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Korean Air 747-8i Likely Routes?  
User currently offlineKaiTak747 From Switzerland, joined Aug 2012, 157 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 14121 times:

Korean Air has 5 747-8i on order, which I think arrive sometime next year.

Does anyone have any idea of what layout they will have? I'm guessing that they will be high Y, as their A380's are very premium heavy with the upper deck dedicated to business class ( and only have 407 seats!)

And for routes - any chance they will come to LHR?   

16 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinepoint2point From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 2740 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 14025 times:

Off the top of my head, I would think that ICN-ORD/JFK/AMS/CDG/SVO would be on top of the list. And I do believe that they are only getting five of them (anyone welcome to correct here if I'm mistaken) so with just the above choices - these planes will stay pretty busy.

After that, well....?

  


User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12857 posts, RR: 100
Reply 2, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 13915 times:
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Quoting KaiTak747 (Thread starter):
Does anyone have any idea of what layout they will have?

I would expect High premium. It looks like they are trying to stay under the 400 seat cap set by the Indian bilaterals. Since the Indian bilaterals limit the largest aircraft to the '747' (no sub-type specified), BOM would be my bet for the first destination.

Now the question is, with KE's small A380 and 748I fleets, which will they order next? I expect most growth to be the 787 (or smaller), but there will be substantial VLA growth. But which aircraft? That will be telling...

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently onlineHOONS90 From Malaysia, joined Aug 2001, 2999 posts, RR: 53
Reply 3, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 13776 times:
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I would put my money on the following:

ICN-NRT
ICN-HKG
ICN-KIX
ICN-BKK
ICN-ORD
ICN-LHR
ICN-CDG (Seasonal, when not operated by A380)
ICN-FRA (Seasonal, Currently A380 but switches over to 77W in the winter)
ICN-SYD
ICN-LAX (KE011)
ICN-JFK (KE085)

Doesn't mean that all will be served at the same time. When KE gets their first one, I am willing to bet that they will start with routes that only require one airframe. ICN-NRT (KE701, KE705) is a good contender for the inaugural, as is ICN-HKG (KE603, KE607).

[Edited 2012-09-04 12:27:31]


The biggest mistake made by most human beings: Listening to only half, understanding just a quarter and telling double.
User currently offlineKaiTak747 From Switzerland, joined Aug 2012, 157 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 13193 times:

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 2):
Now the question is, with KE's small A380 and 748I fleets, which will they order next? I expect most growth to be the 787 (or smaller), but there will be substantial VLA growth. But which aircraft? That will be telling...

Very good question! KE seem to have quite a large fleet mix, with both Airbus and Boeing widebodies. I would imagine either more 787-9 (they have 10 on order according to Wikipedia) or they're holding out for the 777-8X or A350. Interesting times ahead!


User currently onlineHOONS90 From Malaysia, joined Aug 2001, 2999 posts, RR: 53
Reply 5, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 13036 times:
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Quoting lightsaber (Reply 2):
Now the question is, with KE's small A380 and 748I fleets, which will they order next? I expect most growth to be the 787 (or smaller), but there will be substantial VLA growth. But which aircraft? That will be telling.

I would expect a top-up order for more 777-300ERs for now. The 744s are either retiring, getting converted to freighters or getting relegated to short haul duties, and the 777-300ER seems to be the most appropriate replacement for that.

In terms of smaller widebody aircraft, they recently took delivery of four A330-200HGWs and have another 7 on order, so that should keep them busy for a bit. They fly as far as Nairobi and Las Vegas and are also used for short haul flights to places like Shenyang and Changsha, so it's a very versatile aircraft for them.

An order for the 737 MAX 8 and 9 would not surprise me either.



The biggest mistake made by most human beings: Listening to only half, understanding just a quarter and telling double.
User currently offlinejcwr56 From United States of America, joined Jul 2012, 475 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 12881 times:

Interesting, ORD would make sense since the 380's are off limits right now at T5.

