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LH Cabin Crew On Strike  
User currently offlinePlaneInsomniac From Canada, joined Nov 2007, 647 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 20122 times:

LH cabin crew union starts strike after negotiations with management failed yesterday evening:

http://www.spiegel.de/wirtschaft/unt...hansa-starten-streik-a-852489.html


Am I cured? Slept 5 hours on last long-haul flight...
157 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinewilco737 From Greenland, joined Jun 2004, 8915 posts, RR: 76
Reply 1, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 19997 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
HEAD MODERATOR

Quoting PlaneInsomniac (Thread starter):

They do not have started yet, but it can happen every minute. According to the article: On tuesday there will be no strike, an exact date and time when it will start has not been announced yet.

wilco737
  



It it's not Boeing, I am not going.
User currently offlineStratofish From Germany, joined Sep 2001, 1050 posts, RR: 6
Reply 2, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 19615 times:

Maybe the title should be changed to "LH Cabin Staff Strike Looming" or something similar.

My guess is there will be a short strike of cabin crews (1-3 days) after which arbitration will be agreed upon because they can only strike over pay and pay is only part of the problem at hand. But that's just my personal guessing.

Also I still see LH 's management shooting themselves in their feet as what they are planing to do is extreme and the overall state of LH does not merit extreme measures.

For those who can read German, this is what LH wants:
http://www.ufo-online.com/flugbeglei...2+vor&option=com_content&Itemid=53

It's a lot more than the 5% pay increase the FAs are (rightfully I shall say) after. If it wasn't, all this would be settled very quickly as UFO "only" wants 5% and LH offers 3,6%.
Interesting days ahead.



The Metro might be the Sub(optimal)way
User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 8751 posts, RR: 29
Reply 3, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks ago) and read 19459 times:

Well, the question is, who is shooting himself.

Indeed, a Union can strike only over pay and that issue can be resolved easily, the gap between 3,6% and 5,0% isn't that big.

Unions cannot strike over company policy or strategy and the intention to partly use leased staff is strategy. LH needs to be competetive. In Berlin, it is AB they have to compete with and AFAIK all of AB cabin crew is not employed with AB but with a staff leasing company owned by AB and eventually others.

Next,Germany is a polycentric country with 2 major and one minor hub, plus what can be called focus cities, which are HAM, STR and BER. On top of that are several smaller places. All these cities have direct air services to other European hibs, some also to Middle East or other intercont hubs. I understand that the hub routes will still be served in the future by mainline and feeder (regional) aircraft, whereas the other destinations services, such as between HAM anmd STR will go to germanwings, same for most routes from places like STR HSAM etc.

Personally, i prefer that a national carrier still serves these cities. I would not favor a situation like in the UK where major cities no longer are served by the largest carrier of that country.

LH is, as well, not only a German airline, it is at least a European airline with global character. In order to compete globally, the airline must have a coist base that enables this.

At the end of the day, it is better to have these jobs somehow in the company - better the aviation concern. The alternate would be to cut services like BA has done.

Quoting Stratofish (Reply 2):
extreme and the overall state of LH does not merit extreme measures.

it is true that, compared with the 2 "other" legacy airline groups that are left in Europe, LH is the shining star, but that can change from one day to the next. It is the job of the management to prevent that.

That is exactly what they are doing right now. IMHO, LH will get a court injunction and this ,matter will go into arbritation very quickly.



I'm not fishing for compliments
User currently offlinePlaneInsomniac From Canada, joined Nov 2007, 647 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks ago) and read 19316 times:

First strike actions with likely delays / cancellations are expected from this Wednesday:

http://www.spiegel.de/reise/aktuell/...-streikt-ab-mittwoch-a-852551.html



Am I cured? Slept 5 hours on last long-haul flight...
User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 8751 posts, RR: 29
Reply 5, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks ago) and read 19264 times:

Just on the news - LH will take legal action against the strike.

Also some details from the negotiations LH offered 3,5% increase,

no redundancies - or better, job guarantees and - for the time being, no lease staff.

UFO demanded a general agreement that LH will not employ leased cabin staff, not now and not in the future.

That is illegal, the union cannot demand that and certainly not go on strike over such demands.



