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LAN And AV-TA To Intensify Competition At LIM  
User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8805 posts, RR: 5
Posted (2 years 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 5009 times:
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Competition is set to increase dramatically between AviancaTaca and LATAM at LIM in the coming months. AviancaTaca plans to increase domestic flights from LIM while LATAM plans to increase frequencies on domestic and international routes from its hub at LIM. LATAM is planning an "international push" from LIM very soon. LATAM's subsidiary LAN Perú currently dominates the Peruvian domestic market with a market-share of 62 percent. LATAM currently dominates the Peruvian international market with a market-share of 50 percent.
Peru's market grows rapidly as TACA builds domestic share and LAN continues international push

48 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offline2travel2know2 From Panama, joined Apr 2010, 2608 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (2 years 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 5024 times:

IMHO sooner or later, that intensified competition @ LIM will most likely have an effect in both LATAM and AV/TA LIM operations.


I'm not on CM's payroll.
User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8805 posts, RR: 5
Reply 2, posted (2 years 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 4983 times:
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Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 1):
IMHO sooner or later, that intensified competition @ LIM will most likely have an effect in both LATAM and AV/TA LIM operations.

Yes, LIM needs to expand the airport rapidly to cope with the increase in traffic. Unlike AV-TA, LAN and TAM are increasing capacity on routes via LIM using widebody a/c and LAN already uses widebody a/c on certain regional routes. Also, LATAM expects that certain Peruvian carrier(s) will collapse in the future.


User currently offlineRAGAZZO777 From Uruguay, joined Jul 2010, 585 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (2 years 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 4922 times:

Quoting SCL767 (Thread starter):
Competition is set to increase dramatically between AviancaTaca and LATAM at LIM in the coming months.

This doesn't come as a surprise. Both LAN and TACA have been fighting tooth and nail at LIM for a number of years now, but clearly LAN has the upper hand.


.

Quoting SCL767 (Thread starter):
LATAM is planning an "international push" from LIM very soon.

Hopefully that means new long-haul destinations from LIM. Rumour has it that LAN Perú will begin operating the 787 from next year so we'll have to wait and see.


.

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 2):
LIM needs to expand the airport rapidly to cope with the increase in traffic.

   The current terminal is definitely not large enough for the operations it handles today.



JESÚS, TE AMO !!
User currently offline777jaah From Colombia, joined Jan 2006, 1403 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (2 years 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 4927 times:

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 2):
Unlike AV-TA, LAN and TAM are increasing capacity on routes via LIM

Won't AV transfer some 330s to TA and will be based in LIM??



Next flights: AV BOG-ADZ-BOG, AV-UA BOG-IAD-ORD-IAD-BOG, BOG-FLL-BOG, LA BOG-MIA-BOG J
User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8805 posts, RR: 5
Reply 5, posted (2 years 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 4874 times:
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Quoting RAGAZZO777 (Reply 3):
This doesn't come as a surprise. Both LAN and TACA have been fighting tooth and nail at LIM for a number of years now, but clearly LAN has the upper hand.

LAN has been steadily growing its operations at LIM for over a decade and has launched routes to new destinations in North America and the Caribbean over the past few years. For example, LIM-CUN, LIM-HAV, LIM-MEX, LIM-PUJ, LIM-SFO, etc. LAN will soon operate the LIM-MIA route 17x weekly (B763), LIM-LAX increases to 13x weekly, LIM-JFK increases to 11x weekly, the LIM-SCL route operates 8x daily and will increase to 9x daily, LIM-LPB-VVI will get a second daily frequency, TAM will launch GIG-LIM, etc. LAN has also been building up its domestic network for over a decade and will increase frequency on domestic routes, i.e. LIM-AQP, LIM-CUZ, LIM-IQT, LIM-JUL, LIM-PCL, LIM-PIU, etc.


User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8341 posts, RR: 7
Reply 6, posted (2 years 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 4841 times:
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Quoting RAGAZZO777 (Reply 3):
This doesn't come as a surprise. Both LAN and TACA have been fighting tooth and nail at LIM for a number of years now, but clearly LAN has the upper hand.

