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AA & US Begin Merger Talks  
User currently offlineMountainFlyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 474 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 11 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 30404 times:

http://travel.usatoday.com/flights/p...losure-pact-with-american/836329/1

Quote:
US Airways announced this morning that it has signed a non-disclosure agreement with American Airlines. The agreement will allow the companies to confidentially disclose sensitive financial information to each other as they evaluate the merits of a potential merger.

I guess we all knew it was coming. Looks like AA finally decided to own up to its fate.


SA-227; B1900; Q200; Q400; CRJ-2,7,9; 717; 727-2; 737-3,4,5,7,8,9; 747-2; 757-2,3; 767-3,4; MD-90; A319, 320; DC-9; DC-1
218 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineKDAYflyer From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 155 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (1 year 11 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 30394 times:

As long as AA emerges as the surviving entity....personally I can't stand US. I wont fly them, period. Planes are dirty and the service just plain sucks. I have flown them more than a few times and had a terrible experience on every flight. To me they are the bottom of the barrell; actually they are the black sticky stuff on the bottom.

User currently offlinebobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6449 posts, RR: 9
Reply 2, posted (1 year 11 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 30343 times:

Quoting MountainFlyer (Thread starter):
guess we all knew it was coming. Looks like AA finally decided to own up to its fate.

According to A net posters there are unlimited possibilities for AA. Which one do you see AA owning up to its fate to be?


User currently offlineual777uk From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2005, 3356 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (1 year 11 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 30335 times:

Quoting KDAYflyer (Reply 1):
Planes are dirty and the service just plain sucks. I have flown them more than a few times and had a terrible experience on every flight. To me they are the bottom of the barrell; actually they are the black sticky stuff on the bottom.

Tell us what you really think why dont you  

Whatever happens, AA will be the surviving name, what we all would like to know is whether the AA livery will change as has been suggested.

Fun and games ahead, good luck all at AA and US


User currently offlineKDAYflyer From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 155 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (1 year 11 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 30259 times:

Quoting ual777uk (Reply 3):
Whatever happens, AA will be the surviving name, what we all would like to know is whether the AA livery will change as has been suggested.

I certainly hope AA's service survives the merger.

Quoting ual777uk (Reply 3):
Tell us what you really think why dont you

Sorry. I didnt mean to mince my words LOL


User currently offlineMountainFlyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 474 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (1 year 11 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 30219 times:

Quoting bobnwa (Reply 2):
According to A net posters there are unlimited possibilities for AA. Which one do you see AA owning up to its fate to be?

True, there are any number of possibilities, but I gathered the general consensus was that AA and US would merge unless AA managed to stand alone. I was mostly referring to the news fodder a while back about AA potentially merging with a number of different suitors (AS, B6, F9, etc.). I think most people knew those were unlikely to happen.



SA-227; B1900; Q200; Q400; CRJ-2,7,9; 717; 727-2; 737-3,4,5,7,8,9; 747-2; 757-2,3; 767-3,4; MD-90; A319, 320; DC-9; DC-1
User currently offlinejcwr56 From United States of America, joined Jul 2012, 476 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (1 year 11 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 30094 times:

How are you 100% certain it's AA name that remains?

Hmmm....lets see between the two who has...

* Better union/management relations?
* Better fleet?
* Better FF program?
* Better Brand Identity?
* Better Route and Hub structure?
* Better financials?

One issue, which Alliance? Does AA force US out of Star or does US force AA out of OW. This could an issue with the DoJ.

It's all speculation as of now.


User currently offlineflymia From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 7123 posts, RR: 9
Reply 7, posted (1 year 11 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 29975 times:

With NW/DL and CO/UA it just has to happen. I am confident the things that are actually good about AA with stay like their premium service and FF program. Also I am very confident that a US/AA airline will be called American Airlines.

Quoting jcwr56 (Reply 6):
One issue, which Alliance? Does AA force US out of Star or does US force AA out of OW. This could an issue with the DoJ.

99.9% sure its US/AA to OW. DL has Sky, UA has Star and AA will have OW. It only makes the most sense. Going to Star would make no sense for any of the airlines.



"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
User currently offlineiFlyLOTs From United States of America, joined Apr 2012, 456 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (1 year 11 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 29830 times:

Quoting jcwr56 (Reply 6):
How are you 100% certain it's AA name that remains?

Hmmm....lets see between the two who has...

* Better union/management relations?
* Better fleet?
* Better FF program?
* Better Brand Identity?
* Better Route and Hub structure?
* Better financials?

1. Probably US
2. Could go either way
3. Well, not really sure, not a member of either, but I've heard AA does
4. AA, world recognized, and has been the name of the airline for decades, plus they have an Asian presence.
5. I would say AA except for the lack of a good hub for the South East.
6. AA has more money. Bankruptcy doesn't mean that you're out of cash.

Quoting jcwr56 (Reply 6):
One issue, which Alliance? Does AA force US out of Star or does US force AA out of OW. This could an issue with the DoJ.

Oneworld. Parker has said it will be oneworld, and that way they don't lose the JV with IB and BA. US isn't a part of the LH, UA, etc. JV



"...stay hungry, stay foolish" -Steve Jobs
User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7499 posts, RR: 24
Reply 9, posted (1 year 11 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 29800 times:

Quoting jcwr56 (Reply 6):
How are you 100% certain it's AA name that remains?

Doug Parker came out and said the combined airline will be called American and the HQ will be in Fort Worth, so yes were 100% certain.

