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Pinnacle Seeking Wage/vacation Cuts  
User currently offlinestlgph From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 9390 posts, RR: 26
Posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 4640 times:

If you go to this website and click the document under 8/17/12 - you can read the latest SEC filing report from Pinnacle.

http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=131072&p=irol-sec

In short ... Pinnacle's seeking $76 million in targeted costs and one of the big ways they're looking to do it is wage reductions of 6% for non union employees, cutting back on 401K matching and health care plan options, and also looking to cut back vacation time by one week per eligible employee.

Pretty certain that's going to send a lot of people looking for other jobs, I could be wrong, but I personally wouldn't stick that out ... but good luck to the ones who decide to stick it out.

Also in the report, the ceo says their chapter 11 filing was due to a loss of flying by Delta for their 50 seaters, and rivals undercutting cost operations for their 76 seaters.

As I write this, Pinnacle shares are at 43 cents.

Good luck Pinnacle employees.

[Edited 2012-08-17 10:56:56]


if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
41 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineRiverCityFlyer From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 10 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 4570 times:

This is going to be an interesting ride. Not only for the employees, but for PNCL as a whole. Best of luck!

User currently offlinenorcal From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 2459 posts, RR: 5
Reply 2, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 4471 times:

Quoting stlgph (Thread starter):

Actually I think the pilots are the ones that are going to take it in the shorts, not non-union employees. Pinnacle management want the pilots to contribute $59.6 million annually in give backs. That's the lion share of what the company "needs."

I think Pinnacle will cease to exist when all their pilots bail and head to the majors and there is no one left who wants to work under their term sheet.


User currently offlinestlgph From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 9390 posts, RR: 26
Reply 3, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 4459 times:

Quoting norcal (Reply 2):

Totally agree. They mention how they need to bring their CRJ-900 costs in alignment with their rivals ... the writing is right there... the water is churning.



if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
User currently offlinefutureualpilot From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2605 posts, RR: 8
Reply 4, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 4421 times:

The terms for the pilots are a freaking joke. So many hard working people, both above and below the wing that have to bear the brunt of piss poor management. For anyone who inks this is even remotely the union's fault I can tell you first hand this one rests solely on management ineptitude. Best of luck to all of the rank and file there. You all deserve better. Management ought to be ashamed to show up at work every day.


Life is better when you surf.
User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6688 posts, RR: 12
Reply 5, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 4416 times:

According to wikipedia :

On February 24, 2012, Pinnacle wanted to invoke a 5% permanent pay cut for all pilots - a move which CEO Sean Menke insisted was necessary to prevent the company from filing for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection. Less than a month later on March 21 of 2012 however, Menke was given a 60% pay raise from $425,000 to $675,000 along with executive vice president John Spanjers receiving a 45% raise from $275,000 to $400,000. Ten days later, Pinnacle filed for Chapter 11 on April 1, 2012.

When will they learn ?



New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlinefutureualpilot From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2605 posts, RR: 8
Reply 6, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 4353 times:

Don't forget signing money losing contracts on the CRJ-900s and not performing due diligence to see that the Q400 contract wouldn't be sustainable with what amounted to be a very average pilot contract. Piss poor day to day operations, terrible long term training implementation, scheduling that made no sense, maintenance band-aids rather than fixes, an ill-timed headquarters move to a new and hugely expensive location, running three SOCs and failing to integrate them for more than a year, failing to properly staff the place leading to even more costs, consistent and egregious payroll errors, enormous raises for top tier executives (one of whom left the company anyway) and a "consulting fee" for the deposed CEO that bungled everything up in the first place, refusing to renegotiate with ALPA despite the union having developed a plan that would save more money and maintain pilot pay without slashing pay or work rules as Ch. 11 became increasingly imminent, and more.

[Edited 2012-08-17 12:28:16]

[Edited 2012-08-17 12:32:59]


Life is better when you surf.
User currently offlinetoltommy From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3295 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 3996 times:

Quoting stlgph (Thread starter):
wage reductions of 6% for non union employees

This can't be right. How many non-union employees are left? The PinnPro rampers were USW. They've all been let go. The pilots are ALPA.
The FA's were AFA (pre merger Mesaba) and USW (pre merger Pinnacle), and a recent election selected AFA as the union for all.
Pinnacle mechanics were non-union (IIRC), Mesaba mechanics were AMFA.

