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IB Needs To Prepare For More Long-Haul Competition  
User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8801 posts, RR: 5
Posted (2 years 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 11604 times:
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IAG has warned Iberia to be prepared for increasing competition on routes between Europe and Latin America. While European carriers currently dominate traffic between Europe and Latin America, certain Latin American airline groups have invested heavily in renewing their respective fleets and are looking to increase flights between Latin America and Europe. Airline groups such as Aeroméxico, AviancaTaca and LATAM Airlines have new long-haul a/c on order and will increase flights to Europe and also into IB's hub at MAD. How will IB prepare for the increasing competition that it will soon face on its routes between MAD and Latin America?

IAG tells Iberia to prepare for a changing Europe-Latin America competitive setting

[Edited 2012-08-23 13:05:30]

74 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently onlineLJ From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4418 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (2 years 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 10852 times:

Quoting SCL767 (Thread starter):
How will IB prepare for the increasing competition that it will soon face on its routes between MAD and Latin America?

Probably they won´t. It surprises me that KL is able to fill a daily MD11/777 to PTY (and in W12 sometimes a 77W) whereas IB hasn´t able to grow their presence in PTY. Granted, local traffic between PTY and AMS increased over the years, but where TP has managed to keep its position in the Europe-Brazil market, IB seems to be sleeping and let the traffic go to the competition. Moreover, I don´t understand that IB doesn´t seem to be very aggressive towards Skyteam (if you look at the table in the article Skyteam has positions 2, 5, 6 and 8). Though this can be explained by the lack of Latin American partners.

Maybe this will change when IB receives their A330s, but these will replace the A340s initially, thus i doubt they´ll open new stations.


User currently offlineyellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 6106 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (2 years 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 10747 times:

Quoting LJ (Reply 1):
IB hasn´t able to grow their presence in PTY.

This is not true....the PTY flight used to be a triangle with GUA but is now dedicated, ...so it has grown.....albeit more slowly than KL.

Remember IB is also right next door in SJO too so the flights do tend to cannabalize each other. KL does not have that issue



When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
User currently offlineincitatus From Brazil, joined Feb 2005, 4009 posts, RR: 13
Reply 3, posted (2 years 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 10458 times:

Quoting SCL767 (Thread starter):
Airline groups such as Aeroméxico, AviancaTaca and LATAM Airlines have new long-haul a/c on order and will increase flights to Europe and also into IB's hub at MAD. How will IB prepare for the increasing competition that it will soon face on its routes between MAD and Latin America?

IB has an advantage in Madrid that it is well located geographically in Europe for connections. So it can tap into more large markets to fill its South Atlantic network than the carriers in Latin America can. It can also expand beyond Europe to create connection opportunities that today only exist with a double-connect MAD-LHR.

Looking at Europe as whole, AF/KL should be at least as concerned as IAG. They have more capacity to Latin America than IB/BA do.



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User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8801 posts, RR: 5
Reply 4, posted (2 years 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 10417 times:
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Quoting incitatus (Reply 3):
IB has an advantage in Madrid that it is well located geographically in Europe for connections. So it can tap into more large markets to fill its South Atlantic network than the carriers in Latin America can.

What other large markets in Latin America do you see IB expanding into?

Quoting incitatus (Reply 3):
It can also expand beyond Europe to create connection opportunities that today only exist with a double-connect MAD-LHR.

IB is slowly expanding into Africa, do you think IB will operate flights to the Far East in the long-term?


User currently offlinekaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12431 posts, RR: 37
Reply 5, posted (2 years 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 10415 times:

Quoting SCL767 (Thread starter):
IAG has warned Iberia to be prepared for increasing competition on routes between Europe and Latin America. While European carriers currently dominate traffic between Europe and Latin America, certain Latin American airline groups have invested heavily in renewing their respective fleets and are looking to increase flights between Latin America and Europe

Iberia SHOULD be the No1 choice; it has a superb new terminal at MAD and of course, being a Spanish carrier, it should be the natural choice to anywhere it Latin America. It's not the fleet that's the issue, it's the people. Surely IAG knows this; they can spend billions on a shiny new terminal and shiny new airplanes, but what they really need to spend billions on is their people - training them and making them understand that if their carrier is to grow, they need to play their part - be interested in providing a good service, look like they enjoy doing what they do, BE NICE, BE HELPFUL, BE, well, anything but what they are at the moment.


