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Philippines : Airbus Order Confirmed  
User currently onlinetitus95 From France, joined Feb 2009, 96 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 27571 times:
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http://www.air-journal.fr/2012-07-25...a-flotte-aller-a-paris-553055.html

Seems as Philippines will order some dozens Airbusses , and will have a press conference about that next week.

What type (s) remains a mystery.

A320NEO ? A330 ? A350 ?

Less than one week to get the answer !

79 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinePihero From France, joined Jan 2005, 4383 posts, RR: 76
Reply 1, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 27530 times:
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Seems this is a far better and up-to-date reference : PAL mulls Airbus order


Contrail designer
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30388 posts, RR: 84
Reply 2, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 27243 times:
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I believe we can rule out the A380-800 and A350-1000 as the 777-300ERs will handle the 747-400 replacement.

Can the 245t A330-300 perform the missions PA is currently using the A340-300s on? If it can, I expect they will order it to bolster their current A330-300 fleet. If not, then the A350-900 will be the answer.

The bulk will probably be a mix of A320-200s and A320-200neos.


User currently onlinetitus95 From France, joined Feb 2009, 96 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 27044 times:
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Pretty sure there will be A330-300s in the basket , since in some other articles published in the last weeks , PR CEO said they want to replace their actual A330s by new ones.

I will say A333 and A320NEO are both given , and perhaps A359.


User currently offlineRoseflyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9457 posts, RR: 52
Reply 4, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 26874 times:

I would assume a huge order implies A320 NEOs as they have 77Ws on order, but I guess it could include A330s or A350s. Are they still blacklisted from the EU and FAA category 2? That would really slow down any international expansion.

I'd be a bit surprised to see too large of an order. PAL is not in that good of shape financially, so an order of 100 airplanes for an airline that can't operate a fleet of 40 airplanes profitably does not sound like a wise investment. Cebu has been taking market share from PAL.



If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineKL808 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 1582 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 26697 times:

PR could use 4 A380's on the LAX and SFO run. They just don't have the money to pay for those planes.

Can the new A330 make MNL-YVR year round? If yes then expect a bunch of A330-300 orders and NEO's

I wonder what happened to the statement said by PR that Boeing had this order? Did Airbus give some great incentives?

Edit:

I predict an order for 12 A330-300 to replace the current 8 A330-300 and 4A340-300, plus a bunch of NEO's to replace the current single aisle fleet. Hopefully some A321 NEO's will be included.

[Edited 2012-08-24 12:52:06]


AMS-LAX-MNL
User currently offlinerotating14 From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 607 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 26659 times:

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 4):
Are they still blacklisted from the EU and FAA category 2? That would really slow down any international expansion.

The article says that they are.


User currently offlinefiloflyer From Finland, joined Feb 2012, 51 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 25172 times:

probably no A380's for pal as its president Ramon Ang expressed that they are more interested in the 748 as the Airbus jumbo cannot be accommodated by airports in cebu, palawan and davao as they also deploy their 747's in these domestic destinations.
im thinking that they would pass on some of their single aisle jets to sister airline airphils express. PAL is hoping to relaunch flights to europe and expand its routes in usa and canada if cat1 rating is achieved next year and EU would lift its ban on PH carriers.


User currently offlineYVRLTN From Canada, joined Oct 2006, 2434 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 23540 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 2):
Can the 245t A330-300 perform the missions PA is currently using the A340-300s on?

The 77W is replacing the 343, it is at YVR anyway. The 748I has an outside shot at PR too, it has been mentioned but the 77W could quite likely replace the 744 too when the issue flying it to the USA have been resolved..

I think the bulk of this order will be 320neo with a large percentage going to AirPhil Express.



Follow me on twitter for YVR movements @vernonYVR
User currently offlineRoseflyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9457 posts, RR: 52
Reply 9, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 22334 times:

Quoting KL808 (Reply 5):
I predict an order for 12 A330-300 to replace the current 8 A330-300 and 4A340-300, plus a bunch of NEO's to replace the current single aisle fleet. Hopefully some A321 NEO's will be included.

The A330 does not have the range and they have 77ws on order that do. They just need approval to fly them ETOPS.



If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineimiakhtar From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 22109 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 2):
Can the 245t A330-300 perform the missions PA is currently using the A340-300s on?