Where are the savings coming from?


User currently offlinethegreatRDU From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2310 posts, RR: 4
Reply 8, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 3969 times:

Sucks.....it would've demoralized the sh*t out of me.....   


Our Returning Champion
User currently offlinePHLapproach From Philippines, joined Mar 2004, 1244 posts, RR: 20
Reply 9, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 3924 times:

Quoting toltommy (Reply 7):
This can't be right. How many non-union employees are left? The PinnPro rampers were USW. They've all been let go. The pilots are ALPA.
The FA's were AFA (pre merger Mesaba) and USW (pre merger Pinnacle), and a recent election selected AFA as the union for all.
Pinnacle mechanics were non-union (IIRC), Mesaba mechanics were AMFA.

Where are the savings coming from?

Likely the tons of middle managers and office people that all airlines are riddled with.


User currently offlinetoltommy From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3295 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 3900 times:

Quoting PHLapproach (Reply 9):
Likely the tons of middle managers and office people that all airlines are riddled with.

Okay, how many could a small airline like Pinnacle have? 500? 1000? How many could there really be? Pinnacle isn't that big....


User currently offlineFlight152 From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 3400 posts, RR: 6
Reply 11, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 3330 times:

I quite frankly find it disturbing that this thread only has ten posts on a topic started two days ago. There are literally hundreds of posts on meaningless conversation about a new livery or speculation on an aircrafts' profitability, while this is dire situation for hundreds of pilot’s and other airline employees barely register on the radar of an airline enthusiast forum. It’s almost as if people here don’t even care that the decisions made about these concessions could affect Pinnacle, and the very being of every other regional for years to come.

The people of Pinnacle deserve better and yet another colossal fu*k of by management has forced these terms upon those who safely fly our loved ones around each and every day. Carry on airliners.net, I’m sure another thread on starting up the 757 production line should catch everyone’s attention.

[Edited 2012-08-19 12:39:06]

User currently offlineASFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2005, 1175 posts, RR: 3
Reply 12, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 3308 times:

Quoting Flight152 (Reply 11):
I quite frankly find it disturbing that this thread only has ten posts on a topic started two days ago. There are literally hundreds of posts on meaningless conversation about a new livery or speculation on an aircrafts' profitability, while this is dire situation for hundreds of pilot’s and other airline employees barely register on the radar of an airline enthusiast forum. It’s almost as if people here don’t even care that the decisions made about these concessions could affect Pinnacle, and the very being of every other regional for years to come.

The people of Pinnacle deserve better and yet another colossal fu*k of by management has forced these terms upon those who safely fly our loved ones around each and every day. Carry on airliners.net, I’m sure another thread on starting up the 757 production line should catch everyone’s attention.

In case you hadn't been paying attention, most of the airline enthusiasts at this site could care less about the employees of the airlines they all slobber over. In fact, at this site, there is a very large anti-union/employee sentiment. Anytime pay cuts / work rule changes come up the blame always solely rests at the feet of the evil, bad unions that dare to try to provide decent quality of life for their members. It's never managements fault, always the unions. So yeah, it doesn't surprise me one bit that nobody cares about the employees at Pinnacle. If anything, I would have expected this to devolve into the normal union bashing forum by arm chair airline manager/enthusiasts here.


User currently offlineazjubilee From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 3942 posts, RR: 28
Reply 13, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 3293 times:

July 1, 2010 was the beginning of colossal debacle. The sale of Mesaba should never have happened. Now, there are 2 less airlines in this train wreck and mgmt has bungled this merger from the very beginning. At every turn of events, mgmt managed to screw it up. Delta isn't innocent in this drama either, since they're the ones that started this whole process to begin with. One of the worst things is that this is Ch 11 #2 for many of the XJ people still there and they will get screwed the most of this bankruptcy. They saw the least (if any) gains with the new joint contract, arguably got the biggest screwing in the SLI and now they're going to give up again? This whole thing is disgusting. Pinnacle and Colgan folks saw huge gains and now have to give up to the point where it will be worse than when they arrived? Also disgusting. In the end, everyone is still getting screwed by what Phil T and his cronies started. Glad I'm gone and best of luck to my former colleagues.

