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AA To Recall Last Of Furloughed TWA F/As  
User currently offlineskycub From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 17364 times:

I didnt see this posted anywhere yet....

American Airlines plans to recall the remaining furloughed TWA flight attendants:

"More than 200 Trans World Airlines flight attendants are about to go back to work, nearly 11 years after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks that caused an airline industry slowdown and cost tens of thousands of jobs.

The recall of 211 workers announced Thursday means that for the first time since 9/11, there won't be a single former TWA attendant on furlough. The recall is effective Nov. 17."

Full article:

http://www.stltoday.com/news/nationa...3-29ea-514b-b1e7-203af61d2111.html

64 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSomeone83 From Norway, joined Sep 2006, 3512 posts, RR: 3
Reply 1, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 17336 times:

Wouldn't most of these have gotten another career by now and many would decline the offer?

User currently offlineusxguy From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1041 posts, RR: 5
Reply 2, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 17314 times:

or even still alive?


xx
User currently offlineRyanairGuru From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 5939 posts, RR: 5
Reply 3, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 17252 times:

How safe are these jobs? With AA in bankruptcy what are the chances of these recalled employees being furloughed again? That would be a truly horrific scenario if you've built up another career over 11 years, leave it, and then land back on you ass 12 months later.


Worked Hard, Flew Right
User currently offlineskycub From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 17253 times:

For all the jokes you want to make about them and their age....

I can say that I work along-side several women who came from TWA and each of them is a class-act who put some of my younger co-workers to shame.

These women are hard-workers and seem to truly enjoy their job. One, in her late 60s, and who flew for TWA beginning in the late early 1970s until furloughed in 2001, is the epitome of a "classy stewardess."

As for age, while most of the ones I know range in age from mid-50s to late-60s, I also have a friend still on furlough from TWA who (and he was very junior at TWA) is only mid-30s.

I say congrats to them for having the chance to come back to work if they want to after all this time.


User currently offlineAJMIA From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 737 posts, RR: 15
Reply 5, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 16103 times:

Quoting skycub (Reply 4):
I say congrats to them for having the chance to come back to work if they want to after all this time.

I agree. WELCOME BACK!
It is good to have you with us again.

AJMIA



Lady it's a jet... not a kite.
User currently offlineflyfree727 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 685 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 16016 times:

There is an underlining motive behind AA..

These fa's are eligible for the buy out program, as it was extended to those on "active" status or "furlough" status.

As has been mentioned, it is assumed many have moved on after 9+years of furlough. Many may have opted for the buy-out and taken the money while on furlough status. Now, AA is forcing these furloughs to "make a decision" For each "decline" they receive, AA will be spared from paying the buyout money, as the furloughs have to notify AA of their decision PRIOR to the closing date on the buyout.. If they decline to return, they voluntarily separate (quit) and AA owes them nothing. If they want the buy out, AA will expect them to attend the 6 week training on Oct 1, and then AA will determine when they will be able to leave on the buyout, which could be as late as 4q13. Taking the "money" is going to be on AA's terms.. For those that wish to return and fly indefinitely, I say WELCOME BACK! But, make no mistake, this is going to be a very tough decision for many of these fa's to make. Slightly over 1 month to make a decision AND report to training.

AA ORD


User currently offlineDTWPurserBoy From United States of America, joined Feb 2010, 1778 posts, RR: 7
Reply 7, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 14065 times:

What AA did to the TW flight attendants by stapling them to the bottom of the seniority list was unconscionable. It showed a level of arrogance to dismiss tens of years of faithful service that I have never seen in my 38 years in the airline industry. It was so aggregious that Congress passed a law forbidding it to ever happen again. One friend of mine who started with TW in 1977 receives exactly $303.00 a month as his pension for 25 years of work.

As the old saying goes "What goes around, comes around." One can only hope that the AA f/a's feel some of the pain if the US merger goes through. It would be justice truly served.



Qualified on Concorde/B707/B720/B727/B737/B747/B757/B767/B777/DC-8/DC-9/DC-10/A319/A320/A330/MD-88-90
User currently offlineLONGisland89 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 741 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 13766 times:

Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 7):
As the old saying goes "What goes around, comes around." One can only hope that the AA f/a's feel some of the pain if the US merger goes through. It would be justice truly served.

