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ANA 3-4-2 Seating On Their 777-300ERs  
User currently offlinecentrair From Japan, joined Jan 2005, 3598 posts, RR: 20
Posted (2 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 12872 times:

Hey A.Net, haven't been on in a long time.

I was looking at NH's seating arrangement on their 777-300ERs in prep for a flight I am taking in December. I saw something I have not seen in a long time: 3-4-2 seating.

I think Egypt and Swissair had 3-4-2 a few years back and before that I remember some airline in the 1980s.

What is the advantage of this layout? I would think it would create a kind of imbalance.

ANA 777-300er (212 seats) from August 29th, 2012

[Edited 2012-08-24 00:55:32]


Yes...I am not a KIX fan. Let's Japanese Aviation!
18 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinerb211-524h From Australia, joined Nov 1999, 54 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (2 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 12813 times:

The only seat that is 2 seats away from the aisle at least has a window in this case, Every other seat is either next to the aisle or 1 seat away from the aisle. I think 3-4-2 is probably the best configuration for 9 abreast.

In the other popular configuration that only has 1 seat which is 2 away from the aisle is 2-5-2. It's really claustrophobic sitting in the middle of the 5. I had to endure it once on MH from MEL to KUL and swore never again to book a flight where 2-5-2 was a possibility.

In 3-3-3 you have 2 seats per row that are 2 away from the aisle.


User currently offlineaerorobnz From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 7323 posts, RR: 13
Reply 2, posted (2 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 12802 times:

Quoting centrair (Thread starter):
What is the advantage of this layout?

A configuration to suit almost every group size without leaving too many 'middle' gaps that single travelers inevitably end up filling ...

2 Windows right/two couples middle
3 Windows Left
4 Windows right
5 Windows left 2 middle
6 2x left windows

It is something I wish more airlines would choose for passenger comfort..


User currently offlinecentrair From Japan, joined Jan 2005, 3598 posts, RR: 20
Reply 3, posted (2 years 2 months 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 12463 times:

Besides NH who is doing 2-4-3 these days and who has done it in the past?


Yes...I am not a KIX fan. Let's Japanese Aviation!
User currently offlineaerorobnz From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 7323 posts, RR: 13
Reply 4, posted (2 years 2 months 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 12398 times:

Quoting centrair (Reply 3):
Besides NH who is doing 2-4-3 these days and who has done it in the past?

KLM did on their MD11s I think.


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25838 posts, RR: 22
Reply 5, posted (2 years 2 months 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 12386 times:

Quoting centrair (Reply 3):
Besides NH who is doing 2-4-3 these days and who has done it in the past?

Most MD-11s were 3-4-2 originally, including those operated by Swissair and KLM (Swissair was 3-4-2 and KLM was 2-4-3, with the 3-abreast unit on the right side while on Swissair the 3-abreast unit was on the left side). KLM changed to 3-3-3 on their MD-11s when they installed new seats with PTVs a few years ago. Egyptair also had 3-4-2 on their 777-200s, which I believe have been retired. If memory correct, MH may also have had 3-4-2 on 772s.

Personally, I prefer 3-3-3 to 3-4-2, which all 747s had in their early days of operation until the mid-70s or so when they switched to 3-4-3 when demand increased from the economic slump of the early '70s. Early DC-10s and L-1011s were also 2-4-2 before 2-5-2 became standard on those types about the same time 747s were changing to 3-4-3.

If the option is 3-3-3 or 3-4-2, I prefer 3-3-3 as it means a higher probability of having a middle seat next to you when the flight isn't full. In any case, both are far better than 3-4-3 which many 777 operators are choosing now. I personally refuse to fly on any 10-abreast 777s as it's so cramped, and there are always many options that avoid the need to do it

And many passengers like window seats and don't care how many passengers are next to them so that's not an issue. The only benefit of 3-4-2 is for couples travelling together as they don't have to sit with a stranger.

You still can't beat the 767 and the 2-3-2 configuration, by far the best configuration of all widebodies.


User currently offlinewinGl3t From Brazil, joined Dec 2011, 57 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (2 years 2 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 9713 times:

Varig also had 3-4-2 on their MD-11

User currently offlinevaus77w From Australia, joined Aug 2011, 143 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (2 years 2 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 9110 times:

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 5):
And many passengers like window seats

Do they really? In my experience people generally prefer aisle so they can get out easily. When they do get a window seat, they usually just close the shade the whole flight (instead of looking out at the view which is what most of us avgeeks would probably do).


User currently offlineRoseflyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9681 posts, RR: 52
Reply 8, posted (2 years 2 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 9025 times:

3-4-2 makes a coordinated galley service difficult.


If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineMcoov From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 132 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (2 years 2 months 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 7449 times:

What about American MD-11 operators (AA, DL, WO)? I seriously doubt it, but did anybody choose the 3-4-2 setup?

User currently offlineanrec80 From Canada, joined Jan 2011, 160 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (2 years 2 months 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 7222 times:

Well at least it's not 3-4-3, as it is uncommon in today's 77W. I certainly would choose 3-4-2 over 3-4-3.  

User currently offlineTJCAB From Canada, joined Oct 2004, 335 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (2 years 2 months 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 5943 times:

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 5):
You still can't beat the 767 and the 2-3-2 configuration, by far the best configuration of all widebodies.

