jetjack74 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 7336 posts, RR: 52 Reply 1, posted (9 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 5382 times:
Makes sense. China's economy is slowing and is projected to keep sliding abit throughout the end of the year. I think we might end up suspending the service indefinitely
MaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 15748 posts, RR: 48 Reply 2, posted (9 months 1 week ago) and read 5256 times:
Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter): Delta states it has faced challenging economic conditions and its China business strategy does not support commencing NRT-CAN service in 2012.
I forgot this was still on the docket; I thought they gave up on it. This definitely has nothing to do with 'economic conditions' so why not give the allotment up and ask for them back when they need them? There are plenty to go around and that number will grow.
Tdan From United States of America, joined Nov 2011, 306 posts, RR: 3 Reply 3, posted (9 months 1 week ago) and read 5184 times:
Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 2): Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
Delta states it has faced challenging economic conditions and its China business strategy does not support commencing NRT-CAN service in 2012.
I forgot this was still on the docket; I thought they gave up on it. This definitely has nothing to do with 'economic conditions' so why not give the allotment up and ask for them back when they need them? There are plenty to go around and that number will grow.
Why are they still keeping traffic rights to fly a route that should have never been flown in the first place? Zero local traffic rights to a destination that isn't exactly known for its premium traffic to/from the US. Plus, there's literally thousands of daily, one-stop connecting seats between the US and CAN, not even including the CZ nonstop and the fact that many traveling to the PRD use HKG as their O&D.
We will ride this thunderbird, silver shadows on the earth, a thousand leagues away our land of birth... -Captain Bruce
steex From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 1435 posts, RR: 9 Reply 4, posted (9 months 1 week ago) and read 5117 times:
Quoting Tdan (Reply 3): Zero local traffic rights to a destination that isn't exactly known for its premium traffic to/from the US.
DL would have full fifth-freedom rights, allowing them to carry local CAN-NRT traffic (as with all the other routes they fly beyond NRT). The only route they've operated without such rights was the brief NRT-SGN, but that specific route was excluded (they could've operated to SGN via a different Japanese gateway with full fifth-freedom rights).
PHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 4991 posts, RR: 14 Reply 5, posted (9 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 4815 times:
Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter): Delta states it has faced challenging economic conditions and its China business strategy does not support commencing NRT-CAN service in 2012.
So who does DL go to in this case? The US DOT? the Japan trans. board? The NRT board? China's transportation board? It sounds like a LOT of bureaucracy is involved here.
Only people this is between is Delta and the DOT.
Japan has nothing to say in it, as USA-NRT-CAN flights would be with in Delta's 5th freedom rights.
China has already given the United States its frequencies and the US is then allowed to pass them out as they see fit(which at this point is just ask as the US has like 30+ open frequencies.....but it has been via route bids also in the past)
So not really. At this point its just some paper work. Now if someone wanted them rights then it could be more work, but as it is, the DOT will likely grant the delay and we'll get to have this thread same time/place next year.
TWA85 From United States of America, joined Feb 2012, 126 posts, RR: 0 Reply 9, posted (9 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 1849 times:
Why did DL recently ask for more China frequencies if they are asking to delay others. Why not allocate the CAN frequencies to a route that they intend on operating with the additional request frequencies and ask for more when they actually intend on operating CAN. The DOT should deny DL's request for more frequencies until ALL of DL's current frequencies are fully utilized.
AADC10 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 1839 posts, RR: 0 Reply 10, posted (9 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 1702 times:
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 8):
Quoting ADent (Reply 6):
How is the UA SFO-CAN authority doing?
Expired couple years back.
Did it actually expire? Not that it matters anymore but in 2010, UA announced that they were seeking to postpone the start to summer 2011, which obviously did not happen. I have not read anything since. Were they not granted the extension in 2010? Did it lapse last year? Of course UA would not announce that the route authority expired but I have not seen anything from DOT announcing that the authority was not available either but they may not have bothered either since since several have gone unclaimed.
LAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 22077 posts, RR: 51 Reply 11, posted (9 months 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 1562 times:
Quoting TWA85 (Reply 9): Why did DL recently ask for more China frequencies if they are asking to delay others. Why not allocate the CAN frequencies to a route that they intend on operating with the additional request frequencies and ask for more when they actually intend on operating CAN. The DOT should deny DL's request for more frequencies until ALL of DL's current frequencies are fully utilized
Not all China frequencies are created equal.
With the recently liberalized air service agreement the country is divided into 2 zones.
Zone 1 consists of Beijing, Shanghai, and Guangzhou.
China Zone 2 consists of Anhui, Fujian, Guangdong (except Guangzhou), Hebei, Henan, Hubei, Hunan, Jiangsu, Jiangxi, Shandong, Shanxi, Tianjin, and Zhejiang.
Then within the zones, there are certain restrictions – most specifically withing Zone 1 – PEK and PVG services are limited, while CAN is now essentially now unlimited as is all of zone-2.
So in theory a CAN slot cannot be reallocated to a more restrictive PEK service for example.
However this is a bit mute at the moment as there are 37 frequencies free for the asking in PEK/PVG anyhow
Quoting AADC10 (Reply 10): Did it actually expire? Not that it matters anymore but in 2010, UA announced that they were seeking to postpone the start to summer 2011, which obviously did not happen. I have not read anything since. Were they not granted the extension in 2010? Did it lapse last year? Of course UA would not announce that the route authority expired but I have not seen anything from DOT announcing that the authority was not available either but they may not have bothered either since since several have gone unclaimed.
They let it go dormant after continual delays since 2007.
At their last start up waiver request United even made mention it would not oppose the department reallocating the rights to another carrier that seeks CAN service.
[Edited 2012-08-22 19:44:05]
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FSDan From United States of America, joined Jan 2011, 626 posts, RR: 2 Reply 12, posted (9 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 1435 times:
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 8): Pretty interesting how Guangzhou has been such a challenge for both NW and now DL. Endless on/off attempts.
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 11):
They let it go dormant after continual delays since 2007.
At their last start up waiver request United even made mention it would not oppose the department reallocating the rights to another carrier that seeks CAN service.
Seems like CAN is a challenge for all US-based airlines. Both DL and UA have failed so far. And neither US nor AA is ever likely to try their hand there...
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From United States of America, joined May 2000, 22077 posts, 
Why are they still keeping traffic rights to fly a route that should have never been flown in the first place? Zero local traffic rights to a destination that isn't exactly known for its premium traffic to/from the US. Plus, there's literally thousands of daily, one-stop connecting seats between the US and CAN, not even including the CZ nonstop and the fact that many traveling to the PRD use HKG as their O&D.
From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 4991 posts, 
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