Yes, hope for all of AA's employees to get screwed as if they all helped orchestrate the TWA merger. AA screwed a lot of folks from TWA and it continues to screw its own employees. To hope for them to feel some pain is egregious. Your comment is garbage.


User currently offlineseatback From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 780 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 13631 times:

Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 7):
What AA did to the TW flight attendants by stapling them to the bottom of the seniority list was unconscionable

You really HATE AA don't you? You have history of negative posts towards AA.

Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 7):
One can only hope that the AA f/a's feel some of the pain if the US merger goes through. It would be justice truly served.

Your comments are rude and mean-spirited.


User currently offlineRyanairGuru From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 5939 posts, RR: 5
Reply 10, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 13490 times:

Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 7):
One can only hope that the AA f/a's feel some of the pain if the US merger goes through.

I am in no way condoning the seniority "integration" that occurred during that merger, I agree with you that it was unconscionable. However, as a flight attendant are you seriously wishing pain on the rank-and-file at AA who had absolutely nothing to do with that decision?



Worked Hard, Flew Right
User currently offlinecatiii From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 3092 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 13374 times:

Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 7):
What AA did to the TW flight attendants by stapling them to the bottom of the seniority list was unconscionable. It showed a level of arrogance to dismiss tens of years of faithful service that I have never seen in my 38 years in the airline industry. It was so aggregious that Congress passed a law forbidding it to ever happen again. One friend of mine who started with TW in 1977 receives exactly $303.00 a month as his pension for 25 years of work.

As the old saying goes "What goes around, comes around." One can only hope that the AA f/a's feel some of the pain if the US merger goes through. It would be justice truly served.

To clarify, isn't it true that it was the AA flight attendants union that stapled them to the bottom of the list, and not AA?


User currently offlineEXMEMWIDGET From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 214 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 13212 times:

Yes. It was the APFA that stapled the TWA F/A's to the bottom of the seniority list, not AA.

User currently offlinePRAirbus From Puerto Rico, joined Apr 2005, 1144 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 13168 times:

YES, TWA FA's union AGREED to go on the bottom of AA FA seniority list prior to the acquisition.

User currently offlinejetjack74 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 7438 posts, RR: 50
Reply 14, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 12561 times:
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Quoting PRAirbus (Reply 13):
YES, TWA FA's union AGREED to go on the bottom of AA FA seniority list prior to the acquisition.

What I was told what happened was the TWA FAs were hoodwinked into signing away their "scope" clause in their contract. It was promised by APFA that they would pursue DOH seniority integration, and then it turned around and stapled them to the bottom of the seniority list



Made from jets!
User currently offlineN62NA From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 4593 posts, RR: 7
Reply 15, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 12530 times:

Quoting EXMEMWIDGET (Reply 12):
Yes. It was the APFA that stapled the TWA F/A's to the bottom of the seniority list, not AA.

Wow, that's stunning. Was it something that the rank-and-file at both AA and TW had to vote for in order for it to pass, or was it just negotiated by "union representatives?"


User currently offlineflyfree727 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 685 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 12378 times:

The TWA seniority is super old news.. 11+ years ago..

I suspect this thread to be locked if it continues to stray off topic.
If you want to discuss the seniority by all means start a thread, i'll jump in!

AA ORD


User currently offlinecatiii From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 3092 posts, RR: 4
Reply 17, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 10841 times:

Quoting PRAirbus (Reply 13):
YES, TWA FA's union AGREED to go on the bottom of AA FA seniority list prior to the acquisition.

Patently false. In no way did they agree to get stapled. In fact they fought it in court for years.


User currently offlineDTWPurserBoy From United States of America, joined Feb 2010, 1778 posts, RR: 7
Reply 18, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 8476 times:

Quoting seatback (Reply 9):
Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 7):What AA did to the TW flight attendants by stapling them to the bottom of the seniority list was unconscionable
You really HATE AA don't you? You have history of negative posts towards AA.

Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 7):One can only hope that the AA f/a's feel some of the pain if the US merger goes through. It would be justice truly served.
Your comments are rude and mean-spirited.