Taca is at a disadvantage since it only flies A320's, no nonstop to LAX, JFK, MAD and bare able to get to Miami.


User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8805 posts, RR: 5
Reply 7, posted (2 years 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 4800 times:
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Quoting jfk777 (Reply 6):
Taca is at a disadvantage since it only flies A320's, no nonstop to LAX, JFK, MAD and bare able to get to Miami.

Similar to their operations in Ecuador...The LIM-MIA route has experienced robust growth over the past couple of years. LAN used to operate the LIM-MIA route 9x weekly just two years ago and it now operates 2x daily and will soon increase to 17x weekly utilizing the B763. Thus, LA/AA will soon offer 31 weekly non-stop flights on the LIM-MIA route.

[Edited 2012-08-28 10:47:14]

User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8341 posts, RR: 7
Reply 8, posted (2 years 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 4764 times:
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Quoting SCL767 (Reply 7):
Similar to their operations in Ecuador...The LIM-MIA route has experienced robust growth over the past couple of years. LAN used to operate the LIM-MIA route 9x weekly just two years ago and it now operates 2x daily and will soon increase to 17x weekly utilizing the B763. Thus, LA/AA will soon offer 31 weekly non-stop flights on the LIM-MIA route

LAN is now in a position to turn Lima into GRU west, Sao Paulo on South Americas west coast. The 787 will open up Sydney and AKL, more North America and more Europe beyond Spain. May be a BA 777 is in LIM's future.


User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8805 posts, RR: 5
Reply 9, posted (2 years 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 4734 times:
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Quoting jfk777 (Reply 8):
The 787 will open up Sydney and AKL,

This is a long-term plan; perhaps in the next 4 years.

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 8):
more North America and more Europe beyond Spain. May be a BA 777 is in LIM's future.

LAN is currently focused on the U.S. and Mexican markets and will increase flights into these markets and open new destinations using the B-767-316ERs. Also, routes such as LIM-CUN and LIM-PUJ will both increase to twice daily services respectively. LAN has also evaluated launching LIM-LHR with the B-787...


User currently offline2travel2know2 From Panama, joined Apr 2010, 2608 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (2 years 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 4736 times:

Quoting 777jaah (Reply 4):
Won't AV transfer some 330s to TA and will be based in LIM??

I thought that 2 A330 were going to start LIM-MIA-SAL-LAX-SAL-MIA-LIM rotations as soon as AV-TA officially became one.

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 8):
LAN is now in a position to turn Lima into GRU west, Sao Paulo on South Americas west coast.

Would that mean that for LATAM SCL will be to LIM what EZE is to GRU?



I'm not on CM's payroll.
User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8805 posts, RR: 5
Reply 11, posted (2 years 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 4703 times:
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Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 10):
Would that mean that for LATAM SCL will be to LIM what EZE is to GRU?

SCL is also getting more frequencies starting next month. The SCL-MIA route increases to 2x daily, SCL-PUJ-MIA and SCL-CUN-MIA will increase to twice weekly. In January and February, LAN will operate the SCL-MIA route up to 3x daily, SCL-LAX 3x weekly, the SCL-IPC route will operate up to 2x daily, the SCL-MCO route will operate up to twice weekly, the SCL-PUJ-MIA route will operate 3x weekly, the SCL-CUN-MIA route will operate up to 5x weekly! Connections to BUE, COR, GRU, MDZ, MVD and domestic destinations in Chile will be available. LAN will also launch daily flights to its newest domestic destination, MHC.


User currently offlinePDPsol From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 1115 posts, RR: 5
Reply 12, posted (2 years 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 4625 times:

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 10):
I thought that 2 A330 were going to start LIM-MIA-SAL-LAX-SAL-MIA-LIM rotations as soon as AV-TA officially became one.
Quoting 777jaah (Reply 4):
Won't AV transfer some 330s to TA and will be based in LIM??

Also, of course, there is tremendous potential for AV-TA to cooperate more closely with its partner, UA, just as CM does in PTY. UA currently operates IAH-LIM, as well as EWR-LIM and adding IAD-LIM could give UA better access to important markets it does not currently serve. AV-TA should do well at LIM.

