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Is Southwest About To Max Out At Midway?  
User currently offlineGSP psgr From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 160 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 11 months 18 hours ago) and read 15097 times:

Given the finite amount of facilities at Midway and the rate at which WN has been growing, is likely that they're soon going to hit a wall in terms of the number of flights they can run out of there (leading to the recent growth spurts at STL and MKE)?

47 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineTWA902fly From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 3122 posts, RR: 4
Reply 1, posted (1 year 11 months 15 hours ago) and read 14688 times:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe they maxed out at MDW quite a long time ago. I believe given their amount of gates they are operating either at or near the maximum amount of flights.

'902



life wasn't worth the balance, or the crumpled paper it was written on
User currently offlineUnited787 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 2691 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (1 year 11 months 14 hours ago) and read 14566 times:

What is their current MDW market share? They could grow some more by just pushing the few remaining airlines out. Would be scary if WN was 100% of MDW flights...

User currently offlineflyiguy From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 1086 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (1 year 11 months 14 hours ago) and read 14529 times:

Currently other than WN, there is Delta, Frontier, Porter and Volaris. All others operate either solely at ORD or in conjunction. MDW for WN is currently at or close to the 250 flight mark per day.

FLY



The opinions I post are of mine and mine alone, not of the airline I work for.
User currently offlineinfiniti329 From United States of America, joined Jul 2012, 627 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (1 year 11 months 13 hours ago) and read 14332 times:

Quoting United787 (Reply 2):
What is their current MDW market share? They could grow some more by just pushing the few remaining airlines out. Would be scary if WN was 100% of MDW flights...

WN operates out of 2/3 concourses at MDW.. I would say they're market share is not 100% but in the high 90%


User currently offlineMexicana757 From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 3031 posts, RR: 29
Reply 5, posted (1 year 11 months 12 hours ago) and read 14058 times:

Quoting infiniti329 (Reply 4):
Quoting United787 (Reply 2):
What is their current MDW market share? They could grow some more by just pushing the few remaining airlines out. Would be scary if WN was 100% of MDW flights...

WN operates out of 2/3 concourses at MDW.. I would say they're market share is not 100% but in the high 90%

Southwest/Airtran have about 94% of the market share at MDW. According to BTS.gov WN has 90.1% and FL 3.3% share at MDW.

Quoting TWA902fly (Reply 1):
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe they maxed out at MDW quite a long time ago. I believe given their amount of gates they are operating either at or near the maximum amount of flights.

I'm sure WN could add more flights at MDW, combined with FL they have 32 of the 43 gates at MDW. The problem they have is not enough space for sorting bags from what I have read on here. This has caused delays in the past.

The resent build up at both MKE and STL is probably due to WN not wanting to put all their eggs in one basket in case there are storms that will cause major delays at MDW affecting otther flights through out the system. You can route passengers through both of those airports.


User currently offlinesteex From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 1610 posts, RR: 9
Reply 6, posted (1 year 11 months 12 hours ago) and read 14038 times:

Quoting Mexicana757 (Reply 5):
The resent build up at both MKE and STL is probably due to WN not wanting to put all their eggs in one basket in case there are storms that will cause major delays at MDW affecting otther flights through out the system. You can route passengers through both of those airports.

The STL/MKE operations aren't all about being a MDW reliever, WN is the market leader for O&D traffic in those cities too.


User currently offlineScottB From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 6712 posts, RR: 32
Reply 7, posted (1 year 11 months 10 hours ago) and read 12567 times:

Quoting GSP psgr (Thread starter):
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe they maxed out at MDW quite a long time ago. I believe given their amount of gates they are operating either at or near the maximum amount of flights.

No, not really. Even with just under 250 daily departures and 29 gates, they're still only operating a bit over 8 daily turns per gate, and that's below their typical target of 10 daily turns per gate. The MDW terminal has 43 gates and the other carriers use at most 6 gates. So there are still several unused gates at MDW (I believe the three-gate Concourse C has been closed-off) which would allow WN to expand service if desired. The airfield capacity is probably the key limiting factor since the IMC AAR is under 30/hour.


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22731 posts, RR: 20
Reply 8, posted (1 year 11 months 10 hours ago) and read 12502 times:

Quoting ScottB (Reply 7):
The airfield capacity is probably the key limiting factor since the IMC AAR is under 30/hour.

True, but that would still permit 300 plus WN flights over a more than 12 hour day.



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User currently offlineairliner371 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 1378 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (1 year 11 months 10 hours ago) and read 12300 times:

Southwest continues to add MDW flights slowly, I think they are trying to add flights but slowly to keep a track of when there start to be too many flight so they don't all the sudden over crowd the airport.

Keep in mind F9 now flies from C2 opening up one more gate on A.



You will either love or hate the airline industry. If you love it, it will get in your blood and it will never leave.
User currently offlineelbandgeek From United States of America, joined Jun 2008, 753 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (1 year 11 months 10 hours ago) and read 12216 times:

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 9):
Keep in mind F9 now flies from C2 opening up one more gate on A.

