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What's The Beef If US Becomes AA?  
User currently offlinebillreid From Netherlands, joined Jun 2006, 990 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 11 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 17141 times:

So many bloggers are concerned US shouldn't merge with AA. They like AA as it is and don't like US taking over.

But in reality, wouldn't we just have AA with a new CEO and US would disappear?
If the HDQ remains at DFW, and the alliance remains OW, then doesn't it mean nothing else than a larger AA with a new CEO after CH-11?

So whats the beef unless you are a fan of the US brand?


Some people don't get it. Business is about making MONEY!
127 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinewhappeh From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 1562 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (1 year 11 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 17076 times:

The larger beef is that many armchair CEOs and backroom enthusiasts hate US for no real reason, other then one time in 2004 their brother's wife's cousin's housekeeper's dogwalker had SUCH AN AWFUL EXPERIENCE.

Its better for both airlines, beyond the obsessiveness with both brands.



-Travel now, journey infinitely.
User currently offlineinfiniti329 From United States of America, joined Jul 2012, 630 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (1 year 11 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 16982 times:

My biggest problem is having these super airlines. Choices would be more limited and tickets prices on monopolized routes would skyrocket. I dont want another big merger like this with two huge airlines like this. I cant support this

User currently offlinespiritair97 From United States of America, joined Jan 2011, 1231 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (1 year 11 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 16928 times:

MY problem with this whole thing is:

1. I don't trust AA
2. AA has old, ratty aircraft that look like they will stop running any second
3. US is one of my favorite airlines. I hate to think AA might drag it down with them and con them into letting AA stay the name of the airline.
4. With all of these super airlines, the prices are only going to rise, the choices and going to dwindle, and we are gonna be left with AA as the predominant carrier.
5. AA's poor excuse for a livery will be tainting US' nice airbuses, boeings,vand regional jets, instead of keeping US' much more elegant, eye-pleasing colorscheme, which should be the one to stay. AA's "livery" is just vinyl lettering stuck onto an unpainted, unfinished-looking aircraft. It looks like they cut their expenses by not finishing their planes!

Plus, moving the HQ from Charlotte to Dallas would be devestating to the city of Charlotte, and I would hate to see the city's main entity go away. People hate on US for absolutely no reason at all. If somebody has a bad experience of an airline, suddenly the airline is the worst airline in the world.


User currently offlineb757capt From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 1366 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (1 year 11 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 16908 times:

Quoting spiritair97 (Reply 3):

Headquarters is not in Charlotte.

This is the problem, the public needs to be informed.

CLT will not be pulled down......

[Edited 2012-09-01 15:34:10]


The views written by this user are in no manner the views of my employer and should not be thought as such.
User currently offlinetreebeard787 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 653 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (1 year 11 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 16755 times:

Quoting spiritair97 (Reply 3):
moving the HQ from Charlotte to Dallas

US Airways has their HQ in Tempe AZ right now.



Allons-y!
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7832 posts, RR: 52
Reply 6, posted (1 year 11 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 16731 times:

Quoting infiniti329 (Reply 2):
tickets prices on monopolized routes would skyrocket

Which routes are "monopolized?" The DOJ does not allow for that, and concessions are made in mergers



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineBoeing773ER From United States of America, joined Dec 2011, 418 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (1 year 11 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 16667 times:

Quoting spiritair97 (Reply 3):

I've heard you complain about AA's old planes so many times. Im not sure if you heard they have 737-800s, 777-200ERs which are relatively new. Also in the summer of 2011 AA placed an order for 430 new planes, and then they keep adding onto their 777-300ER order. It's ashame that they don't get there new planes right away.

I didn't mean to be rude but you have so many flaws in your post, and you just continue on posting it.

For example, US will be in control of the company. They are the one's who are buying them. With that, US will be the one who gives the OK to the new lively. So it will hopefully be extravagant for you.

The only thing that I can agree with you is that airfare will be going up if this merger goes through.



