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Why Alaska Chose DCA Over IAD And EWR Over LGA?  
User currently offlineg500 From United States of America, joined Oct 2011, 999 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 2 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 6185 times:
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In Washington they chose the smaller downtown airport (DCA) over the larger international one( IAD)

In N.Y, they chose the opposite, the larger airport (EWR) over the smaller downtown airport (LGA).. what gives

I assume they chose EWR over LGA because of the perimeter rule?

what about D.C. Why DCA over IAD?

22 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinemogandoCI From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (2 years 2 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 6161 times:

Quoting g500 (Thread starter):
In Washington they chose the smaller downtown airport (DCA) over the larger international one( IAD)

In N.Y, they chose the opposite, the larger airport (EWR) over the smaller downtown airport (LGA).. what gives

I assume they chose EWR over LGA because of the perimeter rule?

what about D.C. Why DCA over IAD?

They only chose EWR because of LGA perimeter rules. If DOT grants LGA exceptions, Alaska would be the first to jump on them.

Unlike IAD vs. DCA (which is far from convenient from nearly any part of DC), EWR is not much worse than LGA from certain parts of Manhattan. By the time you factor in traffic jams and terminal conditions, LGA's advantage is minimal.


User currently offlinespiritair97 From United States of America, joined Jan 2011, 1231 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (2 years 2 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 6143 times:

Quoting g500 (Thread starter):
In N.Y, they chose the opposite, the larger airport (EWR) over the smaller downtown airport (LGA)..

Well, for starters, it's MUCH harder to get perimeter exemptions at LGA, and when they started NYC service, they were codesharing with CO.

Quoting g500 (Thread starter):
In Washington they chose the smaller downtown airport (DCA) over the larger international one( IAD)
Quoting g500 (Thread starter):
what about D.C. Why DCA over IAD?

DCA is much more conviently located in the city of Washington D.C., like LGA, except it was MUCH easier to get the permission for their flights.


User currently offlineRoseflyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9666 posts, RR: 52
Reply 3, posted (2 years 2 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 6106 times:

LGA and DCA are preferrable airports but only perimeter exemptions are granted from DCA. AS did operate from IAD for a while after 9/11 before going back to DCA.


If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineBoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 3157 posts, RR: 7
Reply 4, posted (2 years 2 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 6076 times:

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 3):
AS did operate from IAD for a while after 9/11 before going back to DCA.

That's partially correct. They started DCA just before 9/11. When DCA was closed, they switched the flight (only one a day at that time) to IAD temporarily.

However, when DCA reopened, AS elected to also keep the IAD flight in addition to DCA. So they did both airports for several years. AS eventually did drop the IAD flight.


User currently offlineFI642 From Monaco, joined Mar 2005, 1079 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (2 years 2 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 6011 times:

Traditionally yields at DCA are also much higher than IAD or BWI. Go where the cash is!


737MAX, Cool Planes for the Worlds Coolest Airline.
User currently offlinesteex From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 1689 posts, RR: 9
Reply 6, posted (2 years 2 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 5954 times:

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 1):
If DOT grants LGA exceptions, Alaska would be the first to jump on them.
Quoting spiritair97 (Reply 2):
Well, for starters, it's MUCH harder to get perimeter exemptions at LGA,

There is no such thing as a perimeter exemption at LGA. The DEN flights exist because all LGA-DEN service is grandfathered in by virtue of flights being on the route before the perimeter was established. The perimeter also does not apply on Saturdays, allowing service beyond 1,500 miles. However, those are both passages within the rule itself, not exemptions.

Additionally, DOT would not be involved with the decisions at LGA, it is a PANYNJ rule that sets the perimeter. They would be the agency responsible for any relaxing of the rule or granting of exemptions if they so chose.


User currently offlineseabosdca From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 5608 posts, RR: 6
Reply 7, posted (2 years 2 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 5858 times:

Quoting g500 (Thread starter):
what about D.C. Why DCA over IAD?

Money. The SEA-DCA flights print money for the airline, even though they're long transcons. LAX-DCA is also a very good flight, although not as strong as SEA because AS doesn't have the same frequent flyer base in LAX.


User currently offlineg500 From United States of America, joined Oct 2011, 999 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (2 years 2 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 5782 times:
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Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 1):
They only chose EWR because of LGA perimeter rules. If DOT grants LGA exceptions, Alaska would be the first to jump on them.

yeah I figure as much


User currently offlinedavescj From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 2307 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (2 years 2 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 5609 times:

With AS having more code-shares with DL, I wonder if AS would consider a weekend LGA service and have DL do the check-in/boarding....

With the massive numbers of code shares, it could seem like a logical progression, no?

Dave



Can I have a mojito on this flight?
User currently offlinesteex From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 1689 posts, RR: 9
Reply 10, posted (2 years 2 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 5564 times:

Quoting davescj (Reply 9):

With AS having more code-shares with DL, I wonder if AS would consider a weekend LGA service and have DL do the check-in/boarding....

With the massive numbers of code shares, it could seem like a logical progression, no?

This isn't likely, there just isn't the demand for high-yield traffic on Saturdays to make it worthwhile - especially since AS would have to go to the expense of contracting DL (or someone) to do all the handling for a single flight at a new station.

You'll notice that none of the majors bother connecting their own beyond-perimeter hubs to LGA on Saturdays for the same reason (with the current exception of US to PHX, but that service also ends in a few weeks). The is no AA service to LAX, no UA to LAX/SFO, no DL to SLC, etc. Some of those have been tried at various times, but never work out. The demand just isn't there.


User currently offlineEzra From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 474 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (2 years 2 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 5519 times:

Would there be any reason for AS to fly to JFK, or does DL have sufficient lift on that route for both airlines?