I'm not fishing for compliments
User currently offlineWildcatYXU From Canada, joined May 2006, 2554 posts, RR: 5
Reply 6, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 18421 times:

Is it mainline only or Cityline too?

User currently offlineAviaco From Germany, joined May 2012, 34 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 17948 times:

That is Lufthansa only. No City line or other airlines of the LH group.

User currently offlineWildcatYXU From Canada, joined May 2006, 2554 posts, RR: 5
Reply 8, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 17834 times:

Quoting Aviaco (Reply 7):
No City line or other airlines of the LH group.



From my purely egoistic point of view that's great. My youngest is returning home tomorrow and his first flight is with LH. The flight, however, is operated by CL, so he should be safe


User currently offlineAviaco From Germany, joined May 2012, 34 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 17786 times:

Your youngest is completely not affected as long as he stays on Cityline.

User currently offlineWildcatYXU From Canada, joined May 2006, 2554 posts, RR: 5
Reply 10, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 17649 times:

Quoting Aviaco (Reply 9):
Your youngest is completely not affected as long as he stays on Cityline.



He flies CL, AC and QK tomorrow, so he's indeed not affected.


User currently offlinerlwynn From Germany, joined Dec 2000, 1064 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 16863 times:

I have DUS-FRA FRA-LAX in the morning.


I can drive faster than you
User currently offlineAA757MIA From United States of America, joined May 2008, 245 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 14207 times:

I hope this gets resolved before my flights back home next Thursday the 6th!!!

User currently offlineneo777 From France, joined May 2007, 16 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 13432 times:

Can we expect that to be a long strike or It will only be a couple of days strike only?

User currently offlinePlaneInsomniac From Canada, joined Nov 2007, 647 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 13304 times:

Quoting neo777 (Reply 13):
Can we expect that to be a long strike or It will only be a couple of days strike only?

For all I know, the current state is that the strike will continue "indefinitely" until an agreement with management has been reached.

However, strike actions have not started yet. The cabin crew union now says that first actions will take place on Thursday, August 30th. Individual actions will affect airports for durations of ca. 5-6 hours and will only be announced a few hours in advance:

http://www.spiegel.de/wirtschaft/ser...reiken-ab-donnerstag-a-852654.html
http://www.spiegel.de/reise/aktuell/...-streikt-ab-mittwoch-a-852551.html

It is generally assumed that the hubs FRA and MUC will likely be affected by the strike actions.



Am I cured? Slept 5 hours on last long-haul flight...
User currently offlineairevents From Germany, joined Jan 2002, 866 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 13150 times:

To correct you, the union said "FROM" thursday, not "ON" thursday. Let´s see what happens. I could also imagine things to start at some of the smaller bases in Germany, as they would be most affected by Lufthansa´s plans to outsource shorthaul operations. But let´s see!


www.airevents.com
User currently offlineneo777 From France, joined May 2007, 16 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 13033 times:

thank you PlaneInsomniac & airevents for your answers,

Well I am flying to Sao Paulo out of CDG via MUC on sunday let see if I won't have any problems....


User currently offlineual777uk From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2005, 3356 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 12951 times:

Its a shame it has come to this, I hope they get it resolved very soon.

Will UA add any extra seats across the pond in the next 24 hours to assist?


User currently offlinenicode From France, joined May 2012, 71 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 12780 times:

I am flying to PEK via MUC from CDG on September 6th.

I really hope I won't have any problem..


User currently offlinePlaneInsomniac From Canada, joined Nov 2007, 647 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 12728 times:

Quoting neo777 (Reply 16):
Well I am flying to Sao Paulo out of CDG via MUC on sunday let see if I won't have any problems....
Quoting ual777uk (Reply 17):
I am flying to PEK via MUC from CDG on September 6th.

Well, the effects of possible strike actions are really hard to predict. There still is a decent chance that disruptions will be minor and only short term.

However, LH has stated that in the event of major strike actions, they will focus on maintaining their intercontinental flight schedule, possibly at the cost of having to cancel domestic and Intra-European flights:

http://www.spiegel.de/reise/aktuell/...-fuer-die-passagiere-a-852452.html

Thus, if anything, the CDG-MUC sections of these trips (if on LH) are more at risk than the subsequent long-haul flights.