Work Hard, Fly Right.
User currently offlineHPRamper From United States of America, joined May 2005, 4037 posts, RR: 8
Reply 8, posted (1 year 11 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 16636 times:

Airfare will only likely go up noticeably on routes that currently only see competition between US and AA. People said the same thing before DL/NW and UA/CO but strangely enough it hasn't been as all-encompassing as it was predicted.

Which routes/markets are basically only served by US and AA?


User currently offlinejetblueguy22 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 2767 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (1 year 11 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 16586 times:
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Quoting spiritair97 (Reply 3):
Plus, moving the HQ from Charlotte to Dallas would be devestating to the city of Charlotte,

Even if they were headquartered in CLT I would have to strongly disagree it would be devastating. Charlotte just got a nice boost of high salary employees thanks to UTC buying Goodrich.

I frankly don't like either airline. I think them combining would be disastrous for consumers. I realize prices aren't exactly sky high but it isn't cheap to fly. Having one less choice will cause ticket prices to jump again. Not to mention I can't figure out how they plan to operate. LAX and PHX overlap to a degree, what role does CLT play when you have PHL to the north and MIA to the south. US makes it work now with PHL and CLT but what will happen when a third hub gets thrown into the mix. What alliance are they going to go to? Some claim that there is no way AA would leave OW but who says they don't hop over to *A. Theres just too many unknowns as a consumer to make me like it. Granted I have no say. I'm not a shareholder or creditor of either company so it doesn't directly affect me unless fares go up.
Blue



You push down on that yoke, the houses get bigger, you pull back on the yoke, the houses get bigger- Ken Foltz
User currently offlineazjubilee From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 3894 posts, RR: 28
Reply 10, posted (1 year 11 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 16542 times:

Airfares NEED to rise. This industry is the only one where it seems to be okay for companies to not charge what is required to cover the costs of doing business. Airlines can only slash costs so much and have to have the ability to raise fares as cost increase. If it means consolidation to eliminate over capacity and increase fares thereby giving the airline pricing power, so be it.

User currently offlinemayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10351 posts, RR: 14
Reply 11, posted (1 year 11 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 16454 times:

Quoting azjubilee (Reply 10):
Airfares NEED to rise. This industry is the only one where it seems to be okay for companies to not charge what is required to cover the costs of doing business. Airlines can only slash costs so much and have to have the ability to raise fares as cost increase. If it means consolidation to eliminate over capacity and increase fares thereby giving the airline pricing power, so be it.

People who complain about airfares think nothing of paying $20,000 for a base model automobile...........the same car that cost $10,000, 10 years ago. If anything, airfares have probably gone up the least over the last couple of decades, compared to food, autos, gasoline, etc.

As azjubilee says, airlines seem to be the only ones that aren't allowed to raise their prices to cover their costs. All of you that WANTED de-regulation and thought it would be best for the consumers, here's what you get.....if you want de-regulation to lower fares, you can't complain too much when it also might mean HIGHER fares.



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlineN62NA From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 4430 posts, RR: 6
Reply 12, posted (1 year 11 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 16428 times:

Quoting infiniti329 (Reply 2):
My biggest problem is having these super airlines.

Horse has already left the barn on that one, regardless of whether AA and US merge.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 6):

Which routes are "monopolized?" The DOJ does not allow for that,

We've got dozens of "monopolized" routes right now out of MIA and DFW on AA.

And, to be fair, there are dozens of "monopolized" routes right now out of ATL on DL and EWR on UA.


User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8288 posts, RR: 7
Reply 13, posted (1 year 11 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 16393 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting spiritair97 (Reply 3):
2. AA has old, ratty aircraft that look like they will stop running any second

If I had a "c" note for evrey time I have seen a US 733 or 734 fly over my house I would have millions by now.


User currently offlinedlramp4life From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 927 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (1 year 11 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 16279 times:

I know it has to happen but my "beef" with the merger is: US is what is left of the legacy of what HP created PHX close to 30 years ago. I have lived in PHX awhile and saw it grow within HP and now US, it is just a little sad that the PHX hub will be downsized to a focus city and that HQ will be moving to Dallas. But hey it is how the industry works


PHX Ramp, hottest place on earth
User currently offlineDarkSnowyNight From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1347 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (1 year 11 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 16239 times:

Quoting mayor (Reply 12):

People who complain about airfares think nothing of paying $20,000 for a base model automobile...........the same car that cost $10,000, 10 years ago.