User currently offlineiowaman From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4416 posts, RR: 6
Reply 12, posted (2 years 2 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 5460 times:
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Quoting g500 (Thread starter):
I assume they chose EWR over LGA because of the perimeter rule?
Quoting g500 (Reply 8):
Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 1):They only chose EWR because of LGA perimeter rules. If DOT grants LGA exceptions, Alaska would be the first to jump on them.
yeah I figure as much

While LGA probably wins out as the preferred airport, last time I flew into NYC from MSP I actually used EWR - it really isn't much further away from areas such as Manhattan than LGA, depending on what part of NYC a person is traveling to (especially Staten Island). DCA vs. IAD is much more cut and dry since IAD is way out in the western suburbs.


User currently offlineBoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 3157 posts, RR: 7
Reply 13, posted (2 years 2 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 5453 times:

Quoting Ezra (Reply 11):
Would there be any reason for AS to fly to JFK, or does DL have sufficient lift on that route for both airlines?

AA flies that route also which is the code-share wh*re's other biggest partner. Apparently AS feels that code-sharing with both AA and DL to JFK is sufficient.


User currently offlinekgaiflyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 4300 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (2 years 2 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 5188 times:
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Quoting spiritair97 (Reply 2):
DCA is much more conveniently located in the city of Washington D.C.,

Allow me to nitpick -- geographically, DCA is in Arlington County Virginia -- separated from Washington DC by the Potomac River. Makes no difference -- it's still convenient.


Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 4):
However, when DCA reopened, AS elected to also keep the IAD flight in addition to DCA. So they did both airports for several years. AS eventually did drop the IAD flight.

I remember that -- they shared an IAD gate with BWIA (as it was called at the time)


User currently offlineBoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 3157 posts, RR: 7
Reply 15, posted (2 years 2 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 5151 times:

Quoting kgaiflyer (Reply 14):
Allow me to nitpick -- geographically, DCA is in Arlington County Virginia -- separated from Washington DC by the Potomac River. Makes no difference -- it's still convenient.

Yeah, it was like a 10 minute Metro ride. I did the AS flight to DCA and it couldn't possibly have been more convenient. It was probably the most convenient airport to any large city that I've ever flown into, given how convenient that Metro connection was.

Quoting kgaiflyer (Reply 14):
I remember that -- they shared an IAD gate with BWIA (as it was called at the time)

Yeah, that makes an interesting trivia question that has been posed on A.net before (I think I actually posted it). Name the cities that mainline AS has dropped out of, not counting those that just turned over to QX (e.g. LTO). IAD is one of the less remembered ones (others off-hand are CUN, ACA,
User currently offlinegigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 16, posted (2 years 2 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 5088 times:

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 15):
It was probably the most convenient airport to any large city that I've ever flown into, given how convenient that Metro connection was.

I have long said so. DCA is by far one of most convenient airports ever.

NS


User currently offlinespiritair97 From United States of America, joined Jan 2011, 1231 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (2 years 2 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 4811 times:

Quoting kgaiflyer (Reply 14):
DCA is in Arlington County Virginia -- separated from Washington DC by the Potomac River

You are correct. I should have know, given I actually have family who live in Arlington.


User currently offlineTomassjc From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 884 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (2 years 2 months 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 4308 times:
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Quoting g500 (Thread starter):
I assume they chose EWR over LGA because of the perimeter rule?


Also at the time AS started serving EWR they code shared heavily with CO, which I believe was a major factor.

Tomas SJC



When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth with your eyes turned skyward -Leonardo DaVinci
User currently offlineseabosdca From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 5608 posts, RR: 6
Reply 19, posted (2 years 2 months 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 4289 times:

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 15):
It was probably the most convenient airport to any large city that I've ever flown into, given how convenient that Metro connection was.

I'll connect into DCA before I'll take a nonstop into IAD or BWI. That's how much more convenient it is.

I'm on those AS flights quite a bit (including this Saturday)...


User currently offlinewedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5926 posts, RR: 6
Reply 20, posted (2 years 2 months 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 4095 times:
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Quoting seabosdca (Reply 7):
Money. The SEA-DCA flights print money for the airline, even though they're long transcons. LAX-DCA is also a very good flight, although not as strong as SEA because AS doesn't have the same frequent flyer base in LAX.

SEA-DCA is more popular because of the connection opportunities, especially to AK. PDX-DCA will perform just as strong as SEA-DCA because of the connection possibilities.

What surprises me is if AS has such a strong alliance with both DL and AA, then why doesn't AS start flying to JFK? Too much competition with AA, DL and B6?


User currently offlineRWA380 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3371 posts, RR: 5
Reply 21, posted (2 years 2 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 3808 times:

Quoting spiritair97 (Reply 2):
Well, for starters, it's MUCH harder to get perimeter exemptions at LGA

I'm sure that it's impossible, except one day a week.

Quoting Ezra (Reply 11):
Would there be any reason for AS to fly to JFK, or does DL have sufficient lift on that route for both airlines?
Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 20):

What surprises me is if AS has such a strong alliance with both DL and AA, then why doesn't AS start flying to JFK? Too much competition with AA, DL and B6?

I asked this question a few months back, even started a thread about it, and the answer I got over and over, was DL & AA which both code share that route with AS, have more than enough lift to cover it.



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User currently offlinegigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 22, posted (2 years 2 months 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 3730 times:

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 19):
I'll connect into DCA before I'll take a nonstop into IAD or BWI. That's how much more convenient it is.

I used to.

Now I can fly there nonstop from most of the places I desire to go, like from home to there.

NS


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