Quoting jcwr56 (Reply 6):
* Better union/management relations?
* Better fleet?
* Better FF program?
* Better Brand Identity?
* Better Route and Hub structure?
* Better financials?

To answer your questions:

Better Union/Management relations: US, but both are p**s poor.
Better Fleet: Soon to be AA, but US has some good parts to its fleet.
Better FF program: AA by a long shot.
Better brand identity: AA by a long shot
Better route and hub structure: AA by a long shot
Better financials: US



Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently offlinedcaviation From United States of America, joined Aug 2011, 195 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (1 year 11 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 29755 times:

Quoting KDAYflyer (Reply 1):
As long as AA emerges as the surviving entity....personally I can't stand US.

In this case its going to be lots of people jumping the ship to DL or UA.

I hate AA with the passion and I love US. However, if these two merge I will not fly with US anymore (no matter if they will be called US or AA).


User currently offlineseatback From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 756 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (1 year 11 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 29717 times:

Quoting jcwr56 (Reply 6):
How are you 100% certain it's AA name that remains?

Hmmm....lets see between the two who has...

* Better union/management relations? TOSS UP
* Better fleet? WITH AA'S PLANES ON ORDER....AA
* Better FF program? NO DOUBT...AA
* Better Brand Identity? AA BY FAR
* Better Route and Hub structure? AA
* Better financials? TOSS UP. AA HAS A BOAT LOAD OF CASH, EVEN IN BK.

One issue, which Alliance? Does AA force US out of Star or does US force AA out of OW. This could an issue with the DoJ. AMERICAN WOULD REMAIN IN OW. THEY'RE A FOUNDING MEMEBER WITH A HUGE AMOUNT OF INFLUENCE. MEMBERSHIP INTO STAR WOULD BE TOO MUCH COMPETITION WITH UA

It's all speculation as of now.

Although it may be a US management team, there's no doubt that the "American" name will survive along with current hubs and DFW as its world HQ.

As far as a HQ in Dallas, the facilities on Amon Carter are huge and more than adequate to be the home. Also, DFW is a metro area that is more suitable for an HQ.


User currently offlinephxa340 From United States of America, joined Mar 2012, 882 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (1 year 11 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 29722 times:

Quoting jcwr56 (Reply 6):
How are you 100% certain it's AA name that remains?

Hmmm....lets see between the two who has...

* Better union/management relations?
* Better fleet?
* Better FF program?
* Better Brand Identity?
* Better Route and Hub structure?
* Better financials?

Considering Parker has said it will be the AA name that remains , I would put my money on that.

1. US hasn't even merged its two pilot groups and yet they still have the better relationship - sad isn't it
2. Fleet goes to AA , after their 737 and A32X deliveriesd begin it will be vastly newer and more efficient than US' - not to mention they have way more widebodies for international
3. AAdvantage is consistently voted the best FF , as a user of US' - it royally sucks (Admin Fees galore)
4. AA is better known than US , if fact in Asia , some might have never seen a US widebody in the last 10 years
5. AA also has the better hub and route structure overall but debatable
6. Financials - Are we talking future potential ?

Why would they want to keep the US name ....


User currently offlineseatback From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 756 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (1 year 11 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 29681 times:

In a merger scenario, why would the new entity take on US' lower cost structure? Won't AA's cost structure, once it emerges from BK be even better (lower) than US'?

User currently offlinejetdudetim From United States of America, joined May 2009, 94 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (1 year 11 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 29600 times:

"1. US hasn't even merged its two pilot groups and yet they still have the better relationship - sad isn't it "

First of all, I am very, very pro union. But it surprises me that in 2012 anyone would still believe that management could change this.

Management cannot force the unions to come to an agreement. The unions have to do this. At this point a merger would be the best way to handle this, as it brings in a 3rd party, to whom, hopefully the other union (s) will agree to work with.


User currently offlinephxa340 From United States of America, joined Mar 2012, 882 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (1 year 11 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 29575 times:

Quoting dcaviation (Reply 10):
In this case its going to be lots of people jumping the ship to DL or UA.

Either way , DL and UA are both going to be benefactor to gain some elites that don't like how this potential merger settles out.

Quoting MountainFlyer (Thread starter):
Looks like AA finally decided to own up to its fate.

Merger talks my friend , not merger announcement, AA can always walk if they have their creditors backing. Merging these labor groups is going to be a nightmare, good luck with that Parker - your going to need it.


User currently offlinebrilondon From Canada, joined Aug 2005, 4125 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (1 year 11 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 29498 times:

Quoting jcwr56 (Reply 6):
How are you 100% certain it's AA name that remains?

Hmmm....lets see between the two who has...

* Better union/management relations?
* Better fleet?
* Better FF program?
* Better Brand Identity?
* Better Route and Hub structure?
* Better financials?

One issue, which Alliance? Does AA force US out of Star or does US force AA out of OW. This could an issue with the DoJ.

It's all speculation as of now.

Those questions are all going to be speculation and answered with only people's opinions without any real facts to back up what is said, as usual on A-Net.

Quoting iFlyLOTs (Reply 8):
I would say AA except for the lack of a good hub for the South East.

They could revive RDU I suppose but they have MIA.



Rush for ever; Yankees all the way!!
User currently offlineOzarkD9S From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 5008 posts, RR: 21
Reply 17, posted (1 year 11 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 29420 times:

Quoting phxa340 (Reply 15):


Merger talks my friend , not merger announcement, AA can always walk if they have their creditors backing. Merging these labor groups is going to be a nightmare, good luck with that Parker - your going to need it.

The simple, logical and fair thing to do is simply Date Of Hire. No nightmare if done correctly.



