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Why No DL 744 Service To LHR During The Olympics?  
User currently offlineAV8AJET From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1343 posts, RR: 1
Posted (2 years 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 13883 times:

Just curious why DL didn't operate any B744's to LHR during the peak times to and from the Olympics? I remember back when ATL had them that even BA added B744 service with an additional B763ER service from LGW. I'm just surprised and did any other airline servicing LHR up gauge aircraft during this period?


"To fly or not to fly there is no question!"
36 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7432 posts, RR: 17
Reply 1, posted (2 years 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 13849 times:

Given the fact that it's a O.W. hub and not a SkyTeam hub I don't really think such an upgage was necessary. However, I haven't really heard anything about any other upgages so any other upgage could be possible.


次は、渋谷、渋谷。出口は、右側です。電車とホームの間は広く開いておりますので、足元に注意下さい。
User currently offlinespiritair97 From United States of America, joined Jan 2011, 1231 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (2 years 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 13708 times:

I read somewhere that there really weren't any upguaged flights this year. I also knew some people who traveled to London and they said that everybody (locals) had left England because they were told that it would be so crowded and there was hardly a crowd. This was outside of the Olympi Village, but still.

User currently offlinedoug_Or From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3402 posts, RR: 3
Reply 3, posted (2 years 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 13544 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 1):

Given the fact that it's a O.W. hub and not a SkyTeam hub I don't really think such an upgage was necessary.

Given Olympic traffic would be O&D not connecting it doesn't really matter whose hub it is, does it?

Quoting spiritair97 (Reply 2):

I read somewhere that there really weren't any upguaged flights this year.

I've heard the Olympics tourists pretty much just displaced the normal summer tourists who are staying away to avoid the expected Olympic crowds.



When in doubt, one B pump off
User currently offlinebmibaby737 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 1806 posts, RR: 9
Reply 4, posted (2 years 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 13056 times:

Airlines were told over a year ago that they would not be allowed to bring in larger aircraft or any additional flights to those already scheduled at Heathrow.

Flew out of Heathrow this week to Geneva and the airport and flights were dead, and these were peak travel times. London was also very quiet.


User currently offlineGCPET From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2012, 204 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (2 years 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 12920 times:

Quoting bmibaby737 (Reply 4):
Flew out of Heathrow this week to Geneva and the airport and flights were dead, and these were peak travel times. London was also very quiet.

I also flew out of Heathrow this week. No delay's what so ever and coming back we didn't even have to go in the holds! This was at peak times of the day too so maybe Heathrow is coping very well with the Olympics!

GCPET



If it's not Boeing, I'm not going!
User currently offlinebobloblaw From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1709 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (2 years 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 12886 times:
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What DL had potential to gain would have to offset the loss of downgauging 744s to Japan in the summer. Shouldn't call it upgauging. It should be called a swap. Somewhere else there would be a downgauging.

User currently offlineskymiler From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 529 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (2 years 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 12720 times:

I think that the answer is "no demand"!

I received a notification from DL offering a very aggressive business class fare to LHR during the Olympics. Only catch was that I had to book by 4 July!

As an expat Brit, I would have taken it in a heartbeat, had my schedule permitted.



I love to fly, and it shows!
User currently offlineSW733 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6321 posts, RR: 9
Reply 8, posted (2 years 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 12439 times:

A good friend of mine decided to head to the US Women's football game and flew over on Delta from MSP-LHR. Said the flight was only about 75% full, as opposed to the same flight last year that was 100% full during the same week (ironically, he went two years in a row during the same week). I have heard similar stories over the last couple weeks.

User currently offlineskipness1E From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2007, 3236 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (2 years 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 12402 times:

Quoting GCPET (Reply 5):
we didn't even have to go in the holds! This was at peak times of the day

What??? That sounds very odd, if you don't mind me asking, what was the flight?


User currently offlinejumpjets From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2012, 807 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (2 years 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 12148 times:

Quoting bmibaby737 (Reply 4):
London was also very quiet.

Not really on topic but just had an e mail from the London transport authorities which said:

'During the Games, the Tube carried over 60 million passengers, an increase of 30 per cent compared to last year; that’s more passengers than at any time in our 149 year history. The DLR carried over 6 million passengers, an increase of over 100 per cent compared to last year and London Overground carried almost 6 million passengers, an increase of 47 per cent compared to last year.'

That's roughly transporting the whole population of New Zealand or Ireland every day that the games were on.

Don't know where they all were if you found London quiet, and it sounds like they weren't at heathrow either!


