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Frontier Giving Ground To Southwest In Denver  
User currently offlineazstar From United States of America, joined May 2005, 620 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 11 months 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 14597 times:

A Denver Post survey last year stated that 78% of DEN passengers rated F9 number #1 in customer service, followed by 38% for Southwest. So, why is Southwest clobbering Frontier in Denver? They pushed F9 out of the #2 spot a couple years ago.

"Frontier Airlines said Wednesday that its passenger traffic fell 8 percent during July from a year ago, following a similar decline in capacity."

Read more: Frontier Airlines reports decline in traffic, capacity in July - The Denver Post http://www.denverpost.com/breakingne...raffic-capacity-july#ixzz25XRGREvY
Read The Denver Post's Terms of Use of its content: http://www.denverpost.com/termsofuses

F9 is reducing DEN-ATL to once daily while WN is increasing capacity to 5 daily (that's a market which, I think,saw only 1 or 2 Airtran flights). WN has inaugurated DEN-SDF, DEN-DAY, DEN-CAK service, which F9 was previously dominant. Plus, WN has entered almost every market served by F9 with multiple daily flights while F9 keeps reducing their DEN service.

Why is DEN such a success for WN when the local population claims to favor F9?

[Edited 2012-09-04 14:30:50]

107 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25144 posts, RR: 85
Reply 1, posted (1 year 11 months 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 14579 times:
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Quoting azstar (Thread starter):
"Frontier Airlines said Wednesday that its passenger traffic fell 8 percent during July from a year ago, following a similar decline in capacity."

I could be wrong, but I would have thought the majority of that fall was because of the massive cutbacks at MKE and MCI.

Especially since the passenger decline exactly matches the capacity decline.

mariner

[Edited 2012-09-04 14:37:07]


aeternum nauta
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7888 posts, RR: 52
Reply 2, posted (1 year 11 months 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 14380 times:

Quoting azstar (Thread starter):
A Denver Post survey last year stated that 78% of DEN passengers rated F9 number #1 in customer service, followed by 38% for Southwest. So, why is Southwest clobbering Frontier in Denver?

Customer service isn't everything, it is one variable. Look at Ryan Air and how its doing... I doubt they're winning any customer service awards, but they're sure successful. Not trying to compare WN to Ryan Air, just saying customer service isn't everything. WN has a larger network and a more solid brand (IMO), maybe why they're doing better



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently onlineFL787 From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 1540 posts, RR: 12
Reply 3, posted (1 year 11 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 14304 times:

Quoting azstar (Thread starter):
A Denver Post survey last year stated that 78% of DEN passengers rated F9 number #1 in customer service, followed by 38% for Southwest. So, why is Southwest clobbering Frontier in Denver?

Well a couple things you need to keep in mind are:
-F9 and WN connect a lot of passengers through DEN so someone flying MSP-DEN-SNA probably isn't included in the survey.
-Routes have 2 ends. Maybe a survey in AUS shows that 78% of passengers prefer WN. So on AUS-DEN, who is really preferred?



717,72S,732/3/4/5/G/8/9,744,752/3,763/4,772/3,D9S/5,M8/90,D10,319/20/21,332/3,388,CR2/7/9,EM2,ER4,E70/75/90,SF3,AR8
User currently offlineN809FR From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 182 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (1 year 11 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 14264 times:

I think since Republic bought F9 there has been a massive decline in the local perception of the airline. I also think a lot of people are still tricked into believing WN is the cheapest in the market, which many times is not true. I personally fly Delta almost exclusively, I like their route network, and flew them for the first time after Frontier entered bankruptcy. I have yet to fly WN, and will not do so until reserved seating is the standard, but I do admire their business model and quite frankly am interested to see where they will go in the next 3-5 years.

User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25144 posts, RR: 85
Reply 5, posted (1 year 11 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 14091 times:
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Quoting N809FR (Reply 4):
I think since Republic bought F9 there has been a massive decline in the local perception of the airline.

Which may be true, but also may have reversed since Frontier - very publicly - announced a "return to Denver."

Frontier now flies to more destinations - from DEN - than at any time in its history and with record load factors. Better yet, in Q2, relieved of the burden of MKE, Frontier returned to profitability.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently online1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6490 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (1 year 11 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 14079 times:

It seems that the DEN's management as well as local Denver politicians are very pro-WN. This is probably why WN has taken much of F9's market share at DEN.