Am I cured? Slept 5 hours on last long-haul flight...
User currently offlinewilco737 From Greenland, joined Jun 2004, 8915 posts, RR: 76
Reply 20, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 12665 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
HEAD MODERATOR

There will be still no strike on Wednesday 29th, so said the UFO.

What will happen the next days is still open. Maybe there is still hope to prevent the strike.

wilco737
  

[Edited 2012-08-29 05:16:20]


It it's not Boeing, I am not going.
User currently offlinenicode From France, joined May 2012, 71 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 12378 times:

Quoting PlaneInsomniac (Reply 19):
Thus, if anything, the CDG-MUC sections of these trips (if on LH) are more at risk than the subsequent long-haul flights.

I saw that my CDG-MUC is operated by Augsburg Airways. Is there still a risk with them ?
Should I go to the airport earlier just in case ?


User currently offlineLOWS From Austria, joined Oct 2011, 1065 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 12315 times:

Quoting nicode (Reply 21):

I saw that my CDG-MUC is operated by Augsburg Airways. Is there still a risk with them ?
Should I go to the airport earlier just in case ?

No, these are only mainline LH flight attendants on strike. LH Regional/Team Lufthansa/etc. are not impacted.


User currently offlinePlaneInsomniac From Canada, joined Nov 2007, 647 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 11807 times:

It's official now. Strike actions start Friday. The union announced that affected airports may include FRA, MUC and TXL, possibly several at once. They will make announcements 6 hours before strike actions begin at a given airport.

http://www.spiegel.de/reise/aktuell/...a-startet-am-freitag-a-852811.html

EDIT: The union has also reportedly stated that it intends to limit itself to local / short term strike actions for the time being, but is preparing for a possible nationwide strike "to begin in a few weeks' time". So they are definitely preparing for a long-term strike. (Was reported on the radio this morning.)

[Edited 2012-08-30 00:16:05]


Am I cured? Slept 5 hours on last long-haul flight...
User currently offlines5daw From Slovenia, joined May 2011, 241 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 11783 times:

It is crazy that a relatively small group of people has the power to legally(?) cause huge damage to society (even to their coworkers: pilots, ground crew etc...) demanding whatever they demand.

If they are not happy with their jobs, they should leave. It's simple.


