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IB/AB & AZ Eyeing SFO?  
User currently offlineolddominion727 From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 378 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 5849 times:

I was reading an article in the SF Chronicle last week about how OW is really trying to get another international presence in SFO to take on *A. IF that happens analysts were saying ST would need to woo AZ back to SFO to compete against them both... Of course *A is the largest operator at SFO but ST isn't too shabby, ST flies to HNL, TYO, PAR & AMS n/s from SFO, with AZ they would add MIL or ROM... which would be great service.

OW is hardly represented with only 3 international destinations: TYO, HKG, LON... IB/AB would make it a smidge more competitive out of SFO but would that take away from 2x daily BA traffic through to continental Europe?

I am curious where IB/AB would get the frames?

Is the one reporter's pipe dream?

23 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7210 posts, RR: 17
Reply 1, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 5842 times:

Quoting olddominion727 (Thread starter):
with AZ they would add MIL or ROM... which would be great service.

I'm half-surprised that AZ hasn't had any service to FCO from SFO yet. I'd think it would be a good route, load wise. Yield wise (those infamous words) I haven't a clue.



One of the FB admins for PHX Spotters. "Zach the Expat!"
User currently offlineN782NC From United States of America, joined Feb 2012, 70 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 5816 times:

Not to nitpick but LAN Peru and Air Berlin fly to LIM and DUS respectively as well.

IMO, I don't see OW expanding much beyond what they already have at SFO. Maybe extra frequencies and upguaging by the current carriers, but not much else. If we're lucky maybe a BA A380.

Maybe with the JV in full swing Iberia will take a crack at SFO sometime in the next few years. Quite a few carriers starting/resuming flights into SFO the last couple years...



Stairway to Seven
User currently offlineolddominion727 From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 378 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 5794 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 1):

AZ USED TO FLY SFOMIL with a 767 nonstop, I have pics of it. Granted it was about 15 years ago.


User currently offlineolddominion727 From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 378 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 5776 times:

Quoting N782NC (Reply 2):

you are right about LAN I have a pic somewhere in my personal archive of the 763 with winglets. Does AB fly into SFO? It would make sense for IB to take a crack at it. Really then OW is slightly behind *A (not by the number of cities) but by the continents...

Interesting. Still seems like a pipe dream of a reporter in the travel section... maybe not. I don't believe anything until I see it pull up and park...  

Thanks for the info


User currently offlineas739x From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 6097 posts, RR: 23
Reply 5, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 5742 times:

Quoting olddominion727 (Reply 4):

AB currently fly's 2 weekly SFO-DUS

AZ will most likely never return. Its a very long low yield market to Italy.

BA In my opinion will fly the A380 seasonally to SFO, when they have enough 380's in the fleet.

LanPeru currently is 5 weekly I believe and doing very well.



"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8752 posts, RR: 5
Reply 6, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 5719 times:
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LAN Perú operates the route as GRU-LIM-SFO and code-shares with Cathay Pacific at SFO. CX code-shares on LAN's LIM-SFO route and LAN code-shares on Cathay's SFO-HKG service.

User currently offlinelegacyins From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2054 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 5703 times:

ST member China Eastern is starting PVG-SFO next April.

OP, can you provide a link to the story. I would be interested in reading it.

[Edited 2012-08-17 17:43:42]


John@SFO
User currently offlinesfoa380 From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 165 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 5695 times:

Quoting as739x (Reply 5):
AZ will most likely never return. Its a very long low yield market to Italy.

Couldn't be too much worse than LAX. The same was said about the on again / off again start of SK to CPH. We'll see how that does. Judging by the sheer number of Italians in San Francisco and how much they spend...AZ should give SFO a crack.


User currently offlineas739x From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 6097 posts, RR: 23
Reply 9, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 5587 times:

Quoting sfoa380 (Reply 8):

SK has a huge Star feed now at SFO. There is not much difference between CPH and HEL and Helsinki failed quickly when operated by Finnair. SK will be much more successful.

AZ has tried and failed at SFO. They have more feed and a larger population base in LAX. And the large amount of Italians in SF is not a great argument, example (A) Aer Lingus which had the huge Irish population, a shorter flight then Italy and UA feed and failed. I can be proven wrong, but don't see a return of AZ.



"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
User currently offlineLONGisland89 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 731 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 5407 times:

What are some of the largest int'l markets not served from SFO?

User currently offlineolddominion727 From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 378 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 5323 times:

Quoting LONGisland89 (Reply 10):

I think some of the largest markets would be SAO, ADL, MAA, SIN, SGN, HAN, MEL, MAD, ROM, BRU, TLV... on the whole, I think SFO really does have a great choice of markets. With SJC having the 2nd largest Vietnamese population outside of Vietnam, I think VN would do wonderfully there, adding another link the ST chain. Correct me if I am wrong, but VN could currently operate one of their A330's or 777's into SJC a few times a week and do quite well. But I think UA would have a FIT if that occurred. Besides, SFO has more of an international draw for connecting traffic. DL could feed VN flights quite nicely in SFO with their 7 or 8 connection cities...


User currently offlinebioyuki From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 156 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 5251 times:

Quoting olddominion727 (Reply 11):
Correct me if I am wrong, but VN could currently operate one of their A330's or 777's into SJC a few times a week and do quite well.

VN has never operated in the United States.