User currently offlinepualani From United States of America, joined May 2004, 301 posts, RR: 6
Reply 11, posted (2 years 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 11775 times:

I non revved there on 7/27 on AA and there was 60+ seats open. I can attest as to how crowded the Tube was...PACKED and no AC !! Coming home (also on AA) I was the last NR to get on.


pualani


User currently onlineCXfirst From Norway, joined Jan 2007, 3058 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (2 years 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 11516 times:

Quoting jumpjets (Reply 10):
'During the Games, the Tube carried over 60 million passengers, an increase of 30 per cent compared to last year; that’s more passengers than at any time in our 149 year history. The DLR carried over 6 million passengers, an increase of over 100 per cent compared to last year and London Overground carried almost 6 million passengers, an increase of 47 per cent compared to last year.'

I've also heard that the lack of ordinary summer tourists offset (at least partly) the incoming Olympics tourists. So, I wouldn't be surprised if Heathrow didn't see much more than normal, as the additional passengers came through other London airports. As for public transport in London, I would hazard to guess that most of the additional passengers were not overseas passengers, but local population travelling into the centre, which combined with overseas passengers gave huge increases.

-CXfirst



From Norway, live in Australia
User currently offlineonebadlt123 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 51 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (2 years 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 11063 times:

I was thinking we would upgrade our flights as well (UA) but after I sat down, and started working my usual Europe routes I realized a lot of our flights still were 777 and 757 service to London. No changes or no upgrades. Meh

User currently offlineordflier From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 174 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (2 years 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 11028 times:

Generally during an Olympic Games one will find much lower than normal air traffic *while* the Games are active. The 3 week period leading up to, and generally the 1st week after the Games will be busy due to the arrival and departure of media, athletes, support structure, members of the Olympic Family, and of course spectators. Once the Games start traffic generally takes an abrupt turn downward unless the airport(s) and carriers(s) have strong historical connection traffic which can compensate.

During the Games, while not all business suspends, many locals tend to go on holiday to avoid what may be expected to be the challenge of local transport, security barriers, venue traffic, etc and thus drives down business air traffic during the games. Budget conscious tourism also takes a relative hit during the Games as hotel prices generally are inflated and many of the brand name hotels will be at capacity. This is especially true is medium sized cities.

If an up gauge in equipment was warranted, it would have occurred generally in the day or two at the conclusion when the bulk of the departure traffic operates. Given London's already strong transportation system with multiple airports as well as the high number of departures on all carriers that currently operate out of London to North America it is doubtful that any additional capacity would have been needed - or warranted.

[Edited 2012-08-13 08:03:48]


ORDflier
User currently offlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7565 posts, RR: 28
Reply 15, posted (2 years 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 10914 times:

Keep in mind many companies where avoiding normal business travel to London during the games due to perceived logistical issues, security, and expensive hotel rooms. So "normal" business travel likely dropped during the games for such that could be scheduled before or after the games.

User currently offlineGCT64 From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2007, 1389 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (2 years 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 10524 times:

There have been a few upgauges today (13 Aug) during Olympic departure day, but not many:

SU = 2 x A330s (normally A320/1)
LX = 1 x A330 (normally A320/1)

That looks to be about it.



Flown in: A30B,A306,A310,A319,A320,A321,A332,A333,A343,A346,BA11,BU31,B190, B461,B462,B463,(..50 types..),VC10,WESX
User currently offlinepnwtraveler From Canada, joined Jun 2007, 2235 posts, RR: 12
Reply 17, posted (2 years 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 10072 times:

Today is supposed to be a massive day at LHR with over 100,000 passengers transiting. But many of those bodies that are moving are also flying to nearby Europe on smaller more frequent aircraft.


That being said, in addition to not as many regular tourists not coming during this period as said above, Brits aren't traveling through Heathrow in normal numbers because everyone feared chaos. Brits that left London to escape the anticipated congestion drove, took the train and left from alternative airports as well.
So I think the cross Atlantic flights are probably flying fuller (it has still been a bit softer than usual before the Olympics) but I don't think many "special" flights have been added or major upgrades have taken place.


User currently offlineGCPET From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2012, 204 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (2 years 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 9868 times:

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 9):

What??? That sounds very odd, if you don't mind me asking, what was the flight?

Came back on the BA276 from Hyderabad around 12 on Saturday  

GCPET



If it's not Boeing, I'm not going!
User currently offlineFI642 From Monaco, joined Mar 2005, 1079 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (2 years 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 9849 times:

Quoting skymiler (Reply 7):

That is exactly it, lack of demand.



737MAX, Cool Planes for the Worlds Coolest Airline.
User currently offlineairbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8310 posts, RR: 10
Reply 20, posted (2 years 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 9478 times:

Quoting jumpjets (Reply 10):
Don't know where they all were if you found London quiet, and it sounds like they weren't at heathrow either!