Next Up: STL-LGA-RIC-ATL-STL
User currently offlineckfred From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 5179 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (1 year 11 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 29381 times:

Quoting jcwr56 (Reply 6):
* Better union/management relations?
* Better fleet?
* Better FF program?
* Better Brand Identity?
* Better Route and Hub structure?
* Better financials?

One issue, which Alliance? Does AA force US out of Star or does US force AA out of OW. This could an issue with the DoJ.

The AA name and brand has been around since the days of the DC-3, while Allegheny changed its name to US Air after deregulation. Further, AA is the dominant carrier in Latin America and has an Asian presence. It would be just plain stupid to make the surviving carrier US.

If US and AA merge, I get the feeling that UA would push to have AA/US dropped from Star, if it tried to stay. AA/US would be almost the same size as UA, and that means a lot more people trying to get seats to Europe and Asia.

Quoting dcaviation (Reply 10):
In this case its going to be lots of people jumping the ship to DL or UA.

I hate AA with the passion and I love US. However, if these two merge I will not fly with US anymore (no matter if they will be called US or AA).

Really? You like US. I know people who hated US, when it was Allegheny. I know people who were loyal to Piedmont, then swore off US, after the merger, because US management ditched every good think about Piedmont.

My father-in-law used to fly US, when it had a DAY hub. When he moved to Atlanta and starting flying DL, he couldn't believe how much better DL was.

I know people who lived in Phoenix and were loyal to HP. After the merger, they noticed that HP was slipping into the US mindset. They now fly AA, UA, and WN.

I have been loyal to AA going back to the days of regulation.


User currently offlineLHCVG From United States of America, joined May 2009, 1543 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (1 year 11 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 29326 times:

Quoting brilondon (Reply 16):
Those questions are all going to be speculation and answered with only people's opinions without any real facts to back up what is said, as usual on A-Net.

It's probably safe to say AA's FF and brand identity are both superior to US. Union/mgmt relations is just poor on both ends, so that's a push - the only exception being Parker's "deal" with the AA unions, whatever that's worth. That leaves fleet, routes/hubs, and financials as debatable and subjective.


User currently offlineseatback From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 756 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (1 year 11 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 29328 times:

Quoting brilondon (Reply 16):
Those questions are all going to be speculation and answered with only people's opinions without any real facts to back up what is said, as usual on A-Net.

I don't know that the topics as noted above (better hubs, FF programs etc...) are that debatable. The facts are the facts and aren't really subject to opinion.

Quoting brilondon (Reply 16):
They could revive RDU I suppose but they have MIA.

Why in the world would they do that with CLT??

BTW, a CLT hub and a Miami hub serve two different purposes and needs.


User currently offlinephxa340 From United States of America, joined Mar 2012, 882 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (1 year 11 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 29303 times:

Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 17):
The simple, logical and fair thing to do is simply Date Of Hire. No nightmare if done correctly.

Considering the US East Pilots wouldn't even succumb to BINDING arbitration .... way easier said than done. Like I said , this is going to be a labor bloated company with a hostile workforce (Towards management)


User currently offlinetommy767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6584 posts, RR: 11
Reply 22, posted (1 year 11 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 29032 times:

As they say, LET'S GET IT ONNNNN!!!!

Quoting KDAYflyer (Reply 1):
Planes are dirty and the service just plain sucks. I have flown them more than a few times and had a terrible experience on every flight.

Had the same experiences with AA -- dirty old planes, pissed off crews, constantly feeling like crap whenever I got off their planes. As an AA gold they had me match status to Delta on my hands and knees in 2008. Then they merged with NW and were still good, but harder to upgrade and things got a bit hokey at times. Now I fly UA the most as I can fly PMUA and more widebody metal from EWR (despite UA being a giant mess themselves.)

Quoting KDAYflyer (Reply 4):
I certainly hope AA's service survives the merger.

At least up front. Back in Y they both suck with AA having a slight advantage because they offer comp IFE on domestic flights.

Network wise, it's not a bad pair up:
DFW: US's wet dream, ultimate optimized hub with Airbus metal coming in from both sides. S80s will be finally gone.
ORD: Small RJ's replaced by airbus metal to compete with UA, S80s finally gone here too.
CLT: Another mega hub, major financial center. Can't see it being trimmed in favor of MIA.
MIA: Will focus on their strengths -- building up MIA further to be king in Latin and South America.
PHL: AA can finally scale back their non profitable JFK domestic activity and focus on the high O&D PHL hub.
JFK: I can see T-8 being sold off with AA keeping a small hub presence with reliance on their OW partners.
LAX: Same function as now. Hopefully the CR7s can be replaced by Airbuses.
PHX: Mixed bag. I'd say it has a high chance of being trimmed as it's wedged between profitable LAX and DFW. PHX is a junk yields mecca.


I think they will hand Asia off to JAL. This merged airline doesn't stand a chance to compete with Delta or United in NRT.



"Folks that's the news and I'm outta here!" -- Dennis Miller
User currently offlinedeltaffindfw From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1438 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (1 year 11 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 29018 times:

Quoting phxa340 (Reply 21):
Considering the US East Pilots wouldn't even succumb to BINDING arbitration .... way easier said than done. Like I said , this is going to be a labor bloated company with a hostile workforce (Towards management)

I thought that laws were changed after the US-HP merger that now force binding arbitration on new mergers. That was something I thought Doug Parker said months ago as a benefit to a merger. It would solve the pilot issue.