In fairness, base models come with a lot more than they did ten years ago. The vehicle I drive is the "base" model of its lineup, but still has power everything, a/c, 6sp trans, a ridiculous warranty, free preventative mx, right about 40mpg, and decent stereo w/cd, mp3, etc. This was literally unheard of in a $20,000 automobile as recently as 2000. Today it's just about standard.

You really can't say the same about airfares. While they've only risen in step with inflation, relative to ten years ago, service is awful, you have far fewer choices, you pay what amounts to another full fare to make any changes to your tickets, you pay for you bags, food, boarding passes, seat assignments, etc, as well, and airlines are generally uncooperative as all hell when ever something goes wrong.

I remember my girlfriend (sometime around 1999) causing me to miss a flight, because ( & I'm not kidding about this), she needed my help finding her cat. When I arrived at the airport, I explained the situation, sans bullshit, and was re-booked on the next flight. Free of charge. On a coach fare. From Travelocity. Imagine trying that one today.

If airlines want to raise their fares, they need to earn it. For the record, not only myself, but my company (and quite a few others from what I understand) will travel WN or B6, even on fares up to 20% more because they fit a category we call "Least Worst." Granted my company has space-positive agreements with most of our clients, but we do occasionally have to buy travel, and when that happens, the money doesn't go to expensive carriers with crap service and policies (Where possible of course). Just sayin...

You're right, cars a lot more expensive. But at least there exists some justification.

Quoting N62NA (Reply 13):

We've got dozens of "monopolized" routes right now out of MIA and DFW on AA.

And, to be fair, there are dozens of "monopolized" routes right now out of ATL on DL and EWR on UA

And a bunch out of LGA, CLT, LAX, PHX, DTW, MSP, DEN, and probably a few others I'm not thinking of. Route monopolization most definitely does exist, and mega mergers will not solve or help that issue.



Posting without Knowledge is simply Tolerated Vandalism... We are the Vandals.
User currently offlineF9animal From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 5001 posts, RR: 28
Reply 16, posted (1 year 11 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 16144 times:

I just don't want to lose another airline. Yeah, I am greedy, and am so saddened to see some great paint jobs leave our skies. Miss TWA, America West, Continential, Northwest, and the list goes on. Oh yeah, miss Republic too. Mergers have taken away some great photo ops. That is what the beef really is for a.nutters!


I Am A Different Animal!!
User currently offlineHAL From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 2558 posts, RR: 53
Reply 17, posted (1 year 11 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 16106 times:

Quoting azjubilee (Reply 10):
Airfares NEED to rise. This industry is the only one where it seems to be okay for companies to not charge what is required to cover the costs of doing business.

  

The degree of double-standard on this board is sometimes astounding. One one hand, people rant that the airfares are too high, then in the next post, they complain that their favorite airlines are cutting service or folding or declaring bankruptcy. Here's a news flash people: Running an airline is EXPENSIVE! There are huge costs involved, and is will not get cheaper. Asking for a $99 (or even $299) trans-contiental fare is asking for the airline to lose money on you.

It costs a lot to fly. Get over it.

HAL

cue the Allegiant/Ryanair boosters in 3... 2... 1...

[Edited 2012-09-01 18:27:37]


One smooth landing is skill. Two in a row is luck. Three in a row and someone is lying.
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7226 posts, RR: 17
Reply 18, posted (1 year 11 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 16025 times:

Finally some smart thinking about this potential disaster:

Quoting whappeh (Reply 1):
The larger beef is that many armchair CEOs and backroom enthusiasts hate US for no real reason, other then one time in 2004 their brother's wife's cousin's housekeeper's dogwalker had SUCH AN AWFUL EXPERIENCE.

I never flew US, but I know many people here in PHX who have. Not ONCE have they complained about the service. AA on the other hand....every time I see someone on FB complain about a flight, I ask them "Is it AA?" and they say "yes it is."

