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OAG Changes 8/31/2012: AA/AM/NK/UA/US  
User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7036 posts, RR: 13
Posted (1 year 11 months 18 hours ago) and read 10886 times:

INSTRUCTIONS

WHAT IS THIS REPORT?
This compares what is for sale THIS WEEK for the stated period versus what was for sale LAST WEEK...It does NOT compare to last year or now (UNLESS OTHERWISE STATED).

HOW DO I READ IT?
XXX-YYY DEC 4>5 JAN 4>5 ; means that the listed airline changed the frequency between the two airports to add from 4 to 5 roundtrips in December and January. No other months were changed. I only list one direction, although it is possible the listed change is only one way. It is too difficult to average the two directions. I assume the change is roundtrip and that is most often the case.

HOW ARE THE DAILY DEPARTURES CALCULATED?
This report uses total operations for the month listed, divided over the days in the month.

WHAT ARE THE FRACTIONAL FLIGHTS?
Non-daily operations create fractional weekly service. In most cases flights are rounded, but in the case of international service or markets with low frequency, fractions are shown. If a flight operated 5 days out of 7, it would show 0.8 flights.

WHY ARE THERE WEIRD FREQUENCIES AT Macedonian Airlines (Greece)">IN FAR AWAY MONTHS FOR LCCs?
Most airlines publish schedules 11 months in advance. This report covers the next 9 months. That avoids seeing schedules as they are loaded. Several LCCs load their schedules less than 9 months into the future. Their schedules may also end mid-month. If B6 loads their schedule until Jan15, all flights in Janaury will show half frequency because of the way the report is created.

WHY IS A WHOLE AIRLINE'S SCHEDULE SHOWN AS CHANGING FOR A FUTURE MONTH?
Similarly to the previous question, some airlines load their schedule from nothing inside the 9 month window of this report. When their schedule is extended it will show as new service because there was no previous schedule to compare to. In some instances I will show a more valid comparison against another period.

THOSE FLIGHTS AREN'T DELTA, THEY ARE PINNACLE
This report only shows the marketing code. It is too complicated to show all the operators.

THE FREQUENCIES MAY HAVE CHANGED AS YOU SHOW, BUT THE SEATS DIDNT CHANGE BECAUSE OF EQUIPMENT SWAPS
That is a natural weakness of a frequency based report, but it provides something to discuss below.

THE FREQUENCY DOESN'T SHOW A CHANGE, E.G. 4>4
This happens as a result of rounding. There is a change in service that is large enough to be listed, but through rounding it does not appear.

I marked some of the ones I thought were interesting with an "*".


4M MIA-EZE SEP 1.0>1.8 OCT 1.0>2 NOV 1.0>2 DEC 1.0>2 JAN 1.0>2 FEB 1.0>2 MAR 1.0>2 APR 1.0>2

9K SJU-NEV DEC 1.0>1.3 JAN 1.0>1.5 FEB 1.0>1.6 MAR 1.0>1.6 APR 1.0>1.5
9K SJU-STX DEC 6>4 JAN 8>3 FEB 8>3 MAR 8>3 APR 8>3
9K SJU-VQS DEC 9>8 JAN 9>8 FEB 9>8 MAR 9>8 APR 9>8
9K STT-STX JAN 5>6 FEB 5>6 MAR 5>6 APR 5>6
9K STX-SJU DEC 6>4 JAN 8>3 FEB 8>3 MAR 8>3 APR 8>3
9K STX-VQS DEC 0.5>1.0 JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0 APR 0>1.0
9K VQS-SJU DEC 8>9 JAN 8>9 FEB 8>9 MAR 8>9 APR 8>9

*AA MIA-RTB DEC 0>0.2 JAN 0>0.1 FEB 0>0.1 MAR 0>0.2 APR 0>0.1

AC PDX-YYC SEP 0.8>0.6

AF MIA-PAP NOV 0.7>0.5

AM BRO-MTY OCT 0.4>0 DEC 0.4>0.3
AM DEN-MEX DEC 0.5>0.7
AM LAX-BJX DEC 0.5>0.4
AM LAX-GDL DEC 1.9>1.0 JAN 2>1.8
AM MCO-MEX DEC 1.6>3
AM MIA-CUN NOV 0.3>0 DEC 0.1>0.3
AM SAT-MTY OCT 0.8>1.0 DEC 0.7>1.0
AM SMF-GDL NOV 0.6>0.7

