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Qantas To Axe Frankfurt - EK Announcement Imminent  
User currently offlinejetfuel From Australia, joined Jan 2005, 2303 posts, RR: 0
Posted (3 years 9 months 6 hours ago) and read 50486 times:

Qantas is on the verge of signing an alliance deal with Middle Eastern airline Emirates as early as next week, in an effort to stem large losses on the kangaroo route to Europe.

An announcement will follow with Frankfurt being pulled.

Ultimately it will be EK serving European destinations for Qantas.
Rumour has it that QF may lease some LHR slots to EK

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/business/qanta...-20120831-2558r.html#ixzz256Sl1t4E

Where's the passion gone out of the airline industry? The smell of jetfuel and the romance of taking a flight....
285 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 10942 posts, RR: 33
Reply 1, posted (3 years 9 months 6 hours ago) and read 50242 times:

IMHO not a smart move at all but dictated by facts, unfortunately. Now, why should passengers fly EK from Europe to DXB and then continue on QF instead of going EK all the way? This simply does not make sense. Especially not since EK serves all majore Australian markets at least daily

I can understand that QF pulls FRA, they had twice delays of 12 hours within 7 days due to that idiotic curfew regulation. But giving up Europe altogether? No services north of Singapore, or better India, at all?

powered by Eierlikör
User currently offlinesmi0006 From Australia, joined Jan 2008, 1790 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (3 years 9 months 6 hours ago) and read 50219 times:

Interesting, times ahead.

I personally don't want to see this come to pass. I still don't think QF and EK are the best fit. I feel QF and QR would be a much better fit, they can grow together- with EK and QF only EK will grow, with a small potential for QF to hub through DXB to Europe where EK has already maxed out its rights. But what aircraft will QF use for this? And apart from using QF's rights to Europe, this alliance seems to have little benefit for EK, they don't need a domestic network partner, with ADL they cover all major cities with an impressive Trans-Tasman service to boot!

QR on the other hand only has MEL and PER with no additional rights into Australia, QF could feed the DOH hub from SYD and BNE using their routes, QR can also still grow Europe. They also serve a number of secondary European and Middle Eastern niche markets that would be of significant benefit to QF that EK don't serve (ZAG, ESB, BEG). When QR does begin to have issues with rights into Europe then perhaps QF will have the 787s to serve Europe through DOH, a decade down the track.

Furthermore wasn't there a press release from EK or QF saying a deal was 6-months away, now its being announced this week? I will try to find the quote, I am skeptical. Still if it comes to pass will still mix things up in the Australian industry.

This will be very interesting if it indeed comes to pass ( I remain skeptical about these rumours ), rumours are still persistent regarding QR joining oneworld. How would this work? Whilst I recognise many airlines codes-share outside their alliance, the scale and scope of this rumoured deal between QF and EK would be unprecedented outside of an alliance would it not. How can alliance partners BA,

I doubt we will see FRA being pulled, however perhaps it may be re-routed via DXB?

User currently offlinejetfuel From Australia, joined Jan 2005, 2303 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (3 years 9 months 5 hours ago) and read 50163 times:

QF can dump SIN completely and merely fly to DXB and let EK connect with another 30 cities in Europe. It will be sold as opening up over 100 new destinations for Qantas customers. Even SYD-DXB-LHR is more profitable as the fuel burn/loads are way kinder to the A380

HUGE changes ahead. Qantas doesnt need SIN - they will leave that for JQ

Where's the passion gone out of the airline industry? The smell of jetfuel and the romance of taking a flight....
User currently offlinealangirvan From New Zealand, joined Nov 2000, 2106 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (3 years 9 months 5 hours ago) and read 49973 times:

I thought that Qantas had leased two pairs of slots to BA - the ones for HKG to LHR and BKK to LLHR, and BA are also dropping their own LHR-BKK-SYD service, so they would be at least re timing their LHR-BKK service. Can any one identify what BA are using these slots for. Since they are leases, Qantas might take them back eventually.

How many other airlines will be affected by the curfew at FRA? It may not be the only thing, but it may have been the last straw. Cathay and every other airline that flies to Asia has to deal with the curfew.

Perhaps Qantas could have dealt with it by routing the aircraft into an Australian port where a curfew does not matter - ie PER or MEL or BNE. Or FRA could return as a daylight departure from FRA, and then a daylight flight from SIN to SYD. Any option seems better than dropping the port.

User currently offlineLufthansa From Christmas Island, joined May 1999, 3290 posts, RR: 9
Reply 5, posted (3 years 9 months 5 hours ago) and read 49858 times:

Quoting alangirvan (Reply 4):
Cathay and every other airline that flies to Asia has to deal with the curfew.

Not really a problem for a lot of Asian airlines with lunchtime departures from FRA arriving in asia earlier morning. longer connections yes...

User currently offlinealitaliadc10 From Australia, joined Dec 2008, 241 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (3 years 9 months 5 hours ago) and read 49809 times:


The slots at LHR could go to EK,

Orbis non sufficit
User currently offlinemdavies06 From Hong Kong, joined Aug 2009, 435 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (3 years 9 months 5 hours ago) and read 49729 times:

For EK, I think a large part of what EK can gain in this deal is access to QF's FFP. If QF and EK do offer reciprocal FFP benefits than this will give EK a much larger access to the Australian flyer base than it does now. Otherwise, what is there for EK to gain given that EK is already a much bigger player than QF in the Kangaroo route?

From QF point of view this gives them a nice way to further exit from UK and Europe which is beneficial to QF's bottom line. This is a net positive.

IMO I think EK needs this deal done more than QF because I don't think QF needs a strong presence in the European market to maintain its international market share from Australia. This is because they have already lost so much market share through the last decades and QF is never in any market just for prestige. However, with the European market slowing, increased competition from other players (some of which are more nimble) and EK having grown to its present level of market share, it will soon run out of potential to grow in this market.

User currently onlineqf002 From Australia, joined Jul 2011, 3389 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (3 years 9 months 5 hours ago) and read 49734 times:

Looks like it's actually happening... I'm just hoping that the relationship extends to QFF/Skywards as well -- earning QFF points flying EK would be excellent.

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 1):
I can understand that QF pulls FRA, they had twice delays of 12 hours within 7 days due to that idiotic curfew regulation

The delays this week have been caused by an aircraft going tech on the 27th. They have been turning the inbound QF5 aircraft (which arrives in the morning) to operate the previous evening's QF6.

Quoting smi0006 (Reply 2):
I still don't think QF and EK are the best fit. I feel QF and QR would be a much better fit, they can grow together

I absolutely agree -- I think QF stands to make a lot more out of a relationship with QR.

