Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
SQ Changes GRU-BCN Timing To 1745 Departure. How?  
User currently offlineDocpepz From Singapore, joined May 2001, 1968 posts, RR: 3
Posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 6572 times:

SIA has changed their GRU-BCN Timing as follows (As per their booking engine)

Singapore – Barcelona – Sao Paulo
Schedule from Northern Winter 2012
SQ068 SIN2345 – 0645+1BCN0805+1 – 1615+1GRU 77W 357
SQ067 GRU1745 – 0710+1BCN0915+1 – 0500+2SIN 77W 146

Current Schedule
SQ068 SIN0020 – 0720BCN0840 – 1655GRU 77W 146
SQ067 GRU0225 – 1550BCN1710 – 1255+1SIN 77W 257

This means the plane can turn around in GRU in just 90 mins, and negates the nearly 9 hour turnaround today which should help utilisation very well. It also ensures better connections for BCN-SIN pax who wish to go directly to Australian and NZ, which under the previous schedule had a 6-8 hour transit time in SIN.

Considering GRU is heavily slot constrained, how did SIA miraculously get that slot?

IB's BCN-GRU-BCN flights continue to operate twice a week with the following timings:


GRUBCN Depart 13:45 Arrive 05:45

BCN GRU

Wed Depart 23:50 Arrive 06:20
Fri Depart 21:00 Arrive 03:30

28 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineRAGAZZO777 From Uruguay, joined Jul 2010, 579 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 2 days ago) and read 6484 times:

Quoting Docpepz (Thread starter):
IB's BCN-GRU-BCN flights continue to operate twice a week with the following timings:


Rumour has it that IB will suspend its BCN-GRU flights come the northern winter timetable.

[Edited 2012-08-18 02:49:49]


JESÚS, TE AMO !!
User currently offlineDocpepz From Singapore, joined May 2001, 1968 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 2 days ago) and read 6434 times:

When I flew SIN-BCN-GRU in December, Only 32 of 222 pax originated in SIN. Everyone else originated in Barcelona, and there were no Spanish or Portuguese speaking cabin crew on board. Menus were in English and Spanish, though I understand SQ has since added Portuguese.

User currently offlineTalaier From Spain, joined May 2008, 490 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 2 days ago) and read 6392 times:

Quoting RAGAZZO777 (Reply 1):
Rumour has it that IB will suspend its BCN-GRU flights come the northern winter timetable.

That is my understanding as well though we could be easily surprised.

Quoting Docpepz (Reply 2):
When I flew SIN-BCN-GRU in December, Only 32 of 222 pax originated in SIN. Everyone else originated in Barcelona, and there were no Spanish or Portuguese speaking cabin crew on board. Menus were in English and Spanish, though I understand SQ has since added Portuguese.

No surprise here, this route without the fifth-freedom rights had absolutely no future. With EK and QR flying to BCN, SQ must have seen a fall in the amount of connecting traffic to SE Asia/OZ.


User currently offlineUALWN From Andorra, joined Jun 2009, 2674 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 6321 times:

Quoting Docpepz (Reply 2):
Menus were in English and Spanish, though I understand SQ has since added Portuguese.

I took the BCN-SIN-BCN legs of those flights last month and indeed menus and announcements were also in Portuguese.



AT7/111/146/Avro/CRJ/CR9/EMB/ERJ/E75/F50/100/L15/DC9/D10/M8X/717/727/737/747/757/767/777/AB6/310/319/320/321/330/340/380
User currently offlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3652 posts, RR: 19
Reply 5, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 6284 times:

Quoting Docpepz (Thread starter):
Considering GRU is heavily slot constrained, how did SIA miraculously get that slot?

Most slot restrictions have to do with parking stands and gate positions. The fact that SQ applied for immediate turnaround at GRU must have done the trick.


User currently offlineYYZAMS From Canada, joined Feb 2011, 213 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 4801 times:

Looks like this plane is utilized to the max! If there was a little delay on any of the segments (i.e. sin-bcn) then those in gru would definitely feel it.

User currently offlineDocpepz From Singapore, joined May 2001, 1968 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 3477 times:

The current SIN-Brazil ASA allows for 14 frequencies to Brazil by a Singaporean carrier, of which a maximum of 3 can be into GRU. SQ of course wants this route to go daily, I'm not sure who's going to lobby on their behalf seeing as Spanair in BCN is gone, and TAM is probably going to Oneworld.

I understand the Catalonian government lobbied on SQ's behalf (with Spanair of course) for this route.