User currently offlineHPRamper From United States of America, joined May 2005, 4036 posts, RR: 8
Reply 24, posted (1 year 11 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 28974 times:

Quoting seatback (Reply 11):
Also, DFW is a metro area that is more suitable for an HQ.

Metro size really has very little to do with it. For a hub, yes...for HQ no.

Quoting LHCVG (Reply 19):
Union/mgmt relations is just poor on both ends, so that's a push - the only exception being Parker's "deal" with the AA unions, whatever that's worth.

The unions at US don't really have much of a beef with management, the problem is infighting between the unions. Make that only two of the unions. The problem is much overblown and overstated...the pilots of the two unions don't even have issues with one another. It's a dispute on the overall union level. The environment at AA is *FAR* worse.


25 LAXdude1023 : I dont necesarily disagree, but the facilities at DFW are worlds ahead of what US has in Tempe.
26 Post contains images PRAirbus : Let's hope AA initiates merger and not US...AA really has some aggressive and innovative fleet plans (IFE/PTV, etc). USAirways fleet SUCKS!!!! IFE on
27 questions : Are there any potential/likely assets to be divested in a AA/US merger to pay down debt?
28 tommy767 : T-8 at JFK is my first assumption.
29 rotating14 : I heard a while back that if the merger did go through, the aircraft AA has on order would be fulfilled plus the options. It sounded far-fetched to me
30 ItalianFlyer : CNBC had a talking head/analyst on this morning and he actually had an interesting point. Doug and pals have every intention of running the combined C
31 flyby519 : Thats surprising. Why would AA get rid of T-8??
32 traindoc : If US is the acquirer, will they not impose their way on AA? If their management keeps with the US philosophy, then all the good things of AA will dis
33 C010T3 : I don't think they will. Parker doesn't have the Smisek-syndrome. We have the culture on the corporate side and on the customer service side. Of cour
34 bobnwa : Where did you hear that a while back? Another Anet rumor?I don't think either AA or US has made any statement regarding future fleet plans if they co
35 jcwr56 : I totally agree, but WS will look at everything I stated above and place its bets on who they believe will run the organization to produce profits fo
36 LDVAviation : So Parker finally signed the NDA. Big deal! Especially in light of the news that AA is talking to some hedge funds with the intent of securing $2 B i
37 MAV88 : In terms of just the cities, Charlotte and Phoenix are easily the 2 least important ones as just cities go. Charlotte holds its value due to its loca
38 spiritair97 : I'm the complete opposite. I don't trust AA at ALL. They don't screen all their cargo, and it doesn't sit right with me. They fly old, beat up planes
39 Post contains links brooklynchris13 : http://travel.usatoday.com/flights/s...e-step-closer-to-merger/57477908/1 "Nothing in the non-disclosure agreement prevents American from discussing a
40 Post contains links miaami : Here is another party that signed a ND with AA http://finance.yahoo.com/news/britis...s-american-airlines-164448468.html
41 mattya9 : Hypothetically speaking, let's say everything works out and AA and US get married, how long would it be before we actually start seeing any changes ta
42 southwest737500 : I hope the merger doesn't happen. Never flown them, my parents flown AA all they told me was how bad the plane were and how bad the service was horrib
43 N766UA : I remember the days back when we used to have good choices, now it's going to be American (decent service, bad reliability, tumultuous merger ahead),
44 olddominion727 : one of the few things I hate to see is AA sending their res over seas to the PIL-I-PEENS (Philippines)... I cannot understand them, they always call m
45 treebeard787 : I have yet to have a bad experience on a US Airways flight, my most recent trip with them was MSP-GLA with a stop in PHL and the crew's were very goo
46 Clipper136 : Actually! CLT and PHX are connecting hubs. Their value to any airline is not in their O&D numbers, but in two other very important factors, one t
47 kl911 : US livery, US name and AA service would be my choice. Cant stand the boring livery ( its not even a livery, it's nothing) AA has now, and the name is
48 seatback : This is why Doug & co. may not be in charge if a merger comes of this. I think in the end we'll see AA as the acquirer.
49 ckfred : Which is why I don't understand the APA wanting a merger with US. There have been some hard feelings over the TWA/AA merger. The HP and US pilots can
50 jfklganyc : US is in the drivers seat guys as evidenced that Horton didn't even want these discussions and Parker did. You AA fan will have your American name and
51 vgnatl747 : US is far from my preferred carrier, but I will fly with them on occasion as another option for domestic travel within Star Alliance. Occasionally, i
52 southwest737500 : Are you telling me CLT is a bad looking airport Man you guys are picky.
53 vgnatl747 : Did you read my post? I didn't say it was a bad looking airport. During the day, with all of the natural light, it's a beautiful airport. Big open sp
54 B727FA : Even with DOH there are sticking points. At DL for the FA's there were issues with "what is a DOH?" First day of class? Graduation Day? First/Last da
55 milemaster : I'm really struggling not to point out the irony that anyone with Spirit Air as their A.net name would post such a thing.
56 AADC10 : It is no contest. AA is far older and better known than US. The US Air name is only 33 years old. America West did not think twice about assuming the
57 airliner371 : I completely agree. We know it will be AA name and HQ and I agree Parker will run the combined company, many reasons why but one for sure because Hor
58 PGNCS : They did that; one group didn't like the result, broke away, and sued. Now here we are looking at the veritable template of how not to integrate labo
59 silentbob : First, that will never happen for a number of reasons. Not the least of which is that virtually every captain on the old HP side would immediately be