User currently offlineRJNUT From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 1227 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 3275 times:

Quoting ASFlyer (Reply 12):
In case you hadn't been paying attention, most of the airline enthusiasts at this site could care less about the employees of the airlines they all slobber over.

huh..i agree.... i was part and parcel part of the Pinnacle debacle as I was one of the orginal Republic Express I employees in MEM in 1985(the Mike Brady Bunch) and even then it was an employee nightmare! so i have followed this story for decades and , I too,am glad I said "sayonara" to this cherade!


User currently offlineFlyingSux From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 50 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 3255 times:

Quoting ASFlyer (Reply 12):
In case you hadn't been paying attention, most of the airline enthusiasts at this site could care less about the employees of the airlines they all slobber over.

   Cha-ching! You coulnd't be more correct! That's why this site irritates me so much.   


User currently offlineFlyingSux From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 50 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 3202 times:

Comair, Regional Elite, Pinnacle ... the whole industry is a disgrace. Nowhere else is it completely acceptable for employees to constantly give, give, give. These people bust their a$$ while management, telling them to keep up the good work and be proud of the job they're doing, walks away with over-stuffed pockets. For years I've said it will get better, but I was wrong - there is no end in sight. I don't work for any of them, but my days are numbered too, and I'm glad!

User currently offlineNWAESC From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 3391 posts, RR: 9
Reply 17, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 3112 times:

Quoting Flight152 (Reply 11):
Quoting ASFlyer (Reply 12):

Best. Posts. Ever.



"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
User currently offlineNWAdeicer From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 174 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 2980 times:

Quoting Flight152 (Reply 11):
Carry on airliners.net, I’m sure another thread on starting up the 757 production line should catch everyone’s attention.

But will they have AVOD and real cloth napkins for the Aluminum Elites?



I miss the Red Tail
User currently onlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23077 posts, RR: 20
Reply 19, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 2907 times:

Quoting FlyingSux (Reply 16):
hese people bust their a$$ while management, telling them to keep up the good work and be proud of the job they're doing, walks away with over-stuffed pockets.

Which manager(s) at Pinnacle are paid too much?

I think this post misses the point. The point isn't that any manager is raiding Pinnacle. The point is that in the race to the bottom, lots of things - including wages for front line employees - get squeezed. I see that as a legacy problem, not a Pinnacle management problem, however.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineFlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6618 posts, RR: 24
Reply 20, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 2855 times:

Quoting Flight152 (Reply 11):
Carry on airliners.net, I’m sure another thread on starting up the 757 production line should catch everyone’s attention.

To be fair, Pinnacle isn't a "real" airline in the eyes of most people. Pinnacle doesn't sell tickets, doesn't control it's product or have a say where it flies. When pay cuts/layoffs have come up in threads about most major airlines, it gets lots of attention, so I don't think this board ignores employee welfare.

Granted, I don't think employee welfare is the highest priority on a.net...but that's true of most customer/employee relationships. Do most people buying iPhones care about the sweatshops that the people manufacturing iPhones work in? No. Do most people shopping at Wal-Mart care about the crap pay/benefits of Wal-Mart workers? No.

Quoting FlyingSux (Reply 16):
Comair, Regional Elite, Pinnacle ... the whole industry is a disgrace.

There is a silver lining however in that conditions at most of the majors are slowly starting to get better (AA the only exception because of being late to the restructuring game). And to be fair, employees at the regionals (particularly pilots) have been their own worst enemies. They've been willing to accept crap conditions for the hope of eventually getting on with the majors and "cashing in".


User currently offlineAcey559 From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 1535 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 2771 times:

I read the term sheet last week (EGL ALPA decided they should send it to us in an effort to say, "See, our 1113 isn't that bad." Great move.  ) Anyway, I feel for all the folks at Pinnacle, they're really being served up a crap sandwich. I heard they're losing 50-60 pilots a month who are fed up with all this BS. Some are getting on with the majors that are hiring or corporate and some I guess are leaving the industry altogether. It's a bumpy road but hopefully they can come together and do what's best for themselves and get some semblance of a career back.