25 CRJ900 : Why not? Are CityLine, Regional et al cabin crews already "contract staff" or are they in a secure job but on a different agreement?
26 PanHAM : They work for different companies like Cityline, Eurowings, Augsburg Airlines. They have a binding contract and cannot strike. It's all a but complica
27 Post contains links PlaneInsomniac : According to LH, the regionals will definitely no be impacted: http://www.spiegel.de/reise/aktuell/...a-startet-am-freitag-a-852811.html "Auch im Stre
28 airevents : @s5daw First of all the flight attendants are not a small group. There are between 18.000 and 19.000 of them, so they are the strongest employee group
29 Post contains images s5daw : @airevents, when a group of 20k people affects probably close to 100k passengers per day, not to mention all other stakeholders, who will be affected
30 yaris : @airevents, Ok, I agreed with you regarding fact of hard to live with 1000 EUR salary. But they have no right solve this problem like that. More over,
31 FlyingAY : On the other hand, if these 100k passengers are so bothered, maybe they should buy their tickets from another airline that treats their employees in
32 Semaex : I am quite stumbled by this announcement. I know a LH mainline F/A personally, and I cannot say that her working conditions are "less than perfect".
33 yaris : It is nice solution! But if passengers will going to buy a tickets of non-european airliners I think that european staff will say good bye to their j
34 Stratofish : Agree 100%. OTOH, I don't know of any such airline. I often have elected to fly LH instead of others because they are/were treating their employees b
35 PanHAM : Let's get some facts straight. LH is amongst the top 10 most desirable employers in Germany. The company can't be that bad if young people line up tr
36 FlyingAY : Yet there is a huge employee group ready to strike. I consider that as a failure in the management. A good management is able to keep relations with
37 yaris : Are you sure about huge group that is ready to strike? Now we can see that UFO just provokes staff to strike but we have no info about really size of
38 captaincrackers : There is no sense in criticizing strikers for being selfish or holding anybody hostage. It's how the market works in Germany and elsewhere. Striking h
39 PanHAM : There is a much more than a 50% chance that this might be a failure of the union management. LH needs, in order to stay on top of the business, get a
40 yaris : Agreed with it on 100%. Really sorry that UFO does not understand it!
41 airevents : Gents, causing some turmoil is what a strike is all about, otherwise nobody would do it. Be it bus drivers, flight attendants, factory worker, there i
42 PanHAM : well, it is both in the interest of the company and even more in the interest of it's employees that the company (regardless which one) is profitable
43 s5daw : IMHO people are willing to gain short term benefits regardless of the long term consequnces. Homo Sapiens is incredibly short-sighted, not to use stro
44 jumpjets : I agree - we are not talking about the 'wildcat' strikes that plagued, for example the UK economy 30 yrs ago, but strikes to resolve genuine grievanc
45 s5daw : Just remember that they cant get over the 1.5% raise gap. I mean common, really? If you argue the poor FAs earn 1k per month, they are bringing everyt
46 Post contains links PlaneInsomniac : Quick update: Union sources state that FRA and MUC will be hit first; TXL is still undecided: http://www.ftd.de/unternehmen/indust...en-im-visier-von-
47 FlyingAY : Exactly. And when their staff strikes, LH management have lost control on their costs. When there is an existing contract between the company and the
48 Semaex : I whole-heartedly disagree. How can you say that "if the workers are on strike that means the company is not in control". Do you know how LH works? A
49 MaverickM11 : Like whom? EK? Who treats their employees better than LH?
50 Avianca : well what I can say is that unfortunately LH made a lot of mistakes since the new CEO took over. Specially with the lower employees, like at LSG, Che
51 klemmi85 : Exactly. Not a single soul on this planet forces them to stay in a job they ain't happy with. Again, you know the game when you apply for it. They do
52 Semaex : You're entitled to your opinion, but to me they are rather radical. No offense meant. I think the right to strike is a foundation for democracy, and
53 MaverickM11 : While I understand that, how does LH compete w/ TK and EK then, for example?
54 Post contains links LH422 : The first strike wave will be for FRA only from 5:00 to 13:00 tomorrow, August 31. All LH flights to and from FRA will be affected. LH are saying they
55 aeroblogger : This strike is not about a pay gap. It is about outsourcing and the usage of contract employees. UFO by law cannot strike about overall situations -
56 aloges : "Shut up and do your job!" said the master to the galley slave, as he cracked his whip I'd reserve a seat on a train if I were you, just in case. If y
57 Avianca : well - LH is known for its high prices - hence the coststructure can absord higher salaries. Also I am not against outsourcing but I am against in a
58 yaris : Anybody knows what is going at FRA right now?