User currently offlinemogandoCI From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (2 years 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 10282 times:

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 4):
What other large markets in Latin America do you see IB expanding into?

For starters, all those 2nd tier Brazillian destinations that TAP does but IB ignores.


User currently offlineincitatus From Brazil, joined Feb 2005, 4009 posts, RR: 13
Reply 7, posted (2 years 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 10219 times:

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 4):
What other large markets in Latin America do you see IB expanding into?

That is not what I referred to.

IB can sell online services through MAD for a large set of large markets beyond MAD. It can expand beyong Europe into Asia and Middle East and connect those services with Latin America.

If Latin carriers add service into a city in Europe not in their alliance, all they can sell is pretty much Latin America to Europe. And the markets without any European carrier presence in Latin America are small.

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 4):
IB is slowly expanding into Africa, do you think IB will operate flights to the Far East in the long-term?

China and Japan.



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User currently offlineMFC From Spain, joined Feb 2006, 261 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (2 years 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 10123 times:

They are aware of that. The management have developed a project to improve quality everywhere, such as onboard service, ground service, punctuality, efficiency, connections... All 340 fleet is going to be refurbished with new interiors: A330 and A346 fleet will get PTV's in all classes and a new J class will be installed. A343 will also be refurbished with new interiors, but they won't have PTV's in Economy, although they will have plugs in every seat. Every purser will have an iPad with all the details of the flight in order to have everything under control and help the passengers. These are some examples of what they're doing, hopefully in a year we will see a much improved Iberia.


So, we beat on, boats against the current, borne back ceaselessly into the past
User currently offlineLHRFlyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2010, 815 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (2 years 3 days ago) and read 9610 times:

Quoting MFC (Reply 8):
Every purser will have an iPad with all the details of the flight in order to have everything under control and help the passengers.

A good example of an initiative that has been very successful at BA being transferred across to Iberia.


User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8801 posts, RR: 5
Reply 10, posted (2 years 3 days ago) and read 9500 times:
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Quoting kaitak (Reply 5):
Iberia SHOULD be the No1 choice; it has a superb new terminal at MAD and of course, being a Spanish carrier, it should be the natural choice to anywhere it Latin America.

I have transited through T4 at MAD many times and it is a great facility.

Quoting kaitak (Reply 5):
It's not the fleet that's the issue, it's the people. Surely IAG knows this; they can spend billions on a shiny new terminal and shiny new airplanes, but what they really need to spend billions on is their people - training them and making them understand that if their carrier is to grow, they need to play their part - be interested in providing a good service, look like they enjoy doing what they do, BE NICE, BE HELPFUL, BE, well, anything but what they are at the moment.

Even though I have never flown on IB's long-haul services; the most common complaint about IB is the lack of customer service at all levels. It will be interesting to see how IAG changes customer service standards at IB.

Quoting incitatus (Reply 7):

That is not what I referred to.

IB can sell online services through MAD for a large set of large markets beyond MAD. It can expand beyong Europe into Asia and Middle East and connect those services with Latin America.

And IB's alliance partner LAN also code-shares on all IB operated flights between MAD and UIO/GYE, LIM and SCL. LAN also code-shares on certain domestic and short-haul routes operated by IB via MAD. LAN will increase flights into MAD; which will benefit IB's operations.

Quoting incitatus (Reply 7):


Quoting SCL767 (Reply 4):
IB is slowly expanding into Africa, do you think IB will operate flights to the Far East in the long-term?

China and Japan.

Perhaps IB will consider launching services to PEK, PVG and NRT when they have the right a/c to operate those routes.


User currently offlinePlymSpotter From Spain, joined Jun 2004, 11644 posts, RR: 60
Reply 11, posted (2 years 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 9197 times:

Quoting MFC (Reply 8):

They are aware of that. The management have developed a project to improve quality everywhere, such as onboard service, ground service, punctuality, efficiency, connections... All 340 fleet is going to be refurbished with new interiors: A330 and A346 fleet will get PTV's in all classes and a new J class will be installed. A343 will also be refurbished with new interiors, but they won't have PTV's in Economy, although they will have plugs in every seat.