AS LAX-MMH NOV 1.0>0.6

AT JFK-CMN APR 0>1.0

BA SFO-LHR DEC 1.7>1.5

BB SJU-EIS DEC 0>1.2 JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0 APR 0>1.0
BB SJU-STT JAN 1.7>0 FEB 1.7>0 MAR 1.6>0 APR 1.8>0
BB SJU-STX JAN 1.1>0 FEB 1.1>0 MAR 1.2>0 APR 1.1>0
BB SJU-VQS JAN 0.3>0 FEB 0.3>0 MAR 0.3>0 APR 0.3>0
BB SPB-SSB SEP 12>13 OCT 6>14 NOV 6>14 DEC 6>13 JAN 6>0 FEB 6>0 MAR 6>0 APR 6>0
BB STT-SJU JAN 0.9>0 FEB 0.9>0 MAR 0.8>0 APR 0.9>0
BB STT-STX OCT 7>6 JAN 7>0 FEB 7>0 MAR 7>0 APR 7>0
BB STX-SJU SEP 3>1.6 OCT 3>1.6 NOV 3>1.6 DEC 3>1.6 JAN 3>0 FEB 3>0 MAR 3>0 APR 3>0
BB STX-VQS SEP 0.2>0.3 OCT 0.1>0.3 NOV 0.1>0.3 DEC 0.2>0.3 JAN 0.1>0 FEB 0.1>0 MAR 0.2>0 APR 0.1>0
BB VQS-SJU SEP 0.2>0.3 OCT 0.1>0.3 NOV 0.1>0.3 DEC 0.2>0.3 JAN 0.1>0 FEB 0.1>0 MAR 0.2>0 APR 0.1>0

DL ATL-GUA DEC 1.5>1.0 JAN 2>1.0 FEB 2>1.0 MAR 2>1.0 APR 2>1.0
DL ATL-MAN NOV 0.8>0.7 JAN 0.9>0.7 FEB 0.9>0.7
*DL DTW-PEK NOV 0.6>1.0 DEC 0.6>1.0 JAN 0.5>1.0 FEB 0.6>1.0 MAR 0.6>1.0 APR 0.6>1.0
DL JFK-SDQ OCT 2>1.7
DL JFK-STI OCT 2>1.7

F9 MCO-TYS NOV 0.3>0.2

KE ROR-ICN APR 0>0.3

LA MHC-PMC NOV 0>0.2
LA MIA-LIM SEP 2>3 OCT 2>3 NOV 3>4 DEC 3>4 JAN 3>4 FEB 3>4 MAR 3>4 APR 3>4
LA SFO-LIM SEP 0.4>1.2 OCT 0.5>1.5 NOV 0.6>1.6 DEC 0.6>1.6 JAN 0.5>1.5 FEB 0.6>1.6 MAR 0.6>1.6 APR 0.6>1.6

MW HNM-OGG OCT 0>2 NOV 0>2 DEC 0>2 JAN 0>2 FEB 0>2 MAR 0>2 APR 0>2
MW OGG-HNM OCT 0>2 NOV 0>2 DEC 0>2 JAN 0>2 FEB 0>2 MAR 0>2 APR 0>2

Attention: we will now be rearranging the deck chairs. Amazing what they are doing in FLL.
*NK AZA-DEN OCT 0>0.9 NOV 0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0 JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0 APR 0>1.0
Didn't they go in with 2 or 3 RTs?
*NK AZA-LAS OCT 1.0>0.1 NOV 1.0>0 DEC 1.0>0 JAN 1.0>0 FEB 1.0>0 MAR 1.0>0 APR 1.0>0
*NK DFW-TLC OCT 1.0>0.6 NOV 1.0>0.6 DEC 1.0>0.8
*NK DTW-ORD OCT 1.0>0.1 NOV 1.0>0 DEC 1.0>0 JAN 1.0>0 FEB 1.0>0 MAR 1.0>0 APR 1.0>0
NK FLL-CTG OCT 0.7>0.6
**NK FLL-KIN OCT 0.5>0.1 NOV 0.4>0 DEC 0.4>0 JAN 0.4>0 FEB 0.4>0 MAR 0.5>0 APR 0.5>0.2
NK FLL-MBJ NOV 0.6>0.7 DEC 0.6>0.7 FEB 0.6>0.7 MAR 0.5>0.7
**NK FLL-NAS OCT 0.8>0.1 NOV 1.0>0 DEC 1.0>0 JAN 1.0>0 FEB 1.0>0 MAR 1.0>0 APR 1.0>0.2
*NK IAH-LAS OCT 0>0.9 NOV 0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0 JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0 APR 0>1.0
*NK IAH-ORD OCT 0>0.9 NOV 0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0 JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0 APR 0>1.0
*NK LAS-LAX NOV 3>2 DEC 3>2 JAN 3>2 FEB 3>2 MAR 3>2 APR 3>2
*NK LAS-PDX NOV 2>1.2 DEC 2>1.0 JAN 2>1.0 FEB 2>1.0 MAR 2>1.0 APR 2>1.0
*NK PDX-SAN NOV 0>0.8 DEC 0>1.0 JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0 APR 0>1.0

OZ EWR-SEA NOV 0.8>0.1 DEC 0.5>0.1
OZ SPN-KIX DEC 0>0.5 JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0

