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Virgin Atlantic MAN-LHR-MAN Flights  
User currently offlinedavid_itl From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 7370 posts, RR: 14
Posted (2 years 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 26670 times:
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They've criticised the EU ruling regarding slot provision for the BA/BD domestic routes by excluding MAN from the slot divestiture and is planning a challenge to the ruling. Virgin Trains are doing 45 daily services between Piccadilly and Euston so the Commission said there was competition but come November, there'll be no Virgin trains. Can't see the business case for VS doing a MAN route given the limited choice of VS services at LHR unless they are gonig to get a raft of airlines to codeshare wiith them. Story in the Manchester Evening News

159 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinebestwestern From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2000, 7117 posts, RR: 57
Reply 1, posted (2 years 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 26350 times:

Sour grapes makes bad Whine.


The world is really getting smaller these days
User currently offlineAPYu From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2007, 837 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (2 years 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 26327 times:

From November there will still be trains - just run by another company - so still competition.


We'd like to welcome in particular our Executive Club members and those joining us from our Oneworld alliance partners.
User currently offlinebongodog1964 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2006, 3549 posts, RR: 3
Reply 3, posted (2 years 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 26315 times:

What a load of old waffle.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the reason that the EU didn't include MAN - LHR was that BD had already ceased operations on this route before IAG entered an agreement to purchase BD. On that basis BA gained a monopoly by default, not through a decision to buy out or price out the competition.

As to VS "seeking MAN-LHR rights" SRB makes it sound like the old days when you needed Government permission to operate a route, the answer is simple, buy some LHR slots, buy a short haul plane and he's free to lose as much money as he wants to !!

A few people might be listening to his rhetoric, but I doubt anyone in Whitehall is taking him seriously, especially after his outbursts after losing the West Coast Mainline franchise last week.


User currently offlineThomasCook From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 795 posts, RR: 8
Reply 4, posted (2 years 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 26033 times:

Quoting bongodog1964 (Reply 3):
Correct me if I'm wrong, but

bmi never ceased MAN-LHR and is technically still operating these services today albeit under BA*** flight numbers. In 2011, BD reduced service to 4 x daily.

Why be against it? It could result in more choice for us and could make for an interesting change.

ThomasCook



A380 Crew
User currently offlineAPYu From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2007, 837 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (2 years 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 25889 times:

Quoting ThomasCook (Reply 4):
Why be against it? It could result in more choice for us and could make for an interesting change

It would operate with such poor frequency for many users of the route it wouldnt really provide much additional choice if Virgin were to launch some sort of service.
IMHO the only company who might be big enough and agile enough to make such work would be Flybe who would need to launch 6+ round trips a day and be in bed with the right people at LHR to provide the essential connecting traffic.



We'd like to welcome in particular our Executive Club members and those joining us from our Oneworld alliance partners.
User currently offlinevirgincrew From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2004, 422 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (2 years 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 25905 times:

Quoting ThomasCook (Reply 4):
Why be against it? It could result in more choice for us and could make for an interesting change.

People on A.net are against it, because it's Virgin Atlantic & Sir Richard Branson.

I agree that he loves the press and does sometimes blow alot of hot air, but people are against anything VS & SRB do !

I agree though, he can't really use the Virgin Trains argument on the basis that there will be no services, because there will still be train services between Manchester, the West Coast and London, just not Virgin Trains. I think the argument should be that Virgin no longer have a presence of any kind in the West Coast in relation to connecting passengers to London Airports. Which will mean that BA will have the monopoly on the Manchester - London route.

Bottom line in this case, is to get more consumer choice on the MAN - LON routes.

I would still love to see some kind of Virgin Regional Airline, although for the success of it I think VS should attempt some codeshare or get another operator to operate the route but under a Virgin brand - at least until it proves successful or not.



[Edited 2012-08-20 03:12:52]

[Edited 2012-08-20 03:15:11]


Hello Beautiful !!!
User currently offlineThomasCook From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 795 posts, RR: 8
Reply 7, posted (2 years 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 25769 times:

Quoting APYu (Reply 5):
It would operate with such poor frequency for many users of the route it wouldnt really provide much additional choice if Virgin were to launch some sort of service.

