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Air Berlin's Future In The US  
User currently offlineDariusBieber From United States of America, joined Oct 2009, 209 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 3 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 7758 times:

I've tried looking for this specific question on the forum, but couldn't really see it being discussed on a US-based perspective.


With them now being a Member of One World, will Air Berlin fly to DFW or ORD in the near future to their Hub in DUS? This would certainly put a damper on LH's and DL's flights to DUS. In my experiences, all LH's and DL's flights to DUS were/are full.

AA's connecting traffic to both DFW and ORD are enormous in terms of passengers carried, could a route to DUS by AB be sustained from those AA hubs?


Darius Bieber
38 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinestrfyr51 From United States of America, joined Apr 2012, 1398 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (2 years 3 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 7700 times:
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Idon't see why Not!!

User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8494 posts, RR: 6
Reply 2, posted (2 years 3 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 7657 times:
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Air Berlin is flying daily to Miami this summer. ORD more the zone for AB, don't see many Germans going to Texas or Texans gong to Dusseldorf.

User currently offlinejcwr56 From United States of America, joined Jul 2012, 541 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (2 years 3 months 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 7541 times:

Perhaps since it's more of a Oneworld Hub to hub now....you'll see this again in the near future.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1...duesseldorf-daily-non-stop-service


User currently offlineIndustryInsider From United States of America, joined Oct 2010, 30 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (2 years 3 months 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 7088 times:

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 2):
Air Berlin is flying daily to Miami this summer. ORD more the zone for AB, don't see many Germans going to Texas or Texans gong to Dusseldorf.

Why not? German immigrants settled in the Texas Hill Country region in the mid-19th century. These immigrants founded the towns of New Braunfels, Fredericksburg, Boerne, Schulenburg, Weimar, Walburg, and Comfort.


User currently offlinejreuschl From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 550 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (2 years 3 months 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 7071 times:

They are flying to ORD beginning in March 2013.

User currently offlineflymia From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 7273 posts, RR: 6
Reply 6, posted (2 years 3 months 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 6992 times:

Quoting IndustryInsider (Reply 4):
Why not? German immigrants settled in the Texas Hill Country region in the mid-19th century. These immigrants founded the towns of New Braunfels, Fredericksburg, Boerne, Schulenburg, Weimar, Walburg, and Comfort.


Why would German Tourist go to Texas? Who cares about Immigrants in the 19th century. Doubt they are going to Germany to visit relatives. I am sure there are some Germany tourist in Texas but probably not enough for a flight. Now if they flew to DFW for connection opportunities that would be a different thing.

I am happy to see RSW still around along with DUS and TXL/BER from MIA



"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
User currently offlineSenchingo From Germany, joined Oct 2010, 111 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (2 years 3 months 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 6973 times:

Quoting jreuschl (Reply 5):
They are flying to ORD beginning in March 2013.

Starting March 23rd from BER (not DUS) to ORD.

Also flying to RSW, LAS, LAX, MIA, JFK and SFO.


User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7807 posts, RR: 25
Reply 8, posted (2 years 3 months 4 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 6958 times:

Quoting flymia (Reply 6):
Why would German Tourist go to Texas? Who cares about Immigrants in the 19th century. Doubt they are going to Germany to visit relatives. I am sure there are some Germany tourist in Texas but probably not enough for a flight. Now if they flew to DFW for connection opportunities that would be a different thing.

Well, DFW-FRA is a pretty large local market. Largest Texas-Germany local market and its supported two carriers for years. But its not tourist traffic, its pretty much all business.

As far as tourism to Texas there isnt much of that from anywhere outside of the US, Mexico, and Central America. But there DFW and Houston are huge business centers that recieve people from all over the globe.



Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently offlineDariusBieber From United States of America, joined Oct 2009, 209 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (2 years 3 months 4 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 6831 times:

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 2):
don't see many Germans going to Texas or Texans gong to Dusseldorf.

Hmm Lufthansa seems to do pretty well using A380s from IAH to FRA. If there was a flight to DUS from DFW, I guarantee people will book it over FRA if they are connecting in Germany.

As I've been to both DUS and FRA, I can say with certainty that connecting in DUS is so much easier. Passport control is way faster, even with only 4 or so Bundespolizei available at the counters. The airport itself is smaller, making connections easier as well.