Between OZ and KE, the demand is there to upgage during certain times.


User currently onlineNewark727 From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 1332 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 12799 times:

In the past they've thrown everything but the kitchen sink at LAX, it wouldn't surprise me to see it there if only on a seasonal basis as an upgauge for some of their other stuff. Of course this may just be wishful thinking on my part, since I love me some 747-8.

User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12857 posts, RR: 100
Reply 8, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 12595 times:
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Quoting HOONS90 (Reply 5):
I would expect a top-up order for more 777-300ERs for now.

Agreed. However, long term I expect a VLA top off order. I'm a patient man. I would not expect an order in 2012 or even 2013, but eventually. I'm just curious if they'll top off the A388 or the 748I.   

Quoting HOONS90 (Reply 5):
An order for the 737 MAX 8 and 9 would not surprise me either.

I wonder if they will order that or first evaluate the C-series. Even if they do not buy any more C-series, it would be a useful negotiating tactic.

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlinecargolex From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 1259 posts, RR: 8
Reply 9, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 12531 times:

Quoting HOONS90 (Reply 5):
The 744s are either retiring, getting converted to freighters

I would say that there is zero chance of KE converting any 744's to freighters at this stage, with two 748Fs in the fleet already and more capacity in the form of the 777F coming online.


User currently onlineHOONS90 From Malaysia, joined Aug 2001, 2999 posts, RR: 53
Reply 10, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 12444 times:
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Quoting jcwr56 (Reply 6):
Interesting, ORD would make sense since the 380's are off limits right now at T5.

Between OZ and KE, the demand is there to upgage during certain times.

Definitely. OZ actually planned to increase ORD service to daily this summer, but they have a chronic shortage of long haul aircraft and were unable to do so. They'll have some 772s delivered next year, and I'm fairly positive that they will be used to bring ORD service up to daily. Right now, their 772s have incredibly tight rotations.

KE had an extra 3 frequencies per week to ORD not long ago, but I guess there weren't enough passengers connecting out of ICN in the morning departures bank for it to work. The existing KE038 flight arrives at ICN in the afternoon which provides connectivity to KE's extensive Southeast Asia network, and does much better for the airline

Quoting Newark727 (Reply 7):
In the past they've thrown everything but the kitchen sink at LAX, it wouldn't surprise me to see it there if only on a seasonal basis as an upgauge for some of their other stuff.

In a few years, I'd expect the following at LAX:

KE001/002 (via NRT): A330-200HGW
KE011/012 (late night departure/morning arrival): 747-8i or 777-300ER depending on the season
KE015/016 (seasonal extra frequencies): 777-200ER
KE017/018 (afternoon departure/afternoon arrival): A380-800
KE061/062 (onwards to GRU): 777-200ER

FYI, these are the current LAX flights:

KE001/002: Daily A330-200
KE011/012: Daily 747-400 (Soon to be switched to the 777-300ER)
KE017/018: Daily A380-800
KE061/062: 3x weekly 777-200ER

Quite a nice variety already!

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 8):
Agreed. However, long term I expect a VLA top off order. I'm a patient man. I would not expect an order in 2012 or even 2013, but eventually. I'm just curious if they'll top off the A388 or the 748I.

It's definitely possible for both, but it will probably be in very modest increments--kind of like AA's 77W orders. Either way, those old 744s will have to get replaced and the 77W might be too small or premium-heavy for certain routes that are flown with 744s today, such as Prague, Guam, Honolulu and Rome.

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 8):
I wonder if they will order that or first evaluate the C-series. Even if they do not buy any more C-series, it would be a useful negotiating tactic.

KE's 739 fleet is already stretched very thin after the last A300s have left the fleet, and they've also been adding a lot of new destinations lately, especially in Southeast Asia. I would surmise that KE could make use of at least a couple more 739 sized aircraft. I'm not sure how long the 737-900ER will be available with the MAX development in full force. Either way, the C-series would be complementing the strong 737NG fleet to start up more secondary destinations in Japan and China.