S3 MIA-CCS OCT 3>4

SV JFK-JED NOV 0.6>0.7 DEC 0.6>0.7 JAN 0.6>0.7 FEB 0.6>0.7 MAR 0.5>0.7

TN LAX-CDG APR 0.6>0.7
TN LAX-PPT APR 1.0>1.4

UA CLE-RSW JAN 1.2>2.0
UA DEN-ABQ JAN 6>5
UA DEN-BIS JAN 4>5
UA DEN-CPR JAN 4>5
UA DEN-DAL JAN 1.4>0.9
UA DEN-ELP JAN 3>4
UA DEN-HSV JAN 1.7>0.9
UA DEN-MEM JAN 1.7>0.9
UA DEN-MEX DEC 0.4>0.5
UA DEN-MSN JAN 3>4
*UA DEN-OGG JAN 0.2>1.0 FEB 0.6>1.0
UA DEN-OKC JAN 5>4
UA DEN-PHL JAN 1.9>1.1
UA DEN-PSP JAN 4>3
UA DEN-RAP JAN 6>5
UA EWR-PTY DEC 1.1>1.3
UA EWR-PUJ DEC 1.2>1.3
UA EWR-YUL DEC 6>5
UA FLL-BIM SEP 1.0>0.8
UA FLL-ELH SEP 1.0>0.8
UA FLL-GGT SEP 1.0>0.8
UA FLL-GHB SEP 0>0.5
UA FLL-TCB SEP 1.0>0.6
UA IAD-MAD OCT 0.9>0.7
Wow, something positive in Houston :p
*UA IAH-TGZ SEP 0>0.3 OCT 0>0.3 NOV 0>0.3 DEC 0>0.3 JAN 0>0.3 FEB 0>0.3 MAR 0>0.3 APR 0>0.3
UA LAX-DEN JAN 8>7
UA LAX-YLW JAN 1.0>1.1 FEB 1.0>1.1 MAR 1.0>1.2
UA SEA-ANC DEC 3>2
UA SFO-DEN JAN 9>10

US CLT-AUA JAN 1.2>1.1 FEB 1.3>1.1 MAR 1.5>1.4 APR 1.4>1.2
US CLT-BZE FEB 0.4>0.2 MAR 0.6>0.3 APR 0.6>0.2
US CLT-CUN JAN 4>3
US CLT-CZM FEB 0.4>0.3 MAR 0.8>0.5 APR 0.7>0.4
US CLT-FCO APR 1.0>0
US CLT-NAS JAN 2>1.9 FEB 3>2
US CLT-PUJ MAR 3>1.9

Net up two slot pairs. I think US definitely got the F9 slots.
US DCA-ISP NOV 2.0>3 DEC 2>3 JAN 2>3 FEB 2>3 MAR 2>3 APR 2>3
US DCA-MCO OCT 6>7 NOV 6>7 DEC 6>7 JAN 6>7 FEB 6>7 MAR 6>7 APR 6>7
US DCA-NAS APR 1.1>1.0
US DCA-TLH NOV 0.9>1.9 DEC 1.0>2 JAN 1.0>2 FEB 1.0>2 MAR 1.0>2 APR 1.0>2
US DCA-YOW OCT 3>1.8 NOV 3>1.6 DEC 3>2 JAN 3>2 FEB 3>2 MAR 3>2 APR 3>2
US PHL-BDA FEB 0.9>0.7 MAR 1.0>0.9
US PHL-GCM APR 0.7>0.4
US PHL-NAS JAN 1.0>0.9 APR 1.3>1.1
US PHL-PLS APR 0.7>0.5
US PHL-VCE APR 1.0>0
US PHX-CUN JAN 1.3>1.1 FEB 1.3>1.1
*US PHX-GYM OCT 0.9>0.6 NOV 1.0>0 DEC 1.0>0 JAN 1.0>0 FEB 1.0>0 MAR 1.0>0 APR 1.0>0
US PHX-MZT FEB 1.8>1.4 MAR 3>1.6

VS MCO-LGW NOV 1.9>1.8 DEC 1.9>1.8 JAN 1.3>1.2 FEB 1.9>1.6 MAR 1.9>1.7
VS MCO-MAN JAN 1.4>1.2 FEB 1.3>1.2

WP ATL-MEI OCT 0>1.9 NOV 0>1.9 DEC 0>1.8 JAN 0>1.9 FEB 0>1.9 MAR 0>1.8 APR 0>1.9
WP ATL-MSL OCT 0>1.7 NOV 0>1.7 DEC 0>1.7 JAN 0>1.7 FEB 0>1.7 MAR 0>1.7 APR 0>1.7
WP ATL-PIB OCT 0>1.7 NOV 0>1.7 DEC 0>1.7 JAN 0>1.7 FEB 0>1.7 MAR 0>1.7 APR 0>1.7
WP ATL-TUP OCT 0>3 NOV 0>3 DEC 0>3 JAN 0>3 FEB 0>3 MAR 0>3 APR 0>3
WP GLH-TUP OCT 0>3 NOV 0>3 DEC 0>3 JAN 0>3 FEB 0>3 MAR 0>3 APR 0>3

XL MIA-UIO SEP 1.0>1.8 OCT 1.0>2 NOV 1.0>2 DEC 1.0>2 JAN 1.0>2 FEB 1.0>2 MAR 1.0>2 APR 1.0>2

YV HNL-LIH NOV 8>9 DEC 8>9 MAR 8>9
YV LIH-HNL NOV 8>9 DEC 8>9 MAR 8>9
YV LIH-OGG SEP 1.4>1.0 OCT 1.4>1.0 NOV 1.4>1.0 DEC 1.5>1.0 JAN 1.4>1.0 FEB 1.4>1.0 MAR 1.5>1.0 APR 1.4>1.0
YV OGG-LIH SEP 1.4>1.0 OCT 1.4>1.0 NOV 1.4>1.0 DEC 1.5>1.0 JAN 1.4>1.0 FEB 1.4>1.0 MAR 1.5>1.0 APR 1.4>1.0