Well that really does remain to be seen, and likely, nothing will materialise from it but I am glad he is speaking out about the gross loss of competition on several routes at LHR due to the BA/BD merger. Perhaps if Virgin cannot retain the WCML as it seems unlikely in any event to be able to do now, they will concentrate on building a shorthaul network. Perhaps they can fill the UK domestic and European Star Alliance gap left void by bmi's takeover. I know a lot of you say VS will not join an alliance but as recently as a couple of months ago, the same would be said for Emirates or Qatar, now that is looking increasingly likely from at least one of them.

Quoting virgincrew (Reply 6):
but people are against anything VS & SRB do

I don't understand this rationale on a.net. I am not the greatest VS fan but I admire that Branson speaks out when he's not happy even if many say he is 'spitting his dummy out'. Good on him for complaining rather then just rolling over and taking it...after all, that won't get you anywhere in the world nevermind, in business.



A380 Crew
User currently offlineMAN2SIN2BKK From Thailand, joined Feb 2009, 233 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (2 years 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 25720 times:

Is there anything except slot availability that would stop VS offering an "international" service so they cleared immigration etc at MAN and then feeding their flights at Terminal 3 without the need for terminal changes etc etc.

If I remember correctly didn't BA do this with their BA19/20 flight to HKG via Terminal 4


User currently offlinesteve6666 From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 401 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (2 years 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 25606 times:

Quoting virgincrew (Reply 6):
I think the argument should be that Virgin no longer have a presence of any kind in the West Coast in relation to connecting passengers to London Airports.

There is nothing stopping Branson agreeing a commercial co-operation with the First Group is there?

Quoting virgincrew (Reply 6):
Bottom line in this case, is to get more consumer choice on the MAN - LON routes.

You could drive MAN - LHR in little over two hours (albeit not particularly legally). And I would struggle to find a sane person not connecting to another flight at LHR who would not take the train.

Quoting ThomasCook (Reply 7):
I don't understand this rationale on a.net. I am not the greatest VS fan but I admire that Branson speaks out when he's not happy even if many say he is 'spitting his dummy out'.

Probably because when he speaks out it is normally to whinge about something detrimental to his own personal self interest, very thinly disguised as protecting consumer rights and upholding competition. See National Lottery, 2000 (?). And normally, that something was a piece of cheese that had long since been moved.

Quoting ThomasCook (Reply 7):
Good on him for complaining rather then just rolling over and taking it...after all, that won't get you anywhere in the world nevermind, in business.

God forbid he actually did something rather than just moan. All the moaning in the past 9 months about BA/Bmi and the West Coast Main Line doesn't appear to have got him anything either.



eu nasci ha dez mil anos atras, e nao tem nada nesse mundo que eu nao saiba demais
User currently offlinebestwestern From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2000, 7117 posts, RR: 57
Reply 10, posted (2 years 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 25569 times:

Quoting virgincrew (Reply 6):
People on A.net are against it, because it's Virgin Atlantic & Sir Richard Branson.

Branson is more than free to drop JFK services to start MAN if he wishes, but he won't because it makes no sense.

Quoting virgincrew (Reply 6):
think the argument should be that Virgin no longer have a presence of any kind in the West Coast in relation to connecting passengers to London Airports.

Do Virgin have a right to have a presence in the West Coast?

Yes, if they bought BMI.

Yes if they won the rail franchise.

Quoting virgincrew (Reply 6):
I agree that he loves the press and does sometimes blow a lot of hot air, but people are against anything VS & SRB do !

When the virgin lovers realise he is blowing hot air, imagine how the rest of us feel. Its the media-whore-esque rubbish like that gets Virgin a bad name.



The world is really getting smaller these days
User currently offlinescouseflyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 3387 posts, RR: 9
Reply 11, posted (2 years 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 25548 times:

Quoting MAN2SIN2BKK (Reply 8):
Is there anything except slot availability that would stop VS offering an "international" service so they cleared immigration etc at MAN and then feeding their flights at Terminal 3 without the need for terminal changes etc etc.

If I remember correctly didn't BA do this with their BA19/20 flight to HKG via Terminal 4

I was wondering about international flights starting at MAN with a stop at LHR - to pick up extra passengers and it could also be used as a domestic flight - An A346 on a UK domestic flight 


User currently offlinerutankrd From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 2981 posts, RR: 7
Reply 12, posted (2 years 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 25517 times:
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Quoting MAN2SIN2BKK (Reply 8):

Is there anything except slot availability that would stop VS offering an "international" service so they cleared immigration etc at MAN and then feeding their flights at Terminal 3 without the need for terminal changes etc etc.