Darius Bieber
User currently offlineflymia From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 7273 posts, RR: 6
Reply 10, posted (2 years 3 months 4 weeks ago) and read 6732 times:

Quoting DariusBieber (Reply 9):
Hmm Lufthansa seems to do pretty well using A380s from IAH to FRA. If there was a flight to DUS from DFW, I guarantee people will book it over FRA if they are connecting in Germany.
Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 8):
But its not tourist traffic, its pretty much all business.


Exactly, AB is not an airline hauling business travelers around. They focus on leisure markets, at least long haul.



"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
User currently offlineflyguy89 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 2000 posts, RR: 21
Reply 11, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 6581 times:

Quoting flymia (Reply 10):
Quoting DariusBieber (Reply 9):
Hmm Lufthansa seems to do pretty well using A380s from IAH to FRA. If there was a flight to DUS from DFW, I guarantee people will book it over FRA if they are connecting in Germany.
Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 8):
But its not tourist traffic, its pretty much all business.


Exactly, AB is not an airline hauling business travelers around. They focus on leisure markets, at least long haul.

They do both, although their original specialty was serving the leisure markets. They have a comparable enough business and economy product on both short and long-haul and they've been working to morph into low-fare, full-service-type carrier for a while now, joining oneWorld is a part of that strategy and they most certainly will be going after the biz travelers in NYC and ORD.


User currently offlinecolumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7089 posts, RR: 4
Reply 12, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 6287 times:

If AB manages to survive the next months and if the new airport in Berlin will not be delayed too much there is a great hope that AB will become a great alternative on flights to the US, I wish them well......

They will need more longhaul planes though also I believe they could go for some 787-9s instead of the -8 but right now AB is other problems to be solved

[Edited 2012-08-23 02:52:39]


It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
User currently offlinepoint2point From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 2766 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 6239 times:

Quoting Senchingo (Reply 7):
Starting March 23rd from BER (not DUS) to ORD.

Also flying to RSW, LAS, LAX, MIA, JFK and SFO.

Bring them into DEN. There would be enough O&D both ways to fill a few flights a week during the high season.

 


User currently offlinefrat From Germany, joined Sep 2003, 1107 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 6077 times:

Quoting Senchingo (Reply 7):
Also flying to RSW, LAS, LAX, MIA, JFK and SFO.

I don't see the DUS-LAS flight loaded for next summer.
Same as DUS-YVR.


User currently offlineRogerThat From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 566 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 6076 times:

Quoting flymia (Reply 6):
Why would German Tourist go to Texas?

Why would tourists from anywhere go to Texas?


User currently offlineAWACSooner From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 1972 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 5915 times:

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 2):
Texans gong to Dusseldorf.

I'm moving that way in January...it'd work for me...therefore, AB should start that route NOW!  


User currently offlinedcaviation From Poland, joined Aug 2011, 222 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 5869 times:

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 8):
Largest Texas-Germany local market

No its not. Houston has largest Texas-Germany local market.


User currently offlinevfw614 From Germany, joined Dec 2001, 4060 posts, RR: 5
Reply 18, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 5745 times:

As they have axed everything east of AUH already because of the Etihad cooperation, one has to wonder what the future long-haul operation will look like if they cut back routes to the US and Canada rather than expanding their TATL network. Not much left where they could deploy their WB fleet to.

User currently offlineflyguy89 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 2000 posts, RR: 21
Reply 19, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 5598 times:

Quoting RogerThat (Reply 15):
Quoting flymia (Reply 6):
Why would German Tourist go to Texas?

Why would tourists from anywhere go to Texas?

Texas gets a fair amount of tourists but, as stated previously, most of it's domestic. A lot of people vacation on Texas' Gulf Coast, they have some pretty nice beaches...and then the cities of Dallas, Austin, and Houston can be destinations in and of themselves, Austin in particular as there's a pretty big music scene there among other things.


User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7807 posts, RR: 25
Reply 20, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 5569 times:

Quoting dcaviation (Reply 17):
No its not. Houston has largest Texas-Germany local market.


DFW-FRA is the largest city pair from Texas to Germany slightly edging out IAH-FRA according to the O&D data I have seen. Not sure about the whole country, I would have to look it up.

[Edited 2012-08-23 10:40:58]


Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently offlineIndustryInsider From United States of America, joined Oct 2010, 30 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 5233 times:

Quoting flymia (Reply 6):
Why would German Tourist go to Texas? Who cares about Immigrants in the 19th century. Doubt they are going to Germany to visit relatives. I am sure there are some Germany tourist in Texas but probably not enough for a flight. Now if they flew to DFW for connection opportunities that would be a different thing.