66 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22724 posts, RR: 20
Reply 1, posted (1 year 11 months 18 hours ago) and read 10840 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
LA MHC-PMC NOV 0>0.2

This is almost certainly an error. PMC is Puerto Montt. MHC appears to be somewhere in Australia.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
WP ATL-MSL OCT 0>1.7 NOV 0>1.7 DEC 0>1.7 JAN 0>1.7 FEB 0>1.7 MAR 0>1.7 APR 0>1.7
WP ATL-PIB OCT 0>1.7 NOV 0>1.7 DEC 0>1.7 JAN 0>1.7 FEB 0>1.7 MAR 0>1.7 APR 0>1.7
WP ATL-TUP OCT 0>3 NOV 0>3 DEC 0>3 JAN 0>3 FEB 0>3 MAR 0>3 APR 0>3
WP GLH-TUP OCT 0>3 NOV 0>3 DEC 0>3 JAN 0>3 FEB 0>3 MAR 0>3 APR 0>3

Interesting. MSL is currently tagged from TUP (on 9E ex-MEM; I think XJ did it the same way). Now, MSL gets its own service and GLH gets tagged from TUP. It may be more geography than anything else (ATL-TUP-MSL is a backtrack; MEM-TUP-GLH would have been a backtrack). Is DL going to sell tickets GLH-TUP?



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlinepetteri From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 277 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (1 year 11 months 18 hours ago) and read 10798 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
Attention: we will now be rearranging the deck chairs. Amazing what they are doing in FLL.


**NK FLL-KIN OCT 0.5>0.1 NOV 0.4>0 DEC 0.4>0 JAN 0.4>0 FEB 0.4>0 MAR 0.5>0 APR 0.5>0.2
NK FLL-MBJ NOV 0.6>0.7 DEC 0.6>0.7 FEB 0.6>0.7 MAR 0.5>0.7
**NK FLL-NAS OCT 0.8>0.1 NOV 1.0>0 DEC 1.0>0 JAN 1.0>0 FEB 1.0>0 MAR 1.0>0 APR 1.0>0.2

Hmm, a couple of ideas here. Jetblue's enrance into the KIN market may now really be affecting them. Also the FLL Terminal Four renovation due to the south runway construction may be forcing them to relinquish gate space on at least a temporary basis. Although I'm not sure exactly what the schedule is for the construction is.

[Edited 2012-08-29 11:09:02]


The above comments are my personal comments and in no way should be viewed as the views,policy or statements of JetBlue
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7204 posts, RR: 17
Reply 3, posted (1 year 11 months 18 hours ago) and read 10653 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*NK AZA-LAS OCT 1.0>0.1 NOV 1.0>0 DEC 1.0>0 JAN 1.0>0 FEB 1.0>0 MAR 1.0>0 APR 1.0>0

This is surprising. Maybe this is the clarification to the confusion of what's going down at AZA- the plane will O at AZA and D in DEN instead of LAS? Hmmmm

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*NK AZA-DEN OCT 0>0.9 NOV 0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0 JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0 APR 0>1.0
Didn't they go in with 2 or 3 RTs?

The PHX thread said that it's just 1 daily, and it's in the morning.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*US PHX-GYM OCT 0.9>0.6 NOV 1.0>0 DEC 1.0>0 JAN 1.0>0 FEB 1.0>0 MAR 1.0>0 APR 1.0>0

Covered previously, this apparently is because of the fact that no one wants to go here. Small airport, limited opportunities, etc etc drug gangs etc etc  


As always, thanks for the updates E!



One of the FB admins for PHX Spotters. "Zach the Expat!"
User currently offlineAtrude777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5692 posts, RR: 52
Reply 4, posted (1 year 11 months 18 hours ago) and read 10576 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):

Didn't they go in with 2 or 3 RTs?
*NK AZA-LAS OCT 1.0>0.1 NOV 1.0>0 DEC 1.0>0 JAN 1.0>0 FEB 1.0>0 MAR 1.0>0 APR 1.0>0

Spirit announced and started with 2 Daily Flights

http://ir.spirit.com/releasedetail.cfm?releaseid=630880 (AZA-LAS announcement)

I note you use asterisks to explain some things that YOU find interesting, could you explain why they are interesting. Some of these changes are of no surprise to me yet you find them of interest. I just want to make sure I am not forgetting or completely overlooking the significant or interest in your words of a route change you asterisked.

Alex



Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
User currently offlinenkops From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2660 posts, RR: 6
Reply 5, posted (1 year 11 months 18 hours ago) and read 10576 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):

First of all, thanks as always for doing these threads!!!

Spirits loads were pretty bad on the AZA-LAS run (I get to see the load sheet everyday).... although AZA-DFW is doing pretty well... I think its a smart move to allocate that plane elsewhere, and DEN just might work.... I like the fact that if they cant make a route profitable, then leave it.... seems like smart business.



I have no association with Spirit Airlines
User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7036 posts, RR: 13
Reply 6, posted (1 year 11 months 18 hours ago) and read 10509 times:

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 1):
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
LA MHC-PMC NOV 0>0.2

This is almost certainly an error. PMC is Puerto Montt. MHC appears to be somewhere in Australia.

