in BUF and make the runway intersection, which even if they used the entire usable runway is only about 3000ft. Plus the wiki page says only 2600ft is needed even at max landing weight. (Even though that seems pretty low to me)



Clear skies and strong tail winds.
User currently offlineg500 From United States of America, joined Oct 2011, 967 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 27506 times:
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Quoting n797mx (Reply 16):
I've seen a Global Express land in BUF and make the runway intersection, which even if they used the entire usable runway is only about 3000ft. Plus the wiki page says only 2600ft is needed even at max landing weight

if that Global is empty, yes 2600ft MIGHT do it.... but if you're going from Los Angeles to Tokyo with a full tank of fuel, you're looking at 6500ft minimun to get a Global off the ground...

In this scenario, I bet that Global was empty


User currently offlinemcoatc From United States of America, joined Mar 2009, 195 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 27142 times:

Quoting n797mx (Reply 16):
I've seen a Global Express land in BUF and make the runway intersection, which even if they used the entire usable runway is only about 3000ft. Plus the wiki page says only 2600ft is needed even at max landing weight. (Even though that seems pretty low to me

I've seen a Global depart MCO for California use roughly 3000ft of runway. The Global is an amazing runway performer. For those that may not believe this, check this video out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMvRjg5Ec7A

Quoting SXI899 (Reply 15):
I doubt that its been repossessed, as Venezuela require overflight permission for foreign registered aircraft.
Add on top of that flightplans, fuel and the like, it strikes me as unlikely that the local authorities wouldn't know if it was repossessed.

Here's the thing. How exactly does one go about stealing a large corporate jet? It wouldn't exactly be something done after drinking a few too many cervezas, this would have to be well planned, with a fairly well-qualified pilot lined up. More importantly, what in holy hell would you do with it when you took it? This isn't a toyota, of which there are hundreds of thousands built every year. According to Wiki, as of 2010 there were only 400 Globals built. Corporate jets are essentially hand-crafted and their ownership is known to the manufacturer, who provides ownership support. I'm pretty sure if you called Bombardier with a newly registered jet that originated out of nowhere, things would fall apart pretty rapidly after a simple check of the builder's plate. Heck, if you parted it out, who would you sell the parts to and how?

That's why I'll go with repo or anything drug related.

Quoting g500 (Reply 10):
That would be interesting, I mean criminals are not the sharpest of people.

If you mean they guys who rob gas stations, then yes I'll agree. I'll give credit though that people who deal in larger ticket items are not only not stupid, but they may well be far smarter then you are I, just with looser morals.


User currently offline26point2 From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 825 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 26990 times:

Haven't landed the Global on a 2600ft strip....yet, but have landed it many times on a 5000' foot runway and easily turned off about halfway down.

People, it's never a question about landing but about takeoff. The Global is very good at this too. Especially if you are flying a stolen airplane and could care less about regulations, balanced field and 2nd segment climb criteria.

The Global 5000 demonstrator flew from Hilton Head, SC with its 4300' runway to Paris a few years ago. Surely done legally. Imagine what one could do illegally.


User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15744 posts, RR: 27
Reply 20, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 26888 times:

Quoting 797 (Thread starter):
How can such a large plane be stolen???

Not that hard if you have someone to fly it and can gain access (lawfully or otherwise) to the airport. A lot of airports don't have many people around so you could be some distance away before anyone notices.

People still pull art heists despite modern security. And planes are designed to move.

Quoting 797 (Thread starter):
You need at least a 7,000ft runway to land this plane...

No you don't. More like 4,500 to 5,000 ft, if that.

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 1):
Usually when something like this surfaces - the plane has been repossessed by the owner/ finance company.

That seems most likely.

Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 6):
These guys will have the law on their ass in to time, airplanes are hard to hide.

Are they really though? If you can get off to a far flung part of the world or one where people just don't ask a lot of questions I'd think it's possible. Hard would be what to do with it then since all the parts have serial numbers on them and such.

If it was really a theft rather than a repo, I'm thinking it may be insurance fraud. Or trying to avoid a repo...



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently online797 From Venezuela, joined Aug 2005, 1894 posts, RR: 27
Reply 21, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 26800 times:

To fly in Venezuela with a foreign registered plane you need a pack of permissions that in any other country are ridiculous. For this Global to have been stolen, something must have been cooked with the 'locals'

I did my research and the plane was parked far away from the FBO. It was pared next to the Aeroclub, which is next to the National Guard. I'm not putting this on anyone, but I'm just adding the numbers...

This ain't no VW Beetle we're talking about. It's one of the top biz jets out there!

How about any tracking devices for this particular aircraft?

797



Flying isn't dangerous. Crashing is what's dangerous!
User currently offlineAvianca From Venezuela, joined Jan 2005, 5925 posts, RR: 40
Reply 22, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 26611 times:

Quoting 797 (Thread starter):
How can such a large plane be stolen???

yes it can it least in Venezuela!   

btw I am going tomorrow to Sydney for shopping, wana join?   



Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
User currently offlineLXa332 From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 49 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 26395 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 20):
Are they really though? If you can get off to a far flung part of the world or one where people just don't ask a lot of questions I'd think it's possible. Hard would be what to do with it then since all the parts have serial numbers on them and such.

The ex-AA 727 (N844AA) that was stolen in Angola comes to mind. It's a bigger airplane, but was never found.


User currently offlinetdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 79
Reply 24, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 26371 times:

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 8):
Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 6):
No way. An XRS can take off in 6,000' and, rule of thumb, you only need about half your takeoff distance to land.

They would be particularly dumb criminals if they stole a plane which needed 6,000ft of runway to take off and then landed it on a remote 4,000ft strip to hide.

6,000' is at max. You can get off in far less. 4,000' would be plenty as long as you're not going too far.

Quoting g500 (Reply 10):
that Global probably had a price tag of $55-60 million USD

That's retail...resale would be nearly nil since there's no way to support it without giving up the ghost.

Quoting mcoatc (Reply 18):
More importantly, what in holy hell would you do with it when you took it?

Exactly. Taking it is easy. Doing something useful after that is...hard...

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 20):
Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 6):
These guys will have the law on their ass in to time, airplanes are hard to hide.

Are they really though? If you can get off to a far flung part of the world or one where people just don't ask a lot of questions I'd think it's possible.

I sort of meant "hide while using." Yes, to literally hide it would be easy, but then what would be the point of stealing it? Using it as an airplane after stealing it is the nearly impossible part.

Tom.


User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15744 posts, RR: 27
Reply 25, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 27135 times:

Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 24):
Yes, to literally hide it would be easy, but then what would be the point of stealing it?

Well insurance fraud for one.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlinetdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 79
Reply 26, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 26722 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 25):
Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 24):
Yes, to literally hide it would be easy, but then what would be the point of stealing it?

Well insurance fraud for one.

Wouldn't it have been easier just to sell it?

Tom.


User currently offline26point2 From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 825 posts, RR: 0
Reply 27, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 27685 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 25):
Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 24):
Yes, to literally hide it would be easy, but then what would be the point of stealing it?

Well insurance fraud for one.

A GLEX could carry a few tons of cocaine and fly a very long way at low level to deliver it. Not 6000nm but ....how far is Venezuala from The US again?


User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15744 posts, RR: 27
Reply 28, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 27330 times:

Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 26):
Wouldn't it have been easier just to sell it?