They were in the Tube going to and from the Olympic venues, rather than walking around the typical tourist sights 
Manny of them probably stayed outside of London where lodging is cheaper and took public transportation in and out. That's what usually happens during the Olympics in any city and in part why there is so much concern about Rio, because as I understand it the public transportation system in Rio is not on par with the likes of other hosting cities.


User currently offlinegigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 21, posted (2 years 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 5553 times:

The actual reality is there are flights to/from 3 major airports to just about every corner of the planet.

Atlanta has one airport, that (in 1996) was sparsely served internationally - a far cry from the routes there are today. Most itineraries were connecting ones at the time, London service was only to LGW, and as a result upgauging of flights from major carriers made a lot of sense.

NS


User currently offlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7471 posts, RR: 17
Reply 22, posted (2 years 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 4972 times:

Upgrading flights to LHR with larger aircraft cannot be carried out on a whim but requires the prior authority of the slot coordinator, Airport Coordination Ltd. As their web site clearly illustrates the number of available slots varies from hour to hour. This variation at what for most of the day is a slot bound airport in part reflects variations in the aircraft size between different slots. Different minimum separation distances are required between both arriving and departing aircraft depending on the sizes of consecutive aircraft. Slot availability is also dependent upon the terminal's ability to handle the number of arriving and departing passengers and the availability of aircraft stands of a suitable size. Substututing a 744 for a smaller aircraft could potential cause problems on all three counts.

Quoting bmibaby737 (Reply 4):
London was also very quiet.

Not on the two occasions I ventured into London - once on a weekday, once on a Saturday - during the Olympics. For example on the Saturday visit there were passengers standing in my carriage for the whole of the 90 minute terminus-to-terminus homeward train journey. This was not a unique occurrence but it is far from usual. Similarly, as is confirmed by the Transport for London passenger figures referred to by jumpjets in Reply 10, all public transport within London was, while I was there very crowded. Clearly a 30 per cent year-on-year passenger growth on the tube to 60 million passengers creating the busiest ever period in 149 years in incompatible with any suggestion that London was "very quiet". Or did those 60 million passengers all stay underground?


User currently offlineAV8AJET From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1343 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (2 years 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 4926 times:

Quoting VV701 (Reply 22):
Upgrading flights to LHR with larger aircraft cannot be carried out on a whim but requires the prior authority of the slot coordinator, Airport Coordination Ltd. As their web site clearly illustrates the number of available slots varies from hour to hour. This variation at what for most of the day is a slot bound airport in part reflects variations in the aircraft size between different slots. Different minimum separation distances are required between both arriving and departing aircraft depending on the sizes of consecutive aircraft. Slot availability is also dependent upon the terminal's ability to handle the number of arriving and departing passengers and the availability of aircraft stands of a suitable size. Substututing a 744 for a smaller aircraft could potential cause problems on all three counts.

That is very helpful thank you very much for the information!



"To fly or not to fly there is no question!"
User currently offlineskipness1E From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2007, 3236 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (2 years 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 4862 times:

CENTRAL London was quiet, a very different story out East believe me!

25 lucky777 : From the sound of it, it would appear an equipment downguage might have been the better call for quite a few airlines. One would have to assume the Ol
26 Post contains links Dizzy777 : A further point to this is that, aside from slot provisions, there is a maximum pax inbound and out bound per hour at most international airports (in
27 jimbobjoe : What was the fare?
28 skymiler : I believe (and this may be touch off, so I apologise if wrong) about $US 1750 rt.
29 Post contains links VV701 : This is correct. As I had altready pointed out At LHR these restrictions are: T1: 1,500 domestic, 930 CTA and 1,600 arriving and 2,200 departing pass
30 jumpjets : There may not have been a DL 744 in town for the Olympics, but I read that QF sent a specially painted 744 to STN to pick up the Ozzie team - not sure
31 Post contains links VV701 : This is being reported by the BBC: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-19239328
32 Post contains links VV701 : The Qantas Source at http://www.theqantassource.com/ is reporting that the aircraft concerned was 744 VH-OJU that operated BNE-LAX as QF15 and then L
33 Post contains links jumpjets : If I recall correctly from the article where I saw the story [but can't now remember where] the kangaroo on the tail had been given a pair of boxing
34 rutankrd : Stansted has taken many/most of the Olympian charter flights Various Russian State Il96 /Il62M and IL76, Azerbaijan 767/and smaller biz jets, the QF 7
35 VV701 : Thanks for posting the photo. The accompanying text says: "Anthony Jackson caught this great shot of the Boeing 747 (registration VH-OJU)" which is t
36 AV8AJET : Would Love to see DL serve LHR from ATL on the B744 but not sure I'll ever see it.
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