That's good to hear, their hard product really lets them down at the moment as it's so far behind other airlines. Also interesting that the A343s will be around for longer after all.


Dan  



...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
User currently offlinePDPsol From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 1114 posts, RR: 5
Reply 12, posted (2 years 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 8957 times:

The writing has been on the wall for quite some time. The 'cash cow' MAD-LATAM market that IB has relied on for years to provide growth is changing. With economic growth in LATAM [by the way, I am referring to the entire Latin American market here, not the LA/JJ Holding company] comes greater traffic, greater competition, and greater customer expectations.

IAG knows exactly what the strengths and limitations are at its IB subsidiary:

i) They know regional carriers such as AV, AM-Transportes Aereos Meridionais (Brazil)">JJ, LA and AM are enhancing route frequencies and product quality to Europe
ii) They know European competitors like AF and LH are very, very interested in taking advantage of the growing market to LATAM
iii) They know Middle East 'network' carriers like EK, TK and QR wish to exploit untapped demand to Asia from LATAM.

However, they also know IB and its management team has been resting on its long-haul laurels for too long. BA understands long-haul better than most carriers, and certainly better than their colleagues at IB. Any grandiose pretensions at management independence IB had before the IAG merger have been thrown out. Difficult times require difficult choices and I foresee material changes in IB's governance in the medium term. IAG have already stared down IB's labor unions and they are solely focused on maximizing value for their shareholders, as they should.

IB's MAD-LATAM franchise is a very valuable gem, and IAG will not squander an opportunity to make it even more valuable.


User currently offlineTalaier From Spain, joined May 2008, 490 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (2 years 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 8818 times:

IB has about 2-3 years to fight back before it loses it's leadership throughout all markets. It still has room to grow since places like SCL, BOG, GIG and potentially CCS should all see double daily flights within the next 3 years given sustained growth. As to other markets, IB still has growth in three segments: Central American triangulars, smaller countries with no direct link from Europe (Paraguay, Bolivia) and secondary destinations in Argentina, Brazil, Colombia and Mexico. It needs 330s for a big chunk of those markets, which are one their way.

As to Asia, I wouldn't expect anything until 2014, unless JAL or Cathay start flying before.


User currently offlineincitatus From Brazil, joined Feb 2005, 4009 posts, RR: 13
Reply 14, posted (2 years 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 8788 times:

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 10):
And IB's alliance partner LAN also code-shares on all IB operated flights between MAD and UIO/GYE, LIM and SCL. LAN also code-shares on certain domestic and short-haul routes operated by IB via MAD. LAN will increase flights into MAD; which will benefit IB's operations.

With alliances it is a very different story.

Quoting Talaier (Reply 13):
IB has about 2-3 years to fight back before it loses it's leadership throughout all markets.

Also it is quite possible that IAG grows through BA London to Latin America. While IB's share might become smaller, BA's share might grow.



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User currently offlinePDPsol From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 1114 posts, RR: 5
Reply 15, posted (2 years 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 8757 times:

Quoting Talaier (Reply 13):
As to other markets, IB still has growth in three segments: Central American triangulars, smaller countries with no direct link from Europe (Paraguay, Bolivia)

Fine, however, these are smaller markets, not material enough to 'move the needle'. Brasil, and to a lesser extent, Mexico, is where the action is.

Quoting Talaier (Reply 13):
secondary destinations in Argentina, Brazil, Colombia and Mexico

Agreed, especially Brasil. Brasil is the most important market and IB has dropped the ball in opening large 'secondary' cities such as CNF or BSB to MAD.

Quoting Talaier (Reply 13):
It needs 330s for a big chunk of those markets, which are one their way.

They need to adopt a long-haul fleet strategy quickly, the A330-300 is fine, but cannot replace the need for a longer-term solution. One can only imagine IAG has been evaluating this very carefully.

Mergers offer the opportunity to eliminate operational redundancy. IAG may be evaluating its original list to include much greater levels of integration with BA, including more aggressive fleet coordination and executive management. While Spain and the UK are obviously not the United States, but enhanced efficiency, including labor, is a top priority.


User currently offlineIBERIA747 From Spain, joined Aug 2003, 1831 posts, RR: 58
Reply 16, posted (2 years 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 8723 times:

Quoting MFC (Reply 8):
A343 will also be refurbished with new interiors, but they won't have PTV's in Economy, although they will have plugs in every seat.