If I remember correctly didn't BA do this with their BA19/20 flight to HKG via Terminal 4

No it was a BA Manchester 732 that flew for Qantas from T2 MAN - to T4 LHR for a season before QF finally gave up to rely on the Shuttle codes shares.

The Hong Kong and Islamabad services with the 744 were tag on flights with no transfers offered airside at LHR.

Also I am not sure that current UK borders and government policies with would make an "international" dedicate feeder operation workable.


User currently offlineMAN2SIN2BKK From Thailand, joined Feb 2009, 233 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (2 years 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 25416 times:

Quoting rutankrd (Reply 12):
No it was a BA Manchester 732 that flew for Qantas from T2 MAN - to T4 LHR for a season before QF finally gave up to rely on the Shuttle codes shares.

I am sure a connection to the late evening intercontinentals from terminal 4 was offered by the BA19/20 service, it was certainly offered in the BA timetable back then


User currently offlineThomasCook From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 795 posts, RR: 8
Reply 14, posted (2 years 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 25408 times:

Quoting steve6666 (Reply 9):
Probably because when he speaks out it is normally to whinge about something detrimental to his own personal self interest, very thinly disguised as protecting consumer rights

Well of course he is raising these issues in the first instance as it is in his best interest, that is business! That is what businesses do! They are there to protect theirs and their shareholders best interests. Don't be under any illusion that any company puts its customers first! However a lot of his 'whinging' to protect and grow his businesses would also benefit the consumer. I for one am certainly am not looking forward to FirstGroup taking over the WCML and am happy for him to 'whinge' about it. His 'whinging' is much more vocal then mine.



A380 Crew
User currently offlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7461 posts, RR: 17
Reply 15, posted (2 years 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 25415 times:

Quoting bongodog1964 (Reply 3):
As to VS "seeking MAN-LHR rights" SRB makes it sound like the old days when you needed Government permission to operate a route, the answer is simple, buy some LHR slots, buy a short haul plane and he's free to lose as much money as he wants to !!

Correct. But Joe Public appears not to know that. And, apparently, neither does the Manchester Evening News.

Quoting virgincrew (Reply 6):
I agree that he loves the press and does sometimes blow alot of hot air, but people are against anything VS & SRB do !

This is Branson's own fault.

When Camelot and not Virgin won the National Lottery franchise he protested how wrong the decision was. He threatened legal action against the British government.

When AA/BA/IB were granted ATI he protested how wrong the decision was. Again he threatened legal action against the competition authorities.

When Lufthansa Group accepted IAG's £172.5 million offer for BD and rejected Virgin's £50 million offer he protested how wrong the decision was. He threatened to seek a judicial review on the EC's decision to authorise the IAG bid claiming that they had reached a wrong decision.

When Virgin Trains lost its West Coast Line railway franchise to First Group he moaned that their bid for the franchise had cost Virgin- i.e. Branson - £14 million. He complained that the First Group bid was impossibly high. He said he would seek a judicial review against the Department of Transport's decision.

There was a time when Branson was perceived as the champion of competition, the champion of the people. But now the British public has grown tired of his moaning, "bad loser" rants. They could only take so much banging on about "competition" from an individual who simply cannot lose a competition, be it to Camelot, IAG or First Group, without threatening legal action against the demorcratically elected British government or the EC.


User currently offlinefcogafa From United Kingdom, joined May 2008, 783 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (2 years 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 25267 times:

Quoting MAN2SIN2BKK (Reply 13):
Also I am not sure that current UK borders and government policies with would make an "international" dedicate feeder operation workable.

As far as I know you can't mix international pax with domestic pax/baggage so it would all need to be checked at the last point of departure.

Which makes me wonder how the Bangladesh Biman DAC-LHR-MAN-DAC flight works in regard to this?


User currently offlineMAN2SIN2BKK From Thailand, joined Feb 2009, 233 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (2 years 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 25199 times:

Quoting fcogafa (Reply 16):
As far as I know you can't mix international pax with domestic pax/baggage so it would all need to be checked at the last point of departure.

The flight went off international at MAN so there were no domestic passengers; those that left the plane at LHR were transferring to BA flights to JFK etc from Terminal 4


User currently offlineEagleBoy From Niue, joined Dec 2009, 1812 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (2 years 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 25180 times:
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Quoting bestwestern (Reply 10):
Quoting virgincrew (Reply 6):
I agree that he loves the press and does sometimes blow a lot of hot air, but people are against anything VS & SRB do !

When the virgin lovers realise he is blowing hot air, imagine how the rest of us feel. Its the media-whore-esque rubbish like that gets Virgin a bad name.

