LHCVG From United States of America, joined May 2009, 1798 posts, RR: 2 Posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 12573 times:
I was reading an article on major U.S. brands this morning on NBCNews.com, and it had an interesting line: "American Airlines was the premier U.S. airline for over thirty years". It then goes on to cite the successive DL/NW and UA/CO mergers and how that quickly dropped AA from world's largest status to third in the U.S. They didn't provide any more detail on dates, but it sounds to me like they are basically arguing that AA was the "premier U.S. airline" since deregulation until the DL and UA megacarriers came about.
At the risk of starting a flamefest, I thought this was an interesting assertion. Anyone have any thoughts on that?
jfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 9706 posts, RR: 6
Reply 1, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 12560 times:
From 1990 to 2005 AA was the premier US airline, I base this on its expansion to Latin America and LHR at time. After 9/11 AA went into a pause that caused it to declare Bankruptcy. AA stopped buying 737-800 and got stuck with all the MD-80's.
IrishAyes From Israel, joined Jan 2008, 2536 posts, RR: 16
Reply 5, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 12405 times:
Quoting LHCVG (Thread starter): They didn't provide any more detail on dates, but it sounds to me like they are basically arguing that AA was the "premier U.S. airline" since deregulation until the DL and UA megacarriers came about.
AA is not the only example of a once-former shining star of the industry that has fallen off the bandwagon. Plenty of global legacy carriers have gone down the same tube as industry forces have completely re-shaped the competitive landscape.
I also agree with some of the other opinions here in that "premier" is too loosely defined/subjective to draw any sort of conclusive statements.
MEA-707 From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4573 posts, RR: 31
Reply 7, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 12325 times:
In the 1990s United, Delta and American were about as big... Delta had slightly more passengers but on shorter sectors then the others but United and American were very close in RPMs and fleetsize, one year one was bigger, the next the other. Perhaps because American has the most patriotic name and scheme it was being seen as the premier USA airline, with United close behind and Delta having a much lower profile. I know I open up a can of worms here but the 911 hyjackers chose American and United not for nothing as they had a more US proud appeal then any other airline, just like Pan Am unfortunately was relatively much a victim of terrorism in its days.
nobody has ever died from hard work, but why take the risk?
Also not to open a can of worms but IIRC, some DL planes were also to be hijacked on 9/11 as well but got grounded before anything happened.
AA was very premium up until around 2000. Fares were pretty high but the service in Y was very good. The meals on short to medium sectors were always very good.
UA was premium in a different way. They invested more $ into their fleet and in the 1990s they were taking deliveries of 777, 767, 757, and A32S. AA had an older fleet than UA in the 90s, but the service was always remarked to be better.
DL I don't think was every regarded as very premium. They did have some staple route out of JFK in the late 1990s, but they also had their fair share of low fare pax (Delta Express.)
CO wasn't even on the radar compared to AA and UA back in the 1990s. Many still had a bad taste in their mouths because of Lorenzo.
For the record, I always though US was more classy in the 1990s but never on the same scale as DL, AA, UA etc.
Now the roles are all different. DL and UA are now the leading global carriers in America. AA has taken a back seat due to BK.
LHCVG From United States of America, joined May 2009, 1798 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 11957 times:
Quoting tommy767 (Reply 8): Now the roles are all different. DL and UA are now the leading global carriers in America. AA has taken a back seat due to BK.
To be fair, I don't think bk ALONE relegates a carrier to "the back seat". Don't get me wrong - I've been known to bash AA for various sins, particularly their poor relations with pilots and unwillingness to enter bk out of pride instead of pragmatism, but on this one I don't ding them. In other words, I take issue with what I perceive to be certain failings of their product and strategy, but for me at least, bk is an economic situation at the corporate level rather than a product issue involving line personnel and the customer-facing experience per se, provided that poor employee morale during bk proceedings doesn't sink any perceived "premier" service they offer.
ckfred From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 5841 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 11900 times:
AA was among the innovative airlines. It created the frequent flyer program. UA used to hand out plaques and baggage ID tags, when a passegner accumulated 100,000 miles (My father was a member of the 100,000 Miler Club). Bob Crandall thought a plaque and tags was a poor way to reward loyalty and thought free trips was a better reward.
Hence, the AAdvantage program.
While UA was trying Economy Plus (reserving seats with more legroom in the front of the cabin for elites and full-fare passengers) AA introduced More Room Throughout Coach, giving everyone in coach more legroom. The program didn't work (AA wasn't able to charge more for the reduced number of seats), but it was innovative.
Generally, AA has had the best choice of wines of any of the domestic carriers. For years, AA's wines were selected by a professor of agriculture at Purdue University who had a background in the growing of grapes.