Theoretically, but that takes time and you may not get what you paid or owe for the plane.

Maybe some sort of money laundering scam? Buy a plane with dirty money, have it stolen, and get a clean check from the insurance company?

Of course this is all just speculation.

Quoting 26point2 (Reply 27):
A GLEX could carry a few tons of cocaine and fly a very long way at low level to deliver it. Not 6000nm but ....how far is Venezuala from The US again?

Not far. But most drug/weapons smuggling stories I've seen have used older planes, and usually larger too. More like 727s or 707s rather than business jets. I've never heard of one lasting long either, probably due to inability or lack of interest in maintenance. I would think that for a shady individual looking for transportation, an elaborate setup of shell companies would work just as well and attract less unwanted attention.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently online797 From Venezuela, joined Aug 2005, 1894 posts, RR: 27
Reply 29, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 27628 times:

BREAKING NEWS:

Seems like the aircraft was found in the Canary Islands loaded with 'white powder'

Can anyone confirm?

This is some serious crazy stuff IMHO.

797



Flying isn't dangerous. Crashing is what's dangerous!
User currently offlinezkojq From New Zealand, joined Sep 2011, 1222 posts, RR: 1
Reply 30, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 27269 times:

Quoting mcoatc (Reply 18):
That's why I'll go with repo or anything drug related.
Quoting 26point2 (Reply 27):
A GLEX could carry a few tons of cocaine and fly a very long way at low level to deliver it. Not 6000nm but ....how far is Venezuala from The US again?

Bingo. While this seems to most likely be a case of the aircraft being repossessed by its owners, this could certainly be drug related. The reason I say this is that in 2009 there was a case of a stolen Boeing 727 being used by a cartel to transport cocaine from South America to somewhere near Gao, Mali (from there it gets distributed to europe). The link to the relevant airliners.net thread is below. If a cartel can steal a Boeing 727, then surely they can do the same to a Bombardier GLEX? The distance between Valencia, Venezuela (where the Bombardier GLEX was taken from) and Gao, Mali (where the mentioned Boeing 727 was found) is about 4000nm - well within its range. I guess a relevant question is how much payload can a Bombardier Global Express carry over that distance - keeping in mind that even just a tonne of cocaine will be worth millions of dollars and the acquisition costs will be very close to nil.

Venezuelan Drugs Boeing Crashed In Mali: UN (by PH-BFA Nov 16 2009 in Civil Aviation)

Quoting LXa332 (Reply 23):
The ex-AA 727 (N844AA) that was stolen in Angola comes to mind. It's a bigger airplane, but was never found.

See link above. Unfortunately I can't find the serial number or registration of the Boeing 727 that crashed, but maybe it could be N844AA.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 28):
But most drug/weapons smuggling stories I've seen have used older planes, and usually larger too. More like 727s or 707s rather than business jets. I've never heard of one lasting long either, probably due to inability or lack of interest in maintenance.

I would think that once the aircraft has transported the drugs, it has done its job and its mission finished. Continuing to operate it presents a significant risk to the cartel as it could be linked back to them. Thus if the plane is a drug mule, I would think that as soon as the illegal cargo gets removed, the plane will probably be torched. Very sad if this happens as the aircraft looks very nice.

[Edited 2012-08-12 20:34:04]


Air New Zealand; first to fly the Boeing 787-9. ZK-NZE, NZ103 AKL-SYD, 2014/08/09. I was 83rd to board.
User currently offlineAR385 From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 6209 posts, RR: 30
Reply 31, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 26824 times:
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Quoting francoflier (Reply 13):
I'd put some money on it having been stolen to be packed full of drugs, flown on a run to somewhere in the Caribbean, or even south US and dumped there...

Most likely. But, I bet it is going to some desert strip in Africa rather than the Caribbean.



MGGS
User currently offlinefrancoflier From France, joined Oct 2001, 3766 posts, RR: 11
Reply 32, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 24571 times:

Quoting AR385 (Reply 31):
. But, I bet it is going to some desert strip in Africa rather than the Caribbean.

According to 797's post above, it seems they dumped it in the Canary Islands. So the stuff was going to Europe. Makes sense.

Still, called it...  



Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit posting...
User currently offlineTC957 From UK - England, joined May 2012, 876 posts, RR: 0
Reply 33, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 24108 times:

Which airport in the Canary Islands has it been left in ?

User currently offlineAR385 From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 6209 posts, RR: 30
Reply 34, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 24053 times:
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Quoting 797 (Reply 29):
This is some serious crazy stuff IMHO.

Not really, that stunt has been going on for a few years now. They usually pack the plane with Cocaine and fly from South America to some strip in Africa and ditch the plane. Then the "cargo" is taken to Europe. It´s becoming a major entry operation into the EU.



MGGS
User currently offlinePlymSpotter From Spain, joined Jun 2004, 11655 posts, RR: 60
Reply 35, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 23492 times:

Quoting mcoatc (Reply 18):
I've seen a Global depart MCO for California use roughly 3000ft of runway. The Global is an amazing runway performer. For those that may not believe this, check this video out.
Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 24):
6,000' is at max. You can get off in far less. 4,000' would be plenty as long as you're not going too far.

Very true, I was envisaging some hot and humid strip at altitude which is probably a bit too 'hollywood'. I've seen one depart on a cool day at near sea level from a 3,800ft runway. Just two people on board mind, but impressive nevertheless.


Dan  



...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
User currently offlineg500 From United States of America, joined Oct 2011, 967 posts, RR: 0
Reply 36, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 23416 times:
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Quoting 797 (Reply 29):
BREAKING NEWS:

Seems like the aircraft was found in the Canary Islands loaded with 'white powder'

Can anyone confirm?

This is some serious crazy stuff IMHO.

I suppose two Global Express typed-rated pilots agreed tp do this? or is it just any pilot without the type ratings and "we'll learn the airplane as we go"?


User currently offlinefrancoflier From France, joined Oct 2001, 3766 posts, RR: 11
Reply 37, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 23170 times:

Quoting g500 (Reply 36):
I suppose two Global Express typed-rated pilots agreed tp do this? or is it just any pilot without the type ratings and "we'll learn the airplane as we go"?

Most often they're pilots with no experience on type. At most they light have a few hours on bizjets.
They probably have a quick look at basic operation of the systems and nav equipment and off they go. A relatively large proportion of these flights end in disaster due to pilot inexperience, lack of preparation and the general shoddiness of the whole affair...

They're also given a LOT of money for the one flight...



Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit posting...
User currently offlinezkojq From New Zealand, joined Sep 2011, 1222 posts, RR: 1
Reply 38, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 22958 times:

Quoting g500 (Reply 36):
I suppose two Global Express typed-rated pilots agreed tp do this? or is it just any pilot without the type ratings and "we'll learn the airplane as we go"?

Or some financially desperate Bombardier CRJ pilots who have been furloughed? The flight decks aren't identical, but there is probably enough commonality between the two aircraft types to make such a transition work.