User currently offlineTalaier From Spain, joined May 2008, 490 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 3049 times:

Quoting Docpepz (Reply 7):

The current SIN-Brazil ASA allows for 14 frequencies to Brazil by a Singaporean carrier, of which a maximum of 3 can be into GRU. SQ of course wants this route to go daily, I'm not sure who's going to lobby on their behalf seeing as Spanair in BCN is gone, and TAM is probably going to Oneworld.

I understand the Catalonian government lobbied on SQ's behalf (with Spanair of course) for this route.

If IB does end up pulling out of the route then we could see the Catalonian regional government lobbying authorities, but given the dismal fiscal position of the region and the demise of Spanair I would imagine there are other priorities on the table.

In any case, SQ would probably be better off moving this route to MAD and alternating between GIG and GRU.


User currently offlinesydbcn From Australia, joined Jan 2007, 34 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 2926 times:

There you go, the confirmation:




IBERIA Cancels Barcelona – Sao Paulo Service from late-Oct 2012

by JL


Update at 0155GMT 19AUG12

AS per 19AUG12 GDS Inventory display, IBERIA starting 31OCT12 is cancelling its two weekly Barcelona – Sao Paulo service. Reservation for this twice weekly service, launched on 19JUN11, is now closed.

Previously planned schedule in Northern Winter 2012 season:

IB6853 BCN2100 – 0330+1GRU 340 7
IB6853 BCN2350 – 0620+1GRU 340 3

IB6852 GRU1345 – 0535+1BCN 340 14



source: www.sirliners.net


The route is now solely for SQ. I do not sii how moving to MAD would work better for SQ, more I can see SQ having 3 flights each to GRU/GIG via BCN, so the flight can be detached from MXP

It is a pity IB cannot commit to BCN and leaves the pie for foreign carriers, although they have their own struggle and having just 2 long haul from BCN did not make sense. In the end they could not compete with SQ who are now quite established.

IB timing were very bad as well.

[Edited 2012-08-19 06:15:27]

User currently offlineDocpepz From Singapore, joined May 2001, 1968 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 2800 times:

Hmmm i find it very odd, IB has strong brand recognition in Brazil and Spain. I doubt most people in Brazil can point where Singapore is, and SQ has no home market advantage in either Spain or Brazil, would probably have low brand recognition. Further SQ has no Spanish nor Portuguese speaking cabin crew on board.

User currently offlineIBERIA747 From Spain, joined Aug 2003, 1831 posts, RR: 60
Reply 11, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 2727 times:

Quoting Docpepz (Reply 10):
Hmmm i find it very odd, IB has strong brand recognition in Brazil and Spain. I doubt most people in Brazil can point where Singapore is, and SQ has no home market advantage in either Spain or Brazil, would probably have low brand recognition. Further SQ has no Spanish nor Portuguese speaking cabin crew on board.

I don't think brand recognition is the problem here, but the lack of aircraft Iberia has been suffering for quite some time as well as their current financial situation. Hence, having only 2 long haul routes from Barcelona (and the cost of the frequent A340 rotations between MAD and BCN) may have not been the best idea and as we know, they have already pulled out of the BCN-MIA route which is now operated by AA.

IB is very well established on MAD-GRU flights anyway.



¡¡VIVA ESPAÑA!!
User currently offlineAF086 From France, joined Jan 2007, 1050 posts, RR: 9
Reply 12, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 2665 times:

Quoting Docpepz (Reply 10):
where Singapore is, and SQ has no home market advantage in either Spain or Brazil, would probably have low brand recognition. Further SQ has no Spanish nor Portuguese speaking cabin crew on board.

The problem is: IB has a bad reputation in Brazil. The airline is associated with a poor inflight product and rude crews. Also the problem with brazilians at spanish immigration checkpoints (mostly at MAD) also hurted Iberia's loads in Brazil since many brazilians are avoiding using Spain as their first stop and connecting point in Europe.



Please insert a "smart" joke here.
User currently offlineIBERIA747 From Spain, joined Aug 2003, 1831 posts, RR: 60
Reply 13, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 2554 times:

Quoting AF086 (Reply 12):
The problem is: IB has a bad reputation in Brazil. The airline is associated with a poor inflight product and rude crews. Also the problem with brazilians at spanish immigration checkpoints (mostly at MAD) also hurted Iberia's loads in Brazil since many brazilians are avoiding using Spain as their first stop and connecting point in Europe.

The above sounds more like a personal opinion (which of course is allowed, but can be misleading) than a proven fact. IB's BCN-GRU flights started a short time ago while the supposed problems encountered by brazilian nationals at Spanish passport controls have been around for years. Besides, it's not only brazilians that book those flights.