Already spoken for. The gate they were using was an FIS gate which F9 didn't need but WN/FL did for the new CUN flight and that's why they moved F9 over to C.


User currently offlineairliner371 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 1378 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (1 year 11 months 10 hours ago) and read 12165 times:

Quote:
Already spoken for. The gate they were using was an FIS gate which F9 didn't need but WN/FL did for the new CUN flight and that's why they moved F9 over to C.

You seem to know alot about MDW  , Is there room for DL to go to C as well or is that too much. Thank you.



You will either love or hate the airline industry. If you love it, it will get in your blood and it will never leave.
User currently offlineTbone354 From United States of America, joined Sep 2010, 76 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (1 year 11 months 10 hours ago) and read 12103 times:
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I do not know. Is it? Shoulda, coulda, woulda?

User currently offlinealggag From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 98 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (1 year 11 months 10 hours ago) and read 12105 times:

Speaking as a passenger I've started actively avoiding MDW unless I'm headed to Chicago itself. It used to be my favorite airport in the WN network but I am now turned off by how crowded the terminal is and the fact that the on time performance tends to be dismal late in the day.

Also, out of Houston MDW only makes sense for connections to a couple of cities that I so far haven't needed to go to.


User currently offlineairliner371 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 1378 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (1 year 11 months 10 hours ago) and read 11985 times:

Quote:
Is there room for DL to go to C as well or is that too much.

I can half answer my question, Delta operated one flights today from C1 but that was it, the rest were in A.



You will either love or hate the airline industry. If you love it, it will get in your blood and it will never leave.
User currently offlineMexicana757 From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 3031 posts, RR: 29
Reply 15, posted (1 year 11 months 9 hours ago) and read 11657 times:

Quoting elbandgeek (Reply 10):
Already spoken for. The gate they were using was an FIS gate which F9 didn't need but WN/FL did for the new CUN flight and that's why they moved F9 over to C.

  
CDA is creating room for future international flights out of the airport. Porter tends to use A3 a lot, Y4 and FL use A2 for their FIS arrivals. But A1 is needed when the Y4 flights are running behind schedule and A2 and A3 are blocked.

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 11):
You seem to know alot about MDW, Is there room for DL to go to C as well or is that too much. Thank you.

DL would have a hard time running all of their ops out of concourse C unless F9 is moved back to concourse A. Concourse C only has 3 gates. Not much seating in C. Jet Purple (Public Charters) tends to use C for their flights to MBS. Hard for DL to have all of their ops there unless the city expanded the concourse adding one or two gates. Even if they did I think C would make a better fit for the FIS facilities and common use gates.


User currently offlineMexicana757 From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 3031 posts, RR: 29
Reply 16, posted (1 year 11 months 9 hours ago) and read 11621 times:

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 14):
I can half answer my question, Delta operated one flights today from C1 but that was it, the rest were in A.

The flight that tends to operate out of C1 is usually the flight that RON's from DTW.


User currently offlineairliner371 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 1378 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (1 year 11 months 9 hours ago) and read 11584 times:

What are DL's actual gates not including common use or C.


You will either love or hate the airline industry. If you love it, it will get in your blood and it will never leave.
User currently offlineORD Boy 2 From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 285 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (1 year 11 months 9 hours ago) and read 11453 times:

The one thing that always gets me is that US, AA and UA never made a profit out of MDW. I would think UA could have flights to EWR, CLE, IAD and/or DEN. AA Could make it to LGA, DFW or MIA, and US to CLT or PHL pretty easily for feed to other flights, and they could get feed from the southern suburbs and western suburbs as well as NW Indiana without harming the main ORD station and hubs.

User currently offlineMexicana757 From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 3031 posts, RR: 29
Reply 19, posted (1 year 11 months 9 hours ago) and read 11375 times:

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 17):
What are DL's actual gates not including common use or C.

Delta gates are A5, A7 and A10.


User currently offlineairliner371 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 1378 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (1 year 11 months 9 hours ago) and read 11376 times:

Quote:
The one thing that always gets me is that US, AA and UA never made a profit out of MDW. I would think UA could have flights to EWR, CLE, IAD and/or DEN. AA Could make it to LGA, DFW or MIA, and US to CLT or PHL pretty easily for feed to other flights, and they could get feed from the southern suburbs and western suburbs as well as NW Indiana without harming the main ORD station and hubs

I would point you to the "Why No UA (or AA) Point-to-point Flights From MDW?" thread for more on that so this thread can stay on the topic.



You will either love or hate the airline industry. If you love it, it will get in your blood and it will never leave.
User currently offlineairliner371 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 1378 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (1 year 11 months 9 hours ago) and read 11323 times:

Quote:
Delta gates are A5, A7 and A10.

Thank you very much! So couldn't they move to the 3 C gates and use a common use gate if needed and move F9 back to A using one gate. That way WN can use 2 more gates. That is the most efficient way to use all the gates I can think of.

On another note, is there anywhere that gates can be expanded or a new terminal can be built if flights warrant it?