Air New Zealand; first to fly the Boeing 787-9. ZK-NZE, NZ103 AKL-SYD, 2014/08/09. I was 83rd to board.
User currently offlineacelanzarote From Spain, joined Nov 2005, 831 posts, RR: 0
Reply 39, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 22889 times:

I had 9H-FED on my SBS yesterday, down to 1150ft at 5pm ish, so suspect it may have gone into LPA (Gran Canaria)?


from the Island with sun and great photo's.. Why not visit Lanzarote
User currently offlinefcogafa From United Kingdom, joined May 2008, 804 posts, RR: 0
Reply 40, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 21813 times:

Translated from Spanish site (with photo)
http://www.canarias7.es/articulo.cfm?id=271666

In a joint operation of the Senior Police and Civil Guard alerted by Interpol, this Sunday intercepted a private jet on a runway Gando Airport in Gran Canaria, suspecting that it might carry a large stash of cocaine boxes of humanitarian aid Red Cross.

The troops that participated in the operation at the airport in Gran Canaria on Sunday did not know the amount of drug that could carry the aircraft, although several sources said they found boxes in the hold of Red Cross humanitarian aid of 50 kilos each. According to investigative sources the plane came from Palm Beach International Airport in Miami, bound for an airport in Germany. The only occupants of the aircraft, a pilot, copilot and a flight attendant were held immediately after landing in Gran Canaria and are waiting for the police court and the Attorney Telde Las Palmas warehouse inspect the appliance and the load . The pilot of the plane is a Colombian national, while the rest of the cabin crew is German


User currently offlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9821 posts, RR: 11
Reply 41, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 21622 times:

Quoting acelanzarote (Reply 39):
I had 9H-FED on my SBS yesterday, down to 1150ft at 5pm ish, so suspect it may have gone into LPA (Gran Canaria)?
Quoting fcogafa (Reply 40):
Translated from Spanish site (with photo)
http://www.canarias7.es/articulo.cfm?id=271666

In a joint operation of the Senior Police and Civil Guard alerted by Interpol, this Sunday intercepted a private jet on a runway Gando Airport in Gran Canaria, suspecting that it might carry a large stash of cocaine boxes of humanitarian aid Red Cross.

The troops that participated in the operation at the airport in Gran Canaria on Sunday did not know the amount of drug that could carry the aircraft, although several sources said they found boxes in the hold of Red Cross humanitarian aid of 50 kilos each. According to investigative sources the plane came from Palm Beach International Airport in Miami, bound for an airport in Germany. The only occupants of the aircraft, a pilot, copilot and a flight attendant were held immediately after landing in Gran Canaria and are waiting for the police court and the Attorney Telde Las Palmas warehouse inspect the appliance and the load . The pilot of the plane is a Colombian national, while the rest of the cabin crew is German

So the aircraft has been located. Baed on the above posts, the aircraft must have flown from Venezuela to Florida and onwards to Gran Canaria where it has been stopped.

A388


User currently offlinerleiro From Venezuela, joined Jan 2006, 499 posts, RR: 7
Reply 42, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 20512 times:

Quoting A388 (Reply 41):
So the aircraft has been located. Baed on the above posts, the aircraft must have flown from Venezuela to Florida and onwards to Gran Canaria where it has been stopped.

The filed flightplan might be a fake one. The aircraft has the range for a non-stop flight from PBI to Germany.

Saludos,

Roberto.



A proud SVZM Spotter!
User currently offlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9821 posts, RR: 11
Reply 43, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 20259 times:

Quoting rleiro (Reply 42):
The filed flightplan might be a fake one. The aircraft has the range for a non-stop flight from PBI to Germany.

Saludos,

Roberto.

That might very well be true but the aircraft has been stopped in Gran Canaria, so it's physically there as per the post in this thread and not in Germany.

A388


User currently offline777jaah From Colombia, joined Jan 2006, 1403 posts, RR: 0
Reply 44, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 19910 times:

Quoting A388 (Reply 41):
the aircraft must have flown from Venezuela to Florida and onwards to Gran Canaria where it has been stopped.

Or problably direct from Venezuela to Gran Canaria. Surely, It had a bogus flight plan from Palm Beach to gran canaria.



Next flights: AV BOG-ADZ-BOG, AV-UA BOG-IAD-ORD-IAD-BOG, BOG-FLL-BOG, LA BOG-MIA-BOG J
User currently offlinerfields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7607 posts, RR: 31
Reply 45, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 19869 times:

Quoting rleiro (Reply 42):
The filed flightplan might be a fake one. The aircraft has the range for a non-stop flight from PBI to Germany.

The aircraft could also have flown from Venezula to Germany.

But I agree it was likely a fake flightplan.

Why load an aircraft with drugs, and fly from South America into a US customs airport where they know it will be checked. (Though of course folks could be paid to look the other way. That's also how a fake flight plan can get entered into the system.)

As noted above several places, the normal route is remote airport in South America to remote airport in Africa.

Going into the Canaries would indicate to me that likely the aircraft departed with a less than full fuel load - possibly they were a bit worried about takeoff performance with the 'cargo load'.

The sad thing is that this pretty much ends the aircraft's productive career. Once an aircraft is involved in drug smuggling, it is going to be search extensively every time it comes into many countries.

The type of folks who buy/ charter this type plane are not going to put up with that.


User currently offlineblueflyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4002 posts, RR: 2
Reply 46, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 19809 times:
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Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 45):
The sad thing is that this pretty much ends the aircraft's productive career. Once an aircraft is involved in drug smuggling, it is going to be search extensively every time it comes into many countries.

Wouldn't a new registration be enough to leave its shady past behind?



I've got $h*t to do
User currently offlineclydenairways From Ireland, joined Jan 2007, 1234 posts, RR: 0
Reply 47, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 19826 times:

Quoting A388 (Reply 43):

That might very well be true but the aircraft has been stopped in Gran Canaria, so it's physically there as per the post in this thread and not in Germany.

I can't understand why they landed in such a big international airport like LPA with 24hr police operation. They were just asking to get caught.
The aircraft was flagged as stolen and it's identity doesn't appear to have been covered up.

I would have thought some remote strip in the Sahara would have been a better choice for covert operations.


User currently offlinerfields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7607 posts, RR: 31
Reply 48, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 1 day ago) and read 17188 times:

Quoting blueflyer (Reply 46):
Wouldn't a new registration be enough to leave its shady past behind?

No. Drug enforcement police agencies will have the aircraft in their databases now, and any new registrations or other changes will also be noted.


User currently offlinefalstaff From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 6104 posts, RR: 28
Reply 49, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 16327 times:
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Quoting fcogafa (Reply 40):
The only occupants of the aircraft, a pilot, copilot and a flight attendant

What did they need an FA for?

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 48):
No. Drug enforcement police agencies will have the aircraft in their databases now, and any new registrations or other changes will also be noted

I'm sure somebody will pick it up cheap that doesn't mind the hassle in exchange for a good deal.

Quoting francoflier (Reply 37):
They're also given a LOT of money for the one flight...

I would assume that is the motivational factor for people who get into that line of flying, plus I am sure some of them enjoy the risk.

How do pilots get recruited to get into this line of work?



My mug slaketh over on Falstaff N503
User currently offlineFoxtrot789 From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 3 posts, RR: 0
Reply 50, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 15621 times:

Quoting g500 (Reply 17):
Quoting g500 (Reply 17):
if that Global is empty, yes 2600ft MIGHT do it.... but if you're going from Los Angeles to Tokyo with a full tank of fuel, you're looking at 6500ft minimun to get a Global off the ground...

In this scenario, I bet that Global was empty

This must be some magical Jet-A, I don't know of any fuel that gets burnt off during flight yet the actual weight of it sticks around. A light plane is a light plane, doesn't matter how much fuel it 'had' when it took off.