User currently offlinedtwpilot225 From United States of America, joined Dec 2011, 137 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 5 days ago) and read 2589 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

when someone buys a delta ticket, there is a good chance they will fly on pinnacle so they SHOULD care about what the pilots are making. There is no reason pinnacle should be in chapter 11, its a sham to begin with. It all started with the purchase of colgan and then mesaba. Their management chose to grow by aquiring rather then from within. They didnt even seek concessions before they decided to get rid of the q400's which shows that everything happening to pinnacle has been planned out by delta years ago probably. As employees trying to provide for familes, pinnacle employees have to work through the stress to provide safe flights for the public. The wage and health insurance cuts being proposed to them will take them back to rates that were worse than their 1999 CONTRACT!!!!
Undercutting has to stop. Its going to lead to undercutting peoples safety and lives.


User currently offlinesaab2000 From Switzerland, joined Jun 2001, 1610 posts, RR: 11
Reply 23, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 2564 times:

Quoting Flight152 (Reply 11):
I quite frankly find it disturbing that this thread only has ten posts on a topic started two days ago. There are literally hundreds of posts on meaningless conversation about a new livery or speculation on an aircrafts' profitability, while this is dire situation for hundreds of pilot’s and other airline employees barely register on the radar of an airline enthusiast forum. It’s almost as if people here don’t even care that the decisions made about these concessions could affect Pinnacle, and the very being of every other regional for years to come.

This is why this forum is largely a waste of time. They care more about cheatlines in liveries than about actual airlines flying actual passengers. This is amplified when it is a 'regional' airline, most of which in the US are larger than some national carriers that get a lot of attention here.

My 'regional' airline is almost as big as my former national carrier (and operates more daily flights if I'm not mistaken) and yet is virtually unknown.

Just spend time lurking and educating yourself, but don't expect the average airline fanboy to be really very knowledgeable about actual airline business operations.



smrtrthnu
User currently offlinebahadir From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 1794 posts, RR: 10
Reply 24, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 2518 times:

This is what corporate America has become.. Take away more and more from employees and give more and more to shareholders. (I don't know why would anyone get PNCL shares but that's a different story)


Earthbound misfit I
25 bobnwa : The AVOD message will also want to know about Delta's 764's .
26 Cubsrule : Is there some evidence that the regional race to the bottom has created shareholder value? It certainly has not at companies like Pinnacle.
27 XJET : I understand your point, however what other options to regional pilots have? If we want to have a career we have to start somewhere. Major airlines a
28 FlyPNS1 : Admittedly, you guys are in a tough position. You did have one other option, but it would have been difficult to pull off. Back when Comair pilots fo
29 KingAir200 : I can't agree with that enough.
30 XJET : That would have been very difficult to pull off. But... ACA and Air Wisconsin did pull this off. They had great contracts in place for their pilots.
31 Mir : The legacies are involved in it, to be sure, but Pinnacle's management did a horrible job, as futureualpilot detailed in Reply 6. It has created shar
32 Goldenshield : In a perfect world, the regionals would be doing their own flying again, doing what they are doing now, except with their own brand, not being told w
33 Cubsrule : Which legacies? Not AA, UA, US, DL or NW, all of whose shareholders took at least one hair cut via bankruptcy since the regional jet era began. If it
34 XJET : No of course it isn't. I worded my statement poorly. I actually agree with you. I think the regionals should be what Bar Harbor, Rocky Mountain, PBA,
35 Mir : I suspect the damage at the legacies would have been even worse had the regionals not been there. -Mir
36 Cubsrule : Maybe. But the fact that you and I suspect it doesn't make it so. Airline management is somewhere that people who like airplanes hang out. By and lar
37 Post contains images XJET : Just another point to consider regarding the relationship between majors and their regional "partners". We all know 50 seat jets have become incredib
38 enilria : Originally they said the CRJ-200 part of their operation was the only part under a good contract and they used that to justify getting rid of the com
39 bahadir : The difference is an unemployed CEO/COO still sends his kids to private school, an unemployed regional pilot suffers quite a bit. Heck, we even have
40 dtwpilot225 : Mehnke and christie knew exactly what was going on when they came here. They were brought in to be the outside party that would change pinnacle into m
41 Cubsrule : . . . and yet both parties make much less money than they could doing similarly skilled jobs in other sectors. It's a fascinating dynamic.
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