The problem is, as i pointed out on my previous post, that IB just doesn't have enough resources right now to keep those routes alive and want to focus on those routes that give them the highest yields. It's the same reason why they decided to let AA operate the flights between BCN and MIA.

They have cancelled several long haul routes in the last months (COR, FOR, REC, JNB, IAD) and reduced frequencies on others, as well as delayed an increase of flights to several destinations that was already planned. MAD-GIG, however, has become a daily operation.

Also, they have retired 3 A340-300 this year (EC-HDQ, EC-HGU, EC-HGX) without replacements and the entire company is about to face some serious restructuring and massive job cuts. And last, but not least, the current situation in Spain doesn't help either.

IB continues to operate 10x weekly flights between MAD and GRU. However, I have no idea if they will increase those flights once the BCN-GRU ops are over. If I remember correctly, they scaled down their MAD-GRU ops to make room for the BCN flights because, among other things, they didn't have enough aircraft to support so many flights.

[Edited 2012-08-19 10:31:39]


¡¡VIVA ESPAÑA!!
User currently offlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3652 posts, RR: 19
Reply 14, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 2464 times:

Quoting Docpepz (Reply 7):
The current SIN-Brazil ASA allows for 14 frequencies to Brazil by a Singaporean carrier, of which a maximum of 3 can be into GRU.

No, Singapore and Brazil have open skies.

Quoting IBERIA747 (Reply 13):
MAD-GIG, however, has become a daily operation.

MAD-GIG has been daily for at least a part of the year for years, but it is never year-round, like it isn't this year.


User currently offlineRodRB From Brazil, joined Feb 2010, 123 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 2437 times:

Quoting AF086 (Reply 12):
Also the problem with brazilians at spanish immigration checkpoints (mostly at MAD) also hurted Iberia's loads in Brazil since many brazilians are avoiding using Spain as their first stop and connecting point in Europe.

That's true. Everyone here is avoiding flying thru MAD even if it's your final destination. The immigration staff at MAD is rude and shows no respect with brazilian citizens.

I know some people that are flying GIG-LIS-MAD or GIG-CDG-MAD instead of GIG-MAD (and paying a lot more).


User currently offlineIBERIA747 From Spain, joined Aug 2003, 1831 posts, RR: 60
Reply 16, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 2370 times:

Quoting RodRB (Reply 15):
Quoting AF086 (Reply 12):
Also the problem with brazilians at spanish immigration checkpoints (mostly at MAD) also hurted Iberia's loads in Brazil since many brazilians are avoiding using Spain as their first stop and connecting point in Europe.

That's true.
Quoting RodRB (Reply 15):
The immigration staff at MAD is rude and shows no respect with brazilian citizens.

Definitely yes, according to Brazilian media.

What they don't mention, however, is that those who have faced problems upon entering Madrid account for less than 1% of the Brazilian nationals that have used Barajas as their port of entry. May happen anywhere no matter where your passport is from (and it does, actually) and it's no big deal as long as the government of the "offended country" doesn't want to make it a matter of national pride.

Anyway, and as far as I know, apparently the Spanish government recently told their Brazilian conterparts that they would ease up on requirements for Brazilian citizens to enter the EU through Spain, as long as it doesn't collide with Schengen regulations, of course, which were established due to the high rate of illegal immigration from Brazil that has entered the EU in recent years.

Quoting RodRB (Reply 15):
Everyone here is avoiding flying thru MAD

Everyone?. You mean...like, 10 out of 10?

My sister just came back from a 10-day trip to Brazil. Flew MAD-GRU on IB and GRU-MAD on JJ, and according to her, both flights were completely full and had lots of Brazilian travellers on board.

Anyway, let's try to stay on topic if we don't want moderators to lock the thread, as has happened recently with the TACA / Avianca one.

Regards.

[Edited 2012-08-19 12:02:57]


¡¡VIVA ESPAÑA!!
User currently offlinekaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12328 posts, RR: 35
Reply 17, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 2360 times:

Quoting Docpepz (Reply 10):
Hmmm i find it very odd, IB has strong brand recognition in Brazil and Spain. I doubt most people in Brazil can point where Singapore is, and SQ has no home market advantage in either Spain or Brazil, would probably have low brand recognition. Further SQ has no Spanish nor Portuguese speaking cabin crew on board.

Brand recognition only means that ! They recognise the brand - and run very quickly in the opposite direction. Have a look at reviews of IB long haul and you can see the kind of reports they get; it's not just Brazilians that get upset with IB. Iberia is very fair that way - they treat all long haul pax equally badly.

