GSTBA From UK - England, joined Apr 2010, 404 posts, RR: 1 Posted (10 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 10962 times:
British Airways have today announced that they will operate up to 8 flights daily on the former BD LHR-DUB route from 29th October 2012. This will be a doubling in frequency compared to BD's W11/12 schedule
The new schedule is now available on BA.com
The new schedule will result in 2 BA Airbus's night stopping in DUB during the week and 1 at a weekend. Flights will be operated by a mixture of A319 & A320 aircraft in a 2 class Club Europe/Euro Traveller configuration
AIR MALTA From Malta, joined Sep 2001, 2367 posts, RR: 1 Reply 4, posted (10 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 10570 times:
Quoting clydenairways (Reply 3): DUB-LON (Not just LHR) was getting a bit to cosy recently and needs a bit of competition to shake it up a bit again.
The code share agreement is going to continue with EI... I don't expect the prices to go down... and I guess some of the slots used here could in the future be used for longhaul.
Why dont they upgrade this plane to something larger? It will free up a slot and i dont think many people will care if they arrive at 8 or 9 in the morning.
tonystan From Ireland, joined Jan 2006, 1190 posts, RR: 2 Reply 6, posted (10 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 10331 times:
Quoting kl911 (Reply 5): Why dont they upgrade this plane to something larger? It will free up a slot and i dont think many people will care if they arrive at 8 or 9 in the morning.
Frequency I think is the key here! That and the 767s are also pretty stretched at the moment especially with the refit taking place through the winter.
OA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 25118 posts, RR: 60 Reply 9, posted (10 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 10257 times:
Quoting kl911 (Reply 5): Why dont they upgrade this plane to something larger? It will free up a slot and i dont think many people will care if they arrive at 8 or 9 in the morning.
You would be surprised people like the choice between 8,9,10 etc.. especially business professionals. If they finish their meetings in London and get to the airport early they like to get home an hour early too . Its Europe's busiest International city pair so no surprise with the number of flights being offered.
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tonystan From Ireland, joined Jan 2006, 1190 posts, RR: 2 Reply 10, posted (10 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 10239 times:
Quoting yyz717 (Reply 7): Didnt BA drop this route years ago due to low yields, and preference for Aer Lingus by the overwhelming Irish traffic?
20 years ago, after stiff competition from both EI and BD not to mention the then newby and even then ruthless FR that was launching on the London-Dublin route in a very different market situation when fares where still extremely high!
Its 2012 now, so much has changed, the dynamics are totally different and the mere fact that BA have in such a short space of time not only showed commitment to the route but also cemented a sensible and expanded schedule can only be a good sign. I must admit, when I first heard BA were taking over BMI I was of the same mindset as you and expected to find the route cannibilised for its slots but you know what, Im eating my hat and delighted that I am!
DUB-LON (Not just LHR) was getting a bit to cosy recently and needs a bit of competition to shake it up a bit again.
I think the route is already quite competitive.
Aer Lingus, Air Lingus Regional, British Airways, Cityjet and Ryanair will operate a total of 325 weekly flights from DUB to a total of 6 LON airports during the W12/13 season.
Below is a list if the airports served from DUB along with the airlines that serves it the weekly frequency by operator in brackets
OA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 25118 posts, RR: 60 Reply 12, posted (10 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 10039 times:
Quoting GSTBA (Reply 11): I think the route is already quite competitive.
DUB-LHR has got very cosy which I have noticed as a regular on the route. Im not sure we will see a huge change but would be nice to see it . Time will tell.
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pesit4a From Ireland, joined Jul 2012, 119 posts, RR: 0 Reply 13, posted (10 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 9863 times:
Quoting GSTBA (Reply 11): I think the route is already quite competitive.
It may seem that way on first glance, but it certainly is not competitive enough. Each London airport has its own market from Dublin, with very few people all that flexible on which airport they will use.
LHR is pretty much EI to itself with what amounts to a token presence by BD with a hitherto useless schedule save for leisure pax.
STN is FR only
LTN is FR only
LCY is AF only
SEN is EI only
Only LGW is truly competitive with evenly matched presences by EI and FR.
Fares are certainly much higher than what they used to be (though not helped by UK APD and high airport charges).
GSTBA From UK - England, joined Apr 2010, 404 posts, RR: 1 Reply 14, posted (10 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 9755 times:
A few people have mentioned that they believe the extra frequencies have been added to hold slots.
When I first heard this news I thought exactly the same thing. Then I thought about it. If BA needed to find a use for four sets of slots the last thing they would do is use all 4 sets on one route especially one that is already well covered by a code share agreement. They would have used them to add a additional frequency to places like ABZ, CDG, EDI, FRA, HAM, MAN, NCL or ORY.
Over the last 5 years BA has experienced a steady increase in the number of passengers connecting from Ireland onto it's longhaul services. The only reason I can think of that BA would make such a dramatic increase in frequency on what is a already well served route is if they are planning to or they have heard EI is planning to end there code share agreement. If you look at the new schedule all the flights are timed to connect with BA's North American network
pesit4a From Ireland, joined Jul 2012, 119 posts, RR: 0 Reply 17, posted (10 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 9602 times:
Quoting GSTBA (Reply 14): A few people have mentioned that they believe the extra frequencies have been added to hold slots.