The biggest problem I see is that QF doesn't really have the time and resources to invest in a relationship with QR. They are looking for a quick fix to quite a significant issue, and EK offers them far more straight away.

Of course, had QF leadership responded to this issue a few years ago then things would have been totally different. They've (this management and the previous one) let things go way too far before searching for alternative solutions, and unfortunately this means that they are in a very weak position when it comes to entering new partnerships.

Quoting smi0006 (Reply 2):
I doubt we will see FRA being pulled, however perhaps it may be re-routed via DXB?

Fleet constraints mean that there will have to be cuts next year. It's a bit of a wasted opportunity if they do cut it though, given EK's constraints to Germany. Perhaps they could reroute a daily LHR A380 to FRA, and fly daily to both cities, leaving EK to carry what is left of the LHR traffic?

Quoting jetfuel (Reply 3):
Qantas doesnt need SIN

SIN is still a significant local market for QF. If they want to be a player in the (rather large) Australia-Asia corporate market, then yes they do need SIN, as much as they need HKG and NRT. I wouldn't expect it to see as much service as it does today though, if the EK relationship works out.

User currently offlineQuokkas From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (3 years 9 months 5 hours ago) and read 49509 times:

Quoting jetfuel (Thread starter):
an alliance deal with Middle Eastern airline Emirates as early as next week

I saw this posted in the West Australian but thought I'd wait until something definite appeared. http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-.../alliance-tip-for-qantas-emirates/

Quoting mdavies06 (Reply 7):
Otherwise, what is there for EK to gain given that EK is already a much bigger player than QF in the Kangaroo route?

QF would be sending passengers to EK rather than LH, AF or other carriers serving Europe. EK will need to fill all those A380s they have coming.  
Quoting qf002 (Reply 8):
It's a bit of a wasted opportunity if they do cut it though, given EK's constraints to Germany.

EK still has plenty of opportunity to expand in Germany. They are not limited by aircraft type or frequencies, just by the number of destinations they may serve (four) and they pretty much cover the populous areas. Question is, if QF do dump the FRA frequencies, will the slots go to EK or can QF lease them to someone else?

User currently offlineweebie From Australia, joined Dec 2009, 203 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (3 years 9 months 4 hours ago) and read 49251 times:

Australians are obsessed with flying EK. For that reason I can't see why going with QR would help.

I personally don't like it but if it gets them back in the black well then they have no choice.

User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 10942 posts, RR: 33
Reply 11, posted (3 years 9 months 4 hours ago) and read 49234 times:

The QF slot is up for grabs in that case, but who wants a slot at 22h30 at FRA? It is practically worthless even if slots would be sold here. . But haven't heard so far that slots are traded.

EK can offer hourly services by A380 from 4 destinations in Germany to DXB. If it would be feasibloe to relocate the QF FRA flight to STR or BER is beyond my knowledge. Especially if EK could slap a EK flight no. to the QF service.

The Transport Ministry might not be amused.

powered by Eierlikör
User currently offlinePlanesNTrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 7535 posts, RR: 28
Reply 12, posted (3 years 9 months 4 hours ago) and read 49052 times:

How the mighty have fallen. I hope in the long run that QF is not marginalized by this move, but I do think EK is going to enjoy the agreement.


Make it a double
User currently offlinecarpethead From Japan, joined Aug 2004, 3048 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (3 years 9 months 4 hours ago) and read 49027 times:

The beginning of the end for QF.

1. Everything west of SIN taken care of by EK.
2. NH and/or VA jump on TYO-Australia.
Bye-bye QF in Japan (albeit JQ presence at NRT & KIX) and they can codeshare on JL.
3. Too bad SQ never received the OK to do Australia to US.
4. NZ can takecare of everything east of Australia.

User currently offlineTruemanQLD From Australia, joined Feb 2007, 1859 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (3 years 9 months 3 hours ago) and read 48786 times:

Quoting carpethead (Reply 13):
2. NH and/or VA jump on TYO-Australia.
Bye-bye QF in Japan (albeit JQ presence at NRT & KIX) and they can codeshare on JL.

Big step isn't it? Neither NH or VA are currently, nor likely will be soon, on the AUS-TYO market, while QF maintains SYD flights, and JQ flights from OOL and CNS. Its only other competition (direct anyway) is JL, which isn't really competition given they are both in One World.

Quoting carpethead (Reply 13):
3. Too bad SQ never received the OK to do Australia to US.

I don't think it would have made a difference, given the entrance of VA and DL onto the scene, it is currently quite saturated (IMHO anyway).

Quoting carpethead (Reply 13):
4. NZ can takecare of everything east of Australia.

I assume by this you mean the small Pacific Islands? America wise, QF has South America covered with there own service and LAN. Then they have a strong partnership with AA and services to 3 North American destinations (+ HNL).

This will have a big effect on QF, sure, but will only really effect European ops (+Changes to SIN to accommodate, but wait and see on that). It will also increase numbers on QF Domestic, as EK passengers will feel they only have one choice to book with domestically. It will also strengthen Trans Tasman routes (sure EK operates, but not to QF frequency).

In terms of a loss at SIN... QF would know the number of passengers that terminate at SIN, and those that connect on to Europe, so they will likely change flights to accommodate that.

User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 10942 posts, RR: 33
Reply 15, posted (3 years 9 months 3 hours ago) and read 48497 times:

The more I think about this "deal" between QF and EK, the best way to describe it would be, from the QF point of view, comitting suicide in fear of death.

I have seen such deals in the freight business, where a large player contracted another large player for pick ups and deliveries in areas which they did not cover. At the end of the day, the smaller partner was always victim and either gobbled up or made redundant otherwise. At the end of the day the biz was picked up by third parties and all lost except the consultants and the banks who acted as intermediates.

If QF does not want, or cannot make money on European flights, and that is a situation most European carriers are facing since years, the logical answer is to team up with European carriers serving SIN BKK etc and exchange passengers at these points.

Jumping into bed with the reason for the mess they are in is amazingly bad management. Even though it may make sense on the paper now, the long term implications will be that QF becomes a regional carrier. At best. I am sure that this has not been part of the calculation.

powered by Eierlikör
User currently offlineskipness1E From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2007, 3903 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (3 years 9 months 3 hours ago) and read 48397 times:

Reminds me slightly of Pan Am downsizing, always hoping they find somewhere to stop. They kept cutting but never found a viable and profitable core operation.

[Edited 2012-08-31 03:19:48]

User currently offlineCXfirst From Norway, joined Jan 2007, 3445 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (3 years 9 months 3 hours ago) and read 48376 times:

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 1):
Now, why should passengers fly EK from Europe to DXB and then continue on QF instead of going EK all the way?

Perhaps, with the new QF pax (and already full EK flights), EK simply cannot handle the amount of passengers, so passengers will be forced to use QF as well.

