airbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 7448 posts, RR: 11 Reply 13, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 12924 times:
Quoting FlyingHollander (Reply 1): As long as AR has split operations between its two Buenos Aires airports I don't see anything changing in the near future.
The benefits of a single hub are not as big as in other parts of the World due to Buenos Aires being so far south. You can count on a single hand the number of significant cities south of Buenos Aires.
Quoting Lufthansa (Reply 6): What about Australia.... also a continent and also basically dominated by oneworld?
Dometically maybe but certainly not international to/from Australia. And Australia is not a continent. The continent is called Oceania, of which Australia is a country but this is besides the point
Lufthansa From Christmas Island, joined May 1999, 3152 posts, RR: 10 Reply 14, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 12894 times:
Quoting questions (Reply 12): The URL didn't work. Is their site down or did they already go out of business?
its AR.... thats perfectly normal. Honestly I love Argentina to death, its my favorite latin country and I nearly married a brazilian...and Sao Paulo wasn't exactly my cup of tea so Buenos Aries was almost home. It's an absolutely amazing country.. but AR doesn't do a good enough job of serving it. fleet aside... even with older aircraft its poorly managed. And it has soooooooo much potential!
Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 4): I can understand linking AR in to an alliance for future value but how long will that take? And to subject your pax to them now? Oy.
If it ever happens. AR is loosing 2 million dollars a day!
Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 8): But in South America, LANTAM's dominance is far larger than AV-TA or the rumored AR+Gol
True. But Star has a large presence in the continent too with UA, LH, AC, CM and AVTA, and so do Skyteam from europe with AF/KL and UX, and DL to a certain extent from the US. Oneworld's dominance is not the same as some years ago.
Quoting airbazar (Reply 13): The benefits of a single hub are not as big as in other parts of the World due to Buenos Aires being so far south. You can count on a single hand the number of significant cities south of Buenos Aires.
The benefits of a single hub would grant Skyteam carriers access to the argentinian domestic market which is substantial with the ease of using the same airport. Other that that, you're pointing Buenos Aires EZE's main weakness as a hub, it only serves as a transfer point to SCL and MVD, citing large-ish markets. AR's input into skyteam, other than maybe feeding UX's MAD and AZ's FCO hubs with the local passengers form EZE, are minimal. It's kind of like NZ in Star, save NZ serves the very large trans-tasman market, and has a succesful longhaul operation that is actually profitable and feeds Star hubs, plus a solid product.
Anyway, congrats to AR on achieving this milestone, but frankly this puts Skyteam´s standards to doubt. Let's hope it's a sign for a brighter future for the argentinian carrier, as they do serve a magnificent country. The thing is, it is very uncertain.
Gonzalo From Chile, joined Aug 2005, 1839 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 12530 times:
Quoting airbazar (Reply 13): You can count on a single hand the number of significant cities south of Buenos Aires.
Not only a single hand, you don't even need a finger... there is not a single city with a significant population ( more than 500.000 ) South of B.A. Biggest cities under that parameter are Neuquen ( 235.000 ) and Bahia Blanca ( 300.000 ).
Certainly no game-changers.
Quoting Lufthansa (Reply 3): They're hopeless how the hell did they actually get in?
Quoting rwsea (Reply 18): The list of marquee, well-established, quality airlines over at SkyTeam continues to grow...
Apologize rwsea if yours wasn't in jest, but I am fairly certain that it was.
While all three alliances have had bankruptcies, for those who are counting outright liquidations:
Star Alliance has had: Ansett (now dead), Spainair (now dead), and Adria (could be next to go)
oneworld has had: Malev (now dead), Mexicana (still listed but now dead), airberlin (doing horribly), and was almost saddled with Kingfisher
SkyTeam: not one carrier has liquidated
I know it is an a.net pastime to poke fun at members that SkyTeam picks up. But SkyTeam has never gone after the five star carriers, but rather stuck with large regional carriers. Now, I would be the first to admit that pick-ups like AR and RO leave me scratching my head occasionally, but I have to think that SkyTeam has a plan and believes that AR can right its ship and be a valuable South American team member.
I look forward to AR being in, and now SkyTeam must beg, borrow, and steal to get Gol to join!
Since 2010: DL, KL, AF, WX, IG, FR , FL, U2, AK, BA, OK, UX, VS, VN, K6
AR385 From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 5472 posts, RR: 26 Reply 24, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 12048 times:
Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 21): But I see they are trying to change all that by having AR in their alliance.