This has been done already.

7 A343s have been refurbished by removing the second Business Plus cabin (rows 6 and 7) and installing additional economy seats in that area. Those are brand new slimline seats with power plugs and adjustable headrests. Aditionally, big LCD monitors (37" or 40") have been installed in central bulkheads while smaller LCD monitors have replaced the old CRT screens above the central seats. It's not the best improvement but at least it's better than nothing!. I've had the chance to try these new cabins and I found them acceptable. At least they look more modern.

This is what Iberia called "Proyecto Caribe" and these aircraft with a bigger economy class section are mostly flown (although not exclusively) to those destinations which have a lower demand in Business Class, such as SDQ, HAV, GUA/SAL, PTY, UIO/GYE and a few others. Their new configuration is 24J / 267Y.

Their registrations are:
EC-GGS
EC-GHX
EC-GJT
EC-GLE
EC-GUP
EC-GUQ
EC-HGV

The 9 A343s remaining (Iberia only has 16 active A343s right now) still have the "IB standard" 36J / 218Y configuration. It has been mentioned that these aircraft could soon be getting the same seats that have been installed in the other 343s while keeping their current config., but hasn't been confirmed AFAIK.

EC-HDQ, EC-HGU and EC-HGX have been retired recently (April and June 2012), and the next A343 scheduled for retirement is EC-LHM (April 2013).

As has been mentioned, the first A346s are expected to go into the hangars for a full cabin refurbishment by the end of the year. They will get the long awaited new economy seats with PTVs and probably the new Business Plus seats as well.

The new A330-300s will start arriving in January, and these will have the new seats, of course.

Can't confirm if the previously-announced IB new corporate image will be applied to these new aircraft, though. Nothing new has been said about this. Not even in certain Spanish Aviation forums which are frequently used by IB employees.

Quoting LJ (Reply 1):
IB hasn´t able to grow their presence in PTY.

This has a lot to do with the lack of long haul aircraft IB has been suffering for quite some time now. The poor fleet planning is evident.

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 2):
This is not true....the PTY flight used to be a triangle with GUA but is now dedicated

This is correct. GUA is now flown with a stop in SAL on the way back to Europe while PTY has dedicated flights since late 2010. They had 3 flights initially which were later increased to 4 and then to the current 5. IB has said they intend to have daily flights, but that can't be done right now.

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 2):
Remember IB is also right next door in SJO too so the flights do tend to cannabalize each other

True. IB flies daily between MAD and SJO and most of these services are operated with A346s.

Quoting incitatus (Reply 7):
Quoting SCL767 (Reply 4):
IB is slowly expanding into Africa, do you think IB will operate flights to the Far East in the long-term?

China and Japan.

Even though I'd really love to see this, I doubt it will happen. IAG doesnt seem interested in seeing IB opening routes to the far east. They prefer to put pax flying between Spain and those destinations in BA flights via LHR.

Quoting MFC (Reply 8):
Every purser will have an iPad with all the details of the flight in order to have everything under control and help the passengers.
Quoting LHRFlyer (Reply 9):
Quoting MFC (Reply 8):
Every purser will have an iPad with all the details of the flight in order to have everything under control and help the passengers.

A good example of an initiative that has been very successful at BA being transferred across to Iberia.


Don't know when it was introduced at BA. In Iberia's case, the "Proyecto IBPad" was introduced back in January 2011, although it had only been used by ground personnel until now.

http://megustavolar.iberia.com/2011/...gestion-de-la-atencion-al-cliente/

http://www.cincodias.com/articulo/em...icio-barajas/20110119cdscdiemp_17/

Since last month, however, the Ipad has been introduced among cabin crews, and about 640 pursers are using them thanks to the new application developed by Capgemini for Iberia. (Article in Spanish, sorry...)

http://www.es.capgemini.com/recursos...ad-movilidad-para-los-sobrecargos/

Here's an interesting video about this (again, only in Spanish)...

http://youtu.be/h9CevTrDd6Q

And here's another video showing us the "IBPad" application which has been in use by ground staff since last year (in English!!!).

http://youtu.be/PT8Omy8Doro

These small "Quick service points" seem interesting too (in English!!!).

http://youtu.be/i7q1IjOWpRo

The restructuring plan announced by IAG is expected to be known next month. This will bring very important changes for Iberia, and the biggest challenge for the airline will be the BIG job cuts that will take place. People here is already talking about massive layoffs which could affect "several thousand employees". Sounds terrible...