60 HPRamper : American shouldn't have those reliability issues once the new planes come in and pilots quit calling in sick to spite management. If I'm not mistaken
61 vgnatl747 : I worked for Comair at a Delta outstation (upstate NY) from 2004-2007, and the story we heard (not sure how true it was) from the local US employees
62 HPRamper : It was true. The mob presence at PHL was no joke. I've heard anecdotes from former PHL employees - the ones who weren't involved - that make it sound
63 Post contains images AA94 : That's always the experience I've had on US too. Having done a good amount of both F/Y flying on AA, I've consistently had better service even in the
64 olddominion727 : the only think good I can say about such a merger is the CR9 would be a wonderful plane for AA/AE. Markets like JAX, FAT, SBA, SRQ, RIC, ALB, BUF, SWF
65 phxa340 : Source this please. Every single article available actually says the opposite. Sounds like your just hoping they are. PHX is not geographically desir
66 CV880 : Seeing that He's from RDU, would You expect a better critique?
67 rikkus67 : I've flown US Airways (and America West years prior) on the YYC to PHX (round trip) run. Only complaint that I have had was poor PA system at PHX whe
68 JBAirwaysFan : I really don't see what the big problem everyone has with US Airways is. My only complaint with them is that they are very pricey. I have flown them t
69 ER757 : Whoa there....that's a pretty serious allegation. I sure hope you can back that up 'cause that would be a direct violation of TSA and FAA rules. Care
70 nycdave : Actually, right now AA is *acquiring* UA/CO elites w/ matching status, upset with what they feel are a major decline in service & rewards post-me
71 WROORD : That's what Mr. Parker said. He also mentioned that US would move headquarters to DFW.
72 Ken777 : Personally a BA investment in AA is something I'd prefer to see. Especially with the delays in receiving ATI. And what major airline hasn't been thro
73 Beardown91737 : it has to be that since my experience with US has also been on a par with PMHP. There are also probably two AAs, one with all the premium service and
74 Coal : To quote Jim Collins ("Good to Great", "Built to Last", etc): Two mediocre companies do not make a great company. Cheers Coal
75 Post contains images MikeE07 : Good luck to this merger. As far as liveries go, I would really like to see more of the Red, White, and Blue look, with perhaps a REAL flag on the tai
76 HPRamper : I'd like to see an article source stating PHX and CLT are money losers, personally. In any case, a hub doesn't need to print money on O&D to be i
77 Post contains images PHX787 : Me too. All words no sources. (sounds like me sometimes eh? ) Jumping right in here: I was talking with someone very closely involved with PHX and US
78 1337Delta764 : If this merger occurs (assuming US is the buyer), say goodbye to IFE on domestic flights, and goodbye to AA's Boeing orders.
79 spiritair97 : I agree. It's just vinyl lettering on a bare-ass looking hunk of metal. Trust me, I don't care for NK. I made my account before I had actually flown
80 HPRamper : It would have to pass through the USPS system before AA touched it anyway. Why should it be screened twice?
81 southwest737500 : CLT will be fine if the merger happens
82 questions : If it happens... Does anyone think the "new AA" will transfer any ex JFK international routes to PHL? If so, which ones?
83 cws818 : No. AA operates 2 transpacific flights from LAX. JL operates 1; CX operates 3; and QF operates 4. No. DFW is the primary domestic hub and also has ma
84 crAAzy : I'm not quite sure why people are so set on Horton not giving up his position for a combined US/AA. Given his history and experience I'm sure he'd be
85 Zrs70 : My main hope is that whatever iteration the final carrier is, that it honors my Lifetime USAirways Club membership! As a former TW Lifetime Ambassador
86 PHX787 : Which is why B has been very very antsy about this whole thing. I recall a few months back they, being an AA creditor, said "nay" to any form of merg
87 RWA380 : Agreed, if indeed the DOJ considered the alliance the combined airline would be in, then AA/US should stay in O/W, *A does nothing for either of them
88 jmc1975 : Fine is a relative term. Truth is, 600+ flights/day for hub serving a metro area 1/4 the size of DFW is not sustainable long-term under a merger scen
89 spiritair97 : But the USPS obviously doesn't screen it well or he wouldn't have made that comment, which was the real reason I won't fly AA.
90 flymia : As for the Boeing orders and airbus orders AA does have a huge fleet of 738s I don't see them just canceling their orders because US has a large fleet
91 SESGDL : Considering that AA brings nothing to the table that would compete/complement it, yes it is indeed, sustainable. There's a reason that the two hubs i
92 HPRamper : Mail and cargo are very different. Mail is never screened by the airlines. Cargo is subject to stringent standards. Mail is not screened by cargo car
93 ckfred : Anyone who thinks the US name and livery will survive a merger probably thinks New Coke was a good idea. The AA name and brand have been around since
94 Ken777 : Even though AA in in bankruptcy they are still working with 3rd parties to use miles as a sales tool. How many people have a CIti card that "gives yo
95 FI642 : It could be very interesting. I wonder what the Feds will make them divest in order to merge. Will the PHL hub go away because it is close to JFK? Hmm
96 flyguy89 : Disagree. While AA doesn't have a competing hub near CLT and CLT will most definitely remain an important hub in the combined network, if you honestl
97 PHX787 : As a lot of us younger folk keep saying, it's a symbol of failure. People want to fly on something new and nice these days, not something that is abs
98 AS739BSI : Both will be kept. JFK simply doesn't have enough slots during desired times in order to consolidate to JFK. More O&D international traffic will