The schedule is a business friendly, proper timetable. It does not strike me as anything other than an attempt to become a full, serious player on the route. This now makes Dublin BA's most frequently served international destination from LHR after AMS, MAD and BCN. That is not "slot sitting".
Quoting GSTBA (Reply 14): The only reason I can think of that BA would make such a dramatic increase in frequency on what is a already well served route is if they are planning to or they have heard EI is planning to end there code share agreement. If you look at the new schedule all the flights are timed to connect with BA's North American network
It is a wise, defensive move on BA's part. EI is very close with all the major alliances, and it's loyalty to Oneworld and BA cannot be taken for granted.
flyingalex From Germany, joined Jul 2010, 1007 posts, RR: 1 Reply 20, posted (10 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 6041 times:
Quoting kl911 (Reply 5): Why dont they upgrade this plane to something larger? It will free up a slot and i dont think many people will care if they arrive at 8 or 9 in the morning.
Ah, but reducing the number of needed slots is exactly what BA do not want to do.
Through the BD acquisition, they acquired a massive number of additional LHR slots, and they want to use as many as possible of them for longhaul. BA's longhaul fleet is stretched a little thin, so they cannot start additional longhaul destinations easily at this time. However, LHR slots are granted on a "use it or lose it" basis, which means that BA needs to fly somewhere using these slots in the meantime. As a result, the current DUB schedule is - at least partly - a slot-sitting exercise.
That's not to say the route is not viable (it is!), but there is a reason that BA is going for frequency on the route right now which is not solely related to demand.
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EIRules From Ireland, joined Aug 2007, 642 posts, RR: 10 Reply 21, posted (10 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 5396 times:
Quoting flyingalex (Reply 20): Through the BD acquisition, they acquired a massive number of additional LHR slots, and they want to use as many as possible of them for longhaul. BA's longhaul fleet is stretched a little thin, so they cannot start additional longhaul destinations easily at this time. However, LHR slots are granted on a "use it or lose it" basis, which means that BA needs to fly somewhere using these slots in the meantime. As a result, the current DUB schedule is - at least partly - a slot-sitting exercise.
Exactly. Given how busy DUB-LHR route is, and how short the flight is from a fuel perspective, this is never going to be a complete disaster for BA and will at least allow its business class passengers to get to LHR in a business cabin instead of an economy one if the connection is flown with EI. I would be amazed if BA continued to operate this route 8 daily when their new long haul routes are launched.
Next Flights: EI DUB-LHR A320, BA LHR-SFO B744, UA SFO-LAS A320, BA LAS-LHR B744, EI LHR-DUB A320
DAL763ER From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2008, 405 posts, RR: 0 Reply 22, posted (10 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 4159 times:
Quoting kl911 (Reply 5): Why dont they upgrade this plane to something larger? It will free up a slot and i dont think many people will care if they arrive at 8 or 9 in the morning.
It's not only about what time you arrive. I'd take the later flight given the choice for the simple reason I could sleep an hour more. What's wrong with that?
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VV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 6675 posts, RR: 17 Reply 23, posted (10 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 3379 times:
Quoting vhtje (Reply 1): Will these all be ex-Terminal 1 departures, or will some (or all) of the flights be ex-Terminal 5?
Currently onlty T1 has the most appropriate facilities for handling passengers travelling within the CTA (Common Travel Area) which basically covers the whole of the British Isles. According to the Airport Coordination Ltd web site it can handle up to 930 CTA arriving passengers in any one hour as well as 1,500 arriving domestic passengers.
T5 has no facilities specifically suitable to handle CTA arriving passengers but can handle domestic passengers. For some reason the ACL web site does not currently detail how many. But in previous annual reports it stated T5's maximum arrivals capacity was 1,150 passengers in any one hour.
Quoting kl911 (Reply 5): Why dont they upgrade this plane to something larger? It will free up a slot and i dont think many people will care if they arrive at 8 or 9 in the morning.
There are three factors that control slot availability at LHR. They are runway space, stand availability and terminal passenger capacity.
Aircraft separation for both arriving and departing aircraft is dependent on aircraft size. For example I observed 136 consecutive arrivals on 09L at LHR one afternoon a couple of years back:
When a single-aisle aircraft on finals was followed by another single-aisle aircraft (69 occasions) the average aircraft spacing was 75.1 seconds.
When a single-aisle aircraft on finals was followed by a twin-aisle aircraft (23 occasions) the average aircraft spacing was 75.0 seconds.
When a twin-aisle aircraft on finals was followed by another twin-aisle aircraft (19 occasions) the average aircraft spacing was 100.1 seconds.
But when a twin-aisle aircraft on finals was followed by a single-aisle aircraft (24 occasions) the average aircraft spacing was 133.9 seconds.
So ignoring the availability of the appropriate long-haul metal and the disposal of the displaced short-haul aircraft, changing the use of a slot that is currently used for a single-aisle, short-haul aircraft to a twin-aisle, long-haul aircraft is not totally straight forward. This is because the long-haul aircraft will require between 33 and 80 per cent more air space on arrival and, I suspect, also on departure and that space may simply not be available.
This does not mean it cannot be done. But it is not as simple as it may at first seem. There is then the question as to whether there is an aircraft stand of the appropriate (larger) size available and whether the terminal passenger capacity is large enough (although before LHR T5 was opened LHR was handling around 60 million passengers a year with a total terminal capacity of 50 million).
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