When did Airbus announce the 245t version? A google search doesn't reveal much.


User currently offlinegarpd From UK - Scotland, joined Aug 2005, 2603 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 21768 times:

Quoting KL808 (Reply 5):
I wonder what happened to the statement said by PR that Boeing had this order? Did Airbus give some great incentives?
PR are blacklisted in the EU.
This could be part of negotiations to get off that list. By European, become friends with Europe.

I'm sure I read somewhere that they had chosen to order some Boeings.

[Edited 2012-08-24 23:25:57]


arpdesign.wordpress.com
User currently offlinebestwestern From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2000, 7062 posts, RR: 57
Reply 12, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 21629 times:

Quoting garpd (Reply 11):
PR are blacklisted in the EU.
This could be part of negotiations to get off that list. By European, become friends with Europe.

In the same way that the only PK aircraft allowed to fly to europe were 77W's?

I would think that the US market is more attractive to PAL.



The world is really getting smaller these days
User currently offlinelufthansa747 From Philippines, joined May 1999, 3201 posts, RR: 43
Reply 13, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 18677 times:

I agree with the 2P comments. Probably just to match 5J growth. Domestic flights run full, even the new DG ones, but one has to wonder at what yields... 500-peso tickets are the norm these days... PR domestic network is a shadow of its prime these days and they seem to transfer more and more to 2P. I think they should just concentrate on CEB/DVO/GES/PPS and codeshare with 2P to offer intl connections.

PR may be doing bad financially itself, but their owner sells enough beer to order a dozen widebodies. 



Air Asia Super Elite, Cebu Pacific Titanium
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30388 posts, RR: 84
Reply 14, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 17337 times:
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Quoting imiakhtar (Reply 10):
When did Airbus announce the 245t version?

Sorry. 240t. But I believe they're seeing if they can get it to 245t.


User currently offlineCityAirline From Sweden, joined Nov 2005, 685 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 17197 times:

Glad to hear about this as the airline has been quite quiet lately, and even shrunk by moving some of the domestics to APX.
But what I don't understand is how not only PR, but all Philippine carriers can continue ordering aircraft when MNL is totally full! Even though it has two runways, runway 13/31 intersects with the main 06/24 and two aircraft are not allowed simultaneous movements (if I'm not wrong). And the estimated 33 million passengers for 2012 are about what a single runway airport can handle!
Not much is happening with CRK and the only thing being done at MNL are new exitways from the runways to speed up landings, and airlines rescheduling flights to make the use of slots more effective. But that is not enough for all new aircraft that are due!

Quoting lufthansa747 (Reply 13):
PR may be doing bad financially itself, but their owner sells enough beer to order a dozen widebodies. 

Even enough for an A380 or two?  
Jokes aside, some say the plane is too big for PR, but I'd say no plane would be too big for the MNL-LAX/SFO runs. Other than those, I can agree there aren't many more destination that can fill these up.

Quoting lufthansa747 (Reply 13):
I agree with the 2P comments. Probably just to match 5J growth.

Correct. Competition on the Philippine domestic air travel market is fierce! The CAB recently reported a 13% increase during H1 this year.

Quoting lufthansa747 (Reply 13):
Domestic flights run full, even the new DG ones

You've seen numbers already? Please share...

Quoting lufthansa747 (Reply 13):
but one has to wonder at what yields

I don't know about the others, but 5J must atleast be doing something right as they always report a profit, even now!

/Alex



I don't fly to live, I live to fly...
User currently offlineEK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 4816 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 17073 times:

Quoting KL808 (Reply 5):

Considering QF cancelled a firm order of B787s this week due to financial reasons I doubt PR is in better shape...

EK413



Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
User currently offlineEPA001 From Netherlands, joined Sep 2006, 4672 posts, RR: 38
Reply 17, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 16230 times:
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Quoting Stitch (Reply 2):
If it can, I expect they will order it to bolster their current A330-300 fleet. If not, then the A350-900 will be the answer.

The bulk will probably be a mix of A320-200s and A320-200neos.

I guess this is a fair assumption of what PR might officially announce as orders next week.  .


User currently onlineDevilfish From Philippines, joined Jan 2006, 4769 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 15178 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 2):
Can the 245t A330-300 perform the missions PA is currently using the A340-300s on?