99 KDAYflyer : I think both of these airlines will have to trash about 50% of thier respective fleets becuase of fuel inefficiencies and the like. And the cultural a
100 HPRamper : The AA scheme has looked dated for a long time now, so US has them there. "Timeless" is an opinion, not a fact. Nope. The major slot-constrained airp
101 airliner371 : Those Boeing orders aren't going anywhere. AA has too many 737s and Boeing planes in general to go all airbus. Don't expect those orders or any other
102 Post contains images jmc1975 : But not at 600+ flights/day when AA's DFW hub is 750+/-. The objective of a merger is to cut costs while obtaining the combined revenue of both entit
103 Post contains images iFlyLOTs : I'm glad you talk for us all when you say that, despite the fact that everyone I know that knows airlines (most of my classmates) say that AA has gre
104 AA94 : Hopefully it's apparent that all my comments which you responded to have a positive connotation. I agree with everything you say. I think we're on th
105 bobnwa : Would I be wrong if I assumed that all the people you asked were between the ages 16-20? Hardly a valid sampling of the traveling public or frequent
106 HPRamper : I consider myself of the younger generation, and I think that while AA has great brand recognition, that doesn't mean it's not a tired brand. AA need
107 PHX787 : Actually yes you'd be wrong. Most of my contacts are between 22-40. Business travelers or travelers going to-from Europe and Asia frequently.
108 Post contains images OB1504 : Because it's a stronger brand. Even if US wins out in all of the points you outlined, they would be idiots to do away with the AA brand because it's
109 Post contains images AA94 : This is the best description of the brand I've seen in a long time. There's a lot of potential left in the AA name, and hopefully with the upcoming f
110 Post contains images wnflyguy : With this Merger I can see the Government making US give Back some prime AA slots at DCA. Like the LAX slot. I can see the Government forcing US to gi
111 questions : AS? Really? Don't get me wrong, I like AS. But I don't think they are targeting the population you reference. I'm not even sure they have a specific
112 phxa340 : If anything the younger generation today are more price sensitive than customers flying 40 years ago as the next generations are predicted to make le
113 SPREE34 : The Boeing orders won't go anywhere. There's too many 80s to replace. The new US/AA will need most all of the aircraft on order. If they cut, I see t
114 PHX787 : Sure there's things that US has problems with apparently when it comes to service (lack of IFE is the most common report) but again it all comes down
115 flybyguy : Huge blow for Boeing. US Airways has moved itself to become an Airbus only airline. As soon as the remaining A330s, A350s and the A32X NEOs come we ca
116 iFlyLOTs : They won't. It makes no sense that they would have signed purchase agreements and have one of the newest 738 and 77W fleets in the world only to get
117 airliner371 : I could see VX going after and getting that LAX slot. AA operates 50 daily departures from DCA so I could see 25 going to B6, WN or a mix. Both WN an
118 SPREE34 : How do you explain the E190. Which Bus will replace that? They can't. Neither Airbus or Boeing can produce sufficient inventory in a reasonable timef
119 B377 : I am constantly amazed at the assumptions A-netters use to justify their positions on various items and questions that this possible merger will cause
120 crAAzy : There's now way AA/US are going to have to give up LGA slots! Even combined the carrier will have less than DL.
121 Post contains images YankeesFan : Why would they do that? AA is trying to replace their MD80 aircraft. AA are getting a mix of Boeing and Airbus aircraft to make their fleet younger.
122 PHX787 : A318 Because DP is sometimes irrational. I can easily see him cancelling the 787 order and replacing that with more 350s
123 Post contains links EricR : What RJ (CR7 and ERJ) market out of LAX should get mainline? DEN vs UA and WN SLC vs DL and WN SJC - why is it RJ now? FAT/SBA/SAN IAH vs UA/CO What p
124 OB1504 : For the operating costs of an A318, an airline would be better off getting an A319 and some extra seats for the same price. The A318 is not a viable
125 iFlyLOTs : Thats a great joke right there. The A318 has a horrible sales record, just like the 737-600 for a reason. They can't compete with the likes of the E1
126 treebeard787 : Precisely, that's why airlines are actually scrapping relatively new A318 frames, because they are worth more as scrap then they are being leased or
127 gigneil : I have seen zero evidence of that. No way. NS
128 HPRamper : When US and HP merged, the DOT let them keep the HP slots even though the surviving certificate was the US one. It's not necessarily guaranteed they
129 airliner371 : US can move the SAN flight to LAX or any out of perimeter domestic destination I believe. So keep the US slots do they don't loose the other out of p
130 mariner : I don't think that is the case. The DCA beyond perimeter slots are destination specific, I believe. mariner
131 Post contains links airliner371 : For AA, UA, US and DL they were told "discontinue the use of a slot for service between DCA and a large hub airport within the perimeter and operate,
132 mariner : All the airlines have to apply for for specific destinations from DCA. Frontier, for example, cannot switch its beyond perimeter slots from DEN to an
133 Sydscott : The one for US doing SAN wasn't. The one's for PHX and LAS are. It'll be interesting to see what happens with these because US/AA will have to give u
134 mariner : To some extent at least, it is. The legacy carriers were allowed to choose their destinations and US opted for SAN. US could apply to change it, but
135 airliner371 : You are right, my thinking was that they were able to choose where they wanted to fly and they would get it no matter what in the first place so they
136 Post contains images SPREE34 : These next five said it all.
137 Post contains links rktsci : Looks like BA is getting into the mix, too. http://www.marketwatch.com/story/ba-...take-in-american-report-2012-09-02
