Fly2yyz From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 972 posts, RR: 2 Posted (10 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 7227 times:
OP chieft posted this back in May, but it was archived. Transporting of pilgrims to Islams holy site will commence In October, so I'd thought I'd bring back the OPs topic and see if anyone knows of some interesting planes heading over and where.
TS is sending 5 330s to be based in a few destinations in Indonesia (thinking the same destinations as last year BTH and SOC).
As this years Hajj season approaches, do we know of any leases taking place.
Assuming the usual suspects of Air Atlanta, Pullmantour, AtlasJet, Onur Air will be making their usual appearances.
Do we also know of any others ?
How's about exotic operators flying to JED, Orient Thai i.e, Max Air.?
The wide-body availability seems to be limited this year as there is still summer season in US and Europe and lot of airlines have grounded their B747s for economical reasons.
chieft From Germany, joined Jun 2005, 255 posts, RR: 0 Reply 4, posted (10 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 6711 times:
Quoting na (Reply 2): Quoting Fly2yyz (Thread starter):
and lot of airlines have grounded their B747s for economical reasons.
Thats factually wrong. Not even one has done so. Most 744s "grounded" are old and have reached the end of their career.
Well, in fact the economical point is the true one. Even young aircraft, 10 years old were grounded and are available for sale at comparably rediclious prices. The capacities are simply not required in every days operation and the fule burn is comparably high for todays fuel prices.
na From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 9705 posts, RR: 10 Reply 5, posted (10 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 6605 times:
I wonder about the pretty Kabo Air 742s in NWA-hybrid colours. Likely they´ll show up.
Quoting chieft (Reply 4): Well, in fact the economical point is the true one. Even young aircraft, 10 years old were grounded and are available for sale at comparably rediclious prices. The capacities are simply not required in every days operation and the fule burn is comparably high for todays fuel prices.
Show me just one example where an airline has grounded more than single frames. You will have problems to find a sizable "grounded" 744 that is younger than 20 years. There are a few freighters which are in temporary storage (CAL and Jade), but hardly any relatively young passenger plane. The ones that are removed from service are mostly snapped rather quickly by someone else (see the ex-SQ, ANA, JAL etc).
chieft From Germany, joined Jun 2005, 255 posts, RR: 0 Reply 6, posted (10 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 6489 times:
Well, the youngest stored ones are 12 years old, in that respect you are right.
However, Prices for Boeing 747-400s, are tumbling as carriers rush to replace their aircraft with newer and more fuel-efficient models.
10 year old passenger 747-400s are worth a record low $US36 million, about 10 per cent less than similar aged plane last year. That is caised by high fuel costs and a cargo slump that has damped interest in converting aircraft into freighters.
84 of 404 747-400s worldwide have been placed in storage, the B744 is shunned for 777s and Airbus A380s.
The decline in prices contributed to Singapore Airlines having a surprise loss in one quarter after the sale of their last 747-400s raised less than it expected.
Japan Airlines has stopped using the planes, and operators including Cathay Pacific Airways, Korean Air Lines and Malaysia Airlines are following in order counter fuel prices that have jumped about 30 percent in two years.
Cathay Pacific is speeding up the retirement of its 21 passenger B744s. The carrier plans to shed nine through early 2014 as it adds more 777-300ERs for long-haul flights. Cathay is also retiring three -400 freighters this year because of the arrival of new 747-8 cargo planes.
Thai Airways is in the process of selling four 747-400s and it will begin phasing out the model next year.
Malaysia Airlines, which received its first A380 recently, consumes 1181 barrels of fuel flying the A380 aircraft to London from Kuala Lumpur. The carrier's 359-seat 747-400s use about 999 barrels of fuel on the same route.
On the other hand, BA will keep their 744s for the next 10 years.
The market for large, older aircraft in general is disappearing fast.
Would be a good chance for an investor to invest in specilised hajj operations. This special segment desperately requires the B744 - to come back to the meaning of this thread
Fly2yyz From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 972 posts, RR: 2 Reply 7, posted (10 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 6464 times:
Quoting na (Reply 2): Thats factually wrong. Not even one has done so. Most 744s "grounded" are old and have reached the end of their career.
I was just paraphrasing for someone who started this topic back in May I believe, and it was archived. I choose not to agree or disagree because I am not qualified enough to answer the question about 744s and their economic capacity this day in age.
777way From Pakistan, joined Dec 2005, 5281 posts, RR: 4 Reply 9, posted (10 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 6335 times:
PIA are said to be leasing two each 772ER on dry lease and 744on wet lease but not known from whom, the 777s will continue as part of fleet post Hajj not sure about the 744s, they were interested to keep one for two years in a tender.
JAGflyer From Canada, joined Aug 2004, 3328 posts, RR: 4 Reply 10, posted (10 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 4823 times:
When the planes get returned from these flights they often need massive cabin overhauls as many of the passengers on these flights are rural people who have no idea how to act on a plane or what is permitted/not permitted. I've heard stories of pax trying to cook (yes, cook) food at their seats, trying to smoke, using the galley as a washroom, and in one case using the L1011 galley elevator as a toilet. The FAs really get a work out on these flights that's for sure.
[Edited 2012-08-16 18:13:38]
Supported the beer and soda can industry, recycle old airplanes!
cloud4000 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 639 posts, RR: 0 Reply 11, posted (10 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 4607 times:
Quoting 777way (Reply 9): PIA are said to be leasing two each 772ER on dry lease and 744on wet lease but not known from whom, the 777s will continue as part of fleet post Hajj not sure about the 744s, they were interested to keep one for two years in a tender.
I forgot the article but didn't the Saudi government put PIA on notice for its innumerable delays, threatening to ban them from Saudi Arabia all together. I think things have smoothed out, but it's a recurring theme.
UK_Dispatcher From United Arab Emirates, joined Dec 2001, 2553 posts, RR: 32 Reply 15, posted (10 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 3378 times:
I will be monitoring the scheduled and non-Hajj-specific flights to see what interesting stuff crops up, if any. Last year myself and a friend managed to get a flight on a Jordan Aviation B767-200 which was still operating DAC-RUH-JED for Saudia right at the end of the Hajj. It was still in full Silverjet livery with additional Saudia titles and tail logo; and the interior appeared to be the old Britannia seats, 8-abreast. Certainly tight but nevertheless an interesting hybrid with a friendly Cabin Manager who was recounting some of his experiences of carrying Hajj passengers!
If there was, it was probably one of the Barq Aviation machines that is still operating for Askari Aviation in Pakistan on UN troop movements to Africa. I don't think any are operating Hajj flights this year.
TravelsUK From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2007, 134 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (10 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 3284 times:
Quoting JAGflyer (Reply 10): When the planes get returned from these flights they often need massive cabin overhauls as many of the passengers on these flights are rural people who have no idea how to act on a plane or what is permitted/not permitted. I've heard stories of pax trying to cook (yes, cook) food at their seats, trying to smoke, using the galley as a washroom, and in one case using the L1011 galley elevator as a toilet. The FAs really get a work out on these flights that's for sure.
I think this became the primary reason for Thomson Airways no longer sending their planes out on Hajj work.
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