No idea. It was marked as a USA op. I know nothing about it.

Quoting petteri (Reply 2):
Jetblue's enrance into the KIN market may now really be affecting them.

That's surprising because KIN is very poor. I'd think NK would be the right airline.

Quoting petteri (Reply 2):
Also the FLL Trerminal four renovation due to the south runway construction may be forcing them to relinquish gate space on at least a temporary basis.

I thought the construction was limited to domestic facilities.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 3):
This is surprising. Maybe this is the clarification to the confusion of what's going down at AZA- the plane will O at AZA and D in DEN instead of LAS? Hmmmm

I guess, but why go mess with F9 while ending their messing with G4? Mixed signals.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 3):
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*NK AZA-DEN OCT 0>0.9 NOV 0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0 JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0 APR 0>1.0
Didn't they go in with 2 or 3 RTs?

The PHX thread said that it's just 1 daily, and it's in the morning.

No I was referring to AZA-LAS was supposed to be more than 1 rt and is now gone completely.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 3):
As always, thanks for the updates E!

 
Quoting Atrude777 (Reply 4):
I note you use asterisks to explain some things that YOU find interesting, could you explain why they are interesting. Some of these changes are of no surprise to me yet you find them of interest. I just want to make sure I am not forgetting or completely overlooking the significant or interest in your words of a route change you asterisked.

Well, I tend to mark routes that are completely dropped or added unless they are in tiny markets like MSL. I also tend to mark routes that are international and see "substantial" frequency change. I, personally, also tend to find the U.S. carriers more interesting than the foreign flags so I mark them less often. I could do more description, but other people complain that it gums up the data dump, so I try to make my comments brief.

Quoting nkops (Reply 5):
First of all, thanks as always for doing these threads!!!

 


User currently offlineHPRamper From United States of America, joined May 2005, 4036 posts, RR: 8
Reply 7, posted (1 year 11 months 17 hours ago) and read 10410 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
US PHL-VCE APR 1.0>0

Is this a seasonal route?


User currently offlinepetteri From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 277 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (1 year 11 months 17 hours ago) and read 10322 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 6):
I thought the construction was limited to domestic facilities.

The entire terminal is going to be redone. The physical dimensions of the current terminal don't work with the layout of the expanded runway. The FLL plan can be seen, in part here (PDF)

http://www.broward.org/Airport/FLLai...ts/Boardupdatejune2012finalada.pdf



The above comments are my personal comments and in no way should be viewed as the views,policy or statements of JetBlue
User currently offlineboberito6589 From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 338 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (1 year 11 months 17 hours ago) and read 10312 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 7):

Is this a seasonal route?

yep, US was going to start several international flights earlier in 2013 but has elected to now start all flights at the same time that they began in 2012 thus the reduction in April for VCE


User currently offlineN782NC From United States of America, joined Feb 2012, 70 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (1 year 11 months 17 hours ago) and read 10276 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
LA SFO-LIM SEP 0.4>1.2 OCT 0.5>1.5 NOV 0.6>1.6 DEC 0.6>1.6 JAN 0.5>1.5 FEB 0.6>1.6 MAR 0.6>1.6 APR 0.6>1.6

Am I the only person who noticed this? Is this route performing so well that they more than double the frequency?



Stairway to Seven
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22724 posts, RR: 20
Reply 11, posted (1 year 11 months 17 hours ago) and read 10277 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 6):
No idea. It was marked as a USA op. I know nothing about it.

My guess is that it's BRC-PMC, which they've flown in the past, but I have no idea how BRC becomes MHC and it's obviously not a US operation in any event. It'll be a cold day before PMC sees service to the States.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5353 posts, RR: 15
Reply 12, posted (1 year 11 months 16 hours ago) and read 10094 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*NK LAS-PDX NOV 2>1.2 DEC 2>1.0 JAN 2>1.0 FEB 2>1.0 MAR 2>1.0 APR 2>1.0
*NK PDX-SAN NOV 0>0.8 DEC 0>1.0 JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0 APR 0>1.0

I noticed this last night. Spirit is actually taking one of their PDX-LAS nonstops and, effective Nov 8, routing it via SAN. So although PDX is gaining a ROUTE on NK (SAN) they are not gaining a departure; they will remain at 3 daily departures -- 1 to Vegas, 1 to DFW, and the new one to SAN.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*NK LAS-LAX NOV 3>2 DEC 3>2 JAN 3>2 FEB 3>2 MAR 3>2 APR 3>2

With this reduction at LAX, that means that since Spirit service started at all of their western stations, service to LAS has been reduced at each one:
LAX - most recently from 3 to 2 (I'm not sure what they started with between LAX and LAS or what the high was);
SAN - from 3 to 2;
OAK - from 3 to 2;
PDX - from 2 to 1;
PHX - from 2 to 0.

