kaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12291 posts, RR: 35
Reply 5, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 20937 times:
This is a huge embarassment for QF and reading through some posts on another website, it seems that the captain was a "difficult" individual (that is, shall we say, a euphemism). The SO has a job to do and it's his role to speak up and say something if he feels it's not being done right; that would be drilled into him during his CRM training and not to speak up when he should would be a dereliction of duty.
The airline will be looking at this very carefully and given that the captain in question had allegedly been invited to meet his Chief Pilot and Flight Ops management on a few occasions, he would be likely to have some explaining to do.
RyanairGuru From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 4471 posts, RR: 3
Reply 12, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 17466 times:
Quoting txjim (Reply 8): Would they not approach their Oneworld partner to assist or is that not the norm?
No, only their handling agent. Given that this was after midnight and most (all?) international departures would have left I imagine that the handling agent would only have a skeleton staff left at the airport.
At DFW I'd guess that QF have only a handful of in-house employees other than a Station Manager. While it's regrettable that there weren't more people, that isn't strictly QF's fault. After all no self-respecting outsource provider would employ a person more than they have to!
Even if they had asked (i.e. paid a fortune for) AA to step in and help, the AA staff in DFW probably have never been trained on QF's computer system since they aren't the handling provider. Maybe at LAX they could have called for reinforcements given that AA do QF's handling in T4 so there are AAgents who know QF.
Spacecadet From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3405 posts, RR: 13
Reply 13, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 17413 times:
Quoting dirtyfrankd (Reply 9): This has to be one of the most poorly written articles I have ever read...
I agree, although it's easy to see why. There's no "there" there. The headline is about a cockpit "clash", but there's really very little actual info about that in the article itself, and it probably was a relatively minor part of all this, so the writer/editor has to pump the article up with fluff.
This is basically a long article about a flight that was delayed, and therefore the pilots exceeded their hours.
Whether anything happened in the cockpit at all is barely even suggested, except that there's apparently an investigation. But why? What was this "clash" about, what caused it, who noticed it and what did they hear? There are no details, which leads me to think it probably either didn't happen, or it was a fairly routine and relatively minor disagreement about something or other that maybe took a few extra minutes to figure out.
Most of the problems on this flight were obviously related to delays caused by the weather.
I'm tired of being a wanna-be league bowler. I wanna be a league bowler!
ricknroll From Afghanistan, joined Jan 2012, 681 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 15905 times:
Quoting AirCalSNA (Reply 6): That story sounds completely overblown. Aussie news must be hard up for news.
It was serious enough for them to both be stood down. Because they could not agree on something as basic as data to be entered into the computer, the flight had to be cancelled. This has cost the airline money and caused a major inconvenience to passengers, at a time when QANTAS is fighitng for it's life. The share price has crashed, customers are deserting it and competitors are expanding into it's market share.
ricknroll From Afghanistan, joined Jan 2012, 681 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 12530 times:
Quoting lasairlinerenth (Reply 15): Well, I sure hope Qantas isn't falling apart at the seams. I will be flying them (and Jetstar) for the very first time from LAX to Perth and back this November/December. Looking forward to it.
Not falling apart at the seams at all, it is a professionaly run airline, everything is maintained well, even if parts a getting a little shabby now. The Jetstar Airbii are in good condition. Just not seeing a bright future at the moment, so every fault is a big story.
In this case, though, if the pilots can't even get off the ground as a team, you really can't have them up there flying in that state.
koruman From Australia, joined Feb 2006, 3473 posts, RR: 5
Reply 19, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 11576 times:
Am I missing something?
I'm usually the first to find fault with Qantas, but it sounds here as if a cautious captain did not want to take risks with patient safety in adverse weather, which resulted in a delay because of duty times.
That's good, isn't it?
I don't want to fly in dangerous conditions, or on an airline which breaches duty limits.
Rara From Germany, joined Jan 2007, 1988 posts, RR: 3
Reply 21, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks ago) and read 8785 times:
I'm surprised this doesn't happen more often actually. There has always been a good number of senior captains who've developed pretty lax standards, have little to lose career-wise, and aren't going to follow company procedures to the letter. Historically the captain was God, and what he said was done. Nowadays co-pilots are instructed to stand their own ground, to give their opinion about safety-relevant issues, and to intervene if they believe the aircraft isn't operated safely. I can see how that leads to conflicts in the cockpit.
That said, what a terrible article. I can write an article like that about any single flight.
"The landing did seem a bit hard to me", said Flora W., 42, who was travelling with her two children. "Also my son didn't get his meal choice. It's just been a huge mess". The news struck the airline only years after yet another hard landing in which even overhead bins had opened, according to eye witnesses. "This airline is totally mismanaged", said a business insider who declined to be named. Etc. etc.
Samson was a biblical tough guy, but his dad Samsonite was even more of a hard case.