Speaking of media whores........apparently FR are i talks "with a host of airlines" including VS to offer them the current EI DUB-LHR routes to allow the FR hostile takeover of EI. Similar to the MAN-LHR route, I can't see how this is going to help the overall VS operation without just adding complexity.

http://www.independent.ie/business/i...es-over-london-routes-3203861.html

(Apologies for the standard of 'journalism' in this newspaper)


User currently offlinejumpjets From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2012, 805 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (2 years 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 24369 times:

Quoting steve6666 (Reply 9):
You could drive MAN - LHR in little over two hours

You clearly haven't driven down the M6/m40 etc lately - it took me 3.5 hours from South Cheshire abut 30 miles south of Manchester city centre yesterday. So that would be 4-4.5 hrs from city centre to Heathrow. Makes the flying option from MAN much more convenient if you are connecting to a long haul flight.


User currently offlinerutankrd From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 2981 posts, RR: 7
Reply 20, posted (2 years 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 24040 times:
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Quoting MAN2SIN2BKK (Reply 13):
I am sure a connection to the late evening intercontinentals from terminal 4 was offered by the BA19/20 service, it was certainly offered in the BA timetable back then

I really can't recall this ever being the case (Might be wrong) and especially in the case of JFK when the daily direct was available.

Also the MAN-LHR-HKG service was short lived and the Islamabad routed LHR-MAN - Pakistan.

BA relinquished the HKG service when CX went daily if memory serves.

However current security and border policies make "international" feeders effectively unworkable .

Quoting steve6666 (Reply 9):

You could drive MAN - LHR in little over two hours (albeit not particularly legally). And I would struggle to find a sane person not connecting to another flight at LHR who would not take the train.

On what planet do you live average times are in excess of 3 and 1/2 hours by road and by train/walk/tube/Heathrow Express they are much the same Manchester- Heathrow. This route is right at the tipping point where air travel becomes time competitive.

Given the silence from Aberdeen there may yet be something going on with VS and selected domestic routes.


User currently offlineqf002 From Australia, joined Jul 2011, 2963 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (2 years 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 23792 times:

What good news -- I will now be able to connect all the way through to MAN on VS off their new nonstop 787 services to PER/SYD.

 


User currently offlinejumpjets From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2012, 805 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (2 years 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 23223 times:

Anyone reading the Irish Aviation thread will have seen that there was an article on the Guardian[newspaper] website - that has now been removed - which indicated that Virgin are planning to use some of its existing slots plus any they win from the BA/BD slot allocation auction for the MAN route.

My reading of the EU ruling on BAs takeover of BD is that the slots from the auction have to be used for certain specified routes - which don't include MAN - and cannot be transferred to other routes for 3 years. So it would seem that if VS is to introduce a MAN service in the short term, irrespective of whether or not it is awarded any of the ex-BD slots, the required slots will have to come from their existing pool or other slots bought on the open market.

Fortunately EI1989 who made the Original post about the Guardian article has a screen shot of the text which has now been removed from the guardian website can be found at http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/7656/virginatlantictolaunchl.png

[Edited 2012-08-20 08:42:23]

User currently offlinefcogafa From United Kingdom, joined May 2008, 783 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (2 years 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 22973 times:

That article seemed pretty definate about ot, saying the route was starting next April and A319s had been leased.

So why retract it? Do VIR want to make a big announcement themselves or has the Guardian jumped the gun?

A LINK TO THE ARTICLE SAYS:

Removed: Embargoed report

guardian.co.uk, Monday 20 August 2012 13.40 BST
This article has been taken down as it breached an embargo.

[Edited 2012-08-20 09:16:17]

User currently offlinejonnyclark From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2011, 115 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (2 years 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 22575 times:

There is an embargo on the story meaning it isn't allowed to be released into the press until the embargo is lifted. Lots of companies do this to allow all sorts of publications equal opportunities to run the story at the same time.