I don't know how the other destinations from LAS have fared but these reductions are noticable to me.

bb


User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7036 posts, RR: 13
Reply 13, posted (1 year 11 months 16 hours ago) and read 10080 times:

Quoting N782NC (Reply 10):
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
LA SFO-LIM SEP 0.4>1.2 OCT 0.5>1.5 NOV 0.6>1.6 DEC 0.6>1.6 JAN 0.5>1.5 FEB 0.6>1.6 MAR 0.6>1.6 APR 0.6>1.6

Am I the only person who noticed this? Is this route performing so well that they more than double the frequency?

Could be a duplicate. It's happened before that they forget to delete the existing flight when doing a schedule update. Wanna look on their site?

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 11):
Quoting enilria (Reply 6):
No idea. It was marked as a USA op. I know nothing about it.

My guess is that it's BRC-PMC, which they've flown in the past, but I have no idea how BRC becomes MHC and it's obviously not a US operation in any event. It'll be a cold day before PMC sees service to the States.

OAG uses a 3 digit system to reference countries and states. The USA has the region less than 100 for all the territories and states. My guess us that MHC has no country assigned and that is treated as 0 which is less than 100 and thus put into the USA. Anyway, I'm sure it is a mistake.


User currently offlineyellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 6042 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (1 year 11 months 16 hours ago) and read 9872 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
**NK FLL-NAS OCT 0.8>0.1 NOV 1.0>0 DEC 1.0>0 JAN 1.0>0 FEB 1.0>0 MAR 1.0>0 APR 1.0>0.2

I think this has to do with construction at FLL

Quoting enilria (Reply 6):
That's surprising because KIN is very poor.

Well PAP is pretty poor yet AA does very very well there. KIN is large enough that there is a big middle class, but those folks are very loyal to AA and now B6



When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7036 posts, RR: 13
Reply 15, posted (1 year 11 months 15 hours ago) and read 9704 times:

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 14):
I think this has to do with construction at FLL

I guess I'm surprised a whole destination could be dropped due to construction. The airport is doing a crappy job if they are really to blame. 


User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3718 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (1 year 11 months 13 hours ago) and read 9310 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 15):
I guess I'm surprised a whole destination could be dropped due to construction. The airport is doing a crappy job if they are really to blame. 

Not the first time: DL temporarily dropped FWA-MSP in the fall of 2009 due in part to runway construction at MSP. It returned as a seasonal service in spring 2010, and was made permanent in 2011 after FWA-CVG was axed.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
**NK FLL-NAS OCT 0.8>0.1 NOV 1.0>0 DEC 1.0>0 JAN 1.0>0 FEB 1.0>0 MAR 1.0>0 APR 1.0>0.2

Dropping service to the home of the most popular resort in the Bahamas by far (Atlantis) during peak season sounds fishy to me. NK could have dropped other routes from FLL instead of NAS.



I don't work for FWA, their tenants, or their ad agency. But I still love FWA.
User currently offlineslcdeltarumd11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3349 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (1 year 11 months 13 hours ago) and read 9208 times:

Quoting SANFan (Reply 12):
With this reduction at LAX, that means that since Spirit service started at all of their western stations, service to LAS has been reduced at each one:

That could be strategy and not that LAS has been so horrible. They start large and just fly alot of seats to get people to use them and offer more of the sale fares. Get alot of people to fly them and see its really not that bad etc etc spread the word to jump start the routes. I know several old people who still brag about their $9 fares out ACY and they havnt flowin years lol more people like that to spread the word. It gets them more exposure and gets more people to try you quickly to build a base especially on competative routes like LAS where WN has alot of people on lockdown.


User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7036 posts, RR: 13
Reply 18, posted (1 year 11 months 12 hours ago) and read 9141 times:

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 16):
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
**NK FLL-NAS OCT 0.8>0.1 NOV 1.0>0 DEC 1.0>0 JAN 1.0>0 FEB 1.0>0 MAR 1.0>0 APR 1.0>0.2

Dropping service to the home of the most popular resort in the Bahamas by far (Atlantis) during peak season sounds fishy to me. NK could have dropped other routes from FLL instead of NAS.

I agree it is fishy. Drop 1 RT to somewhere else rather than close NAS. I wonder if they will reverse this in coming weeks? Perhaps it is an attempt to shake down Atlantis for some money???

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 17):
Quoting SANFan (Reply 12):
With this reduction at LAX, that means that since Spirit service started at all of their western stations, service to LAS has been reduced at each one:

That could be strategy and not that LAS has been so horrible. They start large and just fly alot of seats to get people to use them and offer more of the sale fares

It's probably a little of both, but they haven't cut DFW. LAS is clearly worse. Strange...


User currently offlinebeechtobus From United States of America, joined Nov 2011, 298 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (1 year 11 months 11 hours ago) and read 8918 times:

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 17):

"That could be strategy and not that LAS has been so horrible. They start large and just fly alot of seats to get people to use them and offer more of the sale fares. Get alot of people to fly them and see its really not that bad etc etc spread the word to jump start the routes. I know several old people who still brag about their $9 fares out ACY and they havnt flowin years lol more people like that to spread the word. It gets them more exposure and gets more people to try you quickly to build a base especially on competative routes like LAS where WN has alot of people on lockdown."