LA has accomplished a lot with LIM and there is no reason why growth should not continue with LATAM and its resources. Important alliance partners, including AA, IB, BA, and perhaps even CX, must surely view the LIM market with great interest. LA should also do well at LIM.

LIM has already made important progress in preparing for the long-term, with a new center-field mega-terminal and second runway in development. LIM was privatized over a decade ago and its owner-consortium, controlled by FRA, is very interested in creating a regional hub, with extensive network capabilities throughout the continent.


User currently offlineRCS763AV From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4395 posts, RR: 12
Reply 13, posted (2 years 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 4358 times:

There is indeed talk of TA launching IQT and PCL from LIM, plus enhancing the existing destionations' frequency. LAN's international offensive will be massive too, but i guess it will be felt more when the 787s start rolling in at a faster pace. IAD, YYZ, BCN, LHR are all potential new destinations from LIM for LAN. Returning to BSB and CTG must also be in consideration. Also, the AVTA group do have a plan to base A330s in LIM, increasing capacity, i'm sure more short haul routes will be coming too. The unsuccessful LIM-BSB service was changed to BOG and has been doing well.

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 10):

I thought that 2 A330 were going to start LIM-MIA-SAL-LAX-SAL-MIA-LIM rotations as soon as AV-TA officially became one.

A330s in SAL? I don't know.

Rumour was that the would be start flying LIM-MIA-LIM-EZE-LIM and eventually LIM-MAD.



Les escribo desde el frío de mi verde altiplano.
User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8805 posts, RR: 5
Reply 14, posted (2 years 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 4320 times:
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Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 13):
LAN's international offensive will be massive too, but i guess it will be felt more when the 787s start rolling in at a faster pace.

LAN will transfer 3 new B-767-316ERs over to LAN Perú starting next month. LATAM already dominates the Peruvian international market and LAN is simply increasing frequencies on routes with high demand. For example, LAN will initially add up to 14 new weekly frequencies on routes to North America with the B-767-316ERs and will increase capacity on certain routes. Certain routes such as LIM-GRU will operate solely with widebody a/c. Routes such as LIM-EZE, LIM-GYE, LIM-CCS, etc. already utilize widebody a/c. LAN will launch a second daily service to LPB/VVI, increase frequency on the LIM-UIO and LIM-SCL routes, and plans to increase frequencies on the LIM-CUN and LIM-PUJ routes later on. TAM will launch the GIG-LIM route in October. LAN Perú will continue to increase frequency on domestic routes as mentioned in reply 5. The first batch of B-787s will be used primarily on regional routes for crew familiarization purposes and then will be deployed on long-haul routes to Europe, i.e. SCL-MAD-FRA and may be utilized to open new routes to Europe via the GRU hub next year.

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 13):
Returning to BSB and CTG must also be in consideration.

CTG? Um nope, LATAM is interested in launching new routes, i.e. LIM-ASU, LIM-CWB, etc. and may resume services to MVD.


User currently offlineairevents From Germany, joined Jan 2002, 879 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (2 years 23 hours ago) and read 4190 times:

I hope we finally get a direct flight to Germany! Have the rumours I heard about TACA A330 flights from Lima intensified? They would now probably be launched under the Avianca brand, wouldn´t they? Would be great to see an A330 in TACA colours...


www.airevents.com
User currently offlineRWA380 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3195 posts, RR: 5
Reply 16, posted (2 years 22 hours ago) and read 4156 times:

Quoting RAGAZZO777 (Reply 3):
This doesn't come as a surprise. Both LAN and TACA have been fighting tooth and nail at LIM for a number of years now, but clearly LAN has the upper hand.

Even if LIM expands their terminal to accommodate more arrivals and departures, is there room for both carriers to exist?
I too agree that LAN has the upper hand indeed (I still remember looking at old BN timetables and seeing how they used LIM as a big connecting point, with services up to LAX and SFO on DC-8's, and of course the ops all throughout S.A.)
Anyway, guess my question is will there be two only until one beats the other up for good, or can these two co-exist growing LIM?