I think new routes to the ME are the main purpose of planned IGW A333s acquisition.....as well as to replace existing types to Hawaii.

PAL+aircrafts+.jpg" width="650" height="433" alt="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_kMkPsXy2RCs/TOhl16lZR9I/AAAAAAAAFmA/nKZZFrohVAM/s1600/PAL+aircrafts+.jpg" border="0"/>PAL+aircrafts+.jpg" target="_blank">http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_kMkPsXy2RC...ZZFrohVAM/s1600/PAL+aircrafts+.jpg

Quoting Stitch (Reply 2):
If it can, I expect they will order it to bolster their current A330-300 fleet.
Quoting titus95 (Reply 3):
PR CEO said they want to replace their actual A330s by new ones.

The old A333s may be taken over by 2P, or returned to lessors if not owned.

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 4):
That would really slow down any international expansion.
Quoting filoflyer (Reply 7):
PAL is hoping to relaunch flights to europe and expand its routes in usa and canada if cat1 rating is achieved next year and EU would lift its ban on PH carriers.

I assume deliveries would be scheduled for when PR have very strong indications of the bans being lifted.

Quoting KL808 (Reply 5):

I wonder what happened to the statement said by PR that Boeing had this order?

The statement was for a mix leaning more heavily towards Boeing.

Quoting YVRLTN (Reply 8):
The 748I has an outside shot at PR too, it has been mentioned but the 77W could quite likely replace the 744 too when the issue flying it to the USA have been resolved..

Perhaps when the 748i finally make specs.

Quoting garpd (Reply 11):
PR are blacklisted in the EU.
This could be part of negotiations to get off that list. By European, become friends with Europe.

A tacit admittance that the EU are using sanctions to gain airliner sales?

Quoting lufthansa747 (Reply 13):
I agree with the 2P comments. Probably just to match 5J growth.

Would be an uninspiring goal just matching your competitor's performance...especially when you're the flag-carrier.

Quoting CityAirline (Reply 15):
I don't know about the others, but 5J must at least be doing something right as they always report a profit, even now!

As the saying goes, there's a variety of ways for skinning a cat.

Quoting EK413 (Reply 16):
Considering QF cancelled a firm order of B787s this week due to financial reasons I doubt PR is in better shape...

Wouldn't it be utterly flabbergasting should PR pick up a few of those delivery slots?   

[Edited 2012-08-25 11:07:13]


"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5334 posts, RR: 15
Reply 19, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 14972 times:

Quoting garpd (Reply 11):
PR are blacklisted in the EU.
This could be part of negotiations to get off that list. By European, become friends with Europe.

Or on the other hand, if they bought American (Boeing), perhaps their US/FAA Cat II status would suddenly be upgraded to Cat I?

I kind of doubt it works that way. (I sure hope not anyway.)

bb


User currently offlineKDAYflyer From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 155 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 14955 times:

Last I heard, this order was going to Boeing.

User currently offlinePM From India, joined Feb 2005, 6847 posts, RR: 63
Reply 21, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 14926 times:

Their A330s are among the oldest flying. I could easily see them replace them with new ones.

User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30388 posts, RR: 84
Reply 22, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 14741 times:
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Quoting PM (Reply 21):
Their A330s are among the oldest flying. I could easily see them replace them with new ones.

Looks like they're all 15+ years old. I expect what really hurts is that because they're the 183rd to 204th frame built (per airfleets.net MSN entry), their MTOW is probably 188t or 212t and at maximum payload, they should be restricted to around 3000nm? A new 240t model will give them almost an extra 1000nm of range.

Their A340-313Xs would have another 1500nm beyond that, so that might need the A350-900.


User currently onlineHamlet69 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 2724 posts, RR: 58
Reply 23, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 14595 times:

Quoting titus95 (Thread starter):
Seems as Philippines will order some dozens Airbusses , and will have a press conference about that next week.

First off, I apologize, as I don't speak/read but a few words of French except a few I picked up the last time I was in Paris. But where in that article does it say they are ordering Airbus's? All I could pick up was the references to their current fleet, and a recap of their already-announced plans for a full renewal.

