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Combining JFK, EWR, And LGA Into One Airport.  
User currently offlineYankeesFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 216 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 13555 times:

Just thought of a extreme idea. Combining JFK, EWR, and LGA into one mega airport. Would it work? Also, I want to know why it would work or not.


I hope you stand by your promises Obama. I will be really mad if you don't
101 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7600 posts, RR: 24
Reply 1, posted (2 years 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 13511 times:

Sounds like hell on earth.

It wont work because there is no spot relatively close where there is that much free land. To have an airport that can handle that much traffic, you would require a lot more space than any of the three airports has. It would also require about a dozen terminals and by that point it defeats the purpose.

The big selling point about LaGuardia is that its convenient to the city. An airport of that size would probably have to be located in a far flung exurb. At that point, it isnt convenient.



Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently offlinebmacleod From Canada, joined Aug 2001, 2275 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (2 years 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 13504 times:

The first impression I get is it screams of red lights from FAA New York ATC and of course the airlines.....can't see how anyone would have a favorable impression of this...

[Edited 2012-08-22 07:36:43]


The engine is the heart of an airplane, but the pilot is its soul.
User currently offlineazstar From United States of America, joined May 2005, 620 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (2 years 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 13500 times:

Where would you put a new airport? LGA is out of the question, and both EWR & JFK are already at capacity with no room for expansion.

User currently offlineYankeesFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 216 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (2 years 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 13455 times:

Thanks... It was just a thought for like 20+ years in the future when air traffic will grow.....


I hope you stand by your promises Obama. I will be really mad if you don't
User currently offlineB727FA From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 763 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (2 years 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 13437 times:

Easy fix: tear down Queens and build it there. The AirTrain can then connect the two "campuses" of LGA and JFK and you're done...

JOKE!



My comments/opinions are my own and are not to be construed as the opinion(s) of my employer.
User currently offlinemogandoCI From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (2 years 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 13398 times:

Airport access is the biggest concern - the airport needs to be connected to major highways and that pax from north/east/west could access it without the bottlenecks of tunnels/bridges.

Although not the most ideal, but if we have to choose a single existing airport and expand it to fill the roles of all 3, it would be JFK.


User currently offlineYankeesFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 216 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (2 years 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 13396 times:

Quoting B727FA (Reply 5):
Easy fix: tear down Queens and build it there. The AirTrain can then connect the two "campuses" of LGA and JFK and you're done...

JOKE!

Or put it on a man made island south of Brooklyn.  



I hope you stand by your promises Obama. I will be really mad if you don't
User currently offlineRL757PVD From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4674 posts, RR: 11
Reply 8, posted (2 years 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 13384 times:

Here's a quick summary fo what you are probably looking at...

6 Runways
300 ish gates
2 control towers
Massive air cargo facilities
High speed rail connection
Significant environmental and social backlash (assuming this airport would go in the lower hudson area between SWF and Manhattan
Up to 100,000 auto parking spaces

My "ballpark" cost estimate - $80-100 Billion, possibly more.



Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
User currently offlineYankeesFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 216 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (2 years 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 13332 times:

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 8):

Yep. Sounds far fetched doesn't it?



I hope you stand by your promises Obama. I will be really mad if you don't
User currently offlinejumpjets From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2012, 818 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (2 years 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 13258 times:

If you think this is far fetched take a look at the 'Could An "Artificial Island Airport" Replace LHR?' thread where the idea of creating an island in the Thames estuary is being floated [pardon the pun] as a replacement for LHR and LGW - so watch out coastal New York, it could be your turn for a new island ....

User currently offlineN62NA From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 4469 posts, RR: 7
Reply 11, posted (2 years 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 13218 times:

It would have to be located a few miles offshore of Brooklyn in the Atlantic Ocean on an artificial island.

Also, it would have to ONLY be accessible via high speed rail links (plural). The train could be a "two class" service - open seating (economy) and a more private (business class) arrangement. It would be sensible to run 4 lines this offshore airport: One from the current EWR location, another from the Jamaica station in Queens, and another one serving Manhattan that would start at Penn station, go down to the WTC to pickup pax in downtown NYC and maybe another line from White Plains that would make a stop or two in The Bronx.


