HALFA From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 1324 posts, RR: 17 Posted (9 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 3697 times:
Hawaiian Airlines announced today that they are changing their schedules for flights from the Bay Area to Hawaii.
Starting on October 3rd, HA will fly daily from both OAK and SJC to OGG, and the current daily service from SJC and OAK to HNL will switch to 3x and 4x weekly. The schedule changes are due to "consumer demand" according to HA Executive Vice President Peter Ingram.
HA will continue to fly a daily HNL-SFO flight utilizing a new A330 aircraft.
For more information and new flight schedules, see the press release:
wedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5526 posts, RR: 5 Reply 2, posted (9 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 3363 times:
Obviously sounds like the demand for OAK-HNL and SJC-HNL is not nearly as great as OGG. Seems kind of ironic considering the size of HNL and Oahu, and OGG and Maui. It will be interesting to see what happens. AS going to lose a little bit of ground at these two locations?
HiFlyerAS From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 606 posts, RR: 1 Reply 3, posted (9 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 3354 times:
Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 2): Obviously sounds like the demand for OAK-HNL and SJC-HNL is not nearly as great as OGG. Seems kind of ironic considering the size of HNL and Oahu, and OGG and Maui. It will be interesting to see what happens. AS going to lose a little bit of ground at these two locations?
It's a total reaction to AS pulling away customers from HA that used to connect HNL-OGG. The drop-down of the HNL flights proves that HA's strategy of routing everyone through HNL is failing. AS must be hurting them when it comes to OGG, KOA and LIH.
BMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 14326 posts, RR: 26 Reply 4, posted (9 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 3332 times:
Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 2): Obviously sounds like the demand for OAK-HNL and SJC-HNL is not nearly as great as OGG.
I can understand SJC considering the somewhat more affluent Silicon Valley people likely prefer Maui to Oahu anyway. Oakland may be the same sort of deal.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
HAL From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 2466 posts, RR: 53 Reply 5, posted (9 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 3283 times:
Quoting HiFlyerAS (Reply 3): It's a total reaction to AS pulling away customers from HA that used to connect HNL-OGG. The drop-down of the HNL flights proves that HA's strategy of routing everyone through HNL is failing. AS must be hurting them when it comes to OGG, KOA and LIH.
Yes, that's why their passenger numbers and profits have gone down so much lately. HA is quaking in their flip-flops as the mighty Alaska machine is taking over the islands.
HAL
One smooth landing is skill. Two in a row is luck. Three in a row and someone is lying.
aloha73g From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2301 posts, RR: 5 Reply 6, posted (9 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 3276 times:
Quoting HiFlyerAS (Reply 3): It's a total reaction to AS pulling away customers from HA that used to connect HNL-OGG. The drop-down of the HNL flights proves that HA's strategy of routing everyone through HNL is failing. AS must be hurting them when it comes to OGG, KOA and LIH.
Historically OGG has always been higher yielding than HNL. I also think this also has to do with HA trying to force people to connect to interisland flights from OGG-ITO/KOA/LIH/HNL to help support its new "hub" at OGG. If you look at the fare sale they are offering the cheapest fares must connect via OGG. A few more 767s at OGG each day will probably help keep the OGG-LIH/KOA/ITO interisland routes operating.
Also, keeping more connecting passengers away from HNL keeps seats open for locals. I know from personal experience it can be very difficult to find seats on interisland flights to/from HNL during HA's mainland departure window (11am-2pm).
Aloha!
Aloha Airlines - The Spirit Moves Us. Gone but NEVER Forgotten. Aloha, A Hui Hou!
RWA380 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2160 posts, RR: 4 Reply 7, posted (9 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 3017 times:
Quoting aloha73g (Reply 6): I know from personal experience it can be very difficult to find seats on interisland flights to/from HNL during HA's mainland departure window (11am-2pm).
A lot of this is due to check in and check out times of hotels, and the large groups, often times from Asia that take multi Island itineraries when they visit the beautiful 50th state. It has been tough to fly at those times since I lived there between 93 and 95 and there was HA and AQ plus a few widebodies flying mid-day HNL-OGG with D10's and L10's on AA, UA & DL which could at times be full themselves because of the cheaper fares over HA or AQ.