Even though KE makes parts for the A320neo, I'm not sure if that's enough for them to jump ship.



The biggest mistake made by most human beings: Listening to only half, understanding just a quarter and telling double.
User currently offlinegdg9 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 618 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 10072 times:

We will take it here in DFW!

User currently offlinen729pa From UK - England, joined Jan 2011, 389 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 7123 times:

Quoting KaiTak747 (Thread starter):
And for routes - any chance they will come to LHR?



I've got a feeling I've read somewhere recently that LHR would be getting the A380 before too long (ie within 6 months or so - after Paris anyway), so I'm guessing we won't see the KE 748 here unless there's an equipment change or something.


User currently onlineTC957 From UK - England, joined May 2012, 795 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 5706 times:

The daily LHR service is all 77W after 28 Oct for the foreseeable future.

User currently offlinesrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 5553 times:

Could we see potentially see the 748i on the ICN-ATL route at some point? I know KE is putting the A380 on the route in January for the daily service they have and the 777s will continue to operate the thrice weekly evening flight, but could KE potentially swap the A380 out for the 748i if they feel that it would be a better fit for them on the route (Or perhaps even the 777s used a few times a week into ATL?)? KE's use of the 744 into ATL seems to vary on the time of the year, as the afternoon ATL-ICN flight has switched between the 777 and the 744 depending on the time of the year.

User currently offlineKiwinlondon From New Zealand, joined Dec 2011, 63 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 5536 times:

How about ICN-AKL? Does anyone think this is possible as I know KE have historically flown the 744 on a seasonal basis.

User currently onlineHOONS90 From Malaysia, joined Aug 2001, 2999 posts, RR: 53
Reply 16, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 5365 times:
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Quoting srbmod (Reply 14):
Could we see potentially see the 748i on the ICN-ATL route at some point?

It's also a good possibility. Had KE not announced their plans to send the A380 to ATL, I would have put ATL near the top of my list. However, from what I've read and observed, KE's ATL route has very strong premium demand with very high fares in F and J, so I guess it will also depend on how the 748i is configured. The A380 is by far the most premium-heavy aircraft in KE's fleet.

KE's midnight departures out of North America aren't as busy as their afternoon flights, because it only provides limited connectivity at the ICN end, most of which are to smaller Chinese and Japanese cities. I would be very surprised if the second ATL flight gets a capacity increase.

The 744s are on their way out, so I'd expect to see more 77Ws and A380s at ATL for the time being. Even LAX will lose the 744 this fall.

Quoting Kiwinlondon (Reply 15):
How about ICN-AKL? Does anyone think this is possible as I know KE have historically flown the 744 on a seasonal basis.

It would depend on how the 748i is configured. If the economy class cabin takes up a good portion of the aircraft, I can see them using it to AKL during the warmer months.

Quoting n729pa (Reply 12):

I've got a feeling I've read somewhere recently that LHR would be getting the A380 before too long (ie within 6 months or so - after Paris anyway), so I'm guessing we won't see the KE 748 here unless there's an equipment change or something.
Quoting TC957 (Reply 13):
The daily LHR service is all 77W after 28 Oct for the foreseeable future.

The addition of LGW to KE's network made it a bit less likely for LHR to get 748i service from them. BA is also starting LHR-ICN service in a few months. Never say never though, international travel in and out of ICN has consistently been rising over the past several years, and the Korean community in the UK has recently grown substantially, surpassing Germany in terms of having the largest Korean community in Europe. I think capacity will only go up for the next several years.

Quoting gdg9 (Reply 11):
We will take it here in DFW!

I would expect KE to go daily at DFW first. It has been rumored a few years ago that AA would start DFW-ICN service, but nobody is holding their breath anymore, so maybe there's a chance for DFW to get the 748i in the distant future if KE top up their order. They can only fly to so many places with 5 airframes!



The biggest mistake made by most human beings: Listening to only half, understanding just a quarter and telling double.
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