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Banning Of Personal Seat Belt Extensions?  
User currently offlineskyhawk From United States of America, joined May 2001, 1066 posts, RR: 3
Posted (1 year 11 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 16444 times:

I have a question for anyone- on his way home from work today(he works at LGA) my husband heard on WABC at 2:30 PM that the FAA had reversed their previous ruling and had decided to ban the extensions. Does anybody know of this? Have any of you heard the same news blip?

Without a doubt this would affect millions of people. BTW-I don't mean this to get into a discussion of the size of people involved, just wondering how this would be handled. Do you think that the seatbelt itself would have to be changed? Thanks ahead of time for all of the discussion.

35 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinekiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8526 posts, RR: 14
Reply 1, posted (1 year 11 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 16456 times:
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Based on this story :

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/lifestyl...onal-seat-belt-extenders-says-faa/

A seat belt is required for every passenger on board a flight. Airlines provide extenders, which, along with seat belts, are inspected and maintained under each airline’s Continuous Airworthiness Maintenance Program, according to the FAA.

While some seat belt extenders may be labeled FAA-approved, the agency warns they are not inspected and maintained and should not be used.


It seems to be a matter of banning people from bringing their own non-approved extenders instead of using ones supplied by the airlines.

[Edited 2012-08-14 12:13:33]

[Edited 2012-08-14 12:14:03]


Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlineBEG2IAH From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 926 posts, RR: 17
Reply 2, posted (1 year 11 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 16417 times:
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I hope they ban use of extensions in exit rows. I see it as a problem in an evacuation. Just sat next to a guy who needed it and it took this guy up to 10 seconds to just sit down, let alone what would be going on if we needed to evacuate and open that overwing exit.


FAA killed the purpose of my old signature: Use of approved electronic devices is now permitted.
User currently offlineskyhawk From United States of America, joined May 2001, 1066 posts, RR: 3
Reply 3, posted (1 year 11 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 16386 times:

BEG2IAH-seat belt extensions are already not permitted in the emergency exits, and for the exact reasons you cited.

User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 4, posted (1 year 11 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 16403 times:

I think some of you guys are misunderstanding this. The seat belt extenders that are provided by the airline are, in fact, permitted under FAA rules. They have the FAA-PMA on the tag of the seat belt extenders. They are replaced frequently since some people abuse the extenders. However, what is NOT allowed on the airplane is the use of your own personal seat belt extender. It does not matter if it has the FAA-PMA on the tag of your own personal extender. It has to do with liability in the event that your personal seat belt extender fails. It also helps the airline's CYA.

The airline supplied seat belt extenders are still legal to use today and is quite safe to use, so use what the airline gives you instead of your own.

Quoting BEG2IAH (Reply 2):
I hope they ban use of extensions in exit rows.

I think the safety card states at most U.S. airlines that you must be able to assist in an evacuation and must be able bodied or something along the lines of that. So if you are a customer of size, you are more than likely disqualified and would be reseated elsewhere in the plane.



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineBEG2IAH From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 926 posts, RR: 17
Reply 5, posted (1 year 11 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 16267 times:
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Quoting skyhawk (Reply 3):
BEG2IAH-seat belt extensions are already not permitted in the emergency exits, and for the exact reasons you cited.

If they are not, my favorite airline is ignoring the rule.

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 4):
I think the safety card states at most U.S. airlines that you must be able to assist in an evacuation and must be able bodied or something along the lines of that. So if

I witnessed more than once that these guys would just answer 'yes' when asked if they were "able and willing to assist the crew in case of an emergency". I wouldn't worry too much if the overwing exit door would rotate up and open to the outside (B737 NG), but when you need to pull it in (say A320) and leave it on a seat before evacuation starts, I'm not sure if there would be enough space to manoeuvre the door around your fellow passenger.



FAA killed the purpose of my old signature: Use of approved electronic devices is now permitted.
User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 6, posted (1 year 11 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 16108 times:

Quoting BEG2IAH (Reply 5):

I witnessed more than once that these guys would just answer 'yes' when asked if they were "able and willing to assist the crew in case of an emergency".

I have a slight problem with that. They only say "yes" just to get the FA out of their faces so that they can go back to their music/newspaper/magazine or whatever. It is annoying.