Next Flights: AS PDX-SEA-KOA on DH4/738 in F, HA KOA-OGG on 717 in Y, AS OGG-PDX on 738 in F
dlflynhayn From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 354 posts, RR: 1 Reply 8, posted (9 months 1 week 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 2905 times:
Quoting aloha73g (Reply 6): I also think this also has to do with HA trying to force people to connect to interisland flights from OGG-ITO/KOA/LIH/HNL to help support its new "hub" at OGG
I like the option of connecting in OGG...If my DL flt is full from LAX-KOA i sometimes take the early morning DL flt to OGG and connect to KOA on HA that way instead of going thru HNL less walking and less people.I beleive back in the day HA only had one maybe two flights a day to KOA from OGG so i wouldn't chance it to much going thru OGG wasn't worth it but know they have around four flts a day i feel a little better going thru that airport now...Just watch the fares cause one time in OGG i didnt check the availability before i left LAX and when i got to OGG the HA flt to KOA was oversold,i couldn't backtrack to HNL cause all those flts were full so obvisouly i couldn't use my ID90 rate i ended up buying a $200.00 first-class one-way ticket from OGG-KOA..
md3 From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 83 posts, RR: 0 Reply 9, posted (9 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 2814 times:
Quoting HAL (Reply 5):
Quoting HiFlyerAS (Reply 3):
It's a total reaction to AS pulling away customers from HA that used to connect HNL-OGG. The drop-down of the HNL flights proves that HA's strategy of routing everyone through HNL is failing. AS must be hurting them when it comes to OGG, KOA and LIH.
Yes, that's why their passenger numbers and profits have gone down so much lately. HA is quaking in their flip-flops as the mighty Alaska machine is taking over the islands.
HAL
The overstatement and defensiveness of both sides there is really clear, to those who are less biased.
Any business has to adapt to the changing of the competitive landscape. AS has certainly brought a new, and successful, strategy to the mainland-HI game. How much that has shaped HA's strategy we can all only speculate, but they WILL adjust and adapt as needed. They are a responsible, profitable airline, as pointed out, who wants to continue to be successful.
mikesairways From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 635 posts, RR: 0 Reply 10, posted (9 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 2781 times:
What is the HNL connecting traffic from SJC/OAK to Asia, Philippines, etc?
The red zone is for the immediate loading and unloading of passengers only, there is no stopping in the white zone...(Ai
HiFlyerAS From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 606 posts, RR: 1 Reply 11, posted (9 months 1 week 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 2329 times:
Quoting md3 (Reply 9): The overstatement and defensiveness of both sides there is really clear, to those who are less biased.
There was nothing 'defensive' about my statement regarding the pull-down of HNL flights. It was strictly conjecture and speculation on my part as to why it might be occuring. The establishment of a mini-hub in OGG is a perfectly good explanation for adding service to OGG. Of course AS will never rival HA in flights to the islands or that feeling of 'aloha' when traveling there.
SANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 4720 posts, RR: 15 Reply 15, posted (9 months 1 week 2 days ago) and read 2043 times:
Quoting ANA787 (Reply 13): What is happening to the LAS-OGG frame when this route is cut?
Since noone else seems to be interested in or able to answer your question, I'll repeat what I posted on the other thread where this subject is being discussed: OAG Changes 8/17/2012: DL/F9/UA/US (by enilria Aug 13 2012 in Civil Aviation):
Quote: Having looked into and thought about this some more since yesterday, I'd bet that the OGG-LAS a/c is in fact destined to help start the CTS (Sapporo) and BNE (Brisbane) routes (both starting in November when LAS-OGG stops and both also op'ing with the 763ER.) Maybe she'll also be used for the occasional NFL charter?
I believe the nonstop Maui-Vegas service began in fall of 2010 (October) and although operating ever since, has never gone daily. (It started out twice weekly.) My guess is that HA felt the a/c could be better used elsewhere.
I'll further add here that both CTS and BNE appear to be scheduled to operate 3x weekly, and pretty much both flights on the same days. What's more, I think the LAS-OGG flight currently might operate on the same 3 days! That pretty much clinches it for me but this is just my guess...
Anyone have the definitive answer? Inquiring minds need to know!
n471wn From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1182 posts, RR: 1 Reply 16, posted (9 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 1473 times:
I have said it before and I will say it again----HA's preoccupation with their "Eastern strategy" has resulted in them dropping the ball on their West Coast mainland flights-----Alaska is "eating thier lunch" now and Allegaint and SWA will be more bad news for them-----they really did think that people did not mind going through HNL and changing planes----they were (and remain) out of touch with reality.
daviation From United States of America, joined Sep 2008, 432 posts, RR: 1 Reply 17, posted (9 months 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 1455 times:
FWIW, it just took my first roundtrip on HA a few weeks ago from JFK to HNL. The outgoing and return flights were both filled to 100% capacity.