Next flight: UA 726/84 SFO-EWR-TLV
User currently offlineLIPZ From Austria, joined Jun 2006, 1075 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 4985 times:

AZ could eventually come back to SFO on a seasonal base (Apr-Oct), the route during the summer should work fine since SFO is one of the largest markets in U.S.A. from Rome (and Italy in general).

AZ used to fly MXP-SFO during late '90s, then they dropped it in 2000 or 2001, I guess it was the longest route with their 767s at the time.


User currently offlineTalaier From Spain, joined May 2008, 490 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 4892 times:

I know for sure that Spanish institutions are very fond of a direct flight given the increasing traffic arising from the technology business between Spain & SFO (as well as Europe in general). They have been pressuring IB quite a bit to open a direct flight between MAD and SFO for some time.

IMO, with the ATI in place a 3-4x weekly MAD-SFO flight would work given the large feed into Europe (esp. France and Italy) that IB has in its network. However chances of that happening before LAX consolidates itself and reaches at least 1 or 2 extra weekly frequencies and/or AA takes over BOS freeing up an extra plane are slim.


User currently offlineUALWN From Andorra, joined Jun 2009, 2754 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 4850 times:

Quoting olddominion727 (Reply 3):
AZ USED TO FLY SFOMIL with a 767 nonstop, I have pics of it. Granted it was about 15 years ago.
Quoting LIPZ (Reply 13):
AZ used to fly MXP-SFO during late '90s, then they dropped it in 2000 or 2001, I guess it was the longest route with their 767s at the time.

MXP-SFO operated until shortly after 9/11. I lived in San Francisco at the time, and had some friends visiting from Milan the week before 9/11 who came on that flight. They ended up staying with us longer than they intended...



AT7/111/146/Avro/CRJ/CR9/EMB/ERJ/E75/F50/100/L15/DC9/D10/M8X/717/727/737/747/757/767/777/AB6/310/319/320/321/330/340/380
User currently offlineMFC From Spain, joined Feb 2006, 261 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 4032 times:

I'm sure IB will fly to SFO once LAX is consolidated and there will be enough fleet available and economics improve. Maybe in 2 or 3 years...


So, we beat on, boats against the current, borne back ceaselessly into the past
User currently offlineaal151heavy From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 99 posts, RR: 4
Reply 17, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 3646 times:
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If you guys don't mind some self-plugging:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Ben Wang


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Ben Wang


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Ben Wang



Ben


User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8752 posts, RR: 5
Reply 18, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks ago) and read 2972 times:
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Quoting aal151heavy (Reply 17):

Here are some good photos of LA2809 departing SFO for LIM and GRU:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Ben Wang


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Ben Wang



User currently offlineKaiTak747 From Switzerland, joined Aug 2012, 157 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 2597 times:

Quoting bioyuki (Reply 12):
I think some of the largest markets would be SAO, ADL, MAA, SIN, SGN, HAN, MEL, MAD, ROM, BRU, TLV... on the whole, I think SFO really does have a great choice of markets. With SJC having the 2nd largest Vietnamese population outside of Vietnam, I think VN would do wonderfully there, adding another link the ST chain. Correct me if I am wrong, but VN could currently operate one of their A330's or 777's into SJC a few times a week and do quite well. But I think UA would have a FIT if that occurred. Besides, SFO has more of an international draw for connecting traffic. DL could feed VN flights quite nicely in SFO with their 7 or 8 connection cities...

I agree, that is a logical first destination in the US for VT. East coast I would imagine is too far. The biggest problem would be filling the front of the plane, I don't think there would be enough premium traffic, instead mostly VFR and tourists.


User currently offlineEddieDude From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 7561 posts, RR: 43
Reply 20, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 2138 times:

Quoting olddominion727 (Thread starter):
ST flies to HNL, TYO, PAR & AMS n/s from SFO, with AZ they would add MIL or ROM... which would be great service.

I think you are forgetting AM's MEX-SFO. AM is a founding SkyTeam member.



Next flights: MEX-GRU (AM 77E), GRU-GIG (JJ A320), SDU-CGH (G3 73H), GRU-MEX (JJ A332).
User currently offlinelegacyins From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2054 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 2056 times:

I see the growth of Sky Team at SFO more than OneWorld. Delta is now the second largest carrier at SFO, passenger wise. ST has, DL,AF,KL,AM, MU (starting April), KE. I do not forsee AZ returning to SFO. They are only seasonal (?) into LAX.

Star will always be the largest carrier and will continue to grow, IMO.



John@SFO
User currently onlineusflyer msp From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2107 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 2038 times:

I doubt growing at SFO is a priority for OW but an IB (or any other carrier) MAD-SFO would be a horrible performer. There is pretty much no local market (especially in the premium cabins) despite the connectivity on the MAD end and the length means it burns a lot of fuel. Heck, the jury is still out on MAD-LAX which is a much more lucrative market.

User currently offlinemikeology From United States of America, joined Mar 2012, 124 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 1750 times:

Quoting as739x (Reply 5):
AB currently fly's 2 weekly SFO-DUS

3 X weekly. Monday, Wednesday & Friday.

Quoting olddominion727 (Thread starter):
I was reading an article in the SF Chronicle last week about how OW is really trying to get another international presence in SFO to take on *A. IF that happens analysts were saying ST would need to woo AZ back to SFO to compete against them both... Of course *A is the largest operator at SFO but ST isn't too shabby, ST flies to HNL, TYO, PAR & AMS n/s from SFO, with AZ they would add MIL or ROM... which would be great service.

Link to article? Can't find on SFGate


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