Most common complaint is delay due to aircraft issue or lost luggage.

Quoting infiniti329 (Reply 2):
My biggest problem is having these super airlines. Choices would be more limited and tickets prices on monopolized routes would skyrocket. I dont want another big merger like this with two huge airlines like this. I cant support this

   It's called a triopoly. Either chose one of 3, or get screwed.

Quoting spiritair97 (Reply 3):
2. AA has old, ratty aircraft that look like they will stop running any second

   Yep. Sans the A320 orders.

Quoting treebeard787 (Reply 5):
US Airways has their HQ in Tempe AZ right now.

Which is why lots of people here don't wanna see the merger happen. Too many jobs lost. Not what the valley needs.



One of the FB admins for PHX Spotters. "Zach the Expat!"
User currently offlineAA94 From United States of America, joined Aug 2011, 578 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (1 year 11 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 15969 times:

Quoting spiritair97 (Reply 3):

Really? Again with this tirade?

The fact that you say that US HQ is in Charlotte shows how poorly informed you are. While Charlotte is a major hub for US, the headquarters is in Tempe, AZ.

Quoting spiritair97 (Reply 3):
3. US is one of my favorite airlines. I hate to think AA might drag it down with them and con them into letting AA stay the name of the airline.
AA has better brand recognition than US does, plain and simple. Regardless of your opinion of AA's "cheap" color scheme, that scheme is what people notice. AA has been around since the DC-3 era. While I agree that their livery could use some freshening up, it makes good business sense to use the more recognizable brand.

AA isn't "conning" US into anything ...

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 19):
Which is why lots of people here don't wanna see the merger happen. Too many jobs lost. Not what the valley needs.

Agreed. But complain to Doug Parker about that. Everyone acts like AA is "stealing" US away from PHX. No. Doug Parker is going after AA and volunteering to move the HQ to DFW.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 19):
Quoting spiritair97 (Reply 3):
2. AA has old, ratty aircraft that look like they will stop running any second

   Yep. Sans the A320 orders.

Right, because those 733s and 734s are the pinnacle of modern aircraft.  

[Edited 2012-09-01 19:54:39]


Choose a challenge over competence / Eleanor Roosevelt
User currently offlinecrj900lr From United States of America, joined Mar 2011, 317 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (1 year 11 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 15809 times:

Quoting AA94 (Reply 20):
Right, because those 734s and 735s are the pinnacle of modern aircraft.

735's? you mean 733's? And those 734's will be gone real soon.


User currently offlineSPREE34 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 2241 posts, RR: 9
Reply 21, posted (1 year 11 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 15763 times:

Quoting spiritair97 (Reply 3):

MY problem with this whole thing is:

1. I don't trust AA
2. AA has old, ratty aircraft that look like they will stop running any second
3. US is one of my favorite airlines. I hate to think AA might drag it down with them and con them into letting AA stay the name of the airline.
4. With all of these super airlines, the prices are only going to rise, the choices and going to dwindle, and we are gonna be left with AA as the predominant carrier.
5. AA's poor excuse for a livery will be tainting US' nice airbuses, boeings,vand regional jets, instead of keeping US' much more elegant, eye-pleasing colorscheme, which should be the one to stay. AA's "livery" is just vinyl lettering stuck onto an unpainted, unfinished-looking aircraft. It looks like they cut their expenses by not finishing their planes!

Plus, moving the HQ from Charlotte to Dallas would be devestating to the city of Charlotte, and I would hate to see the city's main entity go away. People hate on US for absolutely no reason at all. If somebody has a bad experience of an airline, suddenly the airline is the worst airline in the world.

Well, Don, let's look at your points.

#1 I get. Some people don't trust US, F9, FL, WN, Obama, Romney, or Monsanto. You don't trust AA.

#2 AA average fleet age, 15 years. US average fleet age, 12.8 years. I was at DFW last week, and didn't see anything ratty, or similar to the re-entry vehicle paint flaking you see on some of US 734s and others.