Don't get me wrong - I think an order for A32Xneo's and 240t A333's makes enormous sense for this airline. I just didn't see anywhere in the linked article that the order was 'in the bag.'


Regards,

Hamlet69



Honor the warriors, not the war.
User currently onlinetitus95 From France, joined Feb 2009, 96 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 14464 times:
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http://www.marketwatch.com/story/phi...ls-airbus-order-sources-2012-08-24

Hamlet69 , you are 100% right.I made a mistake by posting an old link about Philippines.

The one above , posted by Pihero is much much better appropriated !


25 EK413 : I ain't betting on it as anything is possible in the aviation industry... Who would've thought EK would've been the largest operator of the B777 and
26 prFLYER : 6. 3 already delivered, 1 due in November then 2 more next year. The last 4 were purchased by PR while the first 2 are leased from GECAS.
27 garpd : While I'm not saying it's true, I would not be surprised if such did happen.
28 columba : I guess the bulk of the order will be for A320/A320NEO and not so many widebodies if any at all.
29 Post contains images EPA001 : Considering the age of their A330's, and the earliest possible delivery date for newly ordered A330's, I would not be surprised at all if quite a num
30 lufthansa747 : No numbers, just 2 departures on Z2 from domestic, and I witnessed 4-5 DG flights board. 150+ pax on all of them. I expected low loads since the flig
31 Post contains links Devilfish : So far, the latest report on the planned order says it will mostly be A321s (with some A321neos)..... http://www.aviationweek.com/Article....e-xml/aw
32 Post contains images EPA001 : Thanks for your info. With 10 A330's (if confirmed) my expectations are more or less met.
33 Post contains links titus95 : http://www.aeroweb-fr.net/actualites...evrait-commander-jusqua-100-avions Another source says 80 narrow bodies (mostly A321 classic) , and 20 wide bod
34 Post contains links Stitch : Reuters is reporting the deal is for 10 A330-300s and 20 A320 family planes. Boeing may also not be out of the running for a widebody order due to the
35 Kaiarahi : Huh? There's no logical connection between QF and PR.
36 Post contains links Akiestar : According to the Philippine Daily Inquirer, the remaining balance of planes in the potential PR order will go to Boeing. And yes, most of the planes w
37 Asiaflyer : What need does PR actually have for the 748, with all the 77Ws on order? A330 on regional medium haul routes and 77W on long haul sounds like a good
38 Post contains links prFLYER : PAL signed an order with Airbus with a list price of $7B for the following: 34 Airbus A321 10 Airbus A321 neo 10 A330-300 http://www.rappler.com/busin
39 Asiaflyer : Also worth to notice from the article: "The 54 aircraft orders are part of the first phase of a multi-year refleeting and modernization plans, which
40 scouseflyer : along with a an order for 10 A330 ties in quite nicely with:
41 Post contains links Devilfish : Here too..... http://www.airbus.com/newsevents/new...s-major-order-for-airbus-aircraft/ http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...-orders-54-airbus-aircr
42 UALWN : It looks like garpd may be right here, at least concerning US practices: Although I hold no illusions that the EU behaves better in this respect.
43 Post contains images EPA001 : Very nice news to get confirmation on. . Congrats to Airbus and Philippine Airlines are in place. Nice to hear my guess was right as well. .
44 Post contains links and images Akiestar : PR's official press release: http://www.philippineairlines.com/news/pal_buys_aircraft.jsp Finally, new planes for the flag carrier. PR's trans-Pacific
45 Post contains links scbriml : And Airbus's: http://www.airbus.com/presscentre/pr...s-major-order-for-airbus-aircraft/
46 tonymctigue : Congrats PAL! We look forward to seeing your glorious return to Europe to show off those shiny new airplanes. If you would just order the B748i as the
47 EPA001 : Have you read the press releases?
48 na : Sorry, only the first one not covering the types. I´ll suggest deleting my first post.
49 EK413 : No there is no logical connection however I was trying to point out is PR in a better financial position than QF... EK413
50 Stitch : Now that the Airbus order has been placed, I believe they have decided against the A350 as it was not part of this order. With speculation that the ne
51 Post contains images EPA001 : I would not be surprised at all if this would turn out to be the case. And so they have divided the cake nicely between Airbus and Boeing. Good for a