User currently offlinelweber557 From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 61 posts, RR: 0
Reply 51, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 15240 times:

Quoting falstaff (Reply 49):
What did they need an FA for?

To sample the goods.


User currently offlineg500 From United States of America, joined Oct 2011, 967 posts, RR: 0
Reply 52, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 15190 times:
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Quoting Foxtrot789 (Reply 50):
This must be some magical Jet-A, I don't know of any fuel that gets burnt off during flight yet the actual weight of it sticks around. A light plane is a light plane, doesn't matter how much fuel it 'had' when it took off.

I can take sarcasm, but if you read my post a bit more carefully, you'll notice I'm talking about take off distance, not landing distance


User currently offlinetp1040 From United States of America, joined Apr 2011, 208 posts, RR: 0
Reply 53, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 15072 times:

Anybody up on their Spanish. I think this news story states the plane was hi-jacked by 10 armed gunmen and were headed for Spain.

http://www.entornointeligente.com/ar...-del-Aeroclub-de-Valencia-13082012


User currently offlineacelanzarote From Spain, joined Nov 2005, 831 posts, RR: 0
Reply 54, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 6 hours ago) and read 14265 times:

Small item in English
http://www.islandconnections.eu/1000...43/0/37333/daily-news-article.html

Not much new to report so far...



from the Island with sun and great photo's.. Why not visit Lanzarote
User currently offlinemy1le From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 181 posts, RR: 0
Reply 55, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week ago) and read 13919 times:

Here is a photo of it in the Canary Islands:
http://www.canarias7.es/articulo.cfm?id=271666


User currently offlineYVRLTN From Canada, joined Oct 2006, 2469 posts, RR: 0
Reply 56, posted (2 years 1 month 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 13434 times:

Quoting fcogafa (Reply 40):
The only occupants of the aircraft, a pilot, copilot and a flight attendant were held immediately after landing in Gran Canaria and are waiting for the police court and the Attorney Telde Las Palmas warehouse inspect the appliance and the load . The pilot of the plane is a Colombian national, while the rest of the cabin crew is German

The two pilots were German and the F/A was Austrian. There was a Venezuelan female passenger too who from what I understand left the aircraft in VLN after arriving from Grenada and then travelled to Spain commercially who is now being sought.

Over 1000 kgs of cocaine was discovered on the aircraft disguised as humanitarian aid. 28 persons in Venezuela including airport staff are suspected of being involved.

The destination of the aircraft was Benin (West Africa) but guess it didnt make it that far, so had to land in LPA. The aircraft arrived in VLN at 2300 Saturday. The airport closed at midnight and meanwhile the crew remained with the aircraft and filed a flightplan to Brazil. It then departed at 0226 without warning supposedly heading towards Florida, which is when the theft alert was issued. However, Im not sure if it did actually head to FL, let alone land there, or if it turned heading towards Benin - but could explain the LPA landing as they were aiming to go further as others have guessed but couldnt make it.

Is it too naive to assume the crew may not have been aware of their cargo? I mean Venezuela seems to fairly down the pecking order for dishing out aid...



Follow me on twitter for YVR movements @vernonYVR
User currently offlinepeterinlisbon From Portugal, joined Jan 2006, 523 posts, RR: 0
Reply 57, posted (2 years 1 month 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 13199 times:

Very strange the Argentinean article - yes, it says that the plane was hijacked by ten armed men, and then goes on to give the names and licence numbers of the pilots and flight crew as well as the registration number of the plane (9HFED by the way).

Anyway, I'm sure that the flight plan was a fake. If someone wants to get drugs out of Colombia / Venezuela, the destination would either be the US or Europe. I imagine they chose Palm Beach as the departure airport on the flight plan as they thought that an arrival from there would not be likely to attract as much attention from customs as an arrival from Venezuela (a known drug traficking hotspot). There is probably something about Palm Beach that made it attractive, if anyone cares to look it up they'll probably find that at that time of night it would be uncontrolled and therefore it would be impossible to verify whether on not they had really departed from there. I think where things went wrong for them was that someone noticed them leave in the middle of the night and reported the registration number to interpol, otherwise they might well have gotten away with it. They must have forgotten to bribe someone.

Why Venezuela? I think it's probably a lot easier to get past airport security in Venezuela than in Colombia these days. Just to give you an idea, I once took a shared taxi from Maicao (on the Columbian border) to the city of Maracaibo and we went through no less than 14 checkpoints - local police, army, national guard, state police and national police. We had two Colombians in the back with no documents and it took just 2 or 3 dollars on average to get past each of these roadblocks. The taxi driver was talking about how a guy once got in and said "I don't want to talk to the police or the military and I don't want them to look at what I have in my luggage" and gave him a wad of cash so that he could give out a few notes at each checkpoint.

In Colombia, some of the police may be corrupt, but not all of them and they are definitely not so cheap. When I was living in Central America I read about light aircraft being flown in from Venezuela and abandoned and burnt on country roads (presumably full of drugs). From what I read about this case, there was 1 tonne of drugs. Perhaps in Venezuela 1kg of pure cocaine is worth 1000$, whilst in Europe it's worth 10,000$. So 1000kg (1 tonne) would be worth 1 million dollars in Venezuela, and 10 million dollars in Europe, giving a profit of 9 million dollars for anyone willing to take the risk.

I think as long as the opportunity to make huge sums of money exists, they'll always be someone willing to do that.


User currently offlineAR385 From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 6209 posts, RR: 30
Reply 58, posted (2 years 1 month 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 13118 times:
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Quoting peterinlisbon (Reply 57):
Perhaps in Venezuela 1kg of pure cocaine is worth 1000$, whilst in Europe it's worth 10,000$. So 1000kg (1 tonne) would be worth 1 million dollars in Venezuela, and 10 million dollars in Europe, giving a profit of 9 million dollars for anyone willing to take the risk.

Sorry, no. That´s why Europe is so profitable for the Latin Cartels. A kilo of pure cocaine in Venezuela goes for around $7,000, to $8,000. In Europe, at the port of entry, which is usually Spain, the going rate these days is between $42,000 to $50,000 for the same kilo. More expensive the further you go from Spain.



MGGS
User currently offlineN14AZ From Germany, joined Feb 2007, 2715 posts, RR: 25
Reply 59, posted (2 years 1 month 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 13024 times:

Quoting YVRLTN (Reply 56):
The two pilots were German

I think it won't be long until the German press picks this up and I hope we will learn more about this flight.

Of course there are German criminals but I would be suprised if they found even two German pilots with a certain level of education who would be so stupid to make such a drug flight. That's why I am tempted to believe the story of the hijacking.

However, the next question would be why the pilots didn't notice anything unusual during the flight preparations?


User currently offlineNASCARAirforce From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3178 posts, RR: 4
Reply 60, posted (2 years 1 month 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 12859 times:

Quoting 797 (Thread starter):
How can such a large plane be stolen??? You need at least a 7,000ft runway to land this plane... This is ridiculous!!!