Quoting BEG2IAH (Reply 5):
I wouldn't worry too much if the overwing exit door would rotate up and open to the outside (B737 NG)

Not trying to invoke a B vs. A war here, but Boeing got this one right. This is how it should have been to begin with. I hope Airbus adopts this on their NEO's. Or better yet, adopt it now.



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineHALFA From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 1347 posts, RR: 15
Reply 7, posted (1 year 11 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 15431 times:

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 6):
Not trying to invoke a B vs. A war here, but Boeing got this one right. This is how it should have been to begin with. I hope Airbus adopts this on their NEO's. Or better yet, adopt it now.

Hmmm.
HA's Boeing 717's and 767's do not have over wing window exit doors that rotate up and open to the outside.
All of our Boeing aircraft over wing window exit doors pull in and are placed on seats. Ironically, all of the exits on our Airbus 330 aircraft open outwards and are not placed on seats.

Aloha,
HALFA



Don't mess with Texas....We just may do that!
User currently offline737tdi From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 773 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (1 year 11 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 15406 times:
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Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 6):
Not trying to invoke a B vs. A war here, but Boeing got this one right. This is how it should have been to begin with. I hope Airbus adopts this on their NEO's. Or better yet, adopt it now.




Please go ahead and hang onto the handle sir, LOL, Have you ever felt the force that these exits open? They will pull you out of the aircraft if you pull and don't know whats coming. There aren't 2% of the FA's that could close one of them.. Release that and you are going out if you don't know what to do. Folks just don't listen to the pre-flight. Yank it and let go. If you don't, Hell i've already said that. I think it would incredibly hilarious if a passenger pulled a NG over wing exit, as long as it wasn't an emergency????

737tdi


User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6477 posts, RR: 9
Reply 9, posted (1 year 11 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 15177 times:

I never heard about people bringing their own extensions. With what 737tdi said, aren't they likely to be stolen from another flight ?


New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlineRebelDJ From United Kingdom, joined May 2007, 112 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (1 year 11 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 14663 times:

Quoting BEG2IAH (Reply 5):
but when you need to pull it in (say A320) and leave it on a seat before evacuation starts,

I think you're meant to pull it in, twist it and then throw it out of the hole.


User currently offlinetdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 80
Reply 11, posted (1 year 11 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 14613 times:

Quoting 737tdi (Reply 9):
Please go ahead and hang onto the handle sir, LOL, Have you ever felt the force that these exits open?

Yep.

Quoting 737tdi (Reply 9):
They will pull you out of the aircraft if you pull and don't know whats coming.

Why would you keep holding on as it pulls you out of the aircraft? My experience is that most people can't hold on because it catches them by surprise. Even if it does pull you out of the aircraft, it's just going to dump you on the wing (where you presumably wanted to end up anyway).

Quoting 737tdi (Reply 9):
There aren't 2% of the FA's that could close one of them.

They were designed to be easy to open, not easy to close. You're not in a hurry when you're trying to close it.

Tom.


User currently offline135mech From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 408 posts, RR: 4
Reply 12, posted (1 year 11 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 13968 times:
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Quoting Aesma (Reply 11):
I never heard about people bringing their own extensions. With what 737tdi said, aren't they likely to be stolen from another flight ?



That (because we know people like "collectibles" lol...) happens, but also...those individuals (for various reasons) that stay "large" and fly regularly could have researched and bought their own for the sole case that some airlines may have not had enough on some of their previous flights, so they do this to ensure they have safety of their own.


User currently offlineFURUREFA From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 801 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (1 year 11 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 13523 times:

Quoting RebelDJ (Reply 12):
Quoting BEG2IAH (Reply 5):
but when you need to pull it in (say A320) and leave it on a seat before evacuation starts,

I think you're meant to pull it in, twist it and then throw it out of the hole.

It depends on each airlines individual procedure. Some airlines require throwing the exit out the whole, while others require it be left on the seat.


User currently offlineB6JFKH81 From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2867 posts, RR: 7
Reply 14, posted (1 year 11 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 13391 times:

Quoting Aesma (Reply 11):
I never heard about people bringing their own extensions. With what 737tdi said, aren't they likely to be stolen from another flight ?