Quoting delimit (Reply 22): AR is owned by the Argentine Government. Short of revolution it is not going anywhere.
Exactly. People just don´t get it. The current government in Argentina, and Cristina may very well manage to change the Constitution for a second re-election, will NEVER, EVER, let AR go bankrupt, or disappear. It is what they consider a symbol of their "Model", whatever that means, and it is just too important in those terms to let it fail. AR will be around for many years and is a valuable addition to Skyteam simply by the access it provides to the interior of the country.
Wether it is a quality carrier, well, that is another question entirely, especially when you have to be in San Rafael, for example, and AR is the only one who flies there from AEP.
[Edited 2012-08-29 13:36:36]
25 Gonzalo: Totally right. But she's human. Can't last forever. And things are never so sure in politics, specially in Argentina. She can be re-re-elected for th
26 TeamInTheSky: While I will withhold comment on the Cristina Elisabet Fernández de Kirchner Regime, I do think that SkyTeam would have made sure to mitigate the ri
27 mogandoCI: haha are you sure ... they were even willing to let the country's debts default, let alone an airline but Cristina wasn't the president back in 2001,
28 EddieDude: Hopefully that happens. Argentina deserves a quality flag carrier. Gol has been very clear about staying independent and not favoring a particular al
29 TeamInTheSky: The million dollar question, would Gol bring back Varig for Long-Haul? While merely speculation, it would be nice to see an order of 787's for Gol to
30 SCL767: The name of the airline group is LATAM, not LANTAM! Interesting analysis from CAPA about AR's entry into SkyTeam: Aerolineas Argentinas tries to over
31 rafabullara: All I can say is: I'm really sorry for the passengers of others Skyteam members connecting with AR!
32 RCS763AV: No. Not at all. I just forgot to mention them because I was somehow thinking on the non latin american members of the alliances. I apologize. They do
33 SJOtoLIR: AR was the only feasible candidate for SkyTeam grouping in deep South America. We're not clear yet whether G3 is really aiming towards SkyTeam or the
34 LatinPlane: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTQmZRZd-9w Congrats to Aerolineas.
35 ordjoe: AR seems like a perfect match for the skyteam, will fit in perfectly. I am sure plenty in the states will line up to spend their DL sky pesos to get t
36 MaverickM11: Even if there was only one B.A. airport, the beyond BA demand is next to nothing, especially since Cristina has made a major effort to centralize pow
37 peanuts: Alright. So AR is a basket case. Let's have a chuckle over it and than move on. You have to have a little vision in order to succeed long term, in any
38 EddieDude: Well, people in the rest of Argentina need to fly too, and even if a portion (small or big) of those would rather fly LAN Argentina or any other carr
39 SCL767: Outside of Buenos Aires, there is demand for international flights from destinations such as COR, MDZ and ROS. That's about it.
40 AR385: You are forgetting the high yield tourist destinations such as Bariloche, El Calafate, Ushuaia, and such. These are not your average spring breakers,
41 SCL767: These are seasonal destinations that could sustain seasonal regional flights. Certain carriers used to operate and wanted to operate seasonal flights
42 KLM685: Best post ever. Exactly my thoughts. I just can't imagine arriving in J class with, let's say, Air France to EZE and jumping to AR for a domestic/int
43 Gonzalo: The problem is, that portion or subportion you mention is shrinking dramatically in the last years. Add to that the ( beyond ridiculous ) restricitio
44 MaverickM11: Of course--Skyteam gets a point of sale advantage in Argentina. It's worth *something*; I'm just not sure it'll offset its drawbacks for many years t
45 SCL767: What about demand to other destinations with-in Latin America and to Spain? I don't think that LA recently increased frequencies on the SCL-COR and S
46 C010T3: Yes, TAM, for example, was driven out GRU-BRC.
47 SCL767: LAN was driven out of BRC and ROS. LAN added EZE-BRC for international connections and will soon add EZE-USH daily for international connections.
48 RCS763AV: Although not that much a seasonal destination, but with a big tourism component, TA was denied permits to keep flying to MDZ. Exactly my thoughts. I
49 SCL767: LATAM has major operations at AEP/EZE. Outside of BUE, LAN serves both COR and MDZ: LIM-COR daily SCL-COR 2x daily SCL-MDZ 3x daily
50 2travel2know2: I'd dare to add SLA and TUC to that list. IMHO that's a questionable figure. It may not be 3 times as much, but 200 (passengers per day?) seem too lo