#3 AA dragging down US. OK, it's your opinion, and I somewhat agree. US has been getting better marks in customer service, and, was down there in the dirt with AA not so long ago. I think they drug down the BA product in the alliance. But then, IB improved in the hook up. They're all working their way up to mediocrity, slowly but surely.

#4 Prices NEED to come up. They are artificially low due to a glut of seats. Airfares have not kept pace with inflation, or the cost of doing business.

#5 I'll bet that once inside the craft, at a ticket price they are happy with, most real airline customers don't remember what color the craft is, and don't care. The AA scheme is on it's way out anyway. Marketing, post BK, and operational needs will drive that. How about a white fuselage, with an Ionesphere blue and carribean blue stripe?

About the CLT HQ? Well, ........   



I don't understand everything I don't know about this.
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7226 posts, RR: 17
Reply 22, posted (1 year 11 months 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 15730 times:

Quoting SPREE34 (Reply 22):
#4 Prices NEED to come up. They are artificially low due to a glut of seats. Airfares have not kept pace with inflation, or the cost of doing business.

That's the last thing any consumer wants to hear. Prices rising = less people able to fly.



One of the FB admins for PHX Spotters. "Zach the Expat!"
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21529 posts, RR: 55
Reply 23, posted (1 year 11 months 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 15672 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 24):
That's the last thing any consumer wants to hear. Prices rising = less people able to fly.

It's tough love, though, and it's the truth. The airlines cannot keep going with the prices they're charging now. It's unsustainable.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlinemayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10351 posts, RR: 14
Reply 24, posted (1 year 11 months 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 15825 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 24):
That's the last thing any consumer wants to hear. Prices rising = less people able to fly.

There'd be alot more people unable to fly if AA folded. I've never understood why the "consumer" movement fails to understand that the airlines are a BUSINESS. They need to turn a profit to stay in business. They are NOT a public utility, able to stay in business regardless of whether they turn a profit or not, existing solely to provide transportation for the public as most metro transportation systems do. Without a profit, they can't fly or even order those shiny new planes that everyone seems to want. Without a profit, they can't do any of the upgrades to service that are needed.  