2-4-2, also offers you the one-seat-away-from-the aisle option that "we all love"


User currently offlinecv990coronado From South Africa, joined Nov 2007, 348 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (2 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 5275 times:
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How times have changed this was the original configuration on the 747. I remember many flights on TWA and Pan Am 747's in the early 70's. How much narrower is the 787 verses the 747? I would guess maybe 20 ins - for the same config? But in those days oil wasn't $110 a barrel. Oh yes and there were steak dinners in economy, an economy lounge and no TSA. I know I am lucky to have travelled in those times maybe not as good as the golden era of the late 50's early sixties. But, much better than today.


SSC-707B727 737-741234SP757/762/3/772/WA300/10/319/2/1-342/3/6-880-DAM-VC10 TRD 111 Ju52-DC8/9/10/11-YS11-748-VCV DH4B L
User currently offlineAirbusA6 From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 2022 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 4983 times:

Quoting vaus77w (Reply 7):
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 5):And many passengers like window seats
Do they really? In my experience people generally prefer aisle so they can get out easily. When they do get a window seat, they usually just close the shade the whole flight (instead of looking out at the view which is what most of us avgeeks would probably do).

More wide bodied flights tend to be long haul and over oceans or over night, so fewer people will be admiring the scenery for the whole journey than on a 2 hour narrow body flight. Indeed many people want the window seat so that they can sleep better, as you're less likely to be disturbed by other people getting up, hence the blinds being down!



it's the bus to stansted (now renamed national express a4 to ruin my username)
User currently offlineEPA001 From Netherlands, joined Sep 2006, 4844 posts, RR: 40
Reply 14, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 4905 times:
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Quoting rb211-524h (Reply 1):
I think 3-4-2 is probably the best configuration for 9 abreast.

It certainly gives the passengers the most flexible choices in seating arrangements.


User currently offlineUnited1P From United States of America, joined Aug 2009, 112 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 4898 times:

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 5):
If the option is 3-3-3 or 3-4-2, I prefer 3-3-3 as it means a higher probability of having a middle seat next to you when the flight isn't full.

Yes, but flights not filled to capacity are not as common today.

IMHO, 3-4-2 is the more passenger-friendly configuration, as it more accomodating towards different groups of passengers (as aerorobnz explained).



"You've never been lost until you've been lost at Mach 3." -Paul F. Crickmore
User currently offlinecv990coronado From South Africa, joined Nov 2007, 348 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 4890 times:
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Re my post. Sorry I misread 777 for 787.
I still think 3-4-2 is a great config. Better than 3-3-3 or 2-5-2 it's a pity more airlines don't use it.
As for 3-4-3 on a 777, not for me thank you. I would rather connect somewhere than fly more than 5 hours on a 777 in 10 abreast.



SSC-707B727 737-741234SP757/762/3/772/WA300/10/319/2/1-342/3/6-880-DAM-VC10 TRD 111 Ju52-DC8/9/10/11-YS11-748-VCV DH4B L
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25838 posts, RR: 22
Reply 17, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 4581 times:

Quoting vaus77w (Reply 7):
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 5):
And many passengers like window seats

Do they really? In my experience people generally prefer aisle so they can get out easily. When they do get a window seat, they usually just close the shade the whole flight (instead of looking out at the view which is what most of us avgeeks would probably do).

My point was that many passengers prefer window seats and, for them, getting the window seat is more important than how many other passengers are next to them in the same row.

Quoting TJCAB (Reply 11):
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 5):
You still can't beat the 767 and the 2-3-2 configuration, by far the best configuration of all widebodies.

2-4-2, also offers you the one-seat-away-from-the aisle option that "we all love"

However if you wind up in the middle seat of a 767 with 2-3-2, you have 2 options to leave your seat by only disturbing one other passenger, for example if one is sleeping and the other isn't.


User currently offlineSpacecadet From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3646 posts, RR: 12
Reply 18, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 4313 times:

I fly ANA pretty frequently and the 2 seat side fills up almost instantly - I have never actually been able to book 2 seats on that side. It's ideal for couples travel, especially on a long flight. It really kind of sucks to be traveling with your wife (or, if you're the wife, with your husband) and then have this third wheel next to you for 15 hours. (Probably sucks for the third wheel too.) It's one thing if it's an hour-long domestic flight, but on a long haul flight like that you kind of all settle in and make that area your "home", which you really can't comfortably do in a 3 seat row. So the 2 seat side of these planes is very popular.

The three seat side is mostly individual travelers and people who couldn't get the two seat side, from what I can tell. There really don't seem to be a lot of 3-person groups out there...

I have watched how the f/a's handle the service and it's interesting because while I'm sure there is a system, it's not easily discernible. It seems like it's just whichever side is "ahead", that f/a will then just serve extra people in the middle group of seats until the other side catches up. That way they stay roughly equal. But it makes it kind of unpredictable for the passengers who they should be paying attention to! I have sat in the middle group of seats and been waiting for the f/a on my side to come, only to get an elbow in the ribs from my wife telling me that the f/a on the other side has been asking me what I want to eat for the last 60 seconds...

[Edited 2012-08-25 11:44:55]


I'm tired of being a wanna-be league bowler. I wanna be a league bowler!
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