Jonny, commercial pilot & founder of Thedesignair
25 Post contains images readytotaxi : And I thought we lived in a land with a free press. Oh I love that.
26 skipness1E : This is wrong. Completely wrong. The bottom line is always, to make as much money as possible for Virgin Atlantic and there is nothing wrong with tha
27 drgmobile : There is a bit of a problem with the logic in the Virgin argument. The EC says there is competition on the route because of trains. Virgin says that t
28 LuftyMatt : What outbursts were these? I haven't heard him say anything to be honest. Virgin did a good job with the West Coast Mainline, i's a shame they lost t
29 rutankrd : Only if you apply the BA accounting procedures.
30 willd : Yep indeed. Embargo is going to be lifted tomorrow though apparently .
31 UK_Dispatcher : I also remember a service for QF operated from MAN T3 to LHR T4 by the now defunct Flightline, using a BAe 146 in the early 2000s.
32 bongodog1964 : He immediately called for a judicial review, stated that the winners had got their figures wrong etc etc.
33 adg737800 : Most companies and organisations will issue press releases ahead of any big announcement with an embargo. It allows journalists to ask any questions t
34 fcogafa : I believe that this was popularly thought to be a slot holder
35 mainMAN : Absolutely, although I'm beginning to think even the LHR market is running out of lucrative opportunities. In any case, VS launching domestic is test
36 virgincrew : well based on that article - it's happening ! Manchester Airport have almost confirmed it aswell in the same article and it's been confirmed that A31
37 skipness1E : In what way? I don't see the commercial link. OK so this odd. It's never been harder to make UK domestic profitable due to high fuel prices, APD and
38 1stfl94 : Is it just me or does this not seem like a good idea for VS. LHR-MAN has not exactly worked for BMI given that they dropped for 4 x daily service most
39 LHRFlyer : Bearing in mind Virgin reported a loss of £80m last year I think this highlights that Virgin is being impacted by the AA/BA joint venture and other
40 Post contains images virgincrew : This livery would be fantastic for a Virgin Domestic Carrier...
41 Post contains links LondonCity : The new LHR-MAN service is confirmed in the Daily Mirror. The article says there will be x 3 flts a day. It also says that VS is also looking at servi
42 skipness1E : This feels like a last throw of the dice on strategy. It's high risk and a guaranteed loss maker for a few years. It would take a goliath effort to ge
43 LHRFlyer : Three flights a day to LHR versus up to 11 for BA...
44 virgincrew : For the MAN -LHR route from March, this will be operated using existing VS LHR slots, but for the potential EDI & ABZ - LHR routes, they are look
45 Post contains images LuftyMatt : True enough, can't argue with that Yeh I can see how it might look like that, but maybe he has a point this time? There was something odd about the p
46 Post contains links LondonCity : It's definite. Now confirmed by the BBC: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-19324962
47 Post contains images aamd11 : When the BA/BD merger was first mooted, it was all about the Scottish markets. We must protect the consumer on routes to EDI and ABZ. Why start MAN be
48 skipness1E : They just happen to have the necessary slot pairs for a peak time thrice daily short haul service? Wow that's handy. Is anything being dropped from l
49 skipness1E : I remember now what this made me think of. Surely many of you are familiar with the term "jumping the shark"? This is VS's shark jump IMHO.
50 Daleaholic : I can see the logic in this. From a MAN point of view. We're limited to MCO, LAS and BGI from MAN with VS. Non-Stop anyway. Means that Virgin Atlantic
51 sevenheavy : This is a public forum where everyone can express their personal opinions and preferences. I understand that, but must you use every VS related threa
52 bongodog1964 : The process was quite simple, the operator who promised to pay the most to the govt would get the franchise.
53 fcogafa : Does this infer that the current routes aren't performing as well as they would like and that they need dedicated 'feed' to improve them? Why would o
54 anstar : NBO is a hard market for most airlines currently - alot a cutting back services due to the terror threats etc. BMI were feedign other carriers. VS wi
55 slinky09 : Here we agree - apparently 650,000 people a year connect at Heathrow from domestic to international, BMI used to carry a chunk of those and now BA is
56 smi0006 : Well whether or not you like SRB or VS, I still find this a fascinating development which reminds my why I remain an aviation enthusiast. I can't wait
57 Richcandy : Hi There has been lots of talk about Virgin operating short haul services over the years. In their early days they had a go at operating Maastricht &a
58 christopherwoo : It might be worth considering the longer term implications of this... I think we all know that Virgin will be desperately trying to get into Terminal