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 8):
more North America and more Europe beyond Spain. May be a BA 777 is in LIM's future
Quoting SCL767 (Reply 9):
LAN has also evaluated launching LIM-LHR with the B-787...

So which would you rather fly? the LA 787 or the BA 777? Is there room for 2 carriers, or is this an example of whomever starts the route first gets the upper hand? I think BA would get a fair number of European origin traffic, while LA would most likely capture the S.A. origin traffic, IMHO.



AA-AC-AQ-AS-BN-BD-CO-CS-DL-EA-EZ-HA-HP-KL-KN-MP-MW-NK-NW-OO-OZ-PA-PS-QX-RC-RH-RW-SA-TG-TW-UA-US-VS-WA-WC-WN
User currently offlinesumma767 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 2559 posts, RR: 6
Reply 17, posted (2 years 22 hours ago) and read 4146 times:

Quoting airevents (Reply 15):
I hope we finally get a direct flight to Germany! Have the rumours I heard about TACA A330 flights from Lima intensified? They would now probably be launched under the Avianca brand, wouldn´t they? Would be great to see an A330 in TACA colours...

I understand that the first A330 should be operated by TACA, based in LIM in November. Flights to EZE have been mentioned given the high demand. It could be that the flight continues to BOG given that AV cannot increase its own non-stop flights beyond the ridiculous 4 weekly frequency- Hence I am not sure about TA serving MIA at the first stage. Maybe when they have a second A330,w hich won't be at least until April next year..
It will take ven longer for long haul flights, and as for FRA, I guess it might not be until 787s are available - unless it is served with a stop in MAD.
AV-TA have 6 further A330s on order, and 15 787s. So we should definitely see a lot more haul, but not just yet.


User currently offline2travel2know2 From Panama, joined Apr 2010, 2608 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (2 years 18 hours ago) and read 4049 times:

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 13):
A330s in SAL? I don't know.

Have you seen SAL-LAX O/D traffic figures lately?

Quote:
Rumour was that the would be start flying LIM-MIA-LIM-EZE-LIM

Then perhaps a better use for the A330 would be EZE-LIM-MIA-SAL-LAX-SAL-MIA-LIM-EZE?



I'm not on CM's payroll.
User currently offlinePPVRA From Brazil, joined Nov 2004, 8958 posts, RR: 40
Reply 19, posted (2 years 17 hours ago) and read 4012 times:

Quoting PDPsol (Reply 12):
Also, of course, there is tremendous potential for AV-TA to cooperate more closely with its partner, UA, just as CM does in PTY. UA currently operates IAH-LIM, as well as EWR-LIM and adding IAD-LIM could give UA better access to important markets it does not currently serve. AV-TA should do well at LIM.

Makes me wonder about an AV-TACA-UA tie up LATAM style. . .



"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
User currently offlineRCS763AV From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4395 posts, RR: 12
Reply 20, posted (2 years 16 hours ago) and read 3975 times:

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 14):
CTG? Um nope, LATAM is interested in launching new routes, i.e. LIM-ASU, LIM-CWB, etc. and may resume services to MVD.

Well there is a tangible market from the southern cone to Cartagena, and they're basically letting CM at PTY and AV BOG have it to themselves. It will be years until LAN is able to offer comparable connectivity between BOG and the rest of the continent as opposed to LIM, and it may not even happen. AVTA could venture into BOG-LIM too, they just launched CLO-LIM and MDE-LIM non-stop flights.

What about BSB? And since they're returning to MVD, theyir interest is not only launching new routes.

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 14):
LAN will transfer 3 new B-767-316ERs over to LAN Perú starting next month.

That's great. But I imagine that one more and more 787s start coming in the expansion at LIM will be even bigger. I'm sure LATAM will start serving many markets from Brazil to Lima also.

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 19):
Makes me wonder about an AV-TACA-UA tie up LATAM style. . .

Whoa! Going a little fast there...  
Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 18):
Have you seen SAL-LAX O/D traffic figures lately?