Glad to know you are so much of an aficionado when it comes to the demographics of Texas. I put thie previous comment out there simply to illustrate there are large German based communities in Texas. To you point:

Quoting flymia (Reply 10):
AB is not an airline hauling business travelers around. They focus on leisure markets, at least long haul.

I'm glad you know exactly what AB is after; however, this statement proves you do not. I actually have regular conversations with the AB managment, so maybe in this instance you don't know as much as you believe. That is no way implying that AB is interested in DFW, but rather is simply pointing out that you are simply spouting inaccuracies to get a rise out of people.


User currently offlineMAV88 From United States of America, joined May 2011, 183 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 5109 times:

Quoting flymia (Reply 10):

Exactly, AB is not an airline hauling business travelers around. They focus on leisure markets, at least long haul.

I am willing to bet Texas is not too high on the list of places for German and really most European tourists for that matter. They all flock to Boston, NYC, Washington, D.C., Chicago, San Francisco, Los Angeles and Florida in the states.


User currently offlineIrishAyes From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 2240 posts, RR: 15
Reply 23, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 5093 times:

Quoting flymia (Reply 10):
Exactly, AB is not an airline hauling business travelers around. They focus on leisure markets, at least long haul.

AB could not survive in this fuel cost environment entering into the long-haul sector and targeting after only leisure traffic. Yes, they may be currently present in more leisure-oriented markets, but that doesn't solely define the type of passenger they are going after. In fact, quite the opposite given their current operating model (higher frequency, interline agreements, codeshare, alliances, etc).



next flights: jfk-icn, icn-hkg-bkk-cdg, cdg-phl-msp
User currently offlineflymia From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 7273 posts, RR: 6
Reply 24, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 5065 times:

Quoting MAV88 (Reply 22):
I am willing to bet Texas is not too high on the list of places for German and really most European tourists for that matter. They all flock to Boston, NYC, Washington, D.C., Chicago, San Francisco, Los Angeles and Florida in the states.

Of course. Texas is a big business destination but not exactly a place many international tourist flock to.

Quoting IndustryInsider (Reply 21):
but rather is simply pointing out that you are simply spouting inaccuracies to get a rise out of people.

You believe I am stating this to get rises out of people? AB for a long time has been a heavy leisure airline. Joining OW will change that. If we look at their destinations we can see that. They also do not have a true first class product as of now. Do they get business travelers of course they do every airline does. But IMO it is not their main goal and their aircraft and destinations seem show that. I expect with OW for this to change.
But get a rise out of people, come on I have more important things to do.



"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
25 Senchingo : It is seasonal afaik
26 IrishAyes : Sigh. I don't think you're doing this to get a rise out of people, but I think you do tend to stretch the truth before checking your facts when you m
27 flymia : I will agree with that. I also think adding AB is great for OW. Certainly, there is plenty of domestic tourist to see. There is history in Texas that
28 flyguy89 : Oh I very much agree, and if AB decided to serve DFW it would purely be for connections and O&D. I was more trying to address the person who aske
29 columba : Not for the time being but once BER opened and they have their 787s this might be an option. But maybe AA fly to BER instead
30 Post contains images fraT : But it's not loaded for the winter either.
31 fraT : Well, to get to that point they have to survive the coming winter. With their critical topics (constant losses in recent years, BER delay, rumored EY
32 flyingalex : They haven't axed everything east of AUH, they still fly to HKT, although via AUH. Interestingly, EY codeshares on that flight and you can book that
33 Post contains links N62NA : To go here, of course! http://southfork.com/ Yep, now that Malev is no more. Makes sense!
34 4engines4lnghll : Why would AB fly to IAH rather than DFW.. Their OW partner is at DFW .
35 4engines4lnghll : If AB had a nonstop route to DFW that could give passengers a huge advantage to many other destinations. AA has a lot of cities from MIA as well just
36 IrishAyes : While I agree that the connection possibilities are great, the challenge for AB will be insuring that they can fill the plane profitably, and year-ro
37 flyingalex : Personally, I think it would be DUS-DFW rather than BER-DFW. The former has a much, much better change of attracting O&D business traffic and the
38 IrishAyes : I agree with you on the business traffic component, but connecting traffic beyond a hub in Eastern Europe is still key to the value proposition that
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