138 AA94 : No offense, but I threw up in my mouth a little bit. LOL.
139 gigneil : Not for the legacies. NS
140 Post contains links Sydscott : They wouldn't necessarily have a say in it. http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/BILLS-1...hr658enr/pdf/BILLS-112hr658enr.pdf Page 81, Paragraphs D and E, qu
141 mariner : I think you'd find they would. The point of these beyond perimeter exemptions - which are mandated by Congress, not by the DOT - is to provide non-st
142 gigneil : Well in this case the law prevents them from doing so. NS
143 Boeing773ER : That is pretty stupid to say. Before DL merged with NW they were an all Boeing (and McDonald Douglass) airline, they even signed a Gentlemen's Agreem
144 mariner : I assume you're addressing the DCA slot exemptions? In which case, it seems to me to he DOT's butt is covered. The exemption has been granted - in th
145 gigneil : That's not the case here is what we're saying. The 4 pairs for the legacy carriers from this last round have no such restrictions NS
146 mariner : I don't see where it says that. At best (D) is ambivalent and (E) only refers to "change of circumstances." Now - if US (say) went to the DOT and sai
147 Sydscott : Correct. The text of the bill passed by congress gives maximum flexibility to the incumbents to chop and change service by notifying the Secretary. T
148 mariner : I still disagree, using (D) as the basis for it and (E) is crucial to that. The Act surely gives the carrier scope to change - if circumstances chang
149 Sydscott : But the balance only happened after DOT did the rounds on the limited incumbents. You had 3 of the 4 incumbents pick their hubs. The 4th was US Airwa
150 mariner : Which was always the reality of what was going to happen, with, perhaps, US as the wild card - or the variable. There I agree completely. Except that
151 Beardown91737 : The feds would get involved if it became unfair to someone. At PHL, the public already has a US fortress. LCC assuming flights to current AA hubs pro
152 phxa340 : Not a chance , and have seen zero evidence that Doug Parker is irrational , explain ?
153 2travel2know2 : Years ago AA de-hubbed RDU, now if AA merges with US, that new airline will have a hub somewhere quite near a former AA hub. Sad to say, but with a po
154 Post contains images airliner371 : Not a chance. CLT is 100% safe. Everyone else has pretty much coverd this. This is completely wrong. Doug is not irrational at all and there is no ev
155 AVLAirlineFreq : So are you saying AA/US would basically de-hub both CLT and PHL following a merger, turning the latter into a focus city? I'm not sure I completely u
156 gigneil : Its simpler than that - Doug Parker and other US execs have said the name would be American Airlines. This is the least obvious thing anyone has ever
157 AS739BSI : AA/US will still need PHL for domestic connections. There are simply not enough slots at LGA, JFK, and EWR. Getting rid of PHL would be absolutely stu
158 Sydscott : For the naysers at PHX consider, if the merged AA was to dump PHX as a hub under a worse case scenario and just focus on hub and focus city flying yo
159 Post contains images PHX787 : Sure 70 flights are left, but there's a HUGE vacancy left in terminal 4. If this happens, one of the concourses will probably shut down, and I'm thin
160 airliner371 : But that won't happen so its ok.
161 phxa340 : Agreed, I don't think PHX will go down to 70 , it will definitely be reduced but not to this extent. Other carriers would fill in the void if US leav
162 PHX787 : I'm curious to know which airlines you think will fill the void? To attempt to compare situations, CVG still hasn't had anything decent come in to "f
163 LAXdude1023 : There isnt going to be a void to fill. PHX is going to be rightsized, but not cut. Right now, US has about a 270 flight a day operation. That number
164 B377 : BA does have limited connecting service in PHX on AA code-share flights to PDX and SEA using Alaska, YYC and YEG using Westjet and of course AE to LA
165 Post contains images bomber996 : NK at AZA... duh Peace
166 Sydscott : It's a worse case. I also doubt the combined carrier would give up flights to places like SAN, SNA, SFO, LAS etc. But it would leave some sort of hol
167 phxa340 : Ah don't forget the second part I said .... if they can make a profit. Obviously CVG can't sustain profitable service. If Delta loved the yields , th
168 airliner371 : People, US Airways is not going to close the entire PHX hub. They need a west coast hub and LAX doesn't have enough gate space or room for flights. IF
169 PHX787 : What I've been trying to say this whole entire time Well then again CVG has it's own issues. It's a huge back-and-forth thing over there that would r
170 HPRamper : Yay, another WN focus city. Except for those of us who don't think Southwest is the greatest thing since sliced bread. Cincy is also nowhere near the
171 phxa340 : I don't think anyone is saying close ... the debate is how much they will downsize it. And not true about LAX, both US and AA have some gate flexibil
172 HPRamper : The constraints at LAX are not slots but gate space and crappiness of the connecting experience. Sure, some stuff can be moved around but not much ca
173 airliner371 : The most they will down size is about 15 flights IF they don't add flights. And US' gates are full in LAX as are AAs so there is not room for more fl
174 phxa340 : CLT has 264 Mainline , PHX is at 189 mainline. PHL is at 148 but many of those are the A330s that go through there. PHX also services the fewest dest
175 Sydscott : I meant a hole in the Terminal at PHX. Again, I don't see the combined carrier giving up much of what they've got at PHX given the Terminal space iss
176 phxa340 : Partially agree ... but everyone is ignoring the other white elephant in the room that is going to take more PHX flights than LAX...... DFW. Eh , US
177 PHX787 : Another reason to keep service at PHX. It's all about the facilities. What makes an airport not profitable? DFW serves its own role- Southern USA. I
178 Sydscott : The disadvantage of DFW is the backtrack if you're on the West Coast. Leaving PHX roughly as it is as a focused Western connection City while LAX is