As a former Braniff International employee and a proud member of my profession I have had a ringside seat for many years to the corporate tricks, lies and backroom dealings of AA, their management and some (and only some) of their employees. They have deliberately sabotaged, insulted and shown gross disrespect to the rest of the airline industry. That is why many airlines employees only half-jokingly say "The AA on the tail stands for Arrogant A**holes."

APFA did deliberately take advantage of the TW folks, knowing full well that what they were doing was wrong at the most base levels. No AA crew member had ever had a Uli Derickson stand up to terrorists the way this heroic woman did on TW. They had never had their airplanes blown up on the ground or in the air by evil human beings at that point.

One of the basic tenets of working for an air carrier is RESPECT for the rest of the industry. Can you honestly say AA has ever shown any level of respect?

My comments are not mean spirited and rude. I wish to draw attention to some history that many younger A.Netters have never been exposed to.

Remember the Justice Department investigation of Robert Crandall telling Howard Putnam,CEO of BI to fix prices? Remember when seats were blocked on BI flights in groups of nine (anything more than that would require a management override) on competing flights to DCA, IAD, ORD,JFK and LGA. BI would then cater and staff the flights accordingly only to have a hundred "no shows" and the computer trail led directly back to AA reservations. How about the time when AA held back months worth of tickets from BI pax that had to switch to AA for whatever reason (sometimes because their employees would ride the AirTran system at DFW encouraging BI pax to switch to AA) and then in one day dumped hundreds of millions of dollars on the ticket clearinghouse to be paid immediately? That was the only time BI could not meet payroll. And it was NOT accidental.

AA has a long history of not playing nicely with their industry colleagues. I have personally been left standing at the curb in front of a terminal because the AA crew imperiously announced that " We do not ride with OTHER airlines" and this is only to an airport hotel. After a 16 hour workday it does not endear you to them.We were there for them on 9/11 (I personally attended five funerals for their heroic crews) but sometimes their actions are beyond the pale. They get away with it because their management does not demand that it be stopped and the implication is that they are silently complicit. To take a 40 year TW veteran and place her below an AA new hire was a gross indignity and then to furlough them for many years is just disgusting. It did not have to happen that way. They CHOSE to treat people like that.

I am very happy that 211 professionals have been offered recalls but at this point many are too old, moved on or just passed away to appreciate it. That is sad and reflects poorly on the entire industry. We just don't treat each other like that. That being said, the behavior of APFA, again with the full approval of AA management who could have stopped it is, quite simply, unconsicionable and I find it ironic that because of this Congress passed legislation to prevent it from happening again. I truly hope that AA emerges from BK intact--I have several close friends that work there and I only wish them well.

BTW--if you wany a good, reliable source, read John Nance's book "Splash of Colors." It will verify everything I have said.



Qualified on Concorde/B707/B720/B727/B737/B747/B757/B767/B777/DC-8/DC-9/DC-10/A319/A320/A330/MD-88-90
User currently offlineNWAROOSTER From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 1150 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 8341 times:
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The ONLY reason that American Airlines is calling back the remaining laid off TWA flight attendants is to remove any liabilities that may result to American Airlines if and when they come out of bankruptcy. American Airlines does NOT want any employees that have been laid off for eleven years to cause any problems for American Airlines.
American Airlines dos NOT give a damn about any of it's laid off employees..........
This is just damage control........   



Procrastination Is The Theft Of Time.......
User currently onlinepar13del From Bahamas, joined Dec 2005, 7654 posts, RR: 8
Reply 20, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 8125 times:

Quoting NWAROOSTER (Reply 19):
This is just damage control........

Ah no, it is the human side of writing off expensive leases while in Chpt.11.
The contract terms / obligations in relation to offering the furloughs / buyouts need to be met or discarded to minimize the number of obligations on the company while in Chpt.11. The financial obligation of this is in flux, and I suspect this is a financial move being done to clear and or fix the price.

By end of Oct - if that is the deadline - this cost will be known and can be properly accounted, the cost being looked at is those who take the buyout and those who do not respond.

Personally, I'm not sure any of them who truly loved the job are not now working at another airline, a number of F/A jobs have opened up in the last 10+ years including at startup carriers and normal attrition whether by age or not my type jobs issues. However, there are persons to whom principle is everything and making a point at times is required, so I'm sure we will hear more about the number who decides to return to work.