Anyway, I do agree that QR would be better than EK for Qantas (although I'm glad, as I'm still hoping for QR in Star Alliance).

10 years ago, European Carriers were leaving Australia. Now, it seems the reverse is happening....


From Norway, live in Australia
User currently offlineSA7700 From South Africa, joined Dec 2003, 3431 posts, RR: 16
Reply 18, posted (3 years 9 months 2 hours ago) and read 48229 times:

Quoting carpethead (Reply 13):
Everything west of SIN taken care of by EK.

Could you kindly confirm with a source that e.g. LHR and JNB would be included in the "West of SIN" as you have stated it?

Thanks and regards,


When you are doing stuff that nobody has done before, there is no manual – Kevin McCloud (Grand Designs)
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 27674 posts, RR: 81
Reply 19, posted (3 years 9 months 2 hours ago) and read 48157 times:

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 15):
The more I think about this "deal" between QF and EK, the best way to describe it would be, from the QF point of view, comitting suicide in fear of death.

Since we don't know what the deal is yet, I don't know how you can reach that conclusion.

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 15):
If QF does not want, or cannot make money on European flights, and that is a situation most European carriers are facing since years, the logical answer is to team up with European carriers serving SIN BKK etc and exchange passengers at these points.

Why team up with several airlines when you can achieve it all with one?


[Edited 2012-08-31 03:54:53]

aeternum nauta
User currently offlinejetfuel From Australia, joined Jan 2005, 2303 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (3 years 9 months 2 hours ago) and read 48053 times:

Thinking out loud here and considering the huge traffic volume that QF and EK could jointly share I can envisage flights to DXB (on either QF or EK metal) from


All of these cities could then have a genuine one -stop service to over 30 European cities. In that respect it seems like a good deal for travellers

EK's destination list http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emirates_destinations

[Edited 2012-08-31 04:02:44]

Where's the passion gone out of the airline industry? The smell of jetfuel and the romance of taking a flight....
User currently offlinedcaviation From Poland, joined Aug 2011, 245 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (3 years 9 months 2 hours ago) and read 47972 times:

I don't understand this. QF is in alliance. If they really want to stop flights to Europe, why they don't lease the slots to another OneWorld airline?
To me, this looks like a slap in the face or kick in the growing to the entire OneWorld alliance.

User currently offlineAerosol From Germany, joined Oct 2000, 566 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (3 years 9 months 2 hours ago) and read 47839 times:

Slowly but too late the aviation world realizes what Emirates is going to do with these 90+ A380....

User currently offlinecmf From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (3 years 9 months 2 hours ago) and read 47733 times:

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 1):
I can understand that QF pulls FRA, they had twice delays of 12 hours within 7 days due to that idiotic curfew regulation.

We know you hate the curfew but it is not the reason these flights did not take off as planned.

User currently offlineQuokkas From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (3 years 9 months 1 hour ago) and read 47613 times:

Quoting dcaviation (Reply 21):
why they don't lease the slots to another OneWorld airline? To me, this looks like a slap in the face

The questions would be whether it brings any benefit to QF and whether those OW partners actually want the slots in FRA.

Who are the OW partners? In Europe there is AB, AY, BA, IB, S7. With the possible exception of AB, would any of them bring a benefit to QF by receiving those FRA slots? QF already have a JV with BA and code share with AY via their respective hubs.

In Asia there is CX, JL and RJ. Flights to Europe with JL may add to the journey time and distance: CX and QF, for whatever reasons, have never worked closely; and RJ flights would add an extra stop. Given that many passengers prefer one-stop where possible, a link up with EK would have its attractions.

Until an official announcement is made everything is speculation but an agreement with EK might not preclude QF still maintaining agreements or code shares with the carriers it already has. It may simply mean that when booking a flight on QF's website an additional option with EK appears.