They're probably really high, but is it an efficient use of a whole widebody for just one route which can be still served with NBs at greater frequency? Also, an A330 might be a bit of an overkill for the SAL-MIA route. Truth is, the widebodies will be focused in BOG, LIM and Brazil. I think that we will see widebodies in the central american hubs at one point in the future, but in very limited numbers, because of the characteristics of those markets.

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 18):
Then perhaps a better use for the A330 would be EZE-LIM-MIA-SAL-LAX-SAL-MIA-LIM-EZE?

No aircraft would possibly be able to complete that itinerary in a 24 hour period. And dedicating two whole A330s to that is certainly a waste of resources when those routes can be more easily distributed between the narrowbodies based at each of the hubs.

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 16):
Even if LIM expands their terminal to accommodate more arrivals and departures, is there room for both carriers to exist?

You raise a good point there. Certainly both companies think they can coexist in both LIM and BOG right now, and to a lesser extent Brazil (even though AV Brazil is more of a boutique product as of now). Certainly that is good for competition, because on many routes the continent will soon have it's two strong carriers plus always another brand or a low cost, or both. Time will tell if they decide to retrench to their home markets in the future (TA has found a lot of challenges expanding internationally at LIM, and LAN has been loosing bucketloads of money on their colombian subsidiary, loosing domestic marketshare to Viva and Avianca), so it hasn't been easy to coexist, but if they both profitability in the end, it may work.

[Edited 2012-08-29 08:39:57]


Les escribo desde el frío de mi verde altiplano.
User currently offlineRAGAZZO777 From Uruguay, joined Jul 2010, 585 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (1 year 12 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 3716 times:

Quoting airevents (Reply 15):
I hope we finally get a direct flight to Germany!

Same here ! Personally, I hope that Lufthansa starts non-stop flights between Germany and Peru in due course.  



.

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 16):
Even if LIM expands their terminal to accommodate more arrivals and departures, is there room for both carriers to exist?
I too agree that LAN has the upper hand indeed (I still remember looking at old BN timetables and seeing how they used LIM as a big connecting point, with services up to LAX and SFO on DC-8's, and of course the ops all throughout S.A.)
Anyway, guess my question is will there be two only until one beats the other up for good, or can these two co-exist growing LIM?

That's a very interesting question. Well, LAN and TACA have co-existed at LIM for over 12 years and the Peruvian economy is doing very well (currently the fastest growing in South America) so I don't see why they couldn't continue to co-exist at the same airport. Besides, TACA serves some destinations that LAN does not and viceversa. Of course, this is commercial aviation we're talking about so anything can change in a mere instant.



.

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 16):
Quoting SCL767 (Reply 9):
LAN has also evaluated launching LIM-LHR with the B-787...

So which would you rather fly? the LA 787 or the BA 777? Is there room for 2 carriers, or is this an example of whomever starts the route first gets the upper hand? I think BA would get a fair number of European origin traffic, while LA would most likely capture the S.A. origin traffic, IMHO.

There's definitely no room for 2 carries on the Lima-London route. If LAN Perú ever launches it, then the chances of seeing BA planes at LIM would reduce to zero.

In other LIM-related news, it's been leaked that Korean Air has finally applied with the Peruvian DGAC for permission to commence passenger service between Seoul-Incheon and Lima via a North American point.
Can't wait to see Korean Air's airliners at LIM !



JESÚS, TE AMO !!
User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8805 posts, RR: 5
Reply 22, posted (1 year 12 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 3697 times:
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Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 20):
Well there is a tangible market from the southern cone to Cartagena, and they're basically letting CM at PTY and AV BOG have it to themselves.

LAN does offer connections to CTG via BOG from LIM and SCL. LAN Colombia will eventually become a oneworld affiliate carrier and could offer more connections via BOG from MAD and MIA with AA and IB.

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 20):
It will be years until LAN is able to offer comparable connectivity between BOG and the rest of the continent as opposed to LIM, and it may not even happen. AVTA could venture into BOG-LIM too, they just launched CLO-LIM and MDE-LIM non-stop flights.

I think you meant AV could venture into LIM-CTG? Also, isn't BOG expanding? Or is it only expanding for AV?