¡¡VIVA ESPAÑA!!
User currently offlineRafabozzolla From Brazil, joined Apr 2000, 1227 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (2 years 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 8455 times:

Quoting MFC (Reply 8):
A330 and A346 fleet will get PTV's in all classes and a new J class will be installed.
Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 11):
That's good to hear, their hard product really lets them down at the moment as it's so far behind other airlines.

At least in J, IB has one of the best hard products around. Full lie-flat, all forward facing 2-2-2, good food and wine, hard to beat. They could improve on bigger screens and surely on their cabin crew.

Quoting incitatus (Reply 14):
Also it is quite possible that IAG grows through BA London to Latin America. While IB's share might become smaller, BA's share might grow.

You're forgetting the difficult part... Where would slots come from?


User currently offlinepeanuts From Netherlands, joined Dec 2009, 1438 posts, RR: 4
Reply 18, posted (2 years 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 8420 times:

Quoting LJ (Reply 1):
I don´t understand that IB doesn´t seem to be very aggressive towards Skyteam

Also: if we combine the AF and KLM figures from that table, they are way bigger than IB to Latin America. Why is CAPA keeping the stats for AF and KL separate? Is it one company or is it not?



Question Conventional Wisdom. While not all commonly held beliefs are wrong…all should be questioned.
User currently onlineLJ From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4418 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (2 years 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 8327 times:

Quoting peanuts (Reply 18):
Also: if we combine the AF and KLM figures from that table, they are way bigger than IB to Latin America. Why is CAPA keeping the stats for AF and KL separate? Is it one company or is it not?

It's not. Two different operating licences and thwo different companies (the same reason why IB and BA are listed separately). Only thing is they have the same holding company (the airline AF/KL doesn't exist).


User currently offlineSQ773 From Spain, joined Apr 2005, 197 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (2 years 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 8159 times:

Quoting kaitak (Reply 5):

I could not agree more.

Call me pesimistic, but IB will not be a number one choice unless their mentality changes from A to Z. Just buy more new metal, just rebrand the company, just bla bla bla.... I think IAG knows that perfecly. I still wonder why BA chose IB for such a venture, its really hard to understand to me.

As far as on board service is concerned ( and from my point of view this is the weakest point in IB ), they have never search for excellence, the famous extra mile. Its not in the spanish ADN. Sorry to say, but if you want to be a leader carrier with a premium service, you have to have this touch of obsession for the quality, for the things done right. Giving the pursers iPads, doing trainings for customer service, etc that is absolutely peanuts. IB needs a complete and radical change.

Have you ever seen a purser or a flight attendatnt with a perfect use of English? Can we say that the service on board on intercon flights is proactively helpful and servant ? I know it may sound childish, but I could go on asking questions...and many of us know the answer.

Whenever you take a LAN flight , you see that the product and service is far far beyond that of IB, same goes with AV, same goes with TAM, same goes with the rest of european companies ( may be with the exception of AZ ). And not to mention BA, whose service on board is many times flawless.

Lets see what happens. But the spanish people have never search for quality, we complain but we rarely do things to improve what bother us. Its in our culture. And IB is nothing but a mirror of our culture.


User currently offlinejumpjets From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2012, 806 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (2 years 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 7944 times:

Quoting incitatus (Reply 14):
Also it is quite possible that IAG grows through BA London to Latin America. While IB's share might become smaller, BA's share might grow.

I think longer term the reverse will prove to be true. Willie Walsh has made it clear that IAG growth is expected to come more from MAD because of the constraints at LHR - though he first said that before the BD acquisition came along, so that will alter the growth dynamics.

Quoting PDPsol (Reply 15):
They need to adopt a long-haul fleet strategy quickly, the A330-300 is fine, but cannot replace the need for a longer-term solution. One can only imagine IAG has been evaluating this very carefully.

Again when the A330 acquisition was announced I believe Willie said this was just the first stage in a larger more co-ordinated BA/IB fleet renewal. I would love to think that this might mean a few A380s for IB on their denser LATAM routes and maybe BA getting some A350s instead of even more B777s. I can but wish...


