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St Cloud, MN Wants Air Service  
User currently offlineWA707atMSP From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 2264 posts, RR: 8
Posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 4785 times:

Today's Minneapolis Star Tribune has an article about St Cloud's desire to get scheduled air service. Their targets are a regional airline to fly to Chicago, and / or a larger airline for 3x week service to Phoenix.

Link to article:

http://www.startribune.com/local/166060656.html

Mesaba served STC-MSP with Saabs for a long time, but the route was suspended a couple of years ago.

Even though I'm generally in favor of government support for air service to smaller communities, I think subsidized service to St. Cloud would be a waste of money. At non-rush hour times, MSP is just 1 1/2 hours away from STC, and even at rush hour, it is not much more than a two hour drive.

Before the recession, I thought STC might become a secondary airport for the Twin Cities area, like FNT's role as a secondary Detroit airport, once the area between the two cities became built up. However, the recession has hit the outlying suburbs of the Twin Cities much harder than it hit suburbs closer to downtown, so I think it will be a long time before there are enough people living closer to STC than to MSP to support scheduled flights.


Seaholm Maples are #1!
35 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15836 posts, RR: 27
Reply 1, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 4769 times:

Quoting WA707atMSP (Thread starter):
Even though I'm generally in favor of government support for air service to smaller communities, I think subsidized service to St. Cloud would be a waste of money.

I hate it but am okay with it on lower levels. Don't use federal money, but if the townspeople get together and decide they want to pay someone to fly there, that's fine with me.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7970 posts, RR: 19
Reply 2, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 4755 times:

I highly doubt US would want to run this route. If they can't fill a 319 in STC (it sounds like a very small market) they won't run it to PHX.

I see US doing more of a routing to DCA or PHL....maybe. MAYBE.



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User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15836 posts, RR: 27
Reply 3, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 4743 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 2):
I highly doubt US would want to run this route. If they can't fill a 319 in STC (it sounds like a very small market) they won't run it to PHX.

They're talking about Allegiant without using the name.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineKarlB737 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3145 posts, RR: 10
Reply 4, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 4671 times:

Quoting WA707atMSP (Thread starter):
Their targets are a regional airline to fly to Chicago

How about Lakeshore Express. That would give them turbo prop service to MDW.

http://lakeshoreexpress.com/


User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7970 posts, RR: 19
Reply 5, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 4626 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 3):
They're talking about Allegiant without using the name.

That makes better sense. AZA wouldn't be a surprising route. (They should start referring to AZA as Mesa so I don't get confused)



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User currently offlineallegiantflyer From United States of America, joined Mar 2012, 200 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 4514 times:

I bet Allegiant is already thinking about it  

User currently offlineTWA902fly From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 3129 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 4498 times:

Maybe F9 to DEN?

'902



life wasn't worth the balance, or the crumpled paper it was written on
User currently offlinebobloblaw From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1725 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 4419 times:

Other than allegiant I don't see any airline coming to STC. STC has a good airport already. It's called MSP.

User currently offlinetype-rated From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 4419 times:

STC is a nice little airport. There are a lot of small towns surrounding it so maybe someone could even go as far as putting a CR200 in there or a Q400 for daily service to ORD or MDW? Delta has a stronghold at MSP so fares out of there would be high.
But the question is who in the area of STC would be willing to fund such an operation? .

Back in 1974 the Intracollegiate Flying Association had their annual meet in STC.


User currently offlinesunking737 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2058 posts, RR: 9
Reply 10, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 4392 times:

Everytime SY flies into STC with flights to IFP, they are full. Granted its not alot of flights but still.


Just an MSPAVGEEK
User currently offlinePanAm788 From United States of America, joined Sep 2008, 292 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 4381 times:

A better idea would be rail service, but our (MN's) brilliant government invested millions in a commuter rail line that stops just short of St. Cloud (the 3rd biggest non-MSP area city in the state). And now since the line isn't getting enough ridership (big surprise, right?) they suspended the plans to extend the line to St. Cloud. With a connecting light rail in Minneapolis, it would've been around a 1 hour 30 minute ride or so to the MSP airport, making there really no need for an airport in St. Cloud.