The Global Express series doesn't need 7000 ft of runway. We get them at Orlando Executive Airport and that only has a 6,000 ft runway. The only way maybe it would need 7,000 is if it is fully loaded of fuel and passengers


User currently offlinepeterinlisbon From Portugal, joined Jan 2006, 523 posts, RR: 0
Reply 61, posted (2 years 1 month 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 12728 times:

Quoting AR385 (Reply 58):
Sorry, no. That´s why Europe is so profitable for the Latin Cartels. A kilo of pure cocaine in Venezuela goes for around $7,000, to $8,000. In Europe, at the port of entry, which is usually Spain, the going rate these days is between $42,000 to $50,000 for the same kilo. More expensive the further you go from Spain.

Thanks AR385, I wasn't up to date with the latest prices  . So, that would be a profit of up to 42,000$ PER KILO!!! So up to 35-42 million USD for the whole planeload. Damn!


User currently online797 From Venezuela, joined Aug 2005, 1894 posts, RR: 27
Reply 62, posted (2 years 1 month 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 12560 times:

BREAKING NEWS:

The pilot confessed there were 1,400kg of pure Cocaine in the Red Cross Humanitarian boxes on board the aircraft.

The pilot is Colombian, the Co-Pilot and the FA are German.

The drug comes from an unknown Colombian cartel.




How dumb can they be? Flying a huge corporate jet into a major international airport... there are some things that don't add up.

Here's the link, in Spanish:

http://www.canarias7.es/articulo.cfm?id=271863

797

[Edited 2012-08-15 06:26:35]


Flying isn't dangerous. Crashing is what's dangerous!
User currently offlineNASCARAirforce From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3178 posts, RR: 4
Reply 63, posted (2 years 1 month 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 12226 times:

Quoting YVRLTN (Reply 56):
Is it too naive to assume the crew may not have been aware of their cargo? I mean Venezuela seems to fairly down the pecking order for dishing out aid...

Contrary to many people's beliefs, Venezuela does give out aid and has money - they are a powerful OPEC nation. They offered the U.S. aid after Hurricane Katrina, but Bush refused it starting a lot of his verbal feuds with Chavez.


User currently offlinerfields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7607 posts, RR: 31
Reply 64, posted (2 years 1 month 6 days ago) and read 12037 times:

Quoting YVRLTN (Reply 56):
Is it too naive to assume the crew may not have been aware of their cargo?

I sincerely hope the crew was aware something very likely illegal was being carried.

I mean:

Late night arrival

Middle of the night departure without clearance

Fake flight plan

Destination in an undeveloped area of Africa

My 10 year old grandson can figure out that screams DRUGS in big letters. I hope people a bit better educated than a 10 year old were flying the plane.


User currently offlineAR385 From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 6209 posts, RR: 30
Reply 65, posted (2 years 1 month 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 11987 times:
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Quoting peterinlisbon (Reply 61):
So, that would be a profit of up to 42,000$ PER KILO!!! So up to 35-42 million USD for the whole planeload. Damn!

Actually it would be a lot more than that. The numbers I gave are for pure cocaine kilos. But remember that cocaine is cut. For the rich, let them eat cake, high end customers in London, Madrid or Rome, for example, usually they get theirs at 70% purity. Nobody can snort at 100% purity really or they´ll have a cardio vascular collapse in minutes. But the riff raff, get the "el cheapo" cocaine, which is cut down to anywhere between 70% to 40% purity.

So essentially, that plane was actually carrying close to 60-to 80 million USD of cocaine at street value. You can see why they don´t give a shit if the aircraft is damaged beyond repair on landing or even if they loose a few kilos.



MGGS
User currently offlinecanoecarrier From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2839 posts, RR: 12
Reply 66, posted (2 years 1 month 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 11940 times:

Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 6):
Very easily. During a particularly boring moment a few years ago a bunch of us tried to figure out how to steal an airplane. Our conclusion is that it would be incredibly easy to do...the tricky part is doing it without people realizing you've done it.

It's incredibly easy depending on the aircraft. The FBO I worked at had a key ring with around 100 aircraft keys on it we'd acquired over the years. With few exceptions you could open and start nearly any single or twin GA airplane using those keys.



The beatings will continue until morale improves
User currently offlinefalstaff From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 6104 posts, RR: 28
Reply 67, posted (2 years 1 month 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 11906 times:
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Quoting YVRLTN (Reply 56):
The aircraft arrived in VLN at 2300 Saturday

where did it come from

Quoting N14AZ (Reply 59):
Of course there are German criminals

You bet there are. A buddy of mine is police captain, in Halle, and he keeps busy.

Quoting 797 (Reply 62):
How dumb can they be? Flying a huge corporate jet into a major international airport... there are some things that don't add up.

They may not have wanted to land there, but were running out of fuel. They may have chosen to get caught rather than crash.



My mug slaketh over on Falstaff N503
User currently offlineYVRLTN From Canada, joined Oct 2006, 2469 posts, RR: 0
Reply 68, posted (2 years 1 month 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 11465 times:

Quoting falstaff (Reply 67):
where did it come from

Before VLN? Possibly Grenada.

Quoting 797 (Reply 62):

The pilot is Colombian, the Co-Pilot and the FA are German.

The drug comes from an unknown Colombian cartel.

This seems to be correct. Also seats were removed to make room.

Quoting 797 (Reply 62):
How dumb can they be? Flying a huge corporate jet into a major international airport

I think it was because they were running out of fuel and didnt have a choice other than to ditch. I guess a few years prison is better than dieing.

No idea what fuel was on board of course, but assuming full, what sort of range would this GLEX have with 1400 kgs of cargo + 3 persons? Does anyone know if it actually did land in FL?

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 64):
Middle of the night departure without clearance

This was the dumbest thing. Sure, stay with the plane to make sure no one has a look during the night, but wait until the airport opens again or whenever their flghtplan was to depart. Brazil actually makes sense if Benin was the destination - head out on course, no suspicions, then keep going and its too late for any one to figure anything out where they went - remember AF across the Atlantic off Brazil...



Apparantly the Maltese owner has a 2nd GLEX C-GITG on flight testing at BBD right now. That will be interesting too...

Quoting LXa332 (Reply 23):
The ex-AA 727 (N844AA) that was stolen in Angola comes to mind. It's a bigger airplane, but was never found.

IMO, that aircraft crashed in the Atlantic.

Quoting zkojq (Reply 30):
Unfortunately I can't find the serial number or registration of the Boeing 727 that crashed, but maybe it could be N844AA.

There was quite an extensive thread on PPrune a while back about both 727's, confirmed different c/n in Mali.



Follow me on twitter for YVR movements @vernonYVR
User currently offlineRobK From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2004, 3947 posts, RR: 18
Reply 69, posted (2 years 1 month 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 11453 times:

Quoting falstaff (Reply 67):
where did it come from

If I recall correctly from the flight plan details I looked up, it flew LIEO-GMMN-MGGT the previous day. In English that is Olbia, Italy - Casablanca - Guatemala City.


User currently offlineRobK From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2004, 3947 posts, RR: 18
Reply 70, posted (2 years 1 month 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 11067 times:

Quoting RobK (Reply 69):
If I recall correctly from the flight plan details I looked up, it flew LIEO-GMMN-MGGT the previous day. In English that is Olbia, Italy - Casablanca - Guatemala City.

Turns out I don't "recall correctly" at all! Sorry. Correct info is :

10 Aug LIEE-GMMN-TGPY = Cagliari - Casablanca - Grenada.


User currently offlinefrancoflier From France, joined Oct 2001, 3766 posts, RR: 11
Reply 71, posted (2 years 1 month 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 10995 times:

Quoting peterinlisbon (Reply 57):
Why Venezuela? I think it's probably a lot easier to get past airport security in Venezuela than in Colombia these days.