25 PanHAM : I think that I explained it. They are teamed up anyhow with interline agreements. When LH stopped serving Australia they started offering through far
26 ual777uk : I just get this, to me this is looking like a slow death of QF. I wonder what BA think of this?
27 mariner : An interline is not a code share. (a) I don't know that Qantas is "selling its soul" to Emirates - I don't know what the deal is - and (b) even if it
28 RAGAZZO777 : Same here, they surely must not be amused at this news. Also, will this mean the entry of Emirates into Oneworld ?!?!
29 jetfuel : Qantas cant offer 1 stop flights to 25 odd European Cities like EK so how can they compete?? NO pax wants to go via SIN and then LHR and then onto the
30 mogandoCI : Lovely ... AA and AB are dating EY, while QF goes to bed with its biggest rival EK, but somehow QR is the one still rumored to join oneworld ??
31 jetfuel : This brings up another issue - Is One world really that important to QF any more????
32 BA174 : So I presume this will almost defiantly be the end of the QF LHR crew base. Its a shame as they already lost work when the HKG and BKK flights stopped
33 seansasLCY : BA is flirting with QR at the moment. I think these alliances all need redoing. So many changes now maybe they should just have a pause and allow eve
34 Post contains images ual777uk : Makes a lot of sense doesn't it...NOT!
35 PanHAM : yes, interline is more flexible . The average passenger does ot care anyhow. good, but what are the real benefits for QF except of "offering one-stop
36 peanuts : Let's call it what it is and cut all the fluff: The Capitulation of QF is in full swing.
37 mariner : Some interlines may be. Some interlines don't give the pax all the code share goodies. And so this passenger does care. I said that it isn't only abo
38 Post contains images VH-BZF : Think you're dreamin' QF are not the only one doing it tough at the moment, look at significant losses at AF/KL, LH, IB/BA and in Asia CX even SQ are
39 PanHAM : Alliances as well. If I go FRA XXX XXX departing on a * carrier ex FRA I might not get a single m&m mileage point. In other words, no advantage o
40 jfk777 : Will Qantas still fly their A380 from Sydney and Melbourne to LHR ? Via Dubai or Singapore ?
41 chris7217 : This is confusing: QF is a major OW member and is now going to team up with EK, a huge competitor in Australia and big rival of QF since years. I thou
42 jetfuel : Wait until September 6. Rumour has it the EK execs arrive on EK412 and there is likely a press release then. If you try and book EK on EK412 SYD-AKL
43 dcaviation : So this shows that OneWorld is OneJoke alliance.
44 jetfuel : 100% agree. Its not working
45 skipness1E : I don't see how you conclude this? Can you explain? As things stand, QF has to survive and if they think that getting close to EK will accomplish thi
46 hz747300 : I agree, I would have thought to the major centers in Europe, Cathay would be an ok partner. EK's reach is undisputed for sure as far as the number o
47 jetfuel : Cathay and Qantas, despite being OW members are like 2 feuding cousins. With Jetstar opening Jetstar Hong Kong Cathay has absolutely no time for Qant
48 mogandoCI : If QF breaks from oneworld, immediately the SCL and DFW routes would be in jeopardy, while LAX would have to be cut back a bit.
49 tayser : As much disgust I have for the so-called flag carrier of Australia, this, to me, is prudent. Death knell? No, just an almighty reality check, more lik
50 Post contains links jetfuel : More news articles from September 1 2012 The code-share agreement is believed to include route swaps whereby Emirates would operate the majority of fl
51 AirGabon : What will happen to the code-share with AF via SIN? It seems to work well. And I don't understand the point with OneWorld now? Why not for QF having c
52 dcaviation : Let me rephrase it. Its OneJoke alliance for Qantas. Signing agreement with EK, Qantas is basically throwing in a towel, and showing other OW members
53 UALWN : With all those 380s and 77Ws on order, I somehow doubt EK will have trouble flying that extra demand. And soon MH. We know CX and QF behave more like
54 aviasian : If this agreement goes through, it would be the second time in recent history that Qantas shoots itself in the foot. The first was when the management
55 hz747300 : If I'm Singapore Airlines, I just demand the rights on the Australia -> US routes which were refused to me just a few years back. As of now, I wou
56 Delta777Jet : For QF this deal is very good, perhaps they will utilize same amount of aircraft which is used right now for the European flights to shuttle people to
57 tayser : Because, like SIN, it's a long way from Europe and cannot compete with the networks of middle eastern carriers into the whole of Europe and North Afr
58 chris7217 : Exactly! I'd consider SQ's chances in this case rather good actually!
59 ytz : This is what makes me skeptical of allowing EK to expand substantially in Canada (though I don't mind if they grow a little in YYZ). Are Australians s
60 mogandoCI : Why would a pax want to do MEL-QF-DXB-EK-CDG when she could more easily do MEL-EK-DXB-EK-CDG ?
61 tayser : A. Singapore Airlines can do diddily-squat, it's the Singaporean Government which needs to negotiate the new treaty/rights. B. Australian carriers ha
62 tayser : If EK dropped one of its 3x daily frequencies to MEL and QF picked up one of them (or QF just added a 4th, 2nd non-stop (as 2 of EKs frequencies fly
63 Post contains links and images RyanairGuru : Those who are talking about the death of Qantas are kidding themselves. The death of Qantas in Europe maybe, but we know full well that Aus-EU is one
64 Post contains links and images lightsaber : I seem to be one of the few that thinks this will be a great improvement for QF. Flying the longer leg is always going to be the most profitable. With
65 weebie : I hate EK and hate flying to Dubai. If from Perth they plan to drop Singapore and use emirates I will be done with Qantas.
66 Post contains images RyanairGuru : Well, if QF survive then yes we are better off. QF will never again be able to make Europe work, especially with the schedule and network to compete
67 Post contains images PanHAM : While STR would be the better choice than BER there are a few questions, first of all, does the Australian-german bi-lateral allow STR as destination
68 changyou : Am curious on this arrangement...QF sponsored MH into OneWorld...Then the asian premium carrier deal with MH failed...QF now moved to EK...So whats th
69 Post contains images airbazar : At least for JNB I htink that will depend on whether QA holds on to the 744's as planned. If they become too costly to operate I don't see QF continu
70 UALWN : Yes, but SQ is in *A while MH is, or will be soon, in ow. Exactly! SQ's use in *A is clear: funnel people from Europe to SE Asia and Oz. One would ha
71 Ychocky : Can someone expand on the JV between BA and QF concerning traffic LHR-SYD? How would this alliance with EK affect this if the LHR slots are moved to E
72 BA174 : BA is hardly famous for having the "on top down under" ethos these days and would probably prefer to ditch SIN-SYD and concentrate on it's core busine
73 multimark : Exactly what I was thinking when I read this story.
74 UALWN : But the same applies now to Oz-ME: QF will need two planes for each daily rotation Oz-DXB and back, while it could easily do Oz-KUL and back with one
75 Post contains images SA7700 : IMHO QF does not have any choice but flying with quads to JNB for the time being. IMO the the demand is there, especially with the QF / SA codeshare
76 Dalavia : The other interesting consequence of cutting back on European flights is that some A380s might be freed up to do the DFW route. Could this explain wha
77 cloudyapple : I think it's the best move they can make given the reality. EK would decimate them if they remained competitors. Turning your arch enemy into your be
78 cloudyapple : Tier miles are not earned on partner airlines in Skywards.