I've seen it before and I stopped it on more than one flight that I was traveling on. How old is that extension? Is it rated 16G? Was it made by someone who has a PMA to manufacture them as per the regulatory standards? Can I please see the 8130 cert for that part? Has it been inspected by the airline's QC Receiving Inspectors to ensure it is approved for use on THAT airline? I see you are seated in an extra legroom seat which is equipped with an airbag seatbelt, the extension is supposed to stop that airbag from going off because it'll do more harm than good....does your de-activate the airbag? The answer will most likely always be a "deer in the headlights look" from the customer if those questions are asked, so instead I kindly request they use one that has been approved by the airline LOL.

~H81

[Edited 2012-08-15 11:48:56 by srbmod]


"If you do not learn from history, you are doomed to repeat it"
User currently offlineGentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3043 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (1 year 11 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 13282 times:

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 1):
While some seat belt extenders may be labeled FAA-approved, the agency warns they are not inspected and maintained

From the smallest of safety aspects I can appreciate what the FAA is trying to do. With that said I've never seen a seat belt or extender fail on a plane, car or boat. What's next the banning of personal earphones and ear-buds because they may cause electrical shock if used in flight.

I'm not sure if the airlines provide seat belt extenders free of charge or they cost. The FAA decision could potentially allow the airlines to continue to nickle and dime the flying public or sell passengers of girth two seats. Ten or so years ago did anyone ever see the airlines charging for overhead bin space when fee based checked luggage was implemented?
'



Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
User currently offlinevirgincrew From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2004, 422 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (1 year 11 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 13148 times:

Quoting BEG2IAH (Reply 2):
I hope they ban use of extensions in exit rows. I see it as a problem in an evacuation. Just sat next to a guy who needed it and it took this guy up to 10 seconds to just sit down, let alone what would be going on if we needed to evacuate and open that overwing exit.

In the UK, extension seat belts are not allowed at exit rows, exactly for that reason.... it could hinder an evacuation.



Hello Beautiful !!!
User currently offlineBC77008 From United States of America, joined Sep 2011, 290 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (1 year 11 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 12667 times:

Quoting B6JFKH81 (Reply 22):
I am not a flight attendant. I am a member of the Technical Operations/Technical Supply Chain team for my airline. It's our responsibility to ensure unapproved aircraft parts don't get "installed" on our planes. I'm not saying it should be the responsibility of the F/As onboard to do what I have done in the past, as I have handled thousands upon thousands of these extensions over the years and know the manufacturer, model, proper color, etc., which is why I can normally tell if someone is using their own. I was just making a point that I have seen people use their own before...

I'm sure that some of them do use their own, and of course if I were to notice it, I would hand them one of our own extensions... but the key word there is "notice" and if I don't notice it, then I continue on. I did make a mistake not too long ago when a rather large woman asked me for a seatbelt extension and I told her I would be happy to get her one. About 10 minutes later before I shut the main cabin door I accidentally delivered the seatbelt extension to an even larger woman that didn't ask for one but somehow managed to get the seatbelt around her.



"He waited his whole damn life to take that flight. And as the plane crashed down he thought 'Well isn't this nice...'"
User currently offlinedoug_Or From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3399 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (1 year 11 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 12429 times:

Quoting 135mech (Reply 14):
those individuals (for various reasons) that stay "large" and fly regularly could have researched and bought their own for the sole case that some airlines may have not had enough on some of their previous flights, so they do this to ensure they have safety of their own.

Or want to save themselves the embarrassment of asking every single flight.



When in doubt, one B pump off
User currently onlinembm3 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 828 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (1 year 11 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 12442 times:
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Folks, not everyone who uses a selt belt extender is "a fat bastard" as many seem to think and comment here in this forum. Some of us tall folks - I am 6''4"/190cms - can be challenged by the belts even at our fighting weights, much less with a bit of middle aged spread. Given my strength, knowledge and willingness to assist, am I suddenly unfit for the exit row simply based on requesting an extension?


Let Me Tell You, Landing A 772ER Is Harder Than It Looks!
User currently offlineMD-90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 8502 posts, RR: 12
Reply 20, posted (1 year 11 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 12219 times:

This year's Lifeway (Southern Baptist publisher) theme for vacation bible school was called "Amazing Wonders of Aviation" and this was the VBS program we did at our church this year.