I think it goes much deeper than that.

It's commonly believed in the region that Chavez has his hands deep in drug trafficking and is in cahoot with the Colombian cartels. The number of drug flights originating from Venezuela or on YV registered airplanes has gone through the roof since he is in power. Not saying they're being openly facilitated, but there's definitely some leniency, averted eyes and corrupted hands.



Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit posting...
User currently offlineStratofish From Germany, joined Sep 2001, 1051 posts, RR: 5
Reply 72, posted (2 years 1 month 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 10745 times:

The story gets freakier day after day:

- Spanish authorities say 1,588 kilos of cocaine have been found on board the plane that police still seem to call a BD7000.

- At least some of the luxury seats have been removed to accommodate the drugs (to save weight/fuel is more likely IMO)

- The Colombian captain confessed of drug trafficking but would not tell much more. Conflicting reports speak of 2 German pilots who tell authorities they were kidnapped at gunpoint and forced to fly to Benin (since no gunmen were found on board this is not that convincing).

- Venezuelan police say they have detained a number of people.

- Venezuelan interior says that particular regional government is corrupt and taken over by drug cartells.

- When the plane made the turn for the Atlantic Interpol was informed of a suspected stolen plane.

- They took off at night on a completely dark runway (dunno if that's great airmenship or just insane)

- One Australian (not Austrian, that was the FA) woman is said to have deplaned the aircraft in Venezuela and is unaccounted for.

- The aircraft came from Trinidad and Tobago although its fllightplans indicate Grenada.

And probably I have missed a thing or two. A very interesting story that will warrant a movie I think  

some sources (all in Spanish- BTW this is the first time I see an aircraft called a "reactor" I sure heard "avion" or "avioneta" or "aeronave" Anyone know if that's venezuelan slang?):

http://www.canarias7.es/articulo.cfm?id=271863
http://www.abc.es/20120815/local-canarias/abci-merce-201208151636.html
http://www.laprovincia.es/sucesos/20...as-coca-cadiz-canarias/476842.html
http://www.abc.es/agencias/noticia.asp?noticia=1230624
http://www.eluniversal.com/sucesos/1...ion-con-droga-detenido-en-canarias
http://noticias.lainformacion.com/po...rcotrafico_yQwkN0lrcOK5rf6vloAuu3/
http://www.abc.es/agencias/noticia.asp?noticia=1231318



The Metro might be the Sub(optimal)way
User currently offlineAR385 From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 6209 posts, RR: 30
Reply 73, posted (2 years 1 month 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 10658 times:
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Quoting Stratofish (Reply 72):
some sources (all in Spanish- BTW this is the first time I see an aircraft called a "reactor" I sure heard "avion" or "avioneta" or "aeronave" Anyone know if that's venezuelan slang?):

No. It´s rather Spanish from Spain. it´s an archaich term, sort of, but correctly used if referred to a plane powered by jet engines. Just like calling any turnbine powered aircraft a "jet".



MGGS
User currently offlineStratofish From Germany, joined Sep 2001, 1051 posts, RR: 5
Reply 74, posted (2 years 1 month 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 10622 times:

Quoting AR385 (Reply 73):
No. It´s rather Spanish from Spain. it´s an archaich term, sort of, but correctly used if referred to a plane powered by jet engines. Just like calling any turnbine powered aircraft a "jet".

Very interesting, thanks.

German press, btw, is very silent and vague about the incident so far.



The Metro might be the Sub(optimal)way
User currently offlinezkojq From New Zealand, joined Sep 2011, 1222 posts, RR: 1
Reply 75, posted (2 years 1 month 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 10595 times:

Quoting clydenairways (Reply 47):
I would have thought some remote strip in the Sahara would have been a better choice for covert operations.

   The lack of radar coverage in africa would also be handy.

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 45):
The sad thing is that this pretty much ends the aircraft's productive career. Once an aircraft is involved in drug smuggling, it is going to be search extensively every time it comes into many countries.

Very sad, particularly since the aircraft was nearly new.

Quoting YVRLTN (Reply 68):
There was quite an extensive thread on PPrune a while back about both 727's, confirmed different c/n in Mali.

Thanks for the clarification, any chance of a link?



Air New Zealand; first to fly the Boeing 787-9. ZK-NZE, NZ103 AKL-SYD, 2014/08/09. I was 83rd to board.
User currently offlineYVRLTN From Canada, joined Oct 2006, 2469 posts, RR: 0
Reply 76, posted (2 years 1 month 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 10590 times:

Quoting Stratofish (Reply 72):
police still seem to call a BD7000.

I guess they just added a 0, it is a BD-700 Global Express.



Follow me on twitter for YVR movements @vernonYVR
User currently offlineLufthansa From Christmas Island, joined May 1999, 3213 posts, RR: 10
Reply 77, posted (2 years 1 month 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 10636 times:

OMG this has got to be one of the most interesting stories on here in years!

Not since BA apparently carried the KGB guys that killed the guy in london by putting Platinum in
his sushi.

So its got me thinking. What exactly would it take to ship a ton of Coke to Africa from South America.
We heard the prices in Europe likelty to be generated. I'll take that a step further and say here in Australia
the street price we pay (my country not me personally, lol) is around $350 - $400 a gram .

So, this got me thinking. What would it take to say legally charter an aircraft to depart from some part of
south America and land it in some uncontrolled remote part of Africa? Unload the cargo and fly back?
Could it be done? Some ex soviet operator? Or is it gonna just be internationally too problematic?
Obviously the aircraft can't go anywhere near the US or Europe. But could it be done? This one has my brain
ticking!


User currently offlinerfields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7607 posts, RR: 31
Reply 78, posted (2 years 1 month 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 10529 times:

Quoting Lufthansa (Reply 77):
What would it take to say legally charter an aircraft to depart from some part of
south America and land it in some uncontrolled remote part of Africa?

Charter operators have limits on where their aircraft are allowed to operate. Many of those are for insurance purposes. If the planes are flown outside the authorized areas, the insurance company imposes fines, or drops the charter company.

Charter operators also know the patterns of illegal smuggling operations, and could spot such a plan and would refuse the charter.

The normal operational method is to buy a used plane and find a crew for a one way - one time trip - planning to abandon the plane after the drugs are removed.

The reason that it would be almost impossible to charter an aircraft and complete such a trip is that it would likely be the end of the charter company and key people involved in running the company might never work in aviation again.

For example, I'm betting that a couple governments are trying to seize this aircraft. It will likely end up belonging to the Spanish government. The owner will get nothing for the plane, and any insurance will not pay off.

Any other airplanes the owner has will be highly suspect for a long time to come. It will limit the ability to charter those aircraft.


User currently offlineLufthansa From Christmas Island, joined May 1999, 3213 posts, RR: 10
Reply 79, posted (2 years 1 month 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 10517 times:

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 78):
For example, I'm betting that a couple governments are trying to seize this aircraft. It will likely end up belonging to the Spanish government

Very interesting. So Spanish Politicians likely just scored a new ride.


User currently offlineAR385 From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 6209 posts, RR: 30
Reply 80, posted (2 years 1 month 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 10427 times:
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There must be many flightz of this type a month that are not caught and reach their African destination successfully. Anyobdy here can estimate the chances of one of these smuggling aircraft provoking a tragedy by colliding with a legitimate commercial airliner that ply those routes daily? Is that a real prospect?