59 Post contains links stylo777 : The first bunch of flights are cancelled, mostly domestic and to European destinations with multiple daily flights. http://www.lufthansa.com/mediapool
60 PanHAM : If that is so, the strike is illegal because they can strike for higher wages only. It has to be about wages only, as you say and LH is trying to get
61 nicoeddf : Damn, very rarely someone has written a statement I can so wholeheartedly agree too! You nailed it!
62 neo777 : It seems that the strike is only follow by the Frankfurt based crew.... Munich and Berlin are operating normally so far!!!
63 Post contains links PlaneInsomniac : It seems the union managed to create quite the chaos at FRA. FRA management has confirmed that they temporarily had to refuse incoming flights from wi
64 MaverickM11 : It's the other way around; LH has a high cost structure, hence it has to command a premium, which it does. But the problem is that it will become inc
65 vv701 : Is this LH management playing hard-ball with their competitors? Doesn't LH have its own away-from-terminal parking space at its prime hub? For exampl
66 bwest : I can tell you, the lines at the service desks here in terminal 1 at Frankfurt are epic! LH staff is doing their best to help every body and is handin
67 yaris : So what we will have tommorow? Results of today hard situation are already included. Will UFO continue strike tommorow? Were there some action from LH
68 Post contains images LH422 : Greetings from the ICE Sprinter to Berlin. My flight LH 192 was cancelled about an hour before the scheduled time. First, they sent a text message sa
69 Post contains links PlaneInsomniac : For all I know, the decision was taken by Fraport management, and the news said that they were physically running out of space for the parked planes.
70 Post contains links and images bwest : Quick pic I shot of the line at the LH service desk in terminal 1 in FRA
71 Post contains links readytotaxi : From the UK http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-19433112
72 B727FA : It is never that easy. And that is why the strike is so effective: it compels management to level the playing field for the "relatively small group"
73 B727FA : Please don't fall into the trap of saying, "they should work for scraps for the privilege of working for (enter entity here)." My husband had a (very
74 YYCFlyer : I'm happy that the German government has respected the rights of the Lufthansa flight attendants and allow them to strike; unlike the Canadian governm
75 Post contains images aloges : Exactly. Every employee who condemns union activities like this strike condemns with them his own days off, his healthcare benefits and a lot more. H
76 SQ773 : I was flying yesterday FRA - BOG on LH. At one point , I asked the F/A if they would be going to strike next day. She told me no. She told me also tha
77 aeroblogger : Yes. UFO's complaint is not that their contract is not generous enough, but rather that LH is trying to replace them with outsourced contract employe
78 SQ773 : Absolutely NOT true. LH has never mention that possibility. At least not in the terms that you mention. That is to say, the old contracts will not be
79 PanHAM : The government is not involved in this. We enjoy "tariff autonomy" in Germany which means the government cannot legally intervene in industrial actio
80 yaris : Ok guys, what we have today?
81 Post contains links aloges : Yes, it is called "Direct4U". If only... then I could understand the outrage. But there is already "Aviation Power" which, IIRC, was set up initially
82 PanHAM : Well, most of nthe Berlin routes are new or integrated in 4U anyway. In order t0o compete with AB or others you have to go new ways. UFO wants LH to
83 Post contains images Semaex : Excuse me what? It's not like LH is trying to cut all the pensions, social benefits, free holidays and free leaves of their F/As. They have more than
84 Post contains links PlaneInsomniac : No new strike actions so far today (and none expected for today). Local radio reports 19 cancelled flights as an after-effect of yesterday's strike.
85 aloges : If you go the same way as Air Berlin, you have a very high risk of flying into bankruptcy. Oh, that old canard again... "If you have any demands, you
86 Post contains images aloges : Do you actually believe that SCORE and Direct4U will remain the only cost-cutting programmes/projects? OK, if that's your level, I'm out.
87 PanHAM : It's the opposite, SCORE is the way to prevent exactly that. Shall I spell it so that it is understood or is the explanation as follows OK? New ventu
88 aloges : You know what's insulting? Making this suggestion to F/As: and saying that this and sharing flats to make ends meet would make them First of all, fin
89 FlyingAY : Exactly, I seriously cannot believe that people here are suggesting that an FA with highly irregular working hours should consider getting a second j
90 aloges : Certanly, but the ones that I've come across have usually ranked the attractiveness for university graduates - and I have no doubt whatsoever that so
91 Talaier : Reality is that LH (as have a few other troubled European airlines) has kept the same cost structure it had 10 years ago when paying 300 EUR for, say,