User currently offlinemax550 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 1150 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (2 years 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 13213 times:

Quoting azstar (Reply 3):
Where would you put a new airport? LGA is out of the question, and both EWR & JFK are already at capacity with no room for expansion.

Central Park, of course.

http://manhattanairport.org/


User currently offlineYankeesFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 216 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (2 years 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 13171 times:

Quoting jumpjets (Reply 10):
If you think this is far fetched take a look at the 'Could An "Artificial Island Airport" Replace LHR?' thread where the idea of creating an island in the Thames estuary is being floated [pardon the pun] as a replacement for LHR and LGW - so watch out coastal New York, it could be your turn for a new island ....

I looked at that earlier. That encouraged me to share my idea with fellow A Netters.



I hope you stand by your promises Obama. I will be really mad if you don't
User currently offlineEWRandMDW From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 416 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (2 years 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 13169 times:

Quoting YankeesFan (Thread starter):
Combining JFK, EWR, and LGA into one mega airport. Would it work? Also, I want to know why it would work or not.

You have two states sharing the three airports, EWR in New Jersey and the other two in New York. I can't imagine New Jersey allowing EWR to be torn up for a consolidated airport, especially if it is located within the boundaries of New York. Same for New York never permitting a consolidated airport to be within the boundaries of New Jersey. There's too much money and local pride at stake. I think an analogy would be building a joint London/Paris airport in the English Channel and have it be part of England (or France).


User currently offlinemham001 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3642 posts, RR: 5
Reply 15, posted (2 years 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 13144 times:

Just use the Hudson River.

User currently offlinejfklganyc From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3472 posts, RR: 5
Reply 16, posted (2 years 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 13129 times:

The artificial island airport was floated in the 70s. Was to be south of Brooklyn and east of Sandy Point.

Never implemented.

Sadly, we don't do great public works like that in the USA anymore. Enjoy the 3 airports as is...they will be that way throughout our lifetimes.


User currently offlineincitatus From Brazil, joined Feb 2005, 4014 posts, RR: 13
Reply 17, posted (2 years 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 13126 times:

Quoting YankeesFan (Thread starter):
Just thought of a extreme idea. Combining JFK, EWR, and LGA into one mega airport. Would it work? Also, I want to know why it would work or not.

Combine JFK, EWR, LGA and PHL into a massive facility in Fort Dix, in the middle of NJ - kinda of making NJ into one airport. Build HSR between Manhattan and downtown Philly going through the airport. Create check-in facilities and security in both Philly downtown and Manhattan, letting passengers out of the rail line into the secure area inside the airport. Plug HSR directly into the airport's inside-security light rail (walk out of HSR wagon into the light-rail wagon) so that no passenger has to walk more than 100 yards inside the airport.



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User currently offlinejcwr56 From United States of America, joined Jul 2012, 495 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (2 years 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 13120 times:

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 8):
Here's a quick summary fo what you are probably looking at...

6 Runways
300 ish gates
2 control towers
Massive air cargo facilities
High speed rail connection
Significant environmental and social backlash (assuming this airport would go in the lower hudson area between SWF and Manhattan
Up to 100,000 auto parking spaces

My "ballpark" cost estimate - $80-100 Billion, possibly more.

Sounds like politicans and unions wetdream....or here locally, Jessie Jacksons Jr.s one...


User currently offlineEWRandMDW From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 416 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (2 years 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 13120 times:

Quoting mham001 (Reply 15):
Just use the Hudson River.

Where would you put it? There are bridges, existing islands in the river (Governor's, Ellis, Bedloe's, Staten), seaports, and auto and rail tunnels to contend with.


User currently offlineYankeesFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 216 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (2 years 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 13093 times:

EWRandMDW
The three airports are part of the PANYNJ.

[Edited 2012-08-22 08:22:40]


I hope you stand by your promises Obama. I will be really mad if you don't
User currently offlineEWRandMDW From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 416 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (2 years 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 13017 times:

Quoting YankeesFan (Reply 20):
The three airports are part of the PANYNJ.