179 Post contains images phxa340 : I forgot that it is all about the facilities.... my bad. Then where else would US connect passengers on the West ? Parker had to keep PHX for connect
180 Post contains images phxa340 : Right but ... how many customers are really destined to somewhere that PHX is going to be the more convenient stop than DFW and LAX. I can think of a
181 PlanesNTrains : As Commavia has posted previously, there are very few destinations currently providing intra-west connections over PHX. Certainly not enough to warra
182 N737AA : Tell that to the folks in STL...Lack of a large O&D is what killed it....service to support the O&D is all PHX will see if they merge. AA is
183 ckfred : What specifically sucks? From what people who fly the four legacies tell me, it's all about the same. The only stand-outs are WN with their great cus
184 airliner371 : DFW serves a different purpose. Users have given you many valid reasons why PHX will not be cut and now its your choice to listen or not but this ent
185 Post contains images phxa340 : I am listening as are other users .... sorry that your not liking what we are saying The truth hurts. So rather than stating overly-confident facts l
186 HPRamper : What killed STL was more proximity to an omnidirectional megahub in ORD 300 miles away. PHX has plenty of O&D anyway, much more than STL ever had
187 airliner371 : because it serves as the ATL of AA/US where as Miami is great for Latin, South America and the Caribbean but can not serve connections to florida whi
188 flyguy89 : That's way too narrow of an assertion of the role of the DFW hub. DFW is a massive East-West hub, also offering similar connections as ORD to the Mid
189 KDAYflyer : God I hope not.
190 airliner371 : Well AA will be announcing a new livery soon and I doubt US will make it in time before the new livery comes out. They'll probably use the new livery
191 HPRamper : For all we know, US is working with AA on the new livery behind the scenes.
192 boberito6589 : This could be true..but what I find interesting is that US has started repainting the current livery on several aircraft. I know of 704 (A319) has be
193 airliner371 : That could certainly be happening, ya never know....
194 crAAzy : Question: Does anyone have the exact number of slots that US and AA have at the following airports? I just can't seem to find the numbers anywhere. LG
195 airliner371 : American has 50 flights from DCA, 102 in LGA and 86 in JFK. US Airways has 66 in LGA, 6 in JFK, I don't have the DCA number though.
196 lucky777 : The fact that PHX will ABSOLUTELY be "Right-Sized" post-merger is a given. LAX and DFW will simply cannibalize a good deal of what PHX serves right no
197 HPRamper : Prudent in any case, it's a little embarrassing that it took this long honestly for those Piedmont ones. Which is still a very respectable number. PH
198 Post contains images commavia : I suspect that, even if the PHX operation dropped dramatically, the local demand would be sufficient to maintain at least 1 daily PHX-HNL flight, and
199 HPRamper : I could easily see PHX-LAX becoming a shuttle-type route like PHL-BOS, especially if PHX maintains at least focus city size. Question - and I really
200 Flighty : No one would replace AA with US's product. This is about corporate management, not really brands or amenities. US had about 195 at DCA before the Del
201 commavia : I don't think it would be hourly. The market is simply too low-yielding for that, and the competition too intense. I could, however, see, say, 8 dail
202 Post contains images HKG212 : Say it loud! I just hope the new composite fuselages don't make them dump the scheme altogether, rather than just adapt it.
203 mah584jr : If costs are expected to rise, as you say, then wouldn't it be more prudent for AA to emerge from bankruptcy alone? It seems costs were the reason AA
204 boberito6589 : These flights were originally in a thread at the beginning of summer and used Thursday July 26, 2012 as the data. American DFW ER3: 34 ERD: 69 ER4: 18
205 Beardown91737 : Others say 200. 175 would still be more flights than AA's current 160 flights from LAX with 96 mainline. AA flies to 37 destinations from LAX, 22 mai
206 EricR : AA flies to 37 destinations from LAX, 22 mainline and 17 RJ. US has 77 destinations form PHX, 64 of those are mainline. While technically a true state
207 Post contains images AA94 :
208 flyby519 : Do you happen to have data for DL flights at LGA and JFK? I wonder how many slots might have to be divested if AA/US happens
209 panamair : DL has about 265 at LGA and about 180 (peak summer) at JFK.
210 LHCVG : I just noticed your reply - thanks for pointing out my mistake! I do think both situations create some issues for a merger, so in that sense I see th
211 MAV88 : Would CLT remain a key player mainly because of its geographical location?
212 Beardown91737 : In discussing connecting using PHX from cities in California (besides LAX), the AA ORD hub is only available from SNA, SAN, LAS and TUS. US serves th
213 CIDFlyer : yes most definitely. CLT really fills a gap where AA is pretty weak and would be a main competitor to DL in this region.
214 Post contains images wnflyguy : After reading a post on Crankyflier today. I agree once the merger info comes out Republic and F9 will also being invloved. Republic swaps F9 planes a
215 Tx2fl : Well to be honest, on the corporate side as far as a company to work for AA has very little in the way of "good things". It is HIGHLY advanatageous t
216 commavia : I sincerely hope for Mr. Parker's sake that this level of arrogance and myopia doesn't cloud his management if he gets to run a combined airline. AA
217 HPRamper : The airline may have to give up slots at DCA/LGA but they are not going to simply give up JFK slots as a gesture of goodwill. Especially as with PHL
218 Post contains links ManuCH : Please continue discussion here: AA & US Begin Merger Talks Part 2 (by YankeesFan Sep 9 2012 in Civil Aviation) This thread will now be locked.
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