You know nothing Jon Snow
User currently offlineslcdeltarumd11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3640 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 4197 times:

I would think a daily rj to ord would be better and help local business more than allegiant

User currently offlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7771 posts, RR: 27
Reply 13, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 4029 times:

Quoting WA707atMSP (Thread starter):
Today's Minneapolis Star Tribune has an article about St Cloud's desire to get scheduled air service. Their targets are a regional airline to fly to Chicago, and / or a larger airline for 3x week service to Phoenix.

Oh the Star-Trib, another story that is barely good enough to use as fish wrap.

Claiming DL has jettisoned 50 seater, yet smaller carriers still rely on them like Skywest..... Ok.

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 12):
I would think a daily rj to ord would be better and help local business more than allegiant

Obviously STC wants air service, every airport wants air service. Its the airport management's job to recruit air service. There are always lots of "talks" or "meetings" or "proposals, and "grants". Let's see what actually sticks.

Small airports fall hand-over fist to get G4 or now whatever F9 is turning in to, to bring in airplanes and draw bodies through the airport. Passengers = money = concession fees = FAA funding and grant money.

G4 does not help the local business commuity. A network carrier will though. The question is that STC yes could land ORD service, but how many are just going to use MSP instead?

Quoting KarlB737 (Reply 4):
How about Lakeshore Express. That would give them turbo prop service to MDW.

Lakeshore appears to have no desire to expand their charter operation outside of their current MDW-PLN service. STC wouldn't fit the bill, and its really just a niche charter service.


User currently offlinepoint2point From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 2766 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 3983 times:

Quoting TWA902fly (Reply 7):

Maybe F9 to DEN?

Well, since there are $$$$$ incentives offered, I would think maybe....

Although F9 does seem to be maybe running low on birds lately for these sort of flights? A Republic E190 would work well here, but the E190s seem to be going going and going from the Republic fleet.


 


User currently offlineMSPNWA From United States of America, joined Apr 2009, 2024 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 3819 times:

I'm surprised that G4 hasn't come into STC. Nice new terminal. Lower costs. People say that STC already has an airport (MSP), but I think of it the opposite way. STC will draw people away from MSP. If you're from the north and west suburbs, STC is not much farther away and is an easier drive. Plus, the ease of using a small airport like STC, and the expensive fares at MSP seem to make it a great candidate for G4. Maybe some day.

User currently offlineRWA380 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3461 posts, RR: 5
Reply 16, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 3754 times:

If money is involved, I'm sure SeaPort would be sniffing at the subsidized CHI service, until the cash ran out, then they'll collect their toys and go home.  Big grin

[Edited 2012-08-15 03:20:25]


AA AC AQ AS BD BN CO CS DL EA EZ HA HP KL KN MP MW NK NW OO OZ PA PS QX RC RH RW SA TG TW UA US VS WA WC WN
User currently offlineWA707atMSP From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 2264 posts, RR: 8
Reply 17, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 3648 times:

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 13):
Oh the Star-Trib, another story that is barely good enough to use as fish wrap.

Using the Strib as fish wrap would be an insult to whatever fish was being wrapped. The factual errors in the Strib, and the Strib's pervasive anti - DL bias (and anti-NW bias pre merger) never cease to irritate me.

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 15):
I'm surprised that G4 hasn't come into STC. Nice new terminal. Lower costs. People say that STC already has an airport (MSP), but I think of it the opposite way. STC will draw people away from MSP. If you're from the north and west suburbs, STC is not much farther away and is an easier drive. Plus, the ease of using a small airport like STC, and the expensive fares at MSP seem to make it a great candidate for G4. Maybe some day.

The markets G4 would target are already very competitive. SY, US, and WN all fly MSP-PHX / LAS with at most one stop, and Spirit is also in MSP-LAS. Competition from these airlines keeps DL's fares reasonable. Because fares from MSP to PHX and LAS are so low already, G4 has less room to undercut the existing airlines.