92 B727FA : I realize that...you might note that I said words to that effect in my post. I was responding to the poster who said, "It's only 15e" and I was tryin
93 aloges : Where on earth did you get that idea? Various so-called "zero rounds", i.e. years with no raises, have reduced the real incomes of LH's employees. An
94 quiet1 : Being an American, it is interesting for me to learn about the German labor laws regarding contract negotiations. If I read these comments correctly,
95 PanHAM : Can't answer that correctly, but you have to understand that, in Germany, we have "workers participation" through a workers council and the items you
96 Semaex : Help, let's call the police on this crime against humanity. This has been the case in most industries, especially in those countries which have been
97 MD11Engineer : While it is a legal requirement, many companies, which should have one, don´t have it. Often this is the result of pressure by the management. E.g.
98 Post contains images wnflyguy : Buy the segestion of the great 3 LH staff personal and one awasome captin that refused leave us behind because of weight restiction they got all my tr
99 Post contains links Tobias2702 : It has just been announced by the "UFO" union that strikes will resume on Tuesday Sep 4, though no information about exact time and place yet. http://
100 PPVRA : Flight attending should not be seen as a "career" but rather as a stepping stone. Expecting pay raises simply because you've been there a long time i
101 sbworcs : When people are talking about take of pay of 1000 Euro per month is it that LH is trying to reduce salaries to this or this is what is being paid? If
102 quiet1 : Not sure why you single out Flight Attendants? Would not the same apply to grocery store cashiers, sanitation workers, government clerks, airline cus
103 PPVRA : Because this website is about airlines and this thread is about flight attendants. And I didn't say anything about low wages, my concern is that the
104 B727FA : PPVRA, what do you do for a living? Shall we agree that you shouldn't have the option to do your job as a career? Why are people so quick to tell me t
105 PPVRA : I specifically said I have no problem with people choosing this as a career. Don't try to make this about what you deserve. It's not personal. And I
106 airevents : I find it very condescending how people here judge what jobs deserve future pay rises and a career and what jobs don´t. People, there are many thousa
107 PPVRA : I think this is the third time I ma saying this: nobody is judging your decision to stay. Once you top off, sure. But don't conveniently leave out th
108 Post contains links reifel : According to UFO the following airports will be affected tomorrow 04SEP: -Berlin TXL from 05:00 til 13:00 -Frankfurt from 06:00 til 14:00 All annoucne
109 L1011Lover : Maybe the above statement - which you made - is the reason you have to repeat and defend yourself. This was a very ignorant I'd want to say even disc
110 L1011Lover : add to it: -Munich from 13:00 til 24:00 Just got the info! So this will be MASSIVE today!
111 n729pa : I'm due to fly to MUC on Saturday 8th, ironically on my first ever Lufthansa flight. Is the strike likely to be ongoing, or just random days? Basicall
112 PanHAM : I checked the basic law and could not find that. "Job security" is not a basic right but na condition that depends on the customers choice. Only if t
113 vv701 : Basically I think you will have to wait and see. It appears that German law - unlike British law which requires the Union to give the Employer (and h
114 futurestar68 : I'm due to fly VIE to LHR via HAM next Monday. If there's still strike actions, would it be possible to just get rebooked onto a direct flight VIE-LHR
115 Post contains images wilco737 : FOr such questions it would be easiest to contact LH directly. Rebooking in advance should be possible, but I don't know if possible for another carr
116 CaptainCrackers : Section 9 (3), sentence 1 of the Basic Law for the Federal Republic of Germany: The right to form associations to safeguard and improve working and e
117 Semaex : Read this statement again and you will find that there is no discrepency in what PanHAM and L1011Lover have stated. According to this section of the
118 PPVRA : Because a "career" is usually (though not necessarily, I will give you that) associated with a profession with an advancement path. In flight attendi
119 airevents : I find it very interesting, how a negative comparison (compare yourself to Easyjet, compare yourself to people working as nurses in a hospital) is giv
120 PanHAM : I find it interesting that the union made up of people whose daily bread it is to travel and see other parts of the world does not face reality. No on
121 Semaex : And if you translate 3,5% on a net salary of 1800€, which is a reasonable figure, then that by simple math accounts to 63€, which on a work incre
122 CaptainCrackers : PanHAM and L1011 have totally opposite positions. What is important is that those who have stated that organized labour action is a fundamendal right
123 PanHAM : One can also put it this way - the basic right to organize and eventually strike is undisputed. The basic right even gives us much more, in ³ 1 and t
124 quiet1 : Which differs from being a pilot, dispatcher, mechanic or CSR ... how, exactly?