This has been discussed many times here, but once again, EWR is OWNED by the City of NEWARK and under long-term lease to the PA. Both states have to approve such a major undertaking. Remember, the name is Port Authority of New York AND New Jersey!. Maybe the agency should move its HQ to either Newark or Jersey City in New Jersey and rename itself Port Authority of New Jersey and New York? Do you think NY would go for that?


User currently offlineYankeesFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 216 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (2 years 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 12950 times:

Quoting EWRandMDW (Reply 21):
This has been discussed many times here, but once again, EWR is OWNED by the City of NEWARK and under long-term lease to the PA. Both states have to approve such a major undertaking. Remember, the name is Port Authority of New York AND New Jersey!. Maybe the agency should move its HQ to either Newark or Jersey City in New Jersey and rename itself Port Authority of New Jersey and New York? Do you think NY would go for that?

Thanks for telling me something I know already. I know PANYNJ stands for Port Authority of NY AND NJ. How are the airports in their current state going to handle an increasing # of pax in the future?



I hope you stand by your promises Obama. I will be really mad if you don't
User currently offlinekl911 From Czech Republic, joined Jul 2003, 5136 posts, RR: 12
Reply 23, posted (2 years 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 12815 times:

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 1):
It wont work because there is no spot relatively close where there is that much free land. To have an airport that can handle that much traffic, you would require a lot more space than any of the three airports has

Well, Heathrow isnt occupying that much space, and is the largest or almost largest airport in the world. Also Gatwick as largest single runway airport is an example. i reckon it has more to do how you manage the flow then with space.

But in general I think Americans first have to de-stress and quit the time is money thinking, so frequency will still be important but much lower, enabling larger planes to fly routes.

With all modern technology you would think that 3 flights a day on a route would be enough, the time normally spend waiting can be used to work remote using whatever devices.


User currently onlineASA From Bangladesh, joined Dec 2010, 731 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (2 years 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 12772 times:

Quoting EWRandMDW (Reply 19):
Quoting mham001 (Reply 15):
Just use the Hudson River.

Where would you put it? There are bridges, existing islands in the river (Governor's, Ellis, Bedloe's, Staten), seaports, and auto and rail tunnels to contend with.

I think he meant the Chesley "Sully" Sullenburger option ... 