52 tonymctigue : It certainly is and it would be fantastic to see another airline order the B748i. She has not fared too well thus far at securing orders but given th
53 CityAirline : Yes, but it has been in PR's plans for years to fly double daily 77Ws to both LAX and SFO, which would mean a great surge in number of seats. The pla
54 FlyingAY : What would be the reasons why 747-8i would be so much easier to get into secondary airports? Both A380 and 747-8i are ICAO Code F airplanes (also FAA
55 tonymctigue : I'm not 100% sure of the reasons why but I do tend to follow the Philippine aviation threads whenever they pop up and this is something that frequent
56 Akiestar : I know that, but double-daily 77Ws would still mean less seats should that time come. If I remember correctly, the plan was to launch year-round doub
57 EPA001 : What about the B77W? Or the B744? At MTOW, if I recall correctly, they both need more runway to take off than what an A380 requires. And at maximum l
58 imiakhtar : A common a.net fallacy. The A380 doesn't need long runways. It has better field performance than the 77W and 747. Thanks to it's oversized wing, it o
59 Post contains links and images Devilfish : As confirmed by Airbus, it's just a 54 plane order...including ten for the HGW A330. The A321neos won't start coming till 2016, with the rest going t
60 Lufthansa747 : 5J selling A319s seems interesting. I guess CRK moves to A320s then. Most of the 319 fleet have just gone thru heavy checks at SIAEC Clark.
61 Post contains links and images Akiestar : Not quite: PAL raked in nearly half a billion pesos for the second quarter. It's a dramatic improvement from the same time last year, apparently. htt
62 Post contains links and images Devilfish : That one is the tougher nut to crack. Apart from aircraft movements, the imminent increase in the number of planes on the ground at any one time woul
63 Akiestar : As a non-expert on engines, I wonder if this is a good thing, or a bad thing?
64 Post contains images Devilfish : I believe our resident engine authorities PM and Lightsaber would say it's definitely a good thing!
65 imiakhtar : I'm not sure about their engines but PALs A330s are maintained by LH technik who also happen to be a huge Rolls-Royce MRO provider. Perhaps the RR se
66 Post contains images astuteman : The apron limitations might well be an issue for the A380. I very much doubt if runway length is an issue, if the airfields you refer to also see ope
67 Tomassjc : Devilfish... Sorry, Is Terminal 4 the old domestic terminal housing Zest and Seair? Tomas SJC
68 Post contains links Devilfish : This "promises" to eliminate that and other issues as well..... http://philippineairspace.blogspot.c...phil-express-to-take-over-pal.html Quote: PAL
69 ricknroll : Also not an expert, but I believe that buying an engine is always a good thing.
70 scbriml : Another non-expert here. I've heard that, for the size of planes we're talking about, buying more than one engine per plane is considered industry be
71 Post contains links PRFlyer : Philippine Airlines (PAL), a longtime General Electric customer, will switch to Pratt & Whitney (P&W) and Rolls-Royce (R-R) engines for its re
72 PM : I have no idea if PW and RR will snag these orders (though I hope they will) but there are several precedents of A330 customers switching engine suppl
73 Post contains links Devilfish : PR is returning to Toronto..... http://philippineairspace.blogspot.com/2012/09/pal-flies-toronto.html Quote: " Flag carrier Philippine Airlines is re-
74 Post contains images EPA001 : Me too, and I would have no problem with it. . But all engine manufacturers deliver high quality products. So if an engine change is eminent, I guess
75 Post contains images SANFan : This probably should have its own thread but I wonder about the accuracy of the entire article when I read the following lines: Huh?????? This is say
76 Stitch : I believe the Trent 700 enjoys a greater than that SFC advantage compared to the GE CF6 and PW 4000. As for P&W/IAE winning the new A320 order, I
77 Post contains links Devilfish : See here..... Philippine Relaunch YYZ In November (not Official) (by CityAirline Sep 1 2012 in Civil Aviation) The byline may raise eyebrows, but it'
78 YVRSpeedBird : Yeah I agree with you on this one. No way they can change LAS service due to Cat 2. Besides, YVR is doing well for them even with the upgauge to 77W
79 SANFan : Yes, thanks. I've moved my discussions about YYZ/YVR/LAS over to the other thread. bb
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