MGGS
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15744 posts, RR: 27
Reply 81, posted (2 years 1 month 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 10395 times:

Quoting Lufthansa (Reply 79):
Very interesting. So Spanish Politicians likely just scored a new ride.

Basically. I don't know what Spanish laws are, but in the US if you're caught racketeering or dealing drugs the cops can seize basically everything: houses, property, bank accounts, etc. It's not too uncommon here to see a nice car owned by the police that has "taken from a drug dealer" or something to that effect on it.

Quoting AR385 (Reply 80):
There must be many flightz of this type a month that are not caught and reach their African destination successfully.

Most likely. Norman's Cay was owned and operated by drug cartels in the late 70s and 80s as a hub to send cocaine to America.

Quoting AR385 (Reply 80):
Anyobdy here can estimate the chances of one of these smuggling aircraft provoking a tragedy by colliding with a legitimate commercial airliner that ply those routes daily?

It's not a big chance. Any close call would bring unwanted attention to the cartels, and in this instance the South Atlantic is less heavily traveled than the North Atlantic.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineLufthansa From Christmas Island, joined May 1999, 3213 posts, RR: 10
Reply 82, posted (2 years 1 month 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 10364 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 81):
It's not a big chance. Any close call would bring unwanted attention to the cartels, and in this instance the South Atlantic is less heavily traveled than the North Atlantic.

would they be flying at full cruising altitude? I'm guessing they turn transponders and things off?

How would such a ghost flight actually work in terms of aircraft operation?


User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15744 posts, RR: 27
Reply 83, posted (2 years 1 month 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 10338 times:

Quoting Lufthansa (Reply 82):
would they be flying at full cruising altitude?

Probably not the whole flight.

Quoting Lufthansa (Reply 82):
I'm guessing they turn transponders and things off?

I'm not sure it would matter since I'm not sure what radar coverage is like in that part of the world. I want to say that Africa and the South Atlantic is pretty spotty.

I'd think the best way to go about it is to use charts to guess where other planes will be and just stay away from those areas and navigate by GPS. And with a business jet I'd think that in the more empty areas of the earth one could just climb above where airliners fly and be virtually alone.

[Edited 2012-08-16 23:20:36]


Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineRobK From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2004, 3947 posts, RR: 18
Reply 84, posted (2 years 1 month 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 10156 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 83):
And with a business jet I'd think that in the more empty areas of the earth one could just climb above where airliners fly and be virtually alone

Dangerous manoeuvre between Brazil coast and Africa. There's a sizeable amount of biz traffic that flies between Brazil and Europe so climbing to 430 (for example) to get above all the commercial traffic routing north/south won't work if there's some biz flying the same routes.


User currently offlineclydenairways From Ireland, joined Jan 2007, 1234 posts, RR: 0
Reply 85, posted (2 years 1 month 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 10123 times:

Quoting Lufthansa (Reply 79):
Very interesting. So Spanish Politicians likely just scored a new ride.

But wasn't the aircraft stolen from the owner? Surely it should go back to him? Unless he was involved with this himself.


User currently offlineacelanzarote From Spain, joined Nov 2005, 831 posts, RR: 0
Reply 86, posted (2 years 1 month 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 10012 times:

It does make you wonder how many times in the past this may have already happened (not with this plane perhaps)


from the Island with sun and great photo's.. Why not visit Lanzarote
User currently offlinezkojq From New Zealand, joined Sep 2011, 1222 posts, RR: 1
Reply 87, posted (2 years 1 month 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 9925 times:

Quoting Lufthansa (Reply 77):
OMG this has got to be one of the most interesting stories on here in years!

Agreed.

Quoting Lufthansa (Reply 77):
So, this got me thinking. What would it take to say legally charter an aircraft to depart from some part of south America and land it in some uncontrolled remote part of Africa? Unload the cargo and fly back?
Could it be done? Some ex soviet operator? Or is it gonna just be internationally too problematic? Obviously the aircraft can't go anywhere near the US or Europe. But could it be done? This one has my brain ticking!

I think a charter company's crew might get suspicious if the passengers tried to bring significant volumes of white powder aboard. Setting up a web of front companies to hide the owners might be a better way to do things.

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 78):
For example, I'm betting that a couple governments are trying to seize this aircraft. It will likely end up belonging to the Spanish government. The owner will get nothing for the plane, and any insurance will not pay off.

But I thought the Global Express that operated the smuggling flight was stolen. It doesn't seem fair to penalise the aircraft's owners when the aircraft wasn't in their possession at the time that the illegal act occurred? Or am I missing something?
 
Quoting Lufthansa (Reply 79):
So Spanish Politicians likely just scored a new ride.

Venezuela did when a Cessna Citation X (CS-DCT) was caught smuggling drugs. The aircraft has been part of the Venezuelan Air Force ever since.



Air New Zealand; first to fly the Boeing 787-9. ZK-NZE, NZ103 AKL-SYD, 2014/08/09. I was 83rd to board.
User currently offlinerfields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7607 posts, RR: 31
Reply 88, posted (2 years 1 month 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 9834 times:

Quoting zkojq (Reply 87):
But I thought the Global Express that operated the smuggling flight was stolen.

There are two reports of the aircraft being stolen - which both are apparently wrong.

The first was by the Venezuelan authorities in the original post on this thread - issued because the aircraft departed the airport during closed hours without clearance. That appears to be an error because the original crew appears to have taken off in the aircraft.

The second is the report the crew arrested in the Canaries said they were hijacked by ten armed men and forced to fly with the drug cargo. They didn't say how the men got off the plane.

An owner of an aircraft or a vehicle can avoid seizure in the US if it is used in drug smuggling - IF they can prove that it was actually stolen and reported as stolen promptly. So far there is nothing to indicate this aircraft was reported as stolen by the owner when it left Italy.

Right now the aircraft owner has bigger worries because authorities are likely investigating him as being a major part of the drug smuggling operation.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 83):
I'm not sure it would matter since I'm not sure what radar coverage is like in that part of the world. I want to say that Africa and the South Atlantic is pretty spotty.

There is no radar coverage for ocean crossings anywhere in the world once planes get a a couple hundred miles offshore (and many land areas also which are very sparsely populated).

The system depends upon aircraft reporting their positions and some newer technology which allows the aircraft to report its position automatically. This lack of coverage was a big part of the seven plus hour delay after AF447 went down before SAR authorities were notified of a possibly missing aircraft.

Quoting AR385 (Reply 80):
Anyobdy here can estimate the chances of one of these smuggling aircraft provoking a tragedy by colliding with a legitimate commercial airliner that ply those routes daily?
Quoting Lufthansa (Reply 82):
would they be flying at full cruising altitude? I'm guessing they turn transponders and things off?

The chances of a collision are extremely remote. There has been one air to air collision in an area without active radar coverage - GOL 1907 and the Embraer Legacy. That took a series of unfortunate mistakes and ultra-precise GPS navigation by both aircraft along a pre-defined airway. (There are still a lot of areas over land around the world not covered by active ATC radar.)

The drug planes would fly at most efficient altitude once they got out over the ocean. No pilot wants to test their ditching and swimming skills. It would be safe to turn on the transponders once outside the range of land based radar which would activate the TCAS if a potential conflict occurred.