79 LondonCity : The JSA is in place until 2015 and calls for BA/QF to share revenue and to jointly market one another's flights. In which case, if the EK/QF deal goe
80 jfk777 : Qantas should continue flying to LHR over Singapore and use the FRA planes for Australia - Dubai flights.
81 ClassicLover : Hooray, one stop services and Qantas Frequent Flyer points from Dublin! I imagine a lot of people in Europe will be happy to fly from their city, via
82 mariner : Presumably, because they could, and because they want to get there through London or Frankfurt. A lot of Australians fly Emirates. I don't know why y
83 TravellerPlus : Qantas will not stop flying to SIN. It is a major Asian city and the QF group is the second largest airline group at Changi. The ties between the coun
84 IrishAyes : As well as the Middle East. I agree. I think it's just simply difficult for some people to accept the fact that times have changed and Qantas has to
85 UALWN : But that is already possible now, flying just EK from Europe to DXB and on to SYD. There's no gain.
86 Lufthansa : bingo we have a winner. They are going to deploy them and push everybody else out capcity wise like it or not The reality is, Qantas lost these passe
87 mariner : If you can't beat 'em - join 'em. Makes perfect sense to me. mariner
88 Lufthansa : This is it, all the 'death of QF' people are failing to realise... QF is basically already out of this market. I would personally love to see the FRA
89 tayser : EK destinations on offer to Europe: 30 odd. SQ/CX/MH/TG/CZ/MU destinations on offer to Europe (combined (as there's a lot of overlap): half of that.
90 TravellerPlus : QF pax will most likely receive status and miles if using EK, so long as they are ticketed on a QF flight number for the EK sector. This currently hap
91 Post contains images carpethead : Just a theory if QF goes down this path. I am sure SA would figure out some way to make it to Australia if there is a profitable market for the South
92 mariner : I can't imagine why that would be. mariner
93 Quokkas : They already do as part of an agreement with QF, flying between JNB and PER. QF operate the SYD to JNB route. The codeshare arrangement ends at the e
94 hz747300 : That's the point. It's not a one-way street, and QF seems to always be losing out. To the point now, that it seems like it will shrivel down to a dom
95 mdavies06 : Agree. One of the most problematic part of the Kangaroo route is the fuel cost and Qantas doesn't have the equipement to do it well with no hub in th
96 DLPMMM : The other aspect to consider...and why this is a good move by QF...is that the Possible partners in the EU and QF's own government are financially abu
97 Lufthansa : I'd take it slightly more than that, accounting for a hopefully real increase in wages and living standards in australia on an export push to emergin
98 ElPistolero : IIRC, AC was interested in a revenue sharing agreement as long as they invested nothing in the route and got 50% of the profits. That 50% of the prof
99 qantas077 : If you think Canberra will allow QF to fail then you are delusional. It won't happen in yours or my lifetime.
100 SSTsomeday : It's all part of EK's master plan. I'm surprised so many countries on the periphery of EK's route structure allow this decimation to happen, along wit
101 United Airline : What the hell is wrong with them? A few years back they were expanding like mad. Now they are cutting so many routes. Wonder if these routes will be r
102 Lufthansa : well it might in a sense... I could see them doing 'an alitalia'... and allowing virgin to buy the name/take over key routes etc.
103 mariner : Why would that happen? Qantas is a very wealthy corporation, with over $3 billion in cash reserves. mariner
104 Lufthansa : It wouldn't just if the impossible happened and they went through it all. it won't come to that, they'd stop all flying except domestic before it got
105 UALWN : But passengers can already do this by flying EK alone. So what exactly does QF add? Most people fly return trips, so the origin will become the desti
106 mariner : Sure, and I think that action has been taken. In my book, CEO Joyce has bitten the bullet of reality in several remarkable ways. He understands that
107 MHG : I wonder if QF would be able to spend the neccessary huge amount of money to increase the passenger´s flight experience to be at least close to EK´
108 PanHAM : Contrary to QF, AB is a German carrier and that makes the whole difference.
109 qf002 : 1. The corporate market, which is one thing that QF most definitely does still control. 2. Access to regional markets. While that seems like a small
110 mariner : Other relationships may make sense, but I don't know of any that make more sense. Whatever posters individual affections for Qatar or Kuwait Airways
111 Post contains images Bill142 : Yeah because they Australian government is going to buy their lack of competition argument? Of course they won't be. Haven't you noticed how manageme
112 Zkpilot : Not necessarily. QF has stand alone agreements with many airlines and has immunity in place with AA to collaborate. AA likes QFs feed into its networ
113 vhtje : Do we know 100% that the deal is with EK and not RJ? The only reason I ask is because I am currently in Amman, and have been for most of the last 2 mo
114 koruman : I do see one potential problem for Qantas. The conventional logic is that the Kangaroo Route is a recipe for losing money because it entails two-secto
115 Post contains images ClassicLover : That would be solid gold if they did, to be honest! RJ serve quite a few cities in Europe, though some are codeshares. That would be very hilarious (
116 Post contains links Quokkas : The Governor General of Australia is in Jordan for a state visit from Saturday, 1 September to Tuesday, 4 September. She will not be announcing any l
117 LJ : I wonder how the management of Mh thinks of QF's plans and wonder if they still think oneworld is their best option... Unless EK and QF get anti-trus
118 cmf : Like it or not? A very defeatist point of view. It is called competition. Time for the other airlines to show they have game instead of complaining.
119 Post contains links huaiwei : QF can dump SIN and surrender the market to SQ at its own peril. All five components of the SQ Group (SQ, SQC, MI, TR, TZ) fly to Australia, and for
120 ElPistolero : This is undoubtedly one of the more interesting possible events/threads around here. One way or another, everyone seems to be convinced that it is a w
121 Ken777 : Maybe they can get EK to buy most of their 380's - looks like they won't be needing as many now I put in a lot of miles on oneworld and never found t
122 Post contains images lightsaber : Which is one reason I'm excited about this venture. It moves the hub to a better location for QF than SIN. At SIN, not only is it a two stop flight,
123 migair54 : I don´t understand this.... it´s very weird.... Actually I think EK does not need QF at all for the Kangaroo route but maybe to get more slots in LH
124 Post contains links and images mariner : Ben Sandilands of Crikey has been aggressively attacking Qantas - and CEO Joyce - for the past couple of years, but he seems quite reasonable about th
125 UALWN : Can't EK deploy another 380 or two (or three!) to those major centers?
126 Delta777Jet : I could imagine that may be this is a nice way for EK to get more flight rights into Germany. QF could extend a Australia-DXB easily with a fifth free
127 Post contains links tayser : http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/other/dfat/treaties/1967/25.html scroll down to the Annex AU carriers can fly from any port [optionally via Indonesia] to
128 lightsaber : EK could provide, with one stop shopping, more en-route connections to Europe. DOH, even the new DOH, doesn't have the growth room. DXB is also a far
129 Post contains images TravellerPlus : Lightsabre, given the debate about how "Australian" the QF group is and how much will remain in Australia, the typo wondering whether they have the ri
130 hz747300 : Agreed sort or an sad & ironic funny. Like would the EK group allow QF to maintain a hub in Australia.