I would suggest that most international pax have heard of Singapore Airlines; we're living in the global village age and they would identify SQ as a provider of a high quality product and let's face it, if you're going to spend 12h with a company, who are going to choose? IB with its non-IFE A343s and its crews, or SQ, with its 77Ws - and SQ's crews. It's what the Americans call a no-brainer.


User currently offlineAF086 From France, joined Jan 2007, 1050 posts, RR: 9
Reply 18, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 2347 times:

Quoting IBERIA747 (Reply 13):
The above sounds more like a personal opinion (which of course is allowed, but can be misleading) than a proven fact. IB's BCN-GRU flights started a short time ago while the supposed problems encountered by brazilian nationals at Spanish passport controls have been around for years. Besides, it's not only brazilians that book those flights.

I'm speaking from a brazilian standpoint. Naturally this route is also flown by europeans, asians and so on. As for the problems with brazilians they happened and turned into a headache for IB since, as a retaliatory measure, the brazilian government starting to giving the same treatment to spanish passport holders. And we agree that brazilians and spanish citizens make a large chunk of the pax figures on these flights.


The results: a growing number of spanish citizens sent back to Spain from the border. Still not huge numbers but they increased. That put pressure on the spanish government who claims to be working closely with the brazilian diplomats to make matters more flexible for both sides.

This tense diplomatic situation bad for both brazilian and spanish companies.

Quoting RodRB (Reply 15):
That's true. Everyone here is avoiding flying thru MAD even if it's your final destination. The immigration staff at MAD is rude and shows no respect with brazilian citizens.

I know some people that are flying GIG-LIS-MAD or GIG-CDG-MAD instead of GIG-MAD (and paying a lot more).

So do I.

Quoting IBERIA747 (Reply 13):
MAD-GIG, however, has become a daily operation.

As Coiote stated: IB keeps shifting their GIG-MAD services between 6 and 7 weekly flights. Always in a daylight/redeye schedule which doesn't help the yields either.

Recently LH figured that out and from IATA Winter 12/13 will shift their daylight/redeye service to GIG to a double redeye flight.



Please insert a "smart" joke here.
User currently offlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3652 posts, RR: 19
Reply 19, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 2316 times:

Quoting IBERIA747 (Reply 16):
Definitely yes, according to Brazilian media.

That's enough to be an obstacle to Iberia's business.


User currently offlineRoseflyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9385 posts, RR: 52
Reply 20, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 2258 times:

Quoting Docpepz (Reply 10):
Hmmm i find it very odd, IB has strong brand recognition in Brazil and Spain. I doubt most people in Brazil can point where Singapore is, and SQ has no home market advantage in either Spain or Brazil, would probably have low brand recognition. Further SQ has no Spanish nor Portuguese speaking cabin crew on board.

SQ seems to try to make 5th freedom routes work. It's part of their strategy. They actually advertise that they serve 6 destinations nonstop from the US even though the network is scattered and exclusively point to point.



If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineIBERIA747 From Spain, joined Aug 2003, 1831 posts, RR: 60
Reply 21, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 2215 times:

Quoting C010T3 (Reply 19):
Quoting IBERIA747 (Reply 16):
Definitely yes, according to Brazilian media.

That's enough to be an obstacle to Iberia's business.

And that would also hurt TAM. However, both are still there.

Quoting AF086 (Reply 18):
as a retaliatory measure, the brazilian government starting to giving the same treatment to spanish passport holders.

Actually my sister entered GRU without being asked a single question. They just stamped her passport and she was on her way to BSB.



¡¡VIVA ESPAÑA!!
User currently offlineRodRB From Brazil, joined Feb 2010, 123 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 2189 times:

Quoting IBERIA747 (Reply 16):
of course, which were established due to the high rate of illegal immigration from Brazil that has entered the EU in recent years

It looks like they are trying to blame someone for the financial crisis. Sending brazilians (and others) back home will not solve the problem.

Quoting IBERIA747 (Reply 16):
Everyone?. You mean...like, 10 out of 10?

10 out 10 people that I know are avoiding IB. I'll be flying to Europe next week and I'm paying more 300 USD to avoid flying thru Spain.

Quoting Docpepz (Thread starter):
SQ068 SIN2345 – 0645+1BCN0805+1 – 1615+1GRU 77W 357
SQ067 GRU1745 – 0710+1BCN0915+1 – 0500+2SIN 77W 146

Can they turn around in only 90 minutes? Don't forget that Infraero will always try to slow things down.