125 PanHAM : Job qualification. Simple answer. A pilot has to undergo a training, we all know that here. A mechanic as well, takes 3 or 3 1/2 years, ask Jan, MD11
126 Post contains images PPVRA : The idea that LH has a different business model therefore it does not compete with EasyJet is ludicrous. Sure, beig a full service airline I can see
127 connies4ever : I believe this is incorrect. Similar to AC's labour woes, the unions want a say in LH's proposed LCC. As has been stated, LH has a high cost structur
128 PanHAM : Take it for granted that each and every subsidiary company LH owns has a workers council. So that is taken care of, the represents who are voted to th
129 L1011Lover : You shouldn't comment on my posts if you haven't fully understood them! I meant that FIGHTING (in that case by striking) for: job security... etc. is
130 PPVRA : Again, this is not personal - it's not about putting a value on you, but putting a value on whatever service you are providing. None of what you said
131 reifel : On german news they just stated that Friday there will be a 24 hour strike at all LH airports, unless LH returns to negotiations. This leads me to thi
132 L1011Lover : And so what??? There are plenty of PhD's working in the airplane cabins... more than you would ever expect. They work there at FA pay and no one has
133 L1011Lover : FA's constantly put their previous job or educational qualifications and knowledge to use! Especially during medical emergencies! But also on an ever
134 PanHAM : Job security is really not a basic right. Of course you can fight for job security but the state will not and cannot force an employer to give you a j
135 PPVRA : Funny, I don't remember even criticizing the strike. And I specifically said many times already that my issue has nothing to do with pay level. I nev
136 L1011Lover : It's not ridiculous but a fact! You obviously have no idea what FA do in their daily routine and what they have to put up with! Why would college or
137 L1011Lover : No in fact LH management are the ones to blame for preventing about 40.000 people to exercise their right of travelling!!! That's how it is! The FA's
138 L1011Lover : It was actually other people on this forum who started bothering with under or overqualification! I'm only getting the facts straight! Now that I hav
139 nicode : And what about thursday ? I am flying with them in two days...
140 HansaRostock : well, at least for 2.000.000 in Germany having a job and not paying for pensions btw (no, I'm not among them) indeed it is but the final decision is
141 PPVRA : Your statement that FAs are constantly using their nursing and other qualifications, say, like engineering degrees, finance degrees, PhDs, etc. in th
142 canadianpylon : Look at this objectively. LH is a company whose raison d'etre is to build shareholder value. It is not to provide the best living standards for all o
143 L1011Lover : I am a registered nurse and have few years of college as an English and Art teacher and I am a FA and I constantly use my language skills, my teachin
144 L1011Lover : That's by the way the most IGNORANT and ARROGANT thing I've read on here in a long time! So I'm certainly done with wasting my time with you! If that
145 Rwy04LGA : Further more, I am shocked and disappointed how unfiltered you believe and repeat the polemic lies by unions!
146 L1011Lover : I don't believe and repeat the polemic lies by unions! I state what I truly believe in and what I experience MYSELF! Because I AM right in the center
147 PPVRA : Great, language skills. Everybody needs that to be almost anything and you certainly don't need a degree to be bilingual. As for you being a nurse, y
148 SQ773 : Can anyone remind me how BA dealed with the F/A strikes and how it ended, apart from hiring again the people fired and letting those on strike fly non
149 L1011Lover : You don't need it, but a lot of people HAVE it! So what's your point??? And in Germany you certainly don't need it in order to be anything! So??? I n
150 klmcedric : PanHam, I find your level of arrogance unpreceded. L1011lover is absolutely calm, do you think because he writes something in capital letters that he
151 PanHAM : Last time I checked the FA were on strike,npot the lH management I am a LH shareholder since more than 20 years. I have seen more years without divid
152 Post contains images aloges : So "Unions bad, me angry!" is no longer a mainstream opinion?
153 PanHAM : Cannot answer that, I am not Tarzan. But if you rephrase your question I shall be glad to give you an answer in a complete sentence.
154 klmcedric : Maybe he was trying to cut it short to make sure you have time to read it, seeing that you're such a busy man and all.
155 Burkhard : There is some truth in this. Lufthansa was extremeley successfull as long as it was lead by engineers (Weber and Mayrhuber). He was replaced by a Dr.
156 L1011Lover : This is so typical: You only quote my first sentence. This is exactly how LH management currently plays the game and tries to fool the media and the p
157 wilco737 : This thread currently ended up in a name calling and bashing between users and not particularly on topic anymore. Thread will be archived now.
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