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 20):
What about BSB? And since they're returning to MVD, theyir interest is not only launching new routes.

LATAM could resume services to BSB from LIM if LATAM wants too. Unlike Colombia, Perú has OS with Brazil. When is LAN Perú resuming LIM-MVD? In regards to MVD, LATAM is currently focused on filling the void left by PU in the Southern Cone and will soon add 3 new daily flights into MVD. Thus, LATAM will operate 7 daily flights into MVD; whereas AV-TA will offer only one daily flight into MVD.

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 20):

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 14):
LAN will transfer 3 new B-767-316ERs over to LAN Perú starting next month.

That's great. But I imagine that one more and more 787s start coming in the expansion at LIM will be even bigger. I'm sure LATAM will start serving many markets from Brazil to Lima also.

LAN will increase flexibility with its widebody fleet when the 5 new B-767-316ERs and 3 B-787s join the fleet this year. Should LAN deploy the B-787 on the SCL-LIM-LAX route before the SCL-MAD-FRA route; it will free up two additional B-767-316ERs for further expansion. According to the NS 2013 season, LAN plans on deploying the A343s on the SCL-LIM-LAX route daily; thus freeing up two B-767-316ERs.


User currently offlineRCS763AV From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4395 posts, RR: 12
Reply 23, posted (1 year 12 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 3572 times:

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 22):
LAN does offer connections to CTG via BOG from LIM and SCL. LAN Colombia will eventually become a oneworld affiliate carrier and could offer more connections via BOG from MAD and MIA with AA and IB.

So basically we're talking about five (you forgot GRU) destinations that people will be able to connect to from CTG via BOG on oneworld. CM offers over 50 via PTY and AV over 30 counting their Star partners, at much higher frequency may I add.

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 22):
I think you meant AV could venture into LIM-CTG? Also, isn't BOG expanding? Or is it only expanding for AV?

That's what I meant. And yes BOG is expanding, for every operator, so watch the tone, I'm not trying to start a pride fight here. But the truth is it would take years of resources for LAN to reach Avianca's size in Bogotá, even if there was no competition. Or where would they get a fleet of 70 planes all of a sudden to replace Avianca's capacity?

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 22):
LATAM could resume services to BSB from LIM if LATAM wants too. Unlike Colombia, Perú has OS with Brazil.

Ok, why does it always have to come to the freaking open skies argument? I'm just asking if LAN would return to BSB. Geez.

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 22):
Thus, LATAM will operate 7 daily flights into MVD; whereas AV-TA will offer only one daily flight into MVD.

Unlike LATAM, AviancaTaca does not have any southern cone hub, so it's only natural that they have a much smaller presence in Montevideo, just like LATAM doesn't serve any central american city, which might start soon from BOG, I guess by the time LAN Colombia stops bleeding money.

I'm sure LATAM will start LIM-MVD in the near future.



Les escribo desde el frío de mi verde altiplano.
User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8805 posts, RR: 5
Reply 24, posted (1 year 12 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 3547 times:
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Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 23):

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 22):
LAN does offer connections to CTG via BOG from LIM and SCL. LAN Colombia will eventually become a oneworld affiliate carrier and could offer more connections via BOG from MAD and MIA with AA and IB.

So basically we're talking about five (you forgot GRU) destinations that people will be able to connect to from CTG via BOG on oneworld. CM offers over 50 via PTY and AV over 30 counting their Star partners, at much higher frequency may I add.

That's great for AV-TA at BOG and CM at PTY. However at LIM, AV-TA will never accomplish what LAN has accomplished over the years. At GRU, AV-TA will never accomplish what TAM has accomplished over the years...

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 23):
That's what I meant. And yes BOG is expanding, for every operator, so watch the tone, I'm not trying to start a pride fight here. But the truth is it would take years of resources for LAN to reach Avianca's size in Bogotá, even if there was no competition. Or where would they get a fleet of 70 planes all of a sudden to replace Avianca's capacity?

LAN doesn't want to reach AV's size at BOG. They simply want to build a new hub offering new connections for their customers.