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
25 KDAYflyer : For me it is a service issue. The last 4 times I flew US, they lost my luggage each time. I did not have a pleasant experience in getting them back e
26 Mcoov : Ultimately, they both balance out. AA has the newer shorthaul and longhaul fleet with new B738s, A321s, B772ERs and B77Ws to be arriving very soon, w
27 hz747300 : Seriously though, it is not a right and if it means less people flying then that's the breaks. I think people forget that in addition to a likely "tr
28 spiritair97 : I have read my post, and there are not many flaws in it. Yes, I realize that I made a mistake about the HQ. My bad. Sorry. The fleet, Besides the 738
29 AvroArrow : FWIW I worked with/for a VP of tech for a major Texas based company who is big time STAR affiliated and has a major preference for US over CO and UA,
30 Post contains images CV880 : Yep, Greyhound & Trailways with wings got here faster than many of we "oldtimers" thought it would.
31 olddominion727 : @spiritair... I don't know how old you are or how long you've actually been flying commercial aviation, but at least for every one person that would
32 USAIRWAYS321 : Truth.
33 Maverick623 : As we've already covered the CLT HQ gaff, let's get to the other mistake you make: CLT is US's largest hub and is growing. It is sticking around. Peo
34 blueflyer : If I have to be selfish, I'd be opposed to any merger because I like US the way it is, I am on the record as being far less impressed with AA, and giv
35 DarkSnowyNight : Spirit does just fine with that. I don't like them very much, and I don't want this to be the case, but they may be onto something. For now, though,
36 HPRamper : Maybe on median age, but since AA has soooo many more "old" planes than US has - the MDs far outnumber the US 737 Classics - the impression is that o
37 koruman : I'm a resident of Australia who has elite status in OW and Star, and I buy probably 12 First Class tickets per year for domestic travel in the USA. I
38 spiritair97 : First, I did not mean thatthey would dismantle the hub at CLT. I meant, thinking that it was their HQ, that many jobs would be lost. Again, for the m
39 HPRamper : I'm not a huge fan of AA, but I have to say that every airline handles mail the same way as AA does. If it's not screened, that's on the USPS, not th
40 aztrainer : The LLC's will have their niche market shares, but what I think make people the most upset is the nickle and dimeing of the cost of travel. The age o
41 Post contains images AA94 : Both AA and US have issues with their workforces, no question. But if US can't even handle a crew list merge with HP, then why would we add a particu
42 B727FA : ANY business is only as good as my last experience with them. We have to re-earn every customer every day, every flight, every ticket. As has been sa
43 AAIL86 : This is a common theme we keep hearing, but I strongly disagree with you on this. It's very true that the Mad Dogs and 767s are older and lack many o
44 EWRandMDW : The difference is that the car can last many years and provide a lot of service, meaning a lot of trips, whereas an airfare increase will affect each
45 mayor : Blame the USPS, not the airlines. It is THEIR responsibility to screen those pieces of mail that QUALIFY for screening. Obviously, that person in the
46 B727FA : And you realize that when they're "...not always the cheapest..." it's because they've simply rolled "...all those g-damned fees" into the price. You
47 aeroblogger : My biggest qualm with the merger is that US would go to oneworld. I love Star Alliance and I love US Airways - I'd hate to have to pick.
48 WESTERN737800 : Exactly. The AA name has been around much, much longer than the US name. As a child I remember seeing AA planes, I don't remember seeing US airplanes
49 EWRandMDW : I do realize that WN factors many of these costs into their fare. However, I did a little experiment where I checked the UA and WN websites for fares
50 YYCspotter : I believe he is talking about the MASSIVE fleet of MD-80 series aircraft, and the smaller 762 fleet. i recognise that they have many aircraft on orde
51 Post contains links EricR : I think the big issue is that people are concerned with the level of quality as defined by the number of consumer complaints. US has historically had
52 FWAERJ : If FWA's next ASD is as good as his predecessor, I see a merged AA/US growing at my hometown airport despite the very different histories of AA and US
53 strfyr51 : The HDQ from Charlotte?? Last I knew the HDQ was in Phoenix When did that Happen?? US operational Control Center is in Pittsburgh and That will move
54 UALFAson : To go back to the original question, I think too many people are loyal to their favorite airline for whatever reason while also having another airline
55 questions : US is like airline meals. People hated them when the airlines served them. People hated the airlines when they took them away.
56 T5towbar : Labor is now not the biggest expense in the airline industry - FUEL is. And it's almost climbing to a quarter (or half) more than labor costs (which
57 Post contains images SPREE34 : Failing to merge the pilots falls on USAPA, not US management. US management's hands are tied by the law on that one. Research the Nicolau Arbitratio