User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8337 posts, RR: 7
Reply 22, posted (2 years 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 7852 times:
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IB is dealing with stronger airlines groups in Latin America with LATAM and AV/Taca but not greater flights to Spain by those airlines. Most Latin airlines fly once daily to Madrid from their own hub, LAN flies from the main city in each country they have an airline each( not yet BOG). IB still has the upper hand in some market like Caracas and Buenos Aires as the local airline is in dire straits or out of biz.

Iberia's biggest threat is from 777 and A340 flying from CDG and FRA in northern Europe, AF & LH fly directly to many of the same cities IB flies to with plans to expand.


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25154 posts, RR: 22
Reply 23, posted (2 years 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 7730 times:

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 4):
IB is slowly expanding into Africa

Where have they been expanding in Africa? The only recent change I can think of related to Africa was dropping JNB. What routes have they added?


User currently offlineTalaier From Spain, joined May 2008, 490 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (2 years 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 7714 times:

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 23):

Luanda last year, Nouakchott and Accra fro May/June this year. They also added more frequencies to Malabo and added Rabat, Oran and Argel started in it around 2010.


25 MFC : It was a pity they dropped JNB. I always heard the loads were very good, but maybe yields weren't. Do you think they would re-open the route? Maybe wi
26 Post contains images peanuts : Right. God forbid we have to combine two companies in order to find some real synergies and efficiencies...
27 PDPsol : Right, well this is precisely the point we have been making. One can only imagine the current difficult operating environment will make full integrat
28 MFC : Yes, I have, and many times and not only English, I have seen Iberia's FAs who speak French or German fluently.
29 jfk777 : Its time OneWorld do some real alliance work together, Cathay flying to Madrid would be great to connect to IB's Madrid hub. JAL's 787 would be great
30 IBERIA747 : Same here, several times, and not only English, French or German, but also Portuguese, Italian and Hebrew, among others. I guess they have increased
31 IBERIA747 : JAL have mentioned their interest in starting NRT-MAD flights as soon as they get more 787s. As much as I'd love to see it, with both carriers operat
32 jfk777 : Whatever time line the IB-BA merger took KLM was the first bride BA proposed to. The number of Quality medium sized airlines in Europe is limited. Al
33 incitatus : Arrival and departure time bands for Latin America have possibilities that do not overlap with the North Atlantic. Then there is the BMI trove that w
34 SQ773 : Well, I have never seen any, in particular any purser with fluent and perfect use of other language rather than Spanish. Sorry. IBERIA 747, reading y
35 Talaier : LHR has a night curfew that limits the amount of redeyes that can be flown. And there is already a large amount of flights to Asia and OZ leaving bet
36 IBERIA747 : No need to apologize. It's what you've seen and what you've experienced, isn't it? Just as I have told what I've seen. The last time was onboard EC-G
37 usdcaguy : It's not always about culture. AF needs someone profitable and conservative (KL? BA?) to pick up its bar tab once in a while. Also, the Spanish are n
38 LJ : IB is the market leader and is to be challenged. UX has increased their presence over time and is now able to compete with IB in some of the most imp
39 jfk777 : TAP into AF/KLM would be a great merger for AF to compete to Brazil and expansion for SkyTeam.
40 incitatus : Have you looked at what slots BD had? Take a look and then come back to tell whether it can be done. Not all of Latin America should be served with d
41 r2rho : Indeed the situation is changing, and IB cannot sit on its current comfortable position because LatAm carriers are catching up very fast and IB will
42 airbazar : True but you could say the same about Europe to Africa and where is IB's African network? You could say the same about Latin America and Asia and whe
43 mogandoCI : HKG-MAD would be hub-to-hub for the sake of it. Cathay even chose to fly to a whole slew of destinations in Europe with no onward feed instead of ope
44 ussherd : I haven't seen any direct answer to SCL767's question, other than PDPsol's suggestion that IB should consider serving second tier Brazillian cities s