You will either love or hate the airline industry. If you love it, it will get in your blood and it will never leave.
User currently offlinestrfyr51 From United States of America, joined Apr 2012, 1091 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (1 year 11 months 6 hours ago) and read 9731 times:
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Quoting airliner371 (Reply 20):

Keeping an airline operating is not something taken lightly. If UA or AA split their operation like NYC between LGA. JFK and EWR there would have to REALLY be a pile of money in it because the fuel handling and space for parts and ground Equipment could cost more than it's worth to fly out of there. Frankly? there's no demonstrated NEED to serve MDW.
Everybody IN Chicago can get to ORD, By Bus ,Road, or Rail! ORD is WELL Served. Is this an Idle Speculation or are you making a case FOR MDW?? Frankly? The Gary Airport is closer to downtown than Midway is and Metra has some pretty good service in there as well.


User currently offlinemke717spotter From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 2443 posts, RR: 5
Reply 23, posted (1 year 11 months 6 hours ago) and read 9415 times:

Quoting strfyr51 (Reply 22):
The Gary Airport is closer to downtown than Midway is and Metra has some pretty good service in there as well.

It takes like 15 minutes to get from downtown to MDW on the Orange Line.



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User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15719 posts, RR: 26
Reply 24, posted (1 year 11 months 6 hours ago) and read 9346 times:

Quoting strfyr51 (Reply 22):
Everybody IN Chicago can get to ORD, By Bus ,Road, or Rail! ORD is WELL Served.

That's kind of part of the issue. Midway is closer to downtown and a bit easier to get to but a) not nearly everybody lives or works downtown, plenty of the northern and western suburbs would be better served by O'Hare or even Milwaukee and b) it isn't that far or difficult to get to O'Hare. Midway isn't like London City or YTZ. (Chicago did that. It didn't end well)



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
25 fghtngsiouxatc : The rumor everyone keeps hearing is that the city will be tearing down the old Odyssey Aviation building and the NG building when they vacate their ha
26 jcwr56 : Just a rumor, CDA right now has a severe issue with relationships between the airlines in general. Erin is running MDW ( and she doing a good job) bu
27 Cubsrule : As far as new carriers, that doesn't make sense. If the carrier is going to start CHI regardless, wouldn't the ORD carriers prefer that they be at MD
28 airliner371 : That seems like a small lot of land, is it and how many gates could go there?
29 knope2001 : For what it's worth, here are WN/FL departures by 30-minute blocks at Midway using a Thursday in late March: 0530 X 0600 X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X
30 jcwr56 : For Intl flights, Customs sees ORD and MDW as one. So while ORD is the preferred Port of Entry, Customs is pulling staff from ORD to handle the incre
31 wjcandee : People's respect ratings stay low when they just indiscriminately say stuff that is demonstrably untrue. From Google maps: from Downtown Chicago (545
32 Post contains images wnflyguy : There have been so many rumors about Who was going to get what gates. Old rumor Delta was moving to the C gates. WN was picking up 2 xtra gates. F9 mo
33 southwest737500 : I think CLT,MEM DCA and maybe TUL will see service from MDW CLT-3 flights MEM-3 flights DCA-2 flights TUL- 2
34 airliner371 : They have to be more competitive then this. I would expect something around 5 flights. Same with this one, they have to be more competitive then this
35 southwest737500 : I agree. Considering MDW is there largest focus city, they could easily have 5 flights and then it will funnel there other flights
36 ckfred : If there is no traffic on the Kennedy, ORD is slightly quicker to get to than MDW from the Loop. As many times as I've tried, I've never hit all of t
37 DeltAirlines : And where would Delta pick up extra gate space? There's no way Delta can make 20 daily flights (6 ATL, 8 MSP, 6 DTW) work out of 2 gates. As it stand
38 Post contains images wnflyguy : OK From my source said your right DL is not giving up A10. or A5 and A7. Plans WAS for DL to move everything to the C gates. F9 was going to move to
39 airliner371 : I could see that happening. They do alot of apple flying from there and it would make moving planes around alot easier.
40 Post contains images jcwr56 : That's correct They're ferrying planes from ORD/MDW/ORD on the off days there's no ops at ORD. Granted this is the "off" period for them until fall/t
41 bjorn14 : Yeah, I was going to make a joke that WN could expand to GYY but considering what strfyr51 posted it lost it's punch.
42 Flytravel : UA and AA have large ops at ORD where they compete. So neither wants to dilute it by going to MDW. US gets Star Alliance feed from ORD. For DL, there
43 fghtngsiouxatc : Come to think of it, I have seen a FL 737 parked at C3 a couple times these past few nights. Wonder if it's just for RON parking or if it's a permanen
44 Mexicana757 : We can also say the more airlines that want to operate international flights into ORD the more strain and longer wait times you will see. How many in
45 rwessel : 5454 East Wacker?! That would be six miles out into Lake Michigan. But assuming *54* E Wacker, which is somewhat close to the middle of downtown, the
46 jcwr56 : Correct, each airport has a specific amount of officers assigned to each and it appears, when flights are being adding at MDW, CBP are pulling those
47 Cubsrule : New flights haven't ever seemed to be much of a problem. Heck, when UA and AA added YXU and YKF in the not-so-distant past, both chose to have a flig
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