User currently offlineAF086 From France, joined Jan 2007, 1050 posts, RR: 9
Reply 23, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 2132 times:

Quoting IBERIA747 (Reply 21):
Actually my sister entered GRU without being asked a single question. They just stamped her passport and she was on her way to BSB.

She was lucky. It happens. Same way the other way round: sometimes brazilians don't face problems with immigration checkpoints at Barajas. But the PR damage has already been made.

Quoting IBERIA747 (Reply 21):
And that would also hurt TAM. However, both are still there.

True. But of all of JJ's european routes, MAD is the weakest.

The thing is: this problem is happening for too long. At first the brazilian government requested the spanish authorities to "offer brazilians a more fair treatment". Madrid acknowledged and promised to address that. Nothing happened. The brazilian government asked Madrid again but this time stating that it would give spanish passport holders the same treatment brazilians get.

The repercussions were swift, specially at the brazilian Northeast, with larger numbers of spaniards been sent back home. Then Madrid decided to negotiate and truly do something about that. The situration appears to be improving (or stopped getting worse).

Quoting RodRB (Reply 22):
Can they turn around in only 90 minutes? Don't forget that Infraero will always try to slow things down.

That's one big question. 90 minutes seems to be really tight all things considered.



Please insert a "smart" joke here.
User currently offlineIBERIA747 From Spain, joined Aug 2003, 1831 posts, RR: 60
Reply 24, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 2100 times:

Quoting RodRB (Reply 22):
It looks like they are trying to blame someone for the financial crisis. Sending brazilians (and others) back home will not solve the problem.

Wow...

Using your logic, we are trying to solve our problems by sending back home less than 1% of the Brazilians that have arrived to our territory (which is what has happened so far despite the scandal made by the brazilian media). Sorry to burst your bubble, but NOBODY in Europe is blaming Brazilians (and others) for the current financial crisis, which is what you're saying. Otherwise, we would be talking about massive deportations, which is not the case (and WON'T be), whether you like it or not.

Get your facts straight, man, and cool down before typing, because what you just said is pretty ridiculous.

Quoting RodRB (Reply 22):
10 out 10 people that I know are avoiding IB.

So, once again according to your logic, the problems for Brazilians are only for those flying IB and not those arriving in JJ?.   

I mean...this is what you said on a previous reply:

Quoting RodRB (Reply 15):
Everyone here is avoiding flying thru MAD even if it's your final destination

And since 10 out of 10 people that you know are avoiding IB/MAD (which one is it going to be?), then I have to wonder where do the Brazilians arriving to Spain in either IB or JJ come from...??

Again...cool down, man.

Quoting RodRB (Reply 22):
I'll be flying to Europe next week and I'm paying more 300 USD to avoid flying thru Spain.

Enjoy the trip!



¡¡VIVA ESPAÑA!!
25 IBERIA747 : Which is what happens in the majority of cases. Agreed. That's what a tabloid can do. Argentina was the first country to start complaining about "the
26 Talaier : IB has a problem indeed. Thankfully it's not with J, it's with Y. However, there is a reason why despite its Y product offering being subpar with man
27 Rafabozzolla : And that is a pity indeed. I've flow IB's J product before and it is very good. The hard product with full flat all front facing seats is really indu
28 Talaier : It is, but that is how the company has been run for many years. If things are turning a profit, why improve? Y should improve starting Jan 2013, whic
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
SQ Eyes SIN-BCN-GRU posted Sat Dec 5 2009 20:40:12 by C010T3
Summer CO/UA EWR-BCN Downgauged To 757 posted Mon Feb 27 2012 13:54:26 by IAHworldflyer
BSB, GRU And VCP To Become Private On Feb/6 posted Sun Feb 5 2012 21:18:16 by LipeGIG
SQ Explores Possible New Service To ARN posted Thu Jan 12 2012 05:32:26 by ARN
TAM Now Wants GRU BCN posted Wed Nov 10 2010 03:47:24 by skyteam2000
What Changes Did Delta Make To NW Premium Cabin? posted Mon Oct 11 2010 16:26:04 by washingtonian
TLV Airport To Lift Departure Curfew posted Mon Apr 12 2010 05:53:38 by AF022
SQ Changes A380 Schedules Ex-Australia posted Wed Feb 3 2010 09:17:58 by LondonCity
Kcvg To EHAM... In How Long?!?! posted Tue Jun 9 2009 14:24:56 by BalZ18
AA Changes DFW-JFK-DFW To 757 posted Fri Feb 20 2009 12:22:14 by LONGisland89