45 MFC : Don't forget they also tried FOR and REC with no success. I guess that the main problem with that destinations is filling the front of the plane.
46 PDPsol : The markets in Brasil that USSHERD lists [CNF, BSB and CWB] are rather different than the FOR and REC in that they have substantial O&D in their
47 SKY1 : It's curious many people often forget Air Europa which is going to have a new, improved and more competitive long-haul fleet than Iberia. While IB is
48 Talaier : Africa is a priority as of now and actually the only new international destinations announced this year have been to African cities, operated with 31
49 IBERIA747 : New? Yes. Improved?, of course. More competitive? I'd add more efficient,...but yes, it's definitely a big step forward and very good news for Air Eu
50 RAGAZZO777 : Wouldn't it be nice if IAG ordered the 747-8 for IB ? I mean, those A346s will soon need a replacement as well...
51 IBERIA747 : That would be great, definitely. I hope the 747-8 becomes more popular, proves its efficiency and gets more orders in the near future. That would hel
52 r2rho : We can only speculate on the exact reasons, but before you say that a route "doesn't work" you have to keep in mind IB's fleet situation. Perhaps a r
53 jfk777 : TAP flies to all the regional Brzailian cities does use the A332, IB probably could make it work with one of their new A333 planes. The regional Braz
54 MFC : What do you mean? Those 787s can go to Iberia instead of BA? or operated by BA from LHR or even MAD to those Brazilian cities?
55 SKY1 : Every UX A332 whose registration begins with "L" is a second-hand A332 and there is 4 on that type with Rolls-Royce engines being 330-243 aircraft (E
56 r2rho : Both could be possible, from a purely operational point view. But BA operating from MAD would never get past IB's pilots. And rigthly so, because wit
57 jfk777 : 787 delivered from Boeing to Iberia from BA's or IAG's order. The next bunch of long haul planes for both BA & IB will have similar configuations
58 jumpjets : Maybe because BA needs the 787s just as much as IB need new planes. IBs 330s are clearly going to be years newer that any long haul aircraft BA curre
59 airbazar : Of course they are so easy to crack. That's why no one has managed to do it. Outside of GIG/GRU, TP is a defacto flag carrier of Brazil. They didn't
60 Post contains images IBERIA747 : True. I don't what was I thinking when I decided to trust what was published on Air Europa's website, given the fact that there's a pic of a B767-300
61 Talaier : If LAN and IAG enter a JV on routes to and from Europe then I would expect LAN to take over SCL-MAD and start SCL-LHR. That would be the easiest thing
62 jfk777 : Sure TAP has huge brand equity in Brazil, but its not as if other European airline are strangers. Most Euro airlines have been flying to Brazil for d
63 MFC : If that and BA starting LHR-SCL happens, then I will be truly worried about Iberia's future. I think is similar to Iberia starting MAD-HKG and CX tak
64 summa767 : The old 777 leftovers for IB was just another myth. The truth is that IAG asked for proposals for brand new new 777s as well as A330s. They went for
65 r2rho : Because right now, that is at least the impression that IAG is giving towards the outside world: BA & IB competing for TATL, with BA clearly havi
66 jfk777 : BA should fly to Santiago with a stop in Brazil. By doing this BA could add a second daily flight to Sao Paulo or add a third Brazilain city. Would a
67 jumpjets : Do you really think they might disagree? If they don't agree why would BA have pursued what was a fairly traumatic/protracted merger process. IBs hom
68 summa767 : Competing?! How do you mean? Just because BA started operating EZE non-stop? Sure, maybe there are going to be some passengers that would have travel
69 airbazar : You missed the point completely. Those carriers have been flying to GIG/GRU only while TP has been building commercial and political relationships wi
70 jfk777 : Sir, What happened from the USA to Brazil will also happen from non GIG & GRU to Europe. TAP may have it "locked up" now but Iberia, LH and AF wi
71 LipeGIG : Agreed. Specially with increased number of Spanish citizens looking for jobs in Latin America, plus events that will happen (i.e. in 10 months the Co
72 Post contains images r2rho : Correct. But theoretically you could also achieve that by scaling back IB and setting up BA at MAD Agree, and I hope that is indeed what will happen.
73 summa767 : That may be the official line, but I am pretty sure that if growth is warranted, not all A343s wil have to be replaced 1 to 1 with A333s. That will o
74 Post contains images airbazar : We'll agree to disagree then TAP's days of "owning regional Brazil" are only numbered because TAP's days as an airline are themselves numbered. I hav
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