And besides Latin America, AA used to be the dominant carrier in the Caribbean, pretty much serving any island through SJU, MIA, JFK, or BOS.
flyguy89 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 2338 posts, RR: 20
Reply 15, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 11276 times:
Quoting LHCVG (Thread starter): At the risk of starting a flamefest, I thought this was an interesting assertion. Anyone have any thoughts on that?
Well on a.net, we could argue semantics about such an assertion, but from the perspective of the average joe who doesn't pay much attention to the airline industry I think it's probably a fair enough assessment. In the late 80's and all of the 90's AA was going gang-busters. Their in-flight service truly was top-notch in all classes, they had gained that coveted access to LHR, were expanding in Europe and Latin America, and as stated were jockeying with UA as the world's largest airline. So to the average person it probably makes sense to call them the premier US airline.
Of course since 9/11 they've stagnated unfortunately and they now have a lot of hurdles to overcome to get back on top. I will say this though, AA's domestic first class is still very top-notch when compared to their peers. I can't speak for the international premium cabins, but as far as domestic flights, AA is still very solid and invests heavily in the in-flight service, food, etc. UA is probably a close second, but on DL you'll often only receive a cold sandwich or other underwhelming option, on US first class passengers don't even get anything unless the flight is longer than 3 hours (unless they've changed this recently), but on AA pretty much any flight over two hours will get you a hot meal, even on the S80's
AADC10 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 2158 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 11024 times:
Difficult to define "premier" but not long ago AA led in business contracts and Consumers Reports once rated it highest among the legacies with the best legacy frequent flyer redemption rates. It is also by far the largest USA carrier on the premier international business route, JFK-LHR. An argument could be made for any of the legacies but I would figure that the label was assigned by virtue of AA being a favorite of corporate travel departments.
AA94 From United States of America, joined Aug 2011, 657 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 9998 times:
Quoting ckfred (Reply 11): AA was among the innovative airlines. It created the frequent flyer program. UA used to hand out plaques and baggage ID tags, when a passegner accumulated 100,000 miles (My father was a member of the 100,000 Miler Club). Bob Crandall thought a plaque and tags was a poor way to reward loyalty and thought free trips was a better reward.
AA was an innovator in many fields back in the day. They were the first airline to introduce transcon jet service (using the 707), first to use computerized reservations (with SABRE), as well as the introduction of AAdvantage. I believe they were also the first (or one of the first) to hire females as captains/FOs.
I do know that DL1989 was a suspected hijack due to the routing and equipment. It was operating BOS-LAX with a 763, which generally fit the profile of large aircraft operating transcon flights being hijacked. Further, Boston center attempted to make contact with the flight and received no response (because the aircraft was actually in Cleveland airspace and communicating with Cleveland center at the time). Between the profile and the miscommunication, that is why the flight was a suspected hijack, but there was never actually a threat to DL1989.
If you can't take the heat, you best get out of the kitchen
ZaphodB From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 77 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 9898 times:
Years before MRTC AA had the best Y seat pitch of any scheduled airline operating UKUS routes. Although I preferred DLs 1011s there was no mistaking that AAs 762s and M11s were more comfortable (the M11 had 35" seat pitch ... that is not a typo!) and the Y service and food on AA were at least as good as the competition. The exception was the A306s which were very cramped in coach ... but maybe not by modern standards. The seat count on AA's 3-class TATL 762s must have been very low. They were great. I remember being completely stumped the first time I boarded a DL 763 at LGW - the interiors looked tatty and clapped out right from day one and were nowhere near as comfortable as AA's 76s had been.
I guess that's a long way of saying that IMHO, yes, AA was once the premier carrier on UKUS routes at least, regardless of nationality if you flew in coach. UA was nowhere near as good and nor were BA. VS were awful.
ordjoe From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 814 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 9844 times:
Quoting AA94 (Reply 22): AA was an innovator in many fields back in the day.
I believe they invented the airline lounge, granted up until the 80's one had to get invited in, how that could be done if you are not a celebrity I am not sure.
They were much better than today, were they as good as a foreign carrier, probably not. Among the US carriers I would say they were premium.
I have read on flyertalk that they served caviar in international and transcon F. When I flew Y to LHR a few months before 9-11 alcohol (even champaign) was free, there were snack baskets with good stuff in the galleys like Toblerone bars and other nice candies. They were definitely a good airline. Also in the 90's they were probably the most respected. UA had a lot of labor issues (sickouts and a other intentional delays) AA kept their nose fairly clean in the 90s.