As I mentioned in my original post, the northwest suburbs of the Twin Cities, which STC would potentially draw from, have been hit much harder by the recession than other parts of the Twin Cities area. Housing starts in this area have literally come to an almost complete halt, and many of the people who own homes are underwater. Even if people in the northwest part of the Twin Cities would like to drive to STC to save on a trip to LAS or PHX, if they are worried about being foreclosed, they will not spend the money on a trip.



Seaholm Maples are #1!
User currently offlineMountainFlyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 477 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 3600 times:

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 15):
STC will draw people away from MSP. If you're from the north and west suburbs, STC is not much farther away and is an easier drive. Plus, the ease of using a small airport like STC, and the expensive fares at MSP seem to make it a great candidate for G4.

I highly doubt it. Most people who live north of the Twin Cities will drive farther than 2 hours to get to MSP for air service. DLH already has G4, and it's often cheaper to drive to MSP to get on WN. If people from HIB, BRD, BJI, and DLH already drive to MSP because of the high airfares in those places, I doubt STC is going to be any different being closer to MSP than any of the above.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 1):
Don't use federal money, but if the townspeople get together and decide they want to pay someone to fly there, that's fine with me.

Exactly. Being so close to MSP, I don't see the need for public subsidies to fund a route that would serve a very small amount of people.

Quoting PanAm788 (Reply 11):
With a connecting light rail in Minneapolis, it would've been around a 1 hour 30 minute ride or so to the MSP airport, making there really no need for an airport in St. Cloud.

I assume you're talking about the NorthStar commuter line. It is fairly handy, especially since you can use the Park and Ride in Elk River (only 30 miles from St. Cloud), and park there for free up to seven days. However, the train schedule is not designed for getting people to the airport. You have to take the NorthStar into downtown Minneapolis, and then catch the light rail to MSP. The light rail runs fairly regularly nearly all day, but the NorthStar schedule is heavily geared towards commuters going into Minneapolis in the morning and out at night, so unless your flight schedule coincides, the 1.5 hour train ride could turn into an all-day thing just to catch your flight.



SA-227; B1900; Q200; Q400; CRJ-2,7,9; 717; 727-2; 737-3,4,5,7,8,9; 747-2; 757-2,3; 767-3,4; MD-90; A319, 320; DC-9; DC-1
User currently onlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23307 posts, RR: 20
Reply 19, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 3558 times:

Quoting MountainFlyer (Reply 18):
If people from HIB, BRD, BJI, and DLH already drive to MSP because of the high airfares in those places, I doubt STC is going to be any different being closer to MSP than any of the above.

How much of that driving is for price reasons and how much is for schedule reasons? I've been traveling to BRD for business, and the fares to BRD are sometimes cheaper, but with just a couple of daily flights, flying to MSP and driving from there is generally much more convenient.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineMountainFlyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 477 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 3509 times:

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 19):
I've been traveling to BRD for business, and the fares to BRD are sometimes cheaper, but with just a couple of daily flights, flying to MSP and driving from there is generally much more convenient.

Even more reason why STC is likely to be a bust since it is closer.



SA-227; B1900; Q200; Q400; CRJ-2,7,9; 717; 727-2; 737-3,4,5,7,8,9; 747-2; 757-2,3; 767-3,4; MD-90; A319, 320; DC-9; DC-1
User currently onlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23307 posts, RR: 20
Reply 21, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 3486 times:

Quoting MountainFlyer (Reply 20):
Even more reason why STC is likely to be a bust since it is closer.

. . . assuming the service is to MSP. But why would we assume that?



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26815 posts, RR: 75
Reply 22, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 3478 times:

Extending the train is a better idea. Use those EAS or local funds to finish the train line and you have both a solid commuter service and a reliable connection to MSP.


Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineFlighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 8773 posts, RR: 3
Reply 23, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 3413 times:

Quoting PanAm788 (Reply 11):
A better idea would be rail service, but our (MN's) brilliant government invested millions in a commuter rail line that stops just short of St. Cloud (the 3rd biggest non-MSP area city in the state).