I think this is pretty close to spot on. Also I recall a situation early 2011 when Spirit first did their large, fast but incremental buildup of LAS, that if by a certain date ( I believe sometime in the late summer) airlines would be charged different lease rates based on their number of flights in and out, the more, the cheaper per flight. I recall 21 was a tier that meant much cheaper leases hence the addition of LAX x5 SAN x3 OAK x3 PDX x2 DFW x2 in addition to the existing ORD and DTW x3 (or 4 based on season) and FLL (seasonally)x1. I believe the intention was never to necessarily keep these frequencies on these particular routes but to shuffle them around as cities were added and also to overall add flights to LAS. It just wasnt possible to set up a bunch of new stations in such a short timeframe. We have seen the shuffling with additions of new stations like DEN, IAH, MSP, AZA (and it's drop from LAS) etc, but not necessarily overall additions in flights to LAS. 2 things at play there, 1) the huge success of DFW as not only an O and D station but also a connecting hub (largely trumps the need for Vegas as a connecting hub) and 2) just not quite the yields and performance NK was expecting from Vegas on some of these routes. I do believe that Vegas will overall be built up for Spirit, it just won't be the southwest like hub for them. Probably more along the lines of a single daily or less than daily frequency to larger (read non-Allegiant) markets.


User currently offlinedtwpilot225 From United States of America, joined Dec 2011, 115 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (1 year 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 6490 times:
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Quoting nkops (Reply 5):

NKOPS, Could you share with us what the DTW-ORD loads were? Im really shocked that Spirit is canceling that route, along with FLL NAS going down and AZA-LAS going down so quickly.

Also, how is DFW-DTW doing?
Thanks


User currently offlinenkops From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2660 posts, RR: 6
Reply 21, posted (1 year 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 6321 times:

Quoting dtwpilot225 (Reply 20):

I think DTW-ORD was used mainly as a reposition flight to get the plane to ORD in the morning... I didn't pay too much attention to those loads.... I usually look at the newer flights and the flights out of my city

I do know AZA-LAS was not doing what Spirit hoped... their were several days where I saw loads not even hit 50%.

FLL-NAS kind of surprises me, however, if you have to cancel a flight due to construction, I guess a short haul would be the smartest where yields would probably be lowest... and NAS is still covered by other airlines.

From what I have seen, DFW-DTW is doing pretty well load wise....

****disclaimer***** although my screen name is confusing, I do not work for NK and will not give out flight loads for specific flights. Also, I only see what flights are booked at and have no clue on no-show factors or yields... thanks



I have no association with Spirit Airlines
User currently offlineCXA330300 From South Africa, joined May 2004, 1560 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (1 year 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 6294 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
OZ SPN-KIX DEC 0>0.5 JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>

Is this a fifth freedom route?



The sky is the limit as long as you can stay there
User currently offlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7521 posts, RR: 28
Reply 23, posted (1 year 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 6205 times:

Quoting nkops (Reply 21):
I think DTW-ORD was used mainly as a reposition flight to get the plane to ORD in the morning... I didn't pay too much attention to those loads.... I usually look at the newer flights and the flights out of my city

The non-business travel O&D on DTW-ORD has pretty much vaporized over recent years. With one flight per day, they were not capturing much of this in comparison to WN, DL, UA, and AA.


User currently onlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17340 posts, RR: 46
Reply 24, posted (1 year 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 6161 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
**NK FLL-KIN OCT 0.5>0.1 NOV 0.4>0 DEC 0.4>0 JAN 0.4>0 FEB 0.4>0 MAR 0.5>0 APR 0.5>0.2
NK FLL-MBJ NOV 0.6>0.7 DEC 0.6>0.7 FEB 0.6>0.7 MAR 0.5>0.7
**NK FLL-NAS OCT 0.8>0.1 NOV 1.0>0 DEC 1.0>0 JAN 1.0>0 FEB 1.0>0 MAR 1.0>0 APR 1.0>0.2

B6 wins again

Quoting N782NC (Reply 10):
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
LA SFO-LIM SEP 0.4>1.2 OCT 0.5>1.5 NOV 0.6>1.6 DEC 0.6>1.6 JAN 0.5>1.5 FEB 0.6>1.6 MAR 0.6>1.6 APR 0.6>1.6

Am I the only person who noticed this? Is this route performing so well that they more than double the frequency?

They always misfile this; it'll be reversed next week

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 16):
Not the first time: DL temporarily dropped FWA-MSP in the fall of 2009 due in part to runway construction at MSP. It returned as a seasonal service in spring 2010, and was made permanent in 2011 after FWA-CVG was axed.

Oh sweet liberty if you think FWA was canceled because of runway construction, out of some 4-500 flights, then I admire your naive optimism. NK isn't cutting FLL because of construction either. They're cutting it because a 90% local airline can't make a connecting hub work, and B6 appears to beat them every time in that arena.