25 Post contains images ASA : Wouldn't this be the urban equivalent of putting Queens, Brooklyn, Jamaica, and the Jersey side all in Manhattan Island? Also, why would you do this
26 Post contains images mham001 : Thank you. Good to see humor is not totally dead here. Beyond that though, it does solve the problem of fighting between NJ and NY over who gets it,
27 Post contains links mysterzip : All of the three airports may have to make do with the territory they have. Any move outside of those will be met with hostility from the residents th
28 YankeesFan : I like that. Or there can be a high speed line connecting the 3 airports.
29 jfk777 : IF New York were to build an airport like that Newark would have to stay open, the politics are too greasy. But a combined LGA/JFK replacement would c
30 FlyingHollander : I had fun drawing some ideas, this is one of them. If the harbor in Newark Bay south of the I-78 were moved and some land would be reclaimed to make i
31 COEWR787 : There are plans already in place to add capacity to JFK and EWR and then for further additional traffic develop Stewart (which is another PANYNJ mana
32 YankeesFan : That is a nice idea too.
33 YankeesFan : Or less than 10% because ANYTHING can happen.
34 N62NA : Or, same frequency, bigger planes to meet demand. We're kind of seeing that already in the NYC market. AA and DL have pretty much abandoned EWR, offe
35 STT757 : Is AMS a DL hub? I know it's a KLM hub, whom they have a joint venture, but is it a DL hub like SLC, ATL, DTW etc..
36 mogandoCI : UA has definitely abandoned JFK, but their LGA-ORD presence (and market share) is still formidable, and their grandfathered LGA-DEN service allows ma
37 YankeesFan : Yes it is.
38 FlyingHollander : Delta says it is. DL flies to SEA, PDX, MSP, DTW, MEM, BOS, JFK, EWR, ATL and BOM from AMS. So besides EWR DL only serves its hubs and focus cities i
39 plateman : I thought this thread was a joke then realized it is not 01-April Just get rid of New Jersey and made it a giant airport ... it may be for the better
40 Post contains images rmoore7734 : Shut down the PHL & NYC area airports and do following. All you have to do is hide it in the middle of the 115,000 acre Wharton State Forest in N
41 N62NA : Of course it is - it is an international hub for DL - and you know it. So what's your point of asking the question?
42 JHCRJ700 : My first thought! I saw that earlier...Oh brother... I took a look at their website. Are these people serious? That will NEVER happen for sooo many r
43 Post contains images cokepopper : Staten Island would be perfect. You would't loose anything if you tore it down, plus you would have water access all around....perfect solution!
44 Spacecadet : This topic, or a similar one, comes up about once every 3 months here, with varying degrees of seriousness. It could never work because you wouldn't n
45 par13del : Well a couple of things to think of: 1. Is the population of New York City and Newark growing or are people moving to the suburbs? 2. Do we have new
46 COEWR787 : The FAA Terminal Area Forecast Summary 2011 to 2040 says about annual boarding projections for 2040 compared to 2010 are: JFK 2010 22.395 billion 2040
47 Post contains images ASA : billion?!! am I seeing it right? World population is 7 billion.
48 Post contains images Spacecadet : In 2040, every man, woman and child on the planet will fly an average of 100 times per year
49 Post contains images YankeesFan : Yep. JK. I am sure he meant million instead of billion.
50 Rwy04LGA : Not likely - see below. Keep Todt Hill for an obversation deck I've heard that there are plans to eventually tear down the CTB and attendant hangars
51 FlyingHollander : A lot of people are saying it won't ever happen, so how come London is seriously considering consolidating several of their airports in the Thames Est
52 rwessel : Wouldn't the resulting prison riots make that idea impractical?
53 N62NA : Good one! Yep, I addressed that in my earlier post. But the sad reality is that we just don't build "big" anymore here in the USA, so we'll be stuck
54 STT757 : You start with bigger planes for one, second you invest in true European/Japanese style high speed rail to link NYC with New England, Up State NY, To
55 iFlyLOTs : I thought the exact same thing when I looked at their website. No need apparently to take into account the skyscrapers at the south end of the park.
56 kngkyle : Going along with what someone else mentioned before, basically a hub-and-spoke airport of sorts. Hub being the runways and terminals, spokes being aro
57 AADC10 : Building such a monster would be unbelievably expensive. Those costs would be rolled into landing and other fees which would end up much higher than a
58 STT757 : NJ supported, and funded, the new tunnels. Construction even began, but our new Governor wanted to earn some Conservative credentials by canceling a
59 par13del : Well if you consider the size of LHR and the number of runways and compare that to either JFK or EWR the biggest thing I take away is that the folks
60 N62NA : Incorrect. Good point!
61 VC10er : I live in lower Manhattan (10th st) - with no traffic 6:30am or Sunday morn etc it is 20 minutes by car, 25 or 30 to EWR and 40 min to JFK. I like tha
62 gigneil : They're all part of the Port Authority. NS
63 Post contains images ASA : We can call up Tommy Lee Jones if that happens ...
64 cloudboy : Aren't they already essentially the same? Most airlines let you fly into one and out of the other. It's just a matter of getting from one airport to t
65 slcdeltarumd11 : There will never be any consolidation. People wont travel that far. The only real possibility as a reliever was Stewart and without a highspeed train
