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Will LAN & TAM Become Latam Airlines?  
User currently offlineVC10er From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 2896 posts, RR: 9
Posted (2 years 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 2734 times:
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I have read that LATAM will keep 2 brands flying, LAN for it's current routes etc and TAM for Brazil. However while doing business in Brazil, the talk among executives is that it will eventually become one giant brand serving all or most of South America and globally called LATAM airlines.

I asked, with the horrible loss of VARIG would Brazilians not want their own flag carrier? Not one representing most of the other SA countries? They all seemed to agree that Brazilians don't really care anymore like they once did during VARIG's heyday. Brazilians will fly anything given all the choices they now have.

Are their any facts to support any of this? I cannot find any data to substantiate either.

Thanks


The world is missing love, let's use our flights to spread it!
10 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11438 posts, RR: 58
Reply 1, posted (2 years 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 2512 times:
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All will depend on local Brazilian regulations.

Lan could manage so far to establish their brand in different countries as they allow foreign crew to operate them and give in general full rights. Brazil is different ! They can't fly domestic routes without a plane registered in Brazil and local crew in an airline owned at least 51% by Brazilians.

But we have to remember that Brazil presents the 4th largest domestic market worldwide, probably a few times bigger than the aggregate domestic market of other South American countries.



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User currently offlinePPVRA From Brazil, joined Nov 2004, 8964 posts, RR: 39
Reply 2, posted (2 years 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 2493 times:

TAM'a brand is not what Varig's brand used to be, but I don't see it going away unless TAM's brand gets severely eroded.


"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
User currently offlineLufthansa From Christmas Island, joined May 1999, 3213 posts, RR: 10
Reply 3, posted (2 years 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 2474 times:

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 1):
TAM'a brand is not what Varig's brand used to be, but I don't see it going away unless TAM's brand gets severely eroded.

From a brazilian perspective yes... But what about from the perspective of connections to other hubs using a single brand? Sure it can be done with multiple brands... but a Single brand looks more powerful. IE i want to go from london to Santiago. LAN can offer me a connection via Brazil.


User currently offlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3704 posts, RR: 19
Reply 4, posted (2 years 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 2411 times:

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 1):
They can't fly domestic routes without a plane registered in Brazil and local crew in an airline owned at least 51% by Brazilians.

It's actually 80% of the voting shares. A Brazilian airline is also not allowed to fly foreign-registered on international routes. That's also why unifying brands will not bring any flexibility in terms of fleet unless all aircraft are registered in Brazil. I am not sure, but another problem would present itself in that situation. A foreign crew would not be able to fly an international flight to Brazil. For example, PZ's crew hold Brazilian licenses despite it being a Paraguayan airline.


User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8816 posts, RR: 5
Reply 5, posted (2 years 2 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 2336 times:
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Quoting Lufthansa (Reply 3):
Sure it can be done with multiple brands... but a Single brand looks more powerful. IE i want to go from london to Santiago. LAN can offer me a connection via Brazil.

LAN does code-share on JJ's daily GRU-LHR service, so you can fly LHR-GRU-EZE, LHR-GRU-SCL, etc. on both TAM and LAN. Also, LAN does have Fifth Freedom Rights between Brazil and the E.U. and can operate routes, i.e. SCL-GIG-MAD, SCL-GIG-CDG, SCL-GRU-BCN, SCL-GRU-FCO, SCL-GRU-FRA, etc. But LAN and TAM will continue to maintain separate brands similar to IAG's BA and IB. Both LAN and TAM have strong brands that are recognized throughout the world. Most passengers associate LAN with different South American countries, and they associate TAM with Brazil. The AV-TA group; which has various different brands, is rebranding all their subsidiaries as AV in order to appear "powerful" compared to LATAM. It will be interesting to see how that works for them.

Quoting C010T3 (Reply 4):
A Brazilian airline is also not allowed to fly foreign-registered on international routes. That's also why unifying brands will not bring any flexibility in terms of fleet unless all aircraft are registered in Brazil. I am not sure, but another problem would present itself in that situation.

It's clear that LATAM is keeping the TAM brand for the foreseeable future, i.e. ABSA being branded as TAM Cargo. I would expect that LATAM will transfer a/c between their different subsidiaries if there is a sudden increase or decrease in demand in their respective markets. For example, LAN could transfer B763s over to TAM, similar to LAN Cargo transferring a/c over to TAM Cargo.


User currently offlineVC10er From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 2896 posts, RR: 9
Reply 6, posted (2 years 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 2221 times:
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While I like TAM a lot, and have flown them often in international C and F and domestic sardine cans and the Ponte Aeria. But TAM never as still lacks a Brazilian provenance e.g. Iberia or BA etc. I'm dubious of it's brand strength, especially internationally and it's awareness. There would be a huge financial advantage to manage and build one brand. And LATAM AIRLINES could be very powerful. Just my opinion, but I have to assume it's been discussed. But I assume it's not been discussed openly?

And boy would I love to do that livery!



The world is missing love, let's use our flights to spread it!
User currently offlinePPVRA From Brazil, joined Nov 2004, 8964 posts, RR: 39
Reply 7, posted (2 years 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 2201 times:

Quoting Lufthansa (Reply 3):
From a brazilian perspective yes... But what about from the perspective of connections to other hubs using a single brand? Sure it can be done with multiple brands... but a Single brand looks more powerful. IE i want to go from london to Santiago. LAN can offer me a connection via Brazil.

The way I tend to think about this is, domestic market is King. The domestic network is TAM's value offer to Star Alliance and for the international traveller, so whatever they do, they must maintain a strong domestic brand to help them maintain a strong domestic network. I think the risks of doing away with TAM outweigh the benefits by a good margin.

That said, I am not a marketing person. . .



"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
User currently offlineSJOtoLIR From Costa Rica, joined Jul 2007, 4505 posts, RR: 4
Reply 8, posted (2 years 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 1947 times:

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 5):
The AV-TA group; which has various different brands, is rebranding all their subsidiaries as AV

And that would happen as early as the first half of 2013...



"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8816 posts, RR: 5
Reply 9, posted (2 years 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 1917 times:
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Quoting PPVRA (Reply 7):
The domestic network is TAM's value offer to Star Alliance and for the international traveller, so whatever they do, they must maintain a strong domestic brand to help them maintain a strong domestic network.

TAM's domestic network is even more valuable to LATAM's entire network and will also enable both LAN and TAM to launch new international routes. O6 will have to fill the void when TAM exits the Star Alliance...


User currently offlinejava6673 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 76 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (2 years 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 1737 times:
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Quoting VC10er (Thread starter):

I have read that LATAM will keep 2 brands flying


[As far a understand on conversation with TAM employees in MIA, LAN is taking over all TAM Internationa operations, fist case is BOG, they are working now on MIA operations too.


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