131 Post contains links Quokkas : "This is where we could see Qantas in its support role for the Emirates global vision benefiting, more as an agent than a real airline," is the bit t
132 gemuser : Assuming you mean DXB, the answer is yes, unless my memory is playing tricks on me (not impossible!) I believe DXB is a "free port" that is the gover
133 EK413 : Who cares what OW and CX think of the QF / EK Alliance... Did CX approach QF when they introduced 4 x Daily ex-SYD for example...? There is no cooper
134 hz747300 : Does anyone have the numbers on how much AU -> EU traffic is routed though SIN now? I wonder how much of a squeeze on SQ / SIN this will do. Or how
135 huaiwei : I have seen this document. I am referring to the 2003 MOU, which may have removed most, if not all, those restrictions. I vaguely remember SQ complai
136 Docpepz : JQ using Australian aircraft and rights out of Singapore fly the following fifth freedom routes: SINDPS (JQ-coded flight does this 5 times a week or s
137 EK413 : Reason CX wasn't approached is the same reason QF launched JQ Hong Kong... There isnt any cooperation between the 2 which is sad really considering b
138 Lufthansa : here here well said. Cathay should have... years ago... got closer to EK but it steadfastly refused knowing it had the upper hand. Now... there is an
139 Post contains links EK413 : SYD was one of the 1st cities to receive the new J/C seating and Premium Y/C product and appears other ports will be upgraded gradually... I have inc
140 jetfuel : Well...... something to consider that may (not) be part of this week's announcements. EK is running out of landing rights in a number of European por
141 qf002 : It seems far too complicated and convoluted to me. EK has said that this will just be a simple codeshare deal -- that's all that I'm expecting to see
142 Post contains images lightsaber : Oops. You are correct. That is one heck of a typo! Since it will benefit Dubai in the short term, I think Tim Clark will be told what is good for him
143 a6ega : So QF flies to YVR from SIN with EK carrying traffic from DXB via SIN....? Possible? Way to get around into Canada too?
144 LJ : However, the bilaterals don't always allow more than 2 airlines on a route. However, QRs new strategy to get into Europe with narrowbodies will proba
145 Viscount724 : Not possible. The Canada-Australia bilateral restricts Australian carries to service to YVR (and one other point in Canada of their choice) via inter
146 Post contains images Sydscott : If you use Jetstar Asia, then that is a Singapore Company using Singapore Rights, not Australian ones.
147 zkokq : THIS! is exactly what I was thinking. I see this being a great move for the Qantas group. I really hope this works out. Its one of the most exciting
148 ytz : What's all this talk about Canada? DXB isn't all that popular a destination for Canadians, except as a transit point.
149 zkokq : Its popular for people inbound though for the ski slopes?
150 ElPistolero : Hmmm. Does the Canada-SIN bilat recognize any carrier other than SQ? If it does, expect Canada to cancel the bilateral the moment anything remotely l
151 Post contains links Sydscott : http://www.international.gc.ca/trade...r-acc/facts-air-eclair.aspx?view=d "November 7, 2007 - The agreement is a modern framework for air services tha
152 Viscount724 : There's no limit on the number of carriers from either country that are permitted to operate nonstop service. However, the market for nonstop Canada-
153 sydaircargo : soon QF will be called Emirates Australia
154 a6ega : Source? Just like to talk thats all.
155 Post contains images lightsaber : That is like asking if EK has done poorly at DUB. That has been the poster child of underutilized Australian connections. The beauty of this strategy
156 EK413 : Why is everyone so quick to criticize a joint venture between QF / EK ??? I do not recall VA being heavily criticized when they jumped into bed with
157 alitaliadc10 : EK413 - it sure will...watch out around 0900 SYD time for the big announcement,...Tim Clarke will be in SYD then.
158 jetfuel : If this works the way it potentially could Joyce could end up being the darling of Qantas that the board have been holding him up to be.
159 Post contains images EK413 : Cheers... Do we have date scheduled for the announcement... Sorry I think you might have missed that fine piece of very important information EK413
160 jetfuel : Allegedly Thu 06 Sep
161 thegeek : Absolutely. Just as equally if it goes the way of Red Q, it could make him the pariah that others think he is.
162 sydaircargo : not talking it down ,just cant see QF surviving internationaly long term
163 jetfuel : I agree. This will make or break him. I just hope it doesnt break QF
164 EK413 : From my understanding and I'm sure many will back it up the US & South American routes are providing a very nice return and this includes route c
165 thegeek : And what does one conclude from that? That he sees the need to get a home run on the board. Which is disturbing.
166 Post contains links Sydscott : That's easy; http://www.afif.asn.au/pdf/2007/news/Apr07_UAE.pdf Quote "Australian carriers retain unrestricted rights beyond the UAE, and carriers of
167 mariner : I don't draw that conclusion at all. I don't know what home-runs have to do with it, except for some impatient spectators. mariner
168 EK413 : Yes very easily said than done... However wouldn't it require an enormous amount of investment in aircraft to accomplish it... Your point is taken bu
169 thegeek : And lose it's SIN O&D as well as the feed from partners?
170 Sydscott : Which Partners? BA, Air France etc could all re-route their codeshare pax through DXB rather than SIN. The only partner traffic they would lose is Je
171 thegeek : (a) Could, but why would they? (b) What are the 3K flights going to do if SIN is reduced? (c) There are others, Jet Airways to Delhi, Finnair to Hels
172 Sydscott : Why wouldn't they? In a hypothetical scenario there are all sorts of possibilities. The Jetstar Asia SIN hub should be able to survive on its own. Th
173 EK413 : I agree QFs presence in Europe is still required probably along side a codeshare agreement this could just work... The LHR transit arrangement has be
174 thegeek : That makes it somewhat more hypothetical. Perhaps, but I understood it to be losing money. Downgrading it is likely to make the SIN flights less prof
175 OzGlobal : Quite my thinking. If it goes ahead, this looks like Joyce and co throwing in the towel and giving away the international business to the arch rival
176 Ben175 : I wonder what will happen with Australia-Singapore frequencies. I guess that we'll be down to daily services from PER, if that.
177 EK413 : And once again don't blame QF for approaching EK I'll blame CX for not cooperating and JQ Hong Kong is an example... As for the suicide claims I don'
178 jetfuel : If QF and CX had a codeshare on every flight via HKG and a few route expansions they could potentially have dealt with 10-12 major European destinati
179 OzGlobal : Does EK NEED QF? Only to funnel FF's to EK for premium traffic to EU. Does QF NEED EK, only to cannibalize its Kangaroo route business and 'take it o
180 huaiwei : You are not really answering my question. Why would it be two stops via SIN, and one stop via DXB, especially for major markets like LHR and FRA? The
181 ElPistolero : This is an illogical argument. Look at AC/LH. By your logic, AC doesn't need LH because it is cannibalizing potential AC one stop routes (India comes
182 EK413 : I agree on all counts and unfortunately these are the reasons why QF had no choice but to approach EK (I highly doubt EK approached QF)... Very well
183 Post contains links Dizzy777 : This is the current "Register of Available Capacity" for australian airlines http://www.infrastructure.gov.au/aviation/international/capacity.aspx
184 huaiwei : Thanks, but too bad it does not detail what those "restrictions" are. Which leaves one wondering why any airline bothers to fly long-haul. Everyone c