59 Pe@rson : Per Radio 2 this morning, VS "will" be starting it next year.
60 anstar : Remember they are not really trying to ge tMAN-LHR traffic. They are trying to get MAN-LHR-LAX/SFO.CPT.JNB/DXB/NRT/PVG etc etc traffic. IMHO probably
61 Post contains images slinky09 : You're onto something there , T2 will be a very good home for VS both long haul, short haul, and mid haul!
62 kl911 : I just got this email from VS: ----------------------------------------------- Virgin Atlantic has just announced plans to fly domestic services from
63 smi0006 : DJ / VA would have to be one of the bigger success of Virgin branded airlines, but there is no connection between the two and the markets are excepti
64 adg737800 : If you read the FAQ about the new service on the website it's a wet lease. QUOTE: "We are working with a wet lessor to ensure the crew will provide th
65 ual777uk : What, you mean the Star Allinace airlines terminal....hmmm, interesting. THis whole development is interesting and if VS can build up some form of do
66 BlueShamu330s : Before we hang out the bunting and all hail the bearded one, pause to wonder whether 49% stakeholder SQ might decide it's more cost effective to pull
67 bestwestern : Good point, but that's too joined up thinking. Aer Lingus to operate i wonder...
68 nighthawk : The slots on the LHR-EDI/ABZ route are to be awarded to a new operator, to encourage someone else to take up the market. If VS were to launch a servi
69 anstar : Which makes perfect business sense. Show that you are serious and put plans in place to start and be able to ramp up to start ABZ/EDI next summer. If
70 kl911 : How about VS and FR dividing EI between them? This will give it a better chance with EU regulations, and VS will have its shorthaul planes and network
71 visualapproach : Just rang them.. was quoted £95.00 return and £205.00 one way for the inaugural flights.
72 Hywel : That's strange, I was also quoted £95 for the return but only £47 for a one-way LHR-MAN. Was your one-way in the opposite direction, MAN-LHR ??
73 visualapproach : He was really hesitant and embarrassed to say it was £205. I was looking at the very first LHR-MAN flight. Perhaps I'll have another go.
74 virgincrew : Thank you... you answered my question - I thought they had leased certain LHR slots out and I'm glad to hear no long haul routes will be lost as a re
75 Post contains links virgincrew : It clearly states on the VS website that this will not happen.... "This route is not part of the bmi remedy slots and we are using our own existing s
76 mainMAN : If you look at the geographical spread of people who connect via LHR, there's the potential of a very approximate 10, 11, 12 million within the immed
77 Post contains links VV701 : Quote: "Branson, whose company has run the route since 1997, branded the decision "insanity", claiming that the government was taking a risk on "almo
78 skipness1E : For the avoidance of doubt I think VS have been invaluable to UK aviation and they have a strong product, brand loyalty. However my criticism is two
79 skipness1E : EDI is exclusively T5 from the winter scheds is it not?
80 fcogafa : If these are slots that are being 'returned' could it be that this route is ostensibly a 'slot holder' due to a lack of available long distance aircra
81 bestwestern : Wondering what other airline routes will be dropped for the three daily Manchesters. I believe that some of the old CO route slots were leased from Vi
82 sevenheavy : Fair points.....everyone has their own reasons and preferences, as we are all entitled to have. I would just offer a couple of points in return; 1. I
83 adg737800 : Timetable from routesonline.com: VS3041 LHR0920 - 1020MAN 319 D VS3043 LHR1610 - 1710MAN 319 D VS3045 LHR2010 - 2110MAN 319 D VS3046 MAN0650 - 0800LHR
84 RyanairGuru : I'd love to see that too, but we all know about Euro-Aus yields. If you're not EK or SQ, don't even bother Possibly, the criptic comment about "depen
85 skipness1E : If I may answer that one, many people on here have a little more experience of Virgin Atlantic and so the general perception being positive is quite
86 jfk777 : Where is Virgin getting three slots from ? Are these BMI slots BA has been forced to hand over ?
87 skipness1E : They are VS' own apparently.
88 avi8 : How many aircraft is VS adding? Are they only doing Manchester flights? Or are they also looking to feed from other UK stations?
89 skipness1E : One leased A319 on Manchester using their own slots and claiming publically to be looking at Aberdeen and Edinburgh if they get some ex BMI slots that
90 slinky09 : Your opinion. My opinion is BA overpaid as a defensive strategy and for VS to offer more money than BA, plus the losses, the restructuring costs, + +
91 Post contains images skipness1E : An excellent point Slinky, I agree. They would quite possibly be betting the farm on success or failure. You old name-dropper you! Not really, howeve