58 DLMD90 : AA has loads of new planes and soon will have ALL new planes, you don't sound as if you know what you're talking about, the numerous times you compla
59 HPRamper : US has more old planes? I wasn't aware you had the ability to travel to another dimension where AA has the newer fleet.
60 SPREE34 : You think wrong. The data is out there if you look for it. Of course, after the merger it won't matter, they will have more combined older planes tha
61 Post contains images AA94 : Exactly. Agreed. It's an apples to oranges comparison. Very well said. I think it captures the feelings of AA loyalists and FFs very accurately. Unfo
62 DLMD90 : Many new are on the way.
63 crAAzy : As an AA FF and EXP I'm not opposed to a US/AA merger at all. As a matter of fact, I'm looking forward to a larger network on the east coast and more
64 LuisKMIA : I've flown 1.6 million miles with AA over the last 20 years and very few times on US Air. Strictly from a business customer perspective, I think AA of
65 HPRamper : Shouldn't be an issue with an airline of that size, DL has quite the mixed bag and does just fine.
66 mayor : Yes, it does seem to have worked out quite well with DL. You would have had a hard time convincing me of that before, but coming around.
67 aeroblogger : HP+AA pilots put together will be enough to vote out the USAPA. With that block gone, the lists can be merged relatively conveniently.
68 olddominion727 : @DLMD90 AMEN!!! PREACH!! LOL
69 SXDFC : I too hate to sound rude, but I agree with the other poster that says you are poorly informed.. Why I say this? You are basing your opinon off of a 6
70 SPREE34 : East pilot's wants will have little consequence. APA will be the majority, even without the HP numbers. McCaskill-Bond will frame the SLI process, it
71 CIDFlyer : I'll chime in here. I can see all US hubs, with only PHX being questionable, maintaining their current form. CLT may lose a little to MIA but I dont s
72 ckfred : 1. I don't trust Doug Parker. He started out at AA under Bob Crandall. Look what the Bob Crandall proteges (Carty, Arpey, and Horton) have done to AA
73 treebeard787 : I don't mean to nitpick but it's America West, you don't need the "N" at the end.
74 ckfred : Typo on my part. Sorry.
75 mayor : Looks dated, right now, if you ask me.
76 Post contains images DarkSnowyNight : AA is only less expensive (even factoring in baggage costs) when booked very far in advance, and then only only very few routings. They have an advan
77 art at isp : I am somewhat late to this party but here are my thoughts. Doug Parker has sold a bill of goods to AA unions, convincing them that he'd give them a be
78 jmc1975 : Beef would likely become an option as US currently offers just chicken or pasta on trans-Atlantic flights in economy.
79 PHX787 : The end result is a loss of jobs and severe cuts in C.S. It's not good in the long run. Not many people do. Here's how I see it: DL has ATL UA has IA
80 DeltaMD90 : I think something people get hung up about is that XXX carrier NEEDS a rockies hub, NEEDS a southeast hub, NEEDS ____ and every airline will have equ
81 PHX787 : Well that's what I'm focusing on. Besides some recent drawbacks at SLC, it seems like this hub system seems to work fine for DL and UA. I know it's a
82 Cubsrule : It depends on what you are trying to do. For secondary southeast markets to the west coast, for instance, they are often cheaper. True, but OTOH some
83 USAIRWAYS321 : I flew 2 West 319s last week. They were no treat, either. However, every major airline continually has a blend of aircraft coming and going. I have n
84 Cubsrule : I agree with that. And there's often little or no correlation between aircraft age and interior comfort. NW kept the DC-9s very comfortable (arguably
85 billreid : Interesting comment. I thought he signed a paper stating the contract terms already. If so then I think all is already in place from a labor perspect
86 billreid : Interesting thread.. I for one see AA as same ship new captain. So whats the difference for AA customers if its Parker, Horton, Arpy or Smith. If the
87 AirframeAS : Then whats your solution, PHX787? Prices must go up, with or without this merger. And as for the thread, I don't trust Porker (Parker), and I didn't
88 HPRamper : For AA there will be changes although they won't be as drastic as some seem to believe. AAdvantage won't be changing, alliance will stay the same, F
89 strfyr51 : I doubt that Parker and CO will be doing much more than providing direction. There WILL be an American exec at the operating helm because Parker's bo
90 AirframeAS : It needs to be someone else besides Porker.... They need a fresh face. Porker had done enough, time for him to move on.
91 Post contains images flyin5glow : The beef is in that instead of having healthy competition that will lower prices, a merger like this will create a huge airline that along with the ot
92 mayor : That would be collusion, wouldn't it? They can't do that.....all they can do is raise their prices and hope the other carriers follow along.
93 DeltaMD90 : What has Parker done wrong? Sure US may be considered the "runt" of the litter by some, and DP seems to have a large ego, but US is making a healthy