: This was common in Transcon F cabins up until mid to late 90's. Cant remember exactly when it ended, but certainly remember setting up the caviar car
26 Max Q
: No, if you really want to name the Premier Carrier of that era it has to be Continental. Under the strict management of Bob Six, the Airlines founder
: I think it would be fair to say that under the tutelage of C.R.Smith AA consistantly led the way for many years as far as the "Big Four" were concern
: I am loyal to AA due to FF status, but they let the aircraft product slip, the MD-88s so when I get on a new 737 in First, I'm pretty happy with the n
: I agree, but to be fair, neither does UA on EWR or ORD to Hawaii, I believe DL still offers complimentary meals in Y though on ATL-HNL.
: I might be alone on this, but I kind of like those old brown seats. The tourists that go to HNL voted with their wallets they would rather save a few
: When I moved to NY in 1996 my VP advised me that travel "would likely end up with American Airlines". AA and UA were the premier carriers for business
: I'm a fan of them, myself. They're pretty comfortable too, in my opinion.
: Don't forget the Convair 990 Well said. American was easily the best managed of the "Big Four" as AA, UA, EA and TWA were known then. It was the larg
: Here is a little credit to where credit is due: I thoroughly enjoyed flying American Airlines Flagship DC-10 Transcontinental Flagship Service in Busi
: Very interesting discussion so far Sorry to go of topic, but your discussion made me wonder: Which is the premier airline in the US, in terms of servi
: Ah, yes. However the 240/340/440 types might not have happened without AA's large (launch) order for 240's and that really put Convair on the map at
: I do believe AA used to be the premier carrier. I remember SABRE being lauded as one of the best GDSs, its agents being among the most professional, c
: I have to say from my own experiences that I have never found AA to be premier in any make, shape or form. I think AA account for 100% of my worst eve
: People have very short memories. Until 1990, when things changed considerably, DL had won practically every airline customer service award for someth
: Well you are right about DL always having amazing customer service. However their international presence skyrocketed with the PA shutdown. They basic
: I'm going to agree with the general consensus here and say that AA was indeed a premier carrier up until 2001--I'd argue that the brief span of time b
: I think AA was the first carrier to use electronic scanners to read boarding passes (initially magnetic stripes on the back of boarding passes). This
: Really?? I thought AA started the hub and spoke strategy. I totally agree. Didn't a lot of people complain about airline food? Wasn't it the topic of
: They did. DFW and ORD were the first with BNA and RDU following. DL wasn't nearly as strong in ATL in the 80s because EA was a threat for most of the
: In the 1960s AA didn't have any hub that could compare with Delta at ATL. (Probably nobody else did either?)
: Premier product today? I would have to say none of them.
: A good way to look at who was hubbing and when is go to departedflights.com and look at the old route maps. The hubs will be obvious. Delta was known
: When I was younger I was AA plat. . . and used the status to get CO gold (I think it was little known, but at the time it just took a phone call and a
: AA was a premier carrier, but times have changed. I remember the days of wonderful meals in F on DL, Riding NW from LGW and having a monster spread wi
: Exactly right!! The FF program, in my opinion, sorta downgraded the "premiere" experience on any airline. What used to be a true f/c ambiance, wtih p
: Wrong! Like I said, DL was the first-by a LONG shot: "Way back in 1955, Delta devised the world’s first hub & spoke airline model." Unlike some
: I believe you are right. I remember the hub and spoke with the hub being Dallas. AAalso was the creator of,yield managment
: No, Delta originated the hub and spoke model in 1955 at ATL. It's on the Delta history website and a Google search links to many other sources. Link b
: Ch 9 Also Jet Blue with Direct TV and I don't know who was the first with XM radio, maybe Express Jet.
: AA was also the first to operate coast-to-coast nonstops in both directions with the DC-7 in 1953. TWA's early model L-1049 Super Constellations coul
: I'd love to have Crandall back in the saddle at this point. Some of my mom's (an ex-AA employee) closest friends still work at AA, and do their jobs
: Maybe so, but TWA's timetables did claim westward nonstops starting in 1954 (or sometime after AA started theirs, anyway). Think at the beginning the
: I thought TWA had to wait for the L-1049G in early 1955 before beginning westbound nonstops. I can't find any 1954 timetables but their September 195
: In 4/54, no TWA westward nonstops IDL-LAX; in 8/54, one; in 1/55, two. Both were scheduled in the same 7-55 that AA used when it started westward nons
: The eight hour rule was changed for flights with three cockpit crew members. In the DC-7/Connie days this would have been the flight engineer. I used
: The problem was that the powerplants on these aircraft were so so unreliable----especially in the first couple of years-------that it was a rare flig