User currently offlinemultimark From Canada, joined Jul 2006, 797 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks ago) and read 7893 times:

Wow, I'm just surprised they have furlough rights after 11 years! Up here I think CP had three years to be called back and then that was it.

User currently offlineAA767400 From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 2401 posts, RR: 26
Reply 22, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 7755 times:

Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 7):
As the old saying goes "What goes around, comes around." One can only hope that the AA f/a's feel some of the pain if the US merger goes through. It would be justice truly served.

You're always beating the same drum. You wish "them" to get theirs, but you know yourself that because of the bill passed, they're protected.

Was it wrong - yes. In the end, APFA's president at the time is who signed their fate. The AA's FAs are not to blame, and many now work alongside former TW folks. Pretty much everyone agrees it was wrong. Your comments are negative and rude.

Quoting skycub (Thread starter):
American Airlines plans to recall the remaining furloughed TWA flight attendants:

This is the very last batch of former TW FAs. It's been a long and difficult road for them, and this is welcomed news as close the final chapter. They can choose to come back, or take the early out.

There's big changes coming for the workgroup. With a good amount of people taking the early out, AA should be hiring soon after 11-12 years of no progress. It's time for a new American!



"The low fares airline."
User currently onlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13529 posts, RR: 100
Reply 23, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 7634 times:
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Quoting NWAROOSTER (Reply 19):

The ONLY reason that American Airlines is calling back the remaining laid off TWA flight attendants is to remove any liabilities that may result to American Airlines if and when they come out of bankruptcy.

Sadly, I must agree with you. This is to start with a clean slate with bankruptcy redundancy rules.

I expect most of the TWA F/As have moved on and thus it is 'cheap insurance' for AMR.

Quoting AA767400 (Reply 22):
you know yourself that because of the bill passed, they're protected.

That is the truth to the AMR F/As. But it is also why failing unionized airlines will be less likely to be bought.

Quoting AA767400 (Reply 22):
AA should be hiring soon after 11-12 years of no progress. It's time for a new American!

AA first needs a more productive work scheme. I'm not seeing a need for more F/As post bankruptcy.

However, their service has improved dramatically.

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineAA767400 From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 2401 posts, RR: 26
Reply 24, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 7598 times:

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 23):
AA first needs a more productive work scheme. I'm not seeing a need for more F/As post bankruptcy.

Trust me, there will be a need. You see, there's plenty of people that have been waiting for this early out. They're ready, and AA has seen the numbers. You'll see hiring for sure.

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 23):
That is the truth to the AMR F/As. But it is also why failing unionized airlines will be less likely to be bought.

Huh?   