185 cmf : Because a lot of people are going to other locations. QF have LHR in UK but EK have LHR, BHX, MAN, NCL and GLA. QF have FRA in Germany but EK have FR
186 Post contains links and images lightsaber : For major markets, it would not change. Nor for ZRH or CDG. For more than a dozen other markets, it would change. Those are the markets EK grew off o
187 OzGlobal : This is what I am trying to understand. Is it perhaps a bit like internet business: the first to maket gets the market, but can benefit from complime
188 ElPistolero : Is QF ending all its long-haul operations? Or is it dropping one flight to FRA. Also, how do you define "shorter, regional routes"? Is SIN-SYD a shor
189 Viscount724 : The distinction is whether nonstop service is possible or not. Since Europe-Australia is beyond nonstop range, a carrier like QF has no competitive a
190 thegeek : This point has been massively mitigated with the opening of an LHR cabin crew base. Used to be that it only covered half the flights to LHR but now t
191 Post contains links Dizzy777 : if you cross reference with the current treaties http://www.infrastructure.gov.au/avi...tion/international/agreements.aspx you should find what you w
192 EK413 : Probably not part of the International route restructure but I was wondering if this could open up new routes on the QF network...? With EKs Australia
193 AngMoh : The route network for EK is the same as any other airline - the closer to home, the more the number of secondary cities. They are extremely strong in
194 EK413 : So in other words QF should concentrate on routes closer to home such as the Asian network which has been covered off with JQ setting up bases in SIN
195 6thfreedom : The deal would be on the basis of many QF FF using EK as the carrier of choice if there was a codeshare. For EK it would give access to improved domes
196 thegeek : Thought neither of those airports had curfews? I doubt QF would be very interested in operating this flight as it's a pain to position a wide body in
197 Post contains links ZKOJH : and FRA might not go? ''Both Virgin Australia and Qantas Airways have submitted commission determinations to Australian regulators to extend allocatin
198 Post contains links thegeek : The QF request is confusing. They are seeking a continuation of 3 frequencies per week and to be allowed to allocate them to a subsidiary. http://www
199 6thfreedom : sorry. it didn't read correctly. what i meant was that EK would drop the extension on KUL-MEL, and operate DXB-KUL as a terminator, and that QF would
200 EK413 : Please don't tell me the board are considering handing over the FRA flights to JQ... I really hope this is not true... 5 hours on a low cost is bad e
201 TruemanQLD : I doubt it, given the whole EK thing, why would they then go hand it to JQ? Doesn't make sense
202 Sydscott : It's standard wording on all of their applications at the moment. It doesn't necessarily mean anything.
203 IndianicWorld : Does anyone actually think QF will fly to DXB with their own metal? I just get the feeling all they are looking to do is put a code on EK flights, whi
204 EK413 : Doesn't make any sense to me either which makes 2 of us... Cheers... Thanks for clarifying that fine piece of information... @ this point in time we
205 Quokkas : EK have already announced PER as being triple daily from 1st December. The third frequency flight numbers are: EK422 DXB 21:45 PER 12:25 +1 EK423 PER
206 PanHAM : QF Freight would be a collateral damage of the "deal" instantly. The cargo division of EK is one of the best and most aggressive units in the whole in
207 mariner : What a curious perception. They wouldn't be buying a ticket for an Emirates flight. They'd be buying a ticket for a Qantas flight. mariner
208 ElPistolero : I don't understand the assertion about pax quitting QF for EK. If this is run like AC/LH, why wouldn't it work? Has AC been losing pax to LH? What ar
209 jetfuel : One of the larger issues will be QF pax being put on EK's horrible Y class 10 across 777 seating and the total absence of premium economy
210 lightsaber : Why? If it is the best service, why wouldn't a freight forwarder use QF/EK a la UA/LH? Yes. QF *must* do something different. Look at their losses fo
211 PanHAM : If there was one thing I avoided like the plague when I routed air freight it was connecting with /transferring to another carrier. Fly it as close t
212 na : Ek is only a viable alternative if they put the A380 on that route. The EK 777 cattle class should be out of consideration for any passenger with a h
213 LondonCity : Don't forget as well as BA there's still VS with its daily LHR-SYD flight via HKG. So that makes two European carriers.
214 ElPistolero : I don't see it quite like that. *A is not a cohesive unit (AC doesn't get along with SQ). AC and LH have a revenue sharing pact that is relatively un
215 Post contains images cmf : There should be no doubt about this. The question is if the smartest solution is to join forces with what is arguably the biggest competition. At lea
216 ZuluAlpha : There is a possibility of an announcement on Thrusday. The EK412/413 SYD/AKL/SYD roatation has been pulled from GDS systems on Thursday So it could be
217 jetfuel : The simple way to look at it, assuming QF pax could code share on all EK flights is ONE-STOP service from ADL, PER, MEL, SYD and BNE to Abidjan, Accra
218 LondonCity : Do you think that flight has been cancelled for a photo opportunity ? In other words, an EK A380 displayed alongside a QF A380 ?
219 UALWN : You forgot BCN in the other list. But the point is that all this is already available (except for ADL which is coming soon) flying solely on EK.
220 ElPistolero : You claim it will become a takeover sooner or later. Interesting. Are there examples of this happeningin similar cases in the past? If not, what are
221 Quokkas : This would certainly be a departure from what the QF group has been seeking to achieve over the past few years, though not necessarily contrary to it
222 cmf : Other industries. If there isn't parity between players the smaller will disappear when they cover same territory. I'm not saying that QF will disapp
223 Post contains images huaiwei : "A lot of people"? Really? Any figures to back this up? How many Australians actually travel to non-LHR destinations compared to LHR? And how many Au
224 Quokkas : The demographics of Australia would suggest otherwise. If Australians were only interested in Anglophone destinations then QF would be increasing its
225 Post contains images lightsaber : An example on how better connections will boost demand. I flew LAX-DFW-LAX quite a bit early this year. (too much... every week) On more flights than
226 RyanairGuru : There are no hard-and-fast figures available but all 4 airlines have commented that LAX-Aus is profitable. It became a bloodbath in 2009 with 2 new e
227 cmf : I don't think EK is interested in taking over QF. The issue is that EK will always promote their own seats first and as long they fly to the same des
228 Viscount724 : There wouldn't be enough demand to warrant frequent service on such an extensive 5th freedom network, and 5th freedom services are almost always lowe
229 RyanairGuru : On paper, yes it is legally possible. It will, however, put them out of business in about 6 months. Australia to Europe is the lowest yielding market
230 ElPistolero : I don't disagree. I just don't know what that has to do with QF service on Australia-Europe. We know category one is technically impossible and categ
231 Post contains images lightsaber : Thank you. I didn't realize only 2009 was the 'bloddbath.' I'm happy to see the routes in the black. Note: Expanded presence should mean better yield
232 Post contains images EK413 : Did someone say my name EK413... I'm surprised the question has not been asked regarding which carrier have the passengers been transferred consideri
233 kiwiandrew : Bearing in mind the sort of loads usual for EK's SYD-AKL-SYD service an A380 is highly unlikely to be necessary to pick up the inconvenience pax....