92 LuftyMatt : If they really wanted to do this, what was stopping them using fellow Star Alliance member BD 'shuttling' their passengers down to LHR for them when
93 speedmarque : Wet leased I bet. No VS crew training costs or long term investment for when it fails.............
94 SInGAPORE_AIR : Anyone flying the inaugural LHR-MAN ?
95 mogandoCI : Instead of random domestic routes, the smartest thing VS could (and should've) done is to immediately join any alliance (logically Star) and do broad-
96 david_itl : Already seen some people predict this is the beginning of the end for the MAN-MCO, MAN-BGI and MAN-LAS services. Quite how a 150 seater will manage to
97 anstar : If you'd bothered to read their press release or the route application VS are planning on operating a 2 x daily A330 service to Moscow from LHR. Unde
98 Post contains links LondonCity : But VS might lose out to Easyjet for the Moscow route application. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/n...ght-to-operate-Moscow-flights.html
99 RyanairGuru : I was under the impression that these route authorities had to be used for LHR? Or is it London generally. If they are LHR-centric I'm not sure why E
100 anstar : I did say "planning" lol Though I would expect it to go to VS as they will offer more Y capacity than what easyjet is offering plus add to that VS al
101 skipness1E : Not at all, Virgin in my view operates two similar business models, but they are different enough to be require two fleets. Now if they start MAN-LGW
102 mogandoCI : Zero, but the point of Star isn't to care about those 5 pax from Edinburgh or 10 pax from Manchester, but the ones who might want to do IST-LHR-LAS o
103 Post contains images Viscount724 : Also Athens for a while using an A320 and later an A321.
104 Post contains images OA260 : Yep flew on it myself. Still have the ticket and BP Was a very good service. All interiors were VS and the crew were in VS uniforms based in ATH IIRC
105 skipness1E : In later years, that's because they operated the route themselves. It came in house when South East European Airways, the original franchise holder w
106 OA260 : Where were the crew based when it was ''in house'' ?
107 skipness1E : Not sure, I recall the Greek flight crew were replaced by UK crew but not sure where cabin crew were based.
108 Post contains images OA260 : I must have been on the SEEA one then as it was Greek crew in VS uniforms and VS interiors. Have the photos somewhere. G-OUZO was such a cool reg als
109 sevenheavy : There were ATH based crew who initially operated solely on the ATH route. They were gradually merged with the rest of the crew and operated on all ro
110 Post contains links jumpjets : Airtransport World is quoting that two of the slots would be those currently leased to Cyprus Airways. http://atwonline.com/airline-finance...antic-e
111 VV701 : There is a distinction between "route authority" which is covered by the Anglo-Russian bilateral services agreement and the "slot release" required b
112 bestwestern : As was mentioned earlier, Bmi baby was launched as a knee jerk reaction to go's arrval at east midlands. From the very beginning that started badly.
113 bestwestern : The case gets deeper. Over on PPrune, a respected poster has stated that for VS to apply for the bmi remedy slots all the airlines current slots have
114 anstar : That is typical VS route announcements though - especially if you look at recent examples like Mumbai which took a month or so to be bookable online
115 AIR MALTA : What VS can do is a transfer type à la Aer Linugs. I have just recently connected from T1 to T arriving from Shannon on EI and departing to Brussels
116 fcogafa : Also, according to the BAW slot sales tender the closing date for applications for flights to start by summer 2013 is tomorrow. All too much of a coi
117 AIR MALTA : Don't think so. Ultimately, I see VS operating flights to MAN, EDI and ABZ keeping the slots warm for 3 years. After that, if domestic works fine wit
118 bestwestern : No. Poor old Cyprus Airways loses access to Heathrow also.
119 anstar : Perhaps they will be the wet lease company as they will now have the spare planes and crews???
120 musapapaya : Lets not forget passengers at MAN can always fly international by connecting via a eurropean hub, CDG, FRA, MUC, ZRH, just to name a few, is the value
121 eurowings : Of course they can, but don't forget VS has a strong focus on transatlantic traffic, where there's no Gulf competition and transiting via the contine
122 mainMAN : No not really, but by the very fact that LHR is in the same country, it's bound to get a significant amount of the transfer traffic.
123 Humberside : They should be able to pick up late evening slots if they want them. That how Helios got access into LHR, and more recently how Egyptair built up LHR
124 koruman : There is something fishy about how BA is operating MAN- LHR flights currently. I returned to the UK with my family for the Olympics. We flew LHR-MAN o
125 skipness1E : No they're just having to cancel, juggle and consolidate flights as BMI aircraft are painted and revamped. The reason they may not have been selling