66 Post contains images zippyjet : Never hurts to bandy the idea about. Of course we could also make it multi-purpose and also make it a mega jail. The IATA code could be CFI Cluster F
67 STT757 : Why do that when you could close LGA, or make it the main FBO airport replacing TEB, and instead invest that money into JFK. 1.) Expand JFK's runway
68 LTBEWR : The envriomental regulations, politics, NIMBY's and the obscene costs would make it impossible for a 'super airport' to replace the 3 in the NY City m
69 Post contains images max550 : I wondered the same thing. They seem to be semi-serious and must be getting funding from somewhere. I hadn't even considered clearing the obstacles.
70 STT757 : SWF is 60 miles from NYC, it's never going to be an alternative for anyone except those in Orange, Rockland, Putnam counties. Not exactly major busin
71 runway23 : Wouldn't the most simple solution be to just extend the AirTrain from JFK to LGA ? It already goes pretty much half way there right now anyways. Conti
72 STT757 : How would that help anyone though, if we are talking about meeting the needs of the NYC O&D market connecting LGA and JFK is useless. The only fo
73 Post contains images nycdave : Are. You. Nucking. Futs? You ARE aware that the Port of NY/NJ is one of the busiest in the world, right? And that most of that traffic goes into Newa
74 nycdave : Amen! I'm a huge booster for true HSR here in the US -- at least in the northeast. A tremendous volume of short-range traffic could be taken off the
75 STT757 : RIght now Port Newark/Elizabeth is the third busiest Port in the Country, projections are once the Panama Canal is widened (2014) the Port will over
76 FlyingHollander : How is the port going to handle the growth? There isn't much room in the immediate area. They are going to have to expand somewhere else. If they mak
77 YankeesFan : Ok!!!!!! No need for "Are You Nucking Futs".
78 daviation : I don't want to be disrespectful, but with the non-de-plume "Yankees Fan" can I assume you live in the Bronx or one of the boroughs of NYC? If you do,
79 STT757 : Passenger rail. With regards to the Tappan Zee bridge replacement while that will go forward it will be without a rail component. Adding a rail line
80 N62NA : And that's the root of the problem. When our existing rail lines were built, they were built by private entities. Now, for some reason, we expect the
81 STT757 : Actually that will be Amtrak, and it will be Miami-Jacksonville. FEC owns the line but Amtrak (Federal Government) will make improvements and operate
82 varsity : In my inexpert mind there is a great value to having diversity of airports. If one is closed (due to accident, fire that obscures visibility, or other
83 Post contains links N62NA : Nope, it will be Florida East Coast Railway. Florida East Coast Industries is taking steps to build a privately-funded, $1 billion passenger rail ser
84 YankeesFan : Yeah..... Well I am not always optimistic.
85 strfyr51 : there woukd have to ba a massive landfill island built in the port of newark and the portsof long island as the new airport would need to be in the ar
86 cloudboy : Um - why exactly are we doing this anyways? It's a solution for a problem no one has defined yet. The easiest answer is to just get more people to con
87 YankeesFan : Just wanted to introduce a topic.
88 N766UA : 20+ years in the future the nearest available plot of land suitable for such an airport will be somewhere just outside of Plattsburgh.
89 Post contains images N62NA : Because that's what we do here! And it's always good to think ahead and "out of the box" on things like this.
90 nycdave : To claim that they were built without any government assistance is, well, not supported by history. Government gave land to the railroads, funneled h
91 Post contains links N62NA : I'm not aware of any huge subsidies given to the Santa Fe, Union Pacific, Pennsylvania, Florida East Coast, etc during the second half of th 1800s /
92 Corinthians : High speed rail will never happen in this country. Private firms don't want to foot the bill (and every time they've put their hand in infrastructure,
93 N62NA : Yeah, but if only people could realize that they can rent a car at their destination's train station, then perhaps we would get more long distance ra
94 nycdave : The Union Pacific was built almost *entirely* with government-backed bonds, and direct infusions of government money. That's part of the reason the C
95 N62NA : @nycdave Very interesting info - you're a real railroad historian. Good to have you here! Let's keep an eye on how the Florida East Coast Railway does
96 Corinthians : Didn't governor Rick Scott cancel plans for this project? I was under the impression that he was against building rail in Florida. I thought he made
97 Post contains images mcoatc : This is a different project, that's privately funded. You're thinking of the DOT-funded project linking Orlando with Tampa that the governor opposed.
98 Mir : Easy to say, much harder to do with the environmental and NIMBY problems. You're either going to be putting fill into Jamaica Bay for a third 4/22 ru
99 Post contains images N62NA : mcoatc has it right: And practically everyone else that found out there would be a "high speed rail" line from Orlando to Tampa! * Yes, it was suppos
100 Mir : It would be much more than that. -Mir
101 Post contains links STT757 : The RPA came up with four proposals, three had Bay encroachment. One was totally within the current footprint. http://www.qchron.com/editions/queen..
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