HA has, by far, the best customer service of any domestic U.S. carrier in coach. I was amazed at the free meals and high level of service. The FAs continued to stroll the aisles at all times to serve refreshments.
My final destination was Maui, but I decided to use JHM on WP since it was more convenient to my condo. I didn't mind the change at HNL at all. It was very convenient, especially for someone who often transfers at PHL.
These are just my observations. I think HA has a winner in their East Coast service. And I don't see why anyone would mind tranferring in HNL.
n471wn From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1182 posts, RR: 1 Reply 19, posted (9 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 1388 times:
Quoting bobnwa (Reply 18): What figures do you have that would back-up that statement?
Obiously none yet for G4 and WN---as for Alaska just look at their growth and profits on thieir Hawaii routes---anyway you cut it this was HA's iif they watned it.....
aloha73g From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2301 posts, RR: 5 Reply 20, posted (9 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 1364 times:
Quoting n471wn (Reply 19): Obiously none yet for G4 and WN---as for Alaska just look at their growth and profits on thieir Hawaii routes---anyway you cut it this was HA's iif they watned it.....
AS was lucky, in a sense, to be starting their expansion into Hawai'i around the same time AQ & TZ folded. Alot of the routes AS has started were formerly operated by AQ and/or TZ. AQ is really the airline that pioneered using 737s to connect smaller mainland cities directly to neighbor islands.
HA could have bought AQ's operation (or TZ's) out of bankruptcy at a very affordable price, but chose not to for very valid business reasons. HA's operation, labor contracts, marketing, etc are all based on operating wide-body aircraft on "bigger" routes. AS's business plan is based on operating only 737s & leveraging the strength of their hub at SEA.
I think it would be stupid for HA to get 737s to connect secondary markets and it would also be stupid for AS to get 767s or A330s and fly HNL-LAX.
Airlines DO NOT have to do everything....fly everything...to everywhere to be successful. I would also venture that airlines which have tried that in the past have failed miserably (Braniff post 1978 anyone?) Both AS & HA have been extremely successful in their Hawaii operations for very different reasons. I seriously doubt either could (or would) do well with the others strategy.
Why can't we just congratulate them both on their success and wish them well?
-Aloha!
Aloha Airlines - The Spirit Moves Us. Gone but NEVER Forgotten. Aloha, A Hui Hou!
BeachBoy From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 38 posts, RR: 0 Reply 22, posted (9 months 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 1103 times:
I don't think this announcement is any reflection on whether AS or HA's business model is working better, but rather one of HA being efficient and nimble w/ their operations which is why they have been so successful. With all of their expansion, HA is running out of space in HNL (including interisland capacity to/fr HNL) during their peak midday bank of flights so if the majority of the traffic from OAK and SJC are ultimately going to OGG, ITO, KOA, or LIH it really doesn't matter if they connect in HNL or OGG and since OGG has room for expansion w/ probably minimal increase in fixed costs, why not take pressure off the hub in HNL. Contrary to what a lot of people on here believe, I still think the VAST majority of travelers purchase tickets based on price so if OAK/SJC-LIH//KOA via OGG/HNL on HA is cheaper than nonstop on AS, they're gonna go w/ HA. I have friends who fly a circuitous route not because they're aviation enthusiasts, but to save just $10-20 because that's what appears at the top of the search list for Orbitz, Expedia, Kayak, and Travelocity.
I'm also wondering with 3 daily mainland flights and increased interisland flying if the next phase of the "Maui hub" will include establishing a satellite FA and/or pilot base. I know that some of the FAs flying the routes live on Maui, but for arguments sake, say all of the crew (8 FAs and 2 pilots) lives in HNL that could mean up to 60 lost revenue seats (half a 717) per day during the peak travel time. Hypothetically, say HA generates $60 of revenue/seat (kinda on the low end), that works out to $1.3 million in lost revenue per year. I'm sure HA has crunched the numbers and it's probably cheaper to fly them in than have to pay for reserve crew, etc. but I guess I'm just wondering at what point does it make sense to establish a FA and/or pilot base on Maui.
Kinda off topic, but I'm surprised HA has not applied for a NRT/HND-OGG-KOA/HNL-NRT/HND flight. I'm sure they probably don't want to deal w/ the politics of establishing a FIS at OGG, but my personal feeling is that over the past 20 yrs people on Maui have realized that a longer runway and/or increased overseas flights do not equal uncontrolled growth and it would be good to have a more diverse visitor base like Oahu so there is a little more stability in the visitor numbers, but it's just my opinion.
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