126 RyanairGuru : Interestingly my mother and her partner had the exact opposite experience when flying BD from LHR-MAN in June. The flight (an Embraer) was overbooked
127 Post contains images skipness1E : ???? Do tell
128 RyanairGuru : The UA/CO integration bungle. I was using it to illustrate that these things aren't always smooth sailing, at least initially
129 skipness1E : Ah thanks, I just didn't get the reference. Good point.
130 mainMAN : Good question, and as skipness has said, they're in a period of adjustment at the moment, trying to match demand with their newfound capacity. Your p
131 mainMAN : I didn't know that. I remember in about 1983 BA dropped MAN and I think PIK to JFK. There was a very short period in the early 80s when MAN had no li
132 Post contains links VV701 : Transfer traffic can be one of two ways totally key to getting passengers on seats and not diluting yields too much on the main (long haul) service.
133 bestwestern : 13 a day is too many, but BA have not yet decided what to do with long haul slots. First they need the aircraft. So routes like DUB, BHD and MAN will
134 rutankrd : 13 slots is a temporary measure as four will transfer to the LBA service on the 9th December. Thereafter the core service on BA Shuttle from Mancheste
135 Post contains links VV701 : Is there a source for this statement? It seems a little unlikely to me. After all, as discussed here: BA To Increase LHR-DUB To 8 X Daily (by GSTBA A
136 bestwestern : I hope I'm wrong, but BA bought Bmi for the slots. They today don't have the aircraft to launch more long haul routes, so in the interim have chosen
137 rutankrd : VV701 has a good grasp of the slot allocations and many/much of the bmi package are not suitable for long haul. Further when does BA expect to have t
138 sam1987 : Just looked at the timetable on ba.com. MAN remains as a high frequency throughout December, plus MAN will be at T5 and LBA will be at T1 so I doubt
139 rutankrd : Sam but they are and you need to look at the notations especially carefully in the winter quarter because BA are very adept at managing the 80% rule
140 sam1987 : Are you suggesting BA are going to cancel some of the December MAN rotations that are currently selling? If anything is cancelled to free up time for
141 anstar : Possibly... AIrlins like VS/BA tend to cancel a few frequencies over the winter period on an adhoc basis. Ie rather than cancel one JFK rotation for
142 rutankrd : The LHR terminal is something of a red herring. Expect all the BA137* flights to disappear in the coming weeks as the final winter timetable is set.
143 rutankrd : Pretty much exactly what happens and specifically with the JFK service. New York (JFK) - winter 1012/13 Flights will operate using on the following a
144 Lehovec : Flights are now available to book via Opodo for £98 return. Still no information who will the a/c be operated by. Is this a/c going to be based at LH
145 GCT64 : From much further up the thread, we can see that the aircraft is night stopping at MAN:
146 Lehovec : Maybe I wasn't clear enough. What I meant was if the crew will be LHR or MAN based, but I suppose we will have to wait and see who will this flights
147 ba319-131 : Does anyone have any idea where the aircraft is coming from yet? Over on the Business Traveller on-line forum there are suggestions the aircraft will
148 Post contains images bestwestern : Some idiot mentioned it on this thread too. EI makes more sense than others as they have the presence and set up in T1 to operate it alongside Manche
149 anstar : How does EI feel about BA continuing on LHR-DUB? Will their partnership remain? Might make sense for EI and VS to get closer??
150 Hywel : I've heard differently. They're apparently using an A319 from BH Air Bulgaria ("Balkan Holidays" callsign) according to a dispatcher at MAN. (They've
151 visualapproach : Did the caterers get asked too?
152 ba319-131 : - September 1st and still not bookable on the VS website......
153 anstar : you can book through opodo etc already
154 Post contains links david_itl : Looking for another story I've found this: http://www.uk-airport-news.info/manchester-airport-news-311206.htm 'In an interview in the Friends of the E
155 lisbonbearuk : Will they be using T2 or T3 at MAN, and which LHR terminal will these flights use?
156 eurowings : VS stated Terminal 3 at MAN and Terminal 1 at LHR in their press release. The reason for this is most likely to be the fact that T2 at MAN and T3 at
157 Hywel : Opodo is selling the inaugural MAN-LHR for only £41 - a bargain!
158 vv701 : Then Virgin Trains had the monopoly franchise for the profitable West Coast route. Branson needed as many rail passengers to make as big a profit as
159 Post contains links LondonCity : Yes. And at the time, VS even had the wording "4 engines 4 long haul" written across the covers of the A346's Trent engines. http://www.flightglobal.
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