E pur si muove -Galileo
25 RWA380 : You beat me to it B-, I was wondering how NK was justifying an additional flight to a market they haven't proven yet. The SAN flight will be a very w
26 Post contains images SANFan : Hey B, if you really like your upcoming trip to Dallas, you could go back there in November: as I reported on the other thread, NK's flight 470 will
27 Post contains links mariner : If Spirit is getting good deals from the airports, it may not cost too much money. The Spirit deal at AZA is the same as the Frontier deal - and its
28 FSDan : Which airline is WP? The tooltip says "Aloha Islandair", but that obviously isn't right in this case... Either way, I expect that if they are an airl
29 enilria : Agreed It is too close in to be correct Agreed as well. Sad to see NK and F9 making a route that's questionable to begin with into a disaster. Maybe
30 SANFan : Absolutely, the deal is probably not terribly unlike many airports offer new airlines/routes with waived and reduced fees and lease terms (plus some
31 ROSWELL41 : I'm not sure I would characterize NK's schedule changes in FLL as B6 'winning'. NK's profit per aircraft is the highest in the industry and their mana
32 Post contains images kgaiflyer : OMG -- My little baby is growing up [*sniff*] .
33 mariner : I assume Spirit is just making mischief. mariner
34 enilria : I'm not sure it was your point, but why is NK defending a city where they can't even seem to maintain the same routes for more than a few months? You
35 Post contains images MaverickM11 : It's anything-but-FLL centric NK's management has also said that all their routes are profitable, so I assume NAS and KIN were not.
36 enilria : Anti-FLL-centric Every airline says that. Means nothing...
37 brilondon : I'm sorry, I don't know who BB is, it keeps telling me its Belair of Switzerland and that does't seem to make sense nor does WP which is being shown
38 Post contains images point2point : With some 2800+ pax per day between Denver and Phoenix, I think this allows for some flexibility with flights from DEN-AZA, and at this time, 2 fligh
39 ADent : IATA.org says BB is Seaborne Airlines and WP is Hawaii Island Air, Inc.dba Island Air I found this via Google: Why does the flight reservation say Is
40 Post contains images MaverickM11 : I don't think any airline has ever said that It may or may not be true but if any airline is going to cut underperforming routes faster than you can
41 FlyASAGuy2005 : I know PEK and HKG are two very different destinations but somewhat? related to DL dropping DTWHKG? I can only assume that there are still onward con
42 FWAERJ : I'm just going by what DL said to the local media here when FWA-MSP was originally canceled. I can bet that NK does more connections out of FLL than
43 mariner : I've no idea. mariner
44 MaverickM11 : Over the last few years NK has been doing nothing but downsizing FLL, while growing like wildfire everywhere else. That's a clear signal that FLL is
45 Post contains images RWA380 : Hey B-, lets see how the non-stop goes first, and the SAN trip too.
46 beechtobus : " NK's management has also said that all their routes are profitable, so I assume NAS and KIN were not." That is a pretty broad assumption. While I h
47 FSDan : OK, so WP is really Silver Airways? Once again, I would think that starting up routes from small Mississippi cities to ATL will spell the end of thos
48 AVLAirlineFreq : This is all EAS flying that DL is ending. DL had already announced their intention to leave these markets a year ago after the EAS subsidy expired th
49 enilria : Given that they couldn't make money on AZA-LAS which is a much bigger market, I'd say it'll be a disaster. Airlines never say they have an unprofitab
50 Post contains images point2point : Actually, per the T-100, the number of pax between Las Vegas and Phoenix is about 1750 per day, while the number between Denver and Phoenix is about
51 Cubsrule : LAS-PHX is about 300 miles by road. It's conceivable that some folks are driving rather than flying and that ridiculously low NK fares would stimulat
52 Post contains images point2point : Sorry, I don't really understand this. If we're talking about air traffic, and if a larger market is Phoenix-Las Vegas or Phoenix-Denver, I think tha
53 Post contains images PHX787 : I'll just toss something here: Lots of my ASU friends are from the denver area, and they always fly F9 to get here. Driving would be too far outta th
54 Cubsrule : Well, T100 numbers tell us market size given what the fares are at a given point. So we can say that CHI-SDF is a bigger market than CHI-CVG, and tha
55 Post contains images COSPN : Quoting enilria (Thread starter): OZ SPN-KIX DEC 0>0.5 JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0> Is this a fifth freedom route? Yes Korea has full 5th fr
56 RWA380 : Think this flight will ever end, or is the route on KE a good thing for Skyteam connectivity? I know both NRT-LAX and ICN-LAX are saturated markets,
57 COSPN : NRT-LAX is a busy route and KE has much lower costs than any Japanese or USA carrier (Pay is about 1/2)
58 Post contains images point2point : Okay cubs my friend.... got a better picture now and thank you for clarifying. In terms of fares, probably Phoenix-Las Vegas has a much higher fare r
59 enilria : In 1Q 2012 AZA-LAS was 268 per day and AZA-DEN was zero according to DOT DB1B. I don't see anywhere where I said PHX. Thanks, though...
60 santi319 : Yup it is comming back daily, both flights, people here in A-net get hysterical when an airline turns a route seasonal, then they forget new destinat
61 N737AA : Good point....full airplanes does not mean they are making money.
62 SCL767 : LA MHC-PMC is a domestic route within Chile.
63 Cubsrule : Where's MHC?
64 Post contains links Cubsrule : This thread provides the answer . . . LAN Launches Flights To Chiloé Island (by SCL767 Sep 4 2012 in Civil Aviation)
65 BoeingGuy : Chiloe Island. There is another thread just on this new LA destination.[Edited 2012-09-04 18:29:31]
66 enilria : So apparently it has not yet been assigned a country by OAG.
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