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 23):

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 22):
LATAM could resume services to BSB from LIM if LATAM wants too. Unlike Colombia, Perú has OS with Brazil.

Ok, why does it always have to come to the freaking open skies argument? I'm just asking if LAN would return to BSB. Geez.

LIM has OS with many countries and is not slot controlled; which means AV-TA can compete with LATAM on an equal playing field. It will be interesting to see how AV-TA deals with LAN playing on an equal playing field...


25 777jaah : In part I agree with you. I don't really know your real age, but in business, never say never...... Maybe they just want something like this:
26 A388 : Quoting SCL767 (Reply 24): However at LIM, AV-TA will never accomplish what LAN has accomplished over the years. At GRU, AV-TA will never accomplish w
27 RCS763AV : No one is discussing that, and I frankly don't see why it has to come into the table. I'm sure that's the goal of every one of the smaller companies
28 757MDE : It may be a de facto monopoly, but the truth is Chile is easily the most open market in South America. Foreign airlines can even do domestic flights
29 jfk777 : Avianca / Taca is not the only strong airline in Northern South America, Copa is strong in Colombia & Panama too. Whatever happens to Copa is wha
30 RCS763AV : Aires and Satena were never competition to Alianza Summa.. Aerorepública never had over 20% of the domestic market share during those times, not to
31 757MDE : Yes I know how it went, but they were not a monopoly either by any definition. And the period when they were the biggest behemoth in Colombian skies
32 RWA380 : What North American point, and will KE have fifth freedom rights for this flight, I'd hope so. KE has lots of options.
33 jfk777 : IF Lan and Copa merged it would preserve competititon in Central America and create 2 large airlines in Colombia, Ecuador and Peru. What regulator is
34 RCS763AV : Indeed. Same has happened with Avianca after the protectionism that existed until the late 90s, but competition has flourished. But they are very dif
35 PPVRA : Maybe a little fast, but it would give UA a strong presence in the region plus a nice boost for Avianca. Especially Avianca Brasil. It would be a cha
36 2travel2know2 : PTY needs an early morning PTY-LIM and late evening LIM-PTY, talking about LATAM and AV/TA intensifying competition @ LIM, who would do it 1st? And as
37 RAGAZZO777 : According to the Air Service Agreement between South Korea and Peru, South Korean carriers shall enjoy full 5th Freedom rights on the following route
38 OB1504 : Which ones? I wasn't aware that there were any left which posed a competitive threat to LATAM. Don't LAN and LAN Peru share their 767 fleets? Will th
39 2travel2know2 : SkyTeam KE flying to OneWolrd and StarAlliance hotspot LIM? What's the reasoning behind that? Any KE route via a U.S. airport would make the flight u
40 SJOtoLIR : Rumor has it that the 330 would be utilized later for LIM-MIA, LIM-EZE and they're studying LIM-MAD. All these segments are well attended by LP at th
41 jfk777 : It seems Lima will be a real competitive hub bet Star alliance Avianca and OW Lan and AA. Will three airlines from Lima to Madrid be onw too many ? S
42 SCL767 : Hint, one domestic carrier was forced to briefly suspend operations last year due to certain "irregularities". LAN Perú's entire fleet is composed o
43 RAGAZZO777 : Probably the same reason why Air Europa, Air France and KLM fly to Lima despite its status as a Star Alliance and Oneworld hub. As a matter or fact,
44 2travel2know2 : LIM-Europe O/D is one thing, LIM-Far East another, specially if lots of the traffic to originate in LIM most likely would need US transit visas to fl
45 RAGAZZO777 : Of course they're different markets, I was just pointing out the fact that LIM is an attractive destination for SkyTeam carriers as you had stated th
46 SCL767 : The majority of pax traveling between Perú and Asia do transit via the U.S. For example, KE currently code-shares with LAN on the SCL-LIM-LAX route.
47 RWA380 : All of these markets have competition except Seattle, yet Seattle is not a very big O/D market, I'd expect KE to go via LAX but there is some competi
48 A388 : How do you know for certain that all these countries will support such a merger? Privately owned or not, regulators look at the total coverage of any
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