234 Sydscott : I'm sure QF have a spare A330 or 767 sitting around at SYD to sub out the usual Jetconnect 738's doing the service. Shouldn't be a big deal if pax ne
235 EK413 : Just thought it might be a PR stunt with QF operating the service utilizing an A380... EK413
236 WSTAKL : What are the chances EK will use QF metal to get passengers across ditch for their onward flights to DXB?
237 Sydscott : Pretty good I would have thought. Getting EK out, or reducing their Trans Tasman flights, would remove a fair bit of capacity and probably be good fo
238 EK413 : I was under the impression EKs onward flights across the Tasman was to reduce costs and utilize belly space to carry freight...? EK413
239 thegeek : A sure way for QF to lose money. Do we have to suggest 777s in every thread about QF? Particularly when they are talking about shrinking their intern
240 lightsaber : Do you have figures on that? Unless the 'vast majority' are indeed from LHR or FRA, this will boost revenue for QF. The example is how well EK has do
241 WSTAKL : I to thought this was the case, surely it's more economical having the SYD-AKL-SYD sector instead of a A380 parked up in SYD all day? Although, as ha
242 RyanairGuru : If you reread my post I said that LHR was the exception. I should have been more clear: by "Europe" I meant Continental Europe. If LHR wasn't breakin
243 qf002 : If QF were to take over the late departure/early arrival (currently EK412/413), then EK could easily operate much shorter turning flights. The existi
244 RyanairGuru : Hmm, that would work - but those are EK's flagship routes out of Australia and the one's that they are least likely to let go. That said with EK's gr
245 thegeek : Still, I'm surprised that the rumour has changed from FRA increasing, by adding MEL-SIN-FRA to FRA going. I understood the FRA flight was very well l
246 sydaircargo : because its not. hardly any general cargo goes on QF 5 SYD to FRA other then Perishable and exress. EK can take it for way less $$$ and is there via
247 Sydscott : My personal view is that if FRA wasn't a key route they would have pulled it by now. I also don't understand the emphasis on removing FRA in these ne
248 gemuser : Not if the loads/yields are not high enough. The cost of parking in SYD for a day is not that high, others do it. The big cost in parking an aircraft
249 smi0006 : TollDnata do the handling out of Australia, they operate with a much lower cost base then QF, not to mention Dnata (50% owner of TollDnata) is part o
250 thegeek : If there were a tie up with QF it should make it far easier to market EK's SYD-AKL flights. Jetconnect is likely to suffer harm out of that one.
251 Sydscott : I don't know, I'll bet it's cheaper to fire up a Jetconnect 738 than an A380! I think EK will remain on the Tasman but I doubt you'll see the same fr
252 thegeek : I'll bet it is too, but what about on a per seat basis?
253 qf002 : Cheers. I guess that's not a part of this relationship then... At least two -- the aircraft that later depart as QF1 and QF11, assuming that the pres
254 Post contains links jetfuel : QANTAS is expected to announce a partnership with Middle Eastern airline Emirates tomorrow. Emirates president Tim Clark will be in Sydney and the Syd
255 smi0006 : Rather blunt no? Hmmm reference to JQ interests me slightly... As a confessed fan of the QR partnership and two airlines growing (as opposed to one s
256 ual777uk : I am looking forward to hearing a response from BA on the deal!
257 Post contains images EK413 : Once upon a time Qantas provided Catering on EK flights, however due to cost cuts within the catering sector business there was no bid to renew the E
258 gemuser : I would be suprised beyond belief if BA isn't fully aware of the deal and has, at the least, raised no serious objections or maybe is even is part of
259 Post contains images EK413 : Soon to be 91 years... I take your losing sleep awaiting the announcement lol... EK413
260 jetfuel : I have a feeling that we will get an announcement tomorrow and a lot of wishy washy "in the future, subject to developments and approvals, in accorda
261 RyanairGuru : OK, I knew that QF used to cater EK (certainly did in 2007) but wasn't sure if they did "Established" isn't quite the right term, rather purchased an
262 BA174 : I doubt they will be involved. I think BA will drop SYD if the JBA and send the freed up aircraft elsewhere, probably to a more profitable destinatio
263 EK413 : I'm sure whatever the announcement it will be positive news for QF... & not to mention the PR stunt with EK412/413 SYD-AKL-SYD sector is cancelle
264 ElPistolero : Just reading the Economists take on this (it's in the Gulliver Blog). They've identified China 'Sudden' Southern as an aggressive new competitor tryin
265 mogandoCI : I'm sure QR won't be too happy about this deal.
266 qf002 : My bet is that BA can't wait to get as far away from Australia as they can... If QF is losing money to Europe, then BA is almost certainly also makin
267 Post contains images RyanairGuru : Even if LHR-SYD is breaking even, the revenue potential of flying those aircraft to more lucrative destinations rather than tying them up with 4 day
268 RyanairGuru : Hey everyone, It's just occurred to me (in the shower) that QF can't be about to open new services to DXB. Why? They don't have enough frames to fly t
269 mcogator : Doesn't Australia also have a large Lebanese and Egyptian population? I guess they probably flew one of the Gulf airlines anyway to begin with.
270 ClassicLover : What will probably end up happening is that QF will codeshare with EK and... Once they work out what the demand from the various points in Europe is a
271 Post contains links LondonCity : There's a different story on afr.com It claims that rather than a code-share deal between QF and EK, both carriers will agree to an alliance. It seems
272 lightsaber : Exactly. Some of this will have little to no pain for QF. I wonder if QF might fly to CDG as an arm of EK? True. But QF *must* do something different
273 mogandoCI : Why would 2 of the strongest carriers in the world worry about a game plan that's more about survival than about winning ? CX has never particularly
274 Post contains images jetfuel :
275 EK413 : Ok... I used the wrong term... EK purchased I believe 49% of Alpha Catering which in turn I must add handle QFs inflight duty free... No, the 2 cente
276 Sydscott : Speculation. There has not been an announcement yet. The only reason QF doesn't fly to CDG is lack of available rights under the current Australia/Fr
277 Post contains links EK413 : Announcement expected at 10am... Qantas is finally set to ink an alliance agreement today with Middle Eastern rival Emirates aimed at stemming the Au
278 avek00 : In the modern era of the airline business, you do so in a heartbeat if business needs warrant. With its largely revamped cost structure and restructu
279 Sydscott : Here we go everone! SYDNEY, 6 September 2012: Qantas and Emirates today announced a new global aviation partnership that will give their customers a s
280 commavia : It's official. BA-QF JBA is gone. Sad - end of an era. Joyce says the partnership with BA and oneworld is still important to QF, but I do wonder what
281 Post contains links Sydscott : http://imagesignal.comsec.com.au/doc...9lcnJvcnBhZ2VzL3BkZmRlbGF5ZWQuanNw Alan Joyce comments to the media.
282 thegeek : I'm very surprised that the upside of this deal is only $A90m pre-tax. I think this deal is a shame. Apparently, but maybe not? Not that long ago QF g
283 Post contains images EK413 : It seems the all talked about SYD-SIN-FRA chop has become a reality... QFs presence in Europe will now only exist on EKs vast network Sad in a way but
284 Post contains links LipeGIG : As this thread become too extensive and there's a new one covering the effects of the partnership between QF and EK, we are closing this thread for di
285 huaiwei : I have long held the belief that demographics matter increasingly little in today's world. People simply have a tendency to stick to familiar ground,
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