"The low fares airline."
25 Post contains images LONGisland89 : Your comments are mean spirited. I don't see how wishing for employees to feel some of the pain is anything contrary. You being in the industry for a
26 AA94 : Right, because I'm sure the AA flight attendants personally did the stapling. You still haven't exactly explained how active AA F/As had any effect o
27 seatback : You talk as if AA is a human being. You understand that it is not, right? Yes, I remember very well. Although I wouldn't say the BN events didn't hap
28 ASFlyer : APFA, the FA union that represents the interests of the AA FA's, is the entity that chose the staple job. Management told the unions to work it out a
29 gen2stew : Let us not forget that TWA was a small near bankrupt carrier with a decrepit fleet and less than stellar route network that was *BOUGHT NOT MERGED*. T
30 ASFlyer : AA FA's screwed the TWA FA's. That great pay and "vacay senoirity" didn't do most of them any good because they were all put out on the street very s
31 Post contains images NWAROOSTER : You can think about what you said if you find yourself in the same situation and become a laid off flight attendant.
32 gen2stew : TWA WAS BOUGHT, all of the hate and bitterness shown is nothing more than some really bitter grapes and a great deal of ignorance. Think of it this wa
33 tothestars : So how did that decision to staple the TWA f/a's work out for everyone? AA would have been hiring years ago if it weren't for the top of the pay scale
34 multimark : Plenty of other "bought" airlines have seen fairer integration of seniority lists.
35 B727FA : When the APFA stews proffered into the STL base to replace the TWA stews there. The "fence" required the TWA base to be intact and no nAAtive FA coul
36 AA767400 : No, APFA screwed them. And guess what - APFA didn't have a vote with it's membership to ask whether DOH should be done. The then union president, and
37 B727FA : And this is the problem: there are still people who think this was a game or "high school drama" and that they are somehow not culpable in their taci
38 AA767400 : Oh my. Who exactly approved of their stapling? ALL 16,000 FAs did? Every Tom, Dick, and Harry's to blame for their stapling? Calling someone a SCAB i
39 capejet : I think the AA flight attendant union acted properly. It was their job to act in the best interest of their membership. In hindsight they were the onl
40 B727FA : That's where you are have adopted the lie that APFA sold to SOME of their members. The TWA FA's *were* APFA. The union protected SOME of the members
41 capejet : If I were an AA flight attendant at the time of the TW purchase and had only 2 years seniority, I would expect the union to protect my job security ju
42 Post contains images AA767400 : I understand your anger and frustration at AA's FAs... wait, I don't. I understand TW FAs being angry, but what's your beef? Judging by your age, you
43 Longhornmaniac : I'll be the first to admit I was too young to know all of the intricacies of the TW takeover. But people need to remember, this was a takeover, not a
44 yyz717 : And now for a dose of free market reality for everyone who thinks the world (or AA) owes ex-TWA employees a living.... Much, much, safer than the orig
45 airtechy : Delta has bought/merged with at least four other carriers. I don't seem to remember congress having to pass a law to prevent any "merger inequities "
46 B727FA : Who are you to assume my age on anything? Why would you say I "...only have a couple of years left?" What possibly gave you that idea? I've had to st
47 AA767400 : You do realize the majority of FAs that proffered into STL were forced to? You really need to get your facts straights. You can feel sorry all you wa
48 B727FA : You can't be "forced" to proffer...that's the point. Sheese... You seem to know a lot about me based on your opinions of me--my seniority, my mental
49 flyfree727 : While not the exact "terminology" used at AA, your point is correct. After the huge furlough of 2003, most STL fa's were forced transfers by AA. Many
50 Post contains images lightsaber : Wow this thread has gone off topic... I know the TWA shutdown hurt not only the F/As, but the St. Louis region. But the reality is that AA had to make
51 tothestars : Judging from the 'bad blood' on this thread, I doubt many AMR F/As would want to be in STL. Lightsaber They are the majority in STL. There are only a
52 AA767400 : Your truth, and answer what exactly? Correct. Since B727FA wants to correct my terminology, I'll rephrase it. AA FAs were forced from other bases to
53 Post contains images lightsaber : Sure... We believe you. Lightsaber
54 DTWPurserBoy : The pre-merger NW f/a's met with the pre-merger DL f/a's and we quickly decided that "date of hire" was the fairest way to go. AA could have done the
55 crAAzy : My goodness! I continue to find the relentless banter on this situation disturbing, unfortunate, yet fascinating. So I can't help but chime in. 1. It'
56 NW748i : Don't know if ya heard, but in this economy a job like this might be a dream come true--especially if they're already out of work.
57 flyfree727 : I believe 125 have accepted the recall, of which 8 have already indicated they will return just to retire with the buyout. More may choose this option
58 flyfree727 : Correction to above post.. The "buyout" window closes on Sept. 20th AA ORD
59 BDL757 : Do you know how many ppl have put in for the buyout? I was talking with a commuting AA f/a the other day and she thought that the buyout would be qui
60 miaami : As of today 9/12/12. 1250 f/as have requested the Early Out. That number can change up/down until the 9/20/12.
61 flyfree727 : Miaami is correct with his numbers. For the last week, approx 80-100 names EACH NIGHT have been added to the list. With 8 more days, I would imagine t
62 BDL757 : That's a crazy amount of people per night!! It's amazing what a little money can do! Hopefully this will allow those who want to leave to do so on th
63 ASFlyer : Not sure if "ya heard", but if being a FA is the only thing one felt qualified to do every major airline has hired since AA furloughed these FA's. I
64 RedTailDTW : Honestly I still don't get why anyone is still arguing about this. This is something that happened 11 years ago! It may still be effecting a few but h
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