94 AirframeAS : Oh, nothing. I just don't like the guy and his ego. I don't like how he wants to merge with (nearly) everybody and be the only airline in the U.S. I
95 Post contains images PHX787 : this. He's unstable. I'd probably bet D.P. would wanna buy DL once all the crap with the US/AA merger is over with (exaggeration but you get my point
96 Byrdluvs747 : They wouldn't have to hope, as the other carriers will surely do the same. With only three major intl carriers this copycat collusion will now be eas
97 PHX787 : With 3 mainline airlines left in this country, it's gonna be more difficult for people to fly these days.
98 AirframeAS : I disagree. The consumer has been spoiled in the last 11 years of low fares. It is now time for the consumer to actually man up and pay what it costs
99 Cubsrule : But fares are only half the story. Capacity and frequencies have dropped almost everywhere. It doesn't matter that I'm willing to pay $2,000 to fly t
100 PHX787 : The customer isn't getting spoiled, it's getting screwed. Regular joes like me cannot fly often anymore because of 1) service cuts and 2) the fare ja
101 LAXdude1023 : CVG is the exception not the rule. Yes, airports like CVG, MEM, and ICT get hammered with high airfares, but airports like LAX, FLL, and BWI are slamm
102 Post contains images mayor : There's always Greyhound............... Even a seasoned businessman like your dad should realize that a company can't, continually, provide a product
103 DLD9S : How is it the consumers fault that they got used to paying cheap prices that airlines were offering? No one forced the majors to sell seats at those
104 mayor : It's not that they're at fault, but at some point, they're going to have to accept higher fares. With other expenses going up, you can't expect fares
105 Post contains images PHX787 : I don't have any access to DOT websites (nor know how to work them) so can some of you guys show me some of the fare comparisons to other majors arou
106 Post contains links LAXdude1023 : Here you go. Go crazy: http://www.bts.gov/programs/economic...vel_price_index/html/table_08.html
107 PHX787 : thanks! hm Maybe i can concede that fares in PHX are low....maybe it's because of WN's presence.
108 EaglePower83 : Seriously? I think you're dreaming. As fares go up and the make more profits, they're going to keep perks at bay because we've all gotten used to not
109 HPRamper : WN and previously HP have driven pricing in PHX for many years. The Southwest has long been a very strong territory for LCCs.
110 LAXdude1023 : I dont think its quite that cut and dry. I think a big part of it goes back to the nature of the air market in Phoenix. Its a very high volume low yi
111 Post contains images Maverick623 : US is making record profits, AA is losing billions of dollars every quarter... and Parker is the one with the issue? You do know Dougie started with
112 PHX787 : I saw a report somewhere a while ago that said that if JL or NH began 787 service that it would be "marginally profitable." what does that mean? like
113 N766UA : That's really an absurd oversimplification of what would happen.
114 Post contains images AirframeAS : I wished I was. If you take inflataion into account, a fare from 2000 was a hell of a lot more expensive than it was today, hence the fares are cheap
115 HPRamper : You mean turning what was pretty much the worst airline in the country in every way into a profitable and healthy one?
116 AirframeAS : Did you even read what I wrote? I don't like the guy, period. What part if that do you NOT understand?
117 HPRamper : I get that. I don't know him personally nor have I ever met him. No need to get hostile. You are the one who said you didn't like what he had done si
118 LAXdude1023 : HPramper has a point. Doug Parker and company did turn a s**t heap into a profitable airline. Thats not something to scoff at.
119 floridaflyboy : Oh dear god, I hate it when people here make up their own statistics. Do you care to share a source for that awfully specific number or are you just
120 bobnwa : Regardles of which airline began the route, it would not plan on having more passsengers originate in the US that originate in Japan. This is true of
121 Post contains images PHX787 : I have to give it to that crazy S.O.B. for that, but still we never know if it will work for a large combined airline like AA/US. Well I talked with
122 mayor : Enough to fill a widebody, a few days a week?
123 PHX787 : Well enough for a 767/787 IMO. You never know, especially if someone in town wants to sponsor the route. Given the connections opportunities here at
124 AirframeAS : I dont understand why you keep pushing the issue. I said my piece and be done with it. I don't want to see any U.S. carrier go out of business, inclu
125 Post contains links EricR : You continue to use this theory, but it is largely inaccurate as it relates to airfares in Phoenix. Take a look at the link you posted. There is a re
126 NWADTWE16 : Took all the words right out of my mouth.. USAIRWAYS is the better airline of the two in my book...but AA on its own is fine if they can do it, if th
127 skedguy : Actually, you aren't making an apples-to-apples comparison. Yes, in an absolute sense, DAL's summed average fare is lower than PHX's, but that's a by
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