Someone bought in two seatbelt extenders to use as props for the kids to see and one of them was clearly certified since it was made by Amsafe and I believe had both TSO and PMA numbers on it. The other one was the oddball Southwest style belt and it had nothing on it saying it was certified.

[Edited 2012-08-15 10:44:52]

User currently offlinedoug_Or From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3399 posts, RR: 3
Reply 21, posted (1 year 11 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 12119 times:

Quoting mbm3 (Reply 25):

Folks, not everyone who uses a selt belt extender is "a fat bastard" as many seem to think and comment here in this forum. Some of us tall folks - I am 6''4"/190cms - can be challenged by the belts even at our fighting weights, much less with a bit of middle aged spread.

I've seen plenty of tall people fasten their seatbelts without the need of an extension. What exactly would you consider "fighting weight"? And how would you suggest plugs be kept out of the emergency exit row?



When in doubt, one B pump off
User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 22, posted (1 year 11 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 12087 times:

Quoting doug_Or (Reply 27):
And how would you suggest plugs be kept out of the emergency exit row?

Simple, assign them a seat elsewhere. That is why when you book your flight, the emergency exit row seats are blocked off for airport use only.



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19282 posts, RR: 58
Reply 23, posted (1 year 11 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 11524 times:

Quoting RebelDJ (Reply 12):
I think you're meant to pull it in, twist it and then throw it out of the hole.

I've seen different instructions on different cards. Some say to pull it inside and put it on the seats (which involves raising the armrests to make room, which I can see becoming a problem in a panicked cabin filling with smoke and fire). Some say to toss it out the hole (which sounds like a recipe for a spark to me). I am not sure whether this depends on the manufacturer or the airline and I can't recall whether there was any consistency (A320's on the seats, 737's out the door, for example).

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 20):
I'm not sure if the airlines provide seat belt extenders free of charge or they cost. The FAA decision could potentially allow the airlines to continue to nickle and dime the flying public or sell passengers of girth two seats

That is exactly WN's policy, though. If you need two seats and cannot fit in one AND if the flight is full (you are taking a seat that would otherwise be taken by another paying passenger), then you must purchase both seats. That seems like a very fair and reasonable policy to me, although it raises outrage.


User currently offlineEIDL From Ireland, joined Apr 2012, 409 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (1 year 11 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 11464 times:

I've never seen instructions to say to leave the seat on the door on a full-scale narrow-body, but I have on regional jets and turboprops. Would imagine a 320 door is too big to bring inside!

737NGs have the advantage that the door just opens up and there's no need to put it anywhere.


25 Post contains images B6JFKH81 : Our Safety Info Cards (B6) do indicate to throw the door out onto the wing:
26 BEG2IAH : This is exactly what's printed on the door of A320 I was on on Sunday. It shows that you need to bring the door inside, although Airbus training vide
27 EMBQA : I think you'll find out that most of the personal lap belts are bought on eBay and had been stolen off other aircraft
28 AirframeAS : You can also find some on Fab.com (my finacee loves this site) and get a Amsafe seat belt that is actually a belt for your pants. I have one actually
29 GentFromAlaska : I should have clarified my use of nickle and dime the flying public. I was referring to the airlines being allowed to rent seat belt extenders in lie
30 tdscanuck : If they bring their own: 1) It's incredibly unlikely to be FAA (or local equivalent regulator) approved therefore *illegal* for the airline to allow
31 silentbob : Some are purchased online, others are from other aircraft. Every time someone tells me it's ok to use because they took it from another airplane I wa
32 HAWK21M : The Emergency exit seat should be occupied by a capable person in the 1st place.
33 jeb94 : Not all airlines use the same seatbelts. Some are wider, some are narrower. You have to have an extender that matches the seatbelt installed. No one s
34 737tdi : Tom, I totally agree, you wouldn't think one would hang on, but absolutely no one listens to the F/A's or review the cards. I really don't think a la
35 GentFromAlaska : Does Underwriter Laboratories UL put their stamp of approval on seat belt extenders? Aircraft seat cushions which also double as a Type IV Personal Fl
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