Also, the routes of airliners and bizjets are well known and can be crossed quickly. It is military aircraft they have to watch out for encountering - not for risk of collision but for possible discovery and being tracked.

Brazil operates 8 R-99 AWACS aircraft (ERJ-140 mod) and 17 RC-95/P-95 recon aircraft (EMB-110 mod) along with some P-3 Orions. I don't know where all of them operate from, but like there is some coverage of possible smuggling routes.

Mexico's three P-99/R-99 aircraft spot drug smuggler aircraft trying to fly under radar between South America and northern Mexico/ the US each month.

[Edited 2012-08-17 07:37:12]

User currently offlineblueflyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4002 posts, RR: 2
Reply 89, posted (2 years 1 month 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 9535 times:
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Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 48):
Drug enforcement police agencies will have the aircraft in their databases now, and any new registrations or other changes will also be noted.

Just curious in case I want to buy a drug mule on the cheap or something, how would Australian police know that my shiny new N-0DRG bird used to be registered C-OKAN three shell companies ago. Who is going to tell them?

[Edited 2012-08-17 13:33:21]


I've got $h*t to do
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15744 posts, RR: 27
Reply 90, posted (2 years 1 month 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 9406 times:

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 88):
There is no radar coverage for ocean crossings anywhere in the world once planes get a a couple hundred miles offshore (and many land areas also which are very sparsely populated).

I think a lot of Africa is uncovered by radar. Disappearing probably isn't that difficult.

Quoting blueflyer (Reply 89):
Just curious in case I want to buy a drug mule on the cheap or something, how would Australian police know that my shiny new N-0DRG bird used to be registered C-OKAN three shell companies ago. Who is going to tell them?

Serial numbers.

In a not entirely similar case, a while back German authorities seized a Mercedes that was supposedly stolen by an American soldier in 1945. Unfortunately the guy who the car was seized from had just bought the car at auction for upwards of $3 million. The point is that tracking things across time and space is possible.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlinetdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 79
Reply 91, posted (2 years 1 month 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 9277 times:

Quoting blueflyer (Reply 89):
Just curious in case I want to buy a drug mule on the cheap or something, how would Australian police know that my shiny new N-0DRG bird used to be registered C-OKAN three shell companies ago. Who is going to tell them?

The data plate stuck to the airplane. There aren't that many jet aircraft in the world; it's very easy to trace their history backwards through the regulators because ever time they've ever changed registrations is recorded. Even if the regulators are doing a bad job, the OEM's and insurers keep a very close eye on their serial numbers/variable numbers.

Tom.


User currently offlinerfields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7607 posts, RR: 31
Reply 92, posted (2 years 1 month 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 9242 times:

Quoting blueflyer (Reply 89):
how would Australian police know that my shiny new N-0DRG bird used to be registered C-OKAN three shell companies ago. Who is going to tell them?

Drug enforcement agencies, customs agencies and international police agencies keep databases of aircraft and ships used in drug trafficing, human smuggling and other illegal activities. They share information.

Just as we can access databases which track an aircraft history through various owners and registrations - the police can do so, and they flag the questionable ones.

Now your local customs and police at a small international airport might not have this particular aircraft in their current 'hot file', but if they enter it into the national database search - it will pop-up as a suspicious aircraft.


User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 14026 posts, RR: 62
Reply 93, posted (2 years 1 month 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 8834 times:

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 92):
Quoting blueflyer (Reply 89):
how would Australian police know that my shiny new N-0DRG bird used to be registered C-OKAN three shell companies ago. Who is going to tell them?

Drug enforcement agencies, customs agencies and international police agencies keep databases of aircraft and ships used in drug trafficing, human smuggling and other illegal activities. They share information.

Just as we can access databases which track an aircraft history through various owners and registrations - the police can do so, and they flag the questionable ones.

But id the aircraft got confiscated and I buy it from a police auction, I should be ok.
A company I worked for used to buy aircraft and helicopters from government auctions, either because the original owner was bankrupt and his property got auctioned off to pay for his debts or because the aircraft had been confiscated by the police as having been used in some crime.
I remember the case of a Mooney, which crashlanded on a field. The farmer got suspicious when the pilot, who ran out of fuel, didn´t want to have the cops called, but insteadoffered a bundle of cash to cover the damages, so he called them anyway. The pilot tried to make a runner, but got arrested and the cops found the aircraft (coming from Poland) full of marijuana.
The company I worked for was asked by the police to take the aircraft (which was damaged during the forced landing) apart and to truck it to their hangar in SXF. The the plane was put in a company hangar and sealed as evidence. After the trial the MRO bought it in the auction and used it as a project to keep the mechanics busy whenever there was no other work. When it was repaired, it got sold to somebody.

Jan


User currently offlineYVRLTN From Canada, joined Oct 2006, 2469 posts, RR: 0
Reply 94, posted (2 years 1 month 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 8245 times:

Quoting zkojq (Reply 75):
Thanks for the clarification, any chance of a link?

I dont think anet allows links to that website, google pprune 727 mali & 727 angola and you will find the threads, very fascinating reading if you follow up the other links, figure out who some of the posters are and follow up / google some of the names mentioned (Padilla & Irwin), particularly in the Fly Africa forum. Heres a couple of links
http://www.flyafrica.info/forums/sho...72-quot-The-727-that-vanished-quot
http://www.flyafrica.info/forums/sho...t-The-727-that-vanished-quot/page3

Possibly ex LH bird in Mali http://yorksranter.wordpress.com/200.../23/mystery-jet-update-malian-727/
IMO, Angola was either a repo went wrong or stolen for a drugs flight - either way it crashed into the ocean.

Quoting AR385 (Reply 80):
There must be many flightz of this type a month that are not caught and reach their African destination successfully.

I think so, no offense to your country but for example the number of bizjets registered in Mexico and ever changing owners points to some drug traffic.

Quoting Lufthansa (Reply 82):
How would such a ghost flight actually work in terms of aircraft operation?

Like this one, disguise the cargo as something genuine. I have just done my air cargo security refresher training and they focus on looking out for cargo which disguises bombs, stuff like fake peppers, cans of tuna amid real ones and so on. Far more likely to happen hiding drugs than explosives IMO.

Where it went wrong was taking off when the airport was closed and not following flightplans. Had they taken off within operational hours and headed out towards Brazil as filed, I bet nothing would ever have happened. I cant imagine the crew being that "dumb", so it may lead some credibility to the plane being hijacked or taken over - where they went is another question of course, Im not sure if anyone at LPA was expecting them to arrive, its possible they could have jumped as the plane slowed down off the runway like they did out of a Koda 707 at SEN a few years ago (they were spotted there).



Follow me on twitter for YVR movements @vernonYVR
User currently offlinezkojq From New Zealand, joined Sep 2011, 1222 posts, RR: 1
Reply 95, posted (2 years 1 month 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 7928 times:

Quoting YVRLTN (Reply 94):
Heres a couple of links

Thankyou so much - they were a very interesting read.



Air New Zealand; first to fly the Boeing 787-9. ZK-NZE, NZ103 AKL-SYD, 2014/08/09. I was 83rd to board.
User currently offlinemy1le From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 181 posts, RR: 0
Reply 96, posted (2 years 1 month 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 7799 times:

Any idea when the aircraft will be returned?

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