Excellent point. The MSP Northstar rail line is notorious for being one of the most wrong-headed rail services ever built. The cost per commuter is $48 each way or something like that.

According to wiki, they forecast greater than 100% farebox return ratio if they simply extend the line to St. Cloud. It is too small for federal funding, but this is one of those rare cases where the incremental cost would pay for itself.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 22):
Use those EAS or local funds to finish the train line and you have both a solid commuter service and a reliable connection to MSP.

Ding.

[Edited 2012-08-15 10:48:49]

User currently offlineacidradio From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 1875 posts, RR: 10
Reply 24, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 3341 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting MountainFlyer (Reply 18):
I highly doubt it. Most people who live north of the Twin Cities will drive farther than 2 hours to get to MSP for air service. DLH already has G4, and it's often cheaper to drive to MSP to get on WN. If people from HIB, BRD, BJI, and DLH already drive to MSP because of the high airfares in those places, I doubt STC is going to be any different being closer to MSP than any of the above.

Agreed. I'm discovering that people in smaller towns are used to driving to the "big city" for things that they want or need - mall shopping, cultural experiences, professional sports, hospitals/medical care - air transportation is no different. I moved to FSD from MSP and people (myself included) regularly drive to MSP for better availability of flights. That and it is a good opportunity to go shopping and make it into a full trip.

Quoting PanAm788 (Reply 11):
A better idea would be rail service, but our (MN's) brilliant government invested millions in a commuter rail line that stops just short of St. Cloud (the 3rd biggest non-MSP area city in the state). And now since the line isn't getting enough ridership (big surprise, right?) they suspended the plans to extend the line to St. Cloud. With a connecting light rail in Minneapolis, it would've been around a 1 hour 30 minute ride or so to the MSP airport, making there really no need for an airport in St. Cloud.
Quoting N1120A (Reply 22):
Extending the train is a better idea. Use those EAS or local funds to finish the train line and you have both a solid commuter service and a reliable connection to MSP.

Also agreed! The train is very nice but by only running to literally the middle of nowhere in Elk River cuts it off at the knees. Now you can make a really fun day trip on Sundays from downtown Minneapolis to Elk River and back (gives you about 2.5 hrs in Elk River to go get a coffee and bowl a couple games at the local bowling alley) but otherwise without that St. Cloud terminus it feels mostly useless. It would be an easy one-connection trip from the Northstar to the Hiawatha Line in downtown Minneapolis.



Ich haben zwei Platzspielen und ein Microphone
25 Post contains links sunking737 : Looks like G4 will announce service from STC to Mesa AZ tomorrow. http://www.bizjournals.com/twincitie...line-flying-to-st-cloud---but.html
26 BA744PHX : now bookable starting December 15 twice weekly AZA-STC
27 AllegiantAir : Now the debate...will this be successful with the close proximity to MSP and the same route from FAR? We'll have to wait and see I guess. Best of luck
28 iowaman : Allegiant shouldn't have any problem maintaing this service - there are enough people around STC and the northwestern Minneapolis suburbs to make this
29 olddominion727 : I am really surprised G4 or SY has not picked up this route even 1 or 2 days a week. I am thinking 1 ERD on AA/CRJ on DL, ER3 on UA would work perfect
30 Cubsrule : If I am in Chicago and need to go to that general area, what incentive is there for me to pick one daily flight to STC versus literally dozens to MSP
31 bjorn14 : I read somewhere that if STC was offering a subsidy it would tell the carrier the size of the plane (at least Saab 340 size) and where they would fly
32 WA707atMSP : Well said, Cubsrule! Also, as I've said before, the far northwest reaches of the Twin Cities (St. Cloud's catchment area) are much more blue collar t
33 Cubsrule : It sounds a lot like the BTR/MSY situation, though BTR is more of a market on its own than St Cloud is, which explains the service that BTR does have
34 CIDFlyer : keep in mind Allegiant has been very successful at RFD which is probably closer to ORD than STC is to MSP. Plus G4 is down the road from RFD at MLI.
35 MSPNWA : Happy for St. Cloud to get air service again. Hope it works. Good to see that nice terminal put to use.
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