The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
User currently offlineADent From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1379 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (1 year 11 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 14069 times:

I am not sure why F9 surveyed so well.

The couple of sometime F9 fans around here stopped flying when they got rid of free bags and upped the miles for a free trip.

WN flies to more places, WN has better schedules, WN has free bags, WN has free schedule changes, WN doesn't have useless TVs that take up under seat room, WN has free inflight map (on Wi-Fi airplanes when you have your own device).

F9 has cute commercials. F9 is located on a closer in concourse. F9 has 10 min of free TV, then the screen turns into an ad.

Not sure who has the better loyalty program - both have had significant changes.

Looking at a trip more than a month out DEN-PDX the fares are the same. F9 tends to be cheaper closer in, though looking for the same trip in 10 days WN is a lot cheaper in this particular case.


User currently offlineairliner371 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 1380 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (1 year 11 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 14008 times:

Quote:
F9 and WN connect a lot of passengers through DEN so someone flying MSP-DEN-SNA probably isn't included in the survey.

While true, WN has the most Denver originating passengers of any airline in Denver. Even beating United.

Quote:
and will not do so until reserved seating is the standard

I feel like this is so over rated. It really is better then assigned seats when you try it but it gets bad press because people think "I don't have a seat or we won't sit together" but it really isn't like that. I respect your opinion though.



You will either love or hate the airline industry. If you love it, it will get in your blood and it will never leave.
User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 9, posted (1 year 11 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 13940 times:

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 8):
It really is better then assigned seats when you try it but it gets bad press because people think "I don't have a seat or we won't sit together" but it really isn't like that

With or without the seat assignments, you still have that "I don't have a seat" or "We won't sit together" problem either way. Trust me, I have seen it countless times on WN.

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 8):
I feel like this is so over rated.

N809FR is right though, and I agree.

Quoting ADent (Reply 7):
WN doesn't have useless TVs that take up under seat room

You only have that problem if you sit in an aisle seat.

Quoting ADent (Reply 7):
F9 has 10 min of free TV, then the screen turns into an ad.

The ads are only done immediately after take-off then you get the free "preview" (flip the channel to see whats on) until the FA's are done giving Summit, Accent members and Classic Plus and Classic customers their free TV then you lose the free "preview".

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 6):
It seems that the DEN's management as well as local Denver politicians are very pro-WN. This is probably why WN has taken much of F9's market share at DEN.

   This is no secret, and F9 knows it as well as the F9 employees.



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineKBJCpilot From United States of America, joined May 2012, 165 posts, RR: 6
Reply 10, posted (1 year 11 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 13766 times:

I fly out of DEN and when I have a choice I always fly F9 as long as the fare is within 15% of WN or UA. I get better service, the FA's and gate agents are friendlier, and I don't feel like I am stuck on Cattle Car Airways. I don't care if I have to pay for my IFE. And I am not stuck flying with the "Southwest demographic" where Budweiser seems to be the after shave of choice.

I may spend a little more but the customer service, clean planes, and friendly staff more than make up for it.



Samsonite, I was way off!
User currently offlineN809FR From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 182 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (1 year 11 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 13583 times:

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 8):
I feel like this is so over rated. It really is better then assigned seats when you try it but it gets bad press because people think "I don't have a seat or we won't sit together" but it really isn't like that. I respect your opinion though.

My personal feeling is, I shouldn't be required to check in as soon as it opens to get my coveted window seat. I rarely travel with anyone else, and being able to reserve a window seat in the back of the cabin is always nice to not have to worry about when heading to the airport. I will say, and this is where Delta has come through for me, getting a window seat in the front of the Y cabin on a tight connection is also nice, especially when I am connecting for an international flight in a relatively short time frame.

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 6):
It seems that the DEN's management as well as local Denver politicians are very pro-WN. This is probably why WN has taken much of F9's market share at DEN.

As someone who still wishes WN hadn't come to Denver, I find this situation very infuriating. It isn't as if Denver didn't have sufficient capacity prior to WN entering the market.

Frontier has long been given such a hard time by DEN airport management, I don't know who exactly has an axe to grind but it shouldn't be so apparent.


User currently offlineknope2001 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 2895 posts, RR: 30
Reply 12, posted (1 year 11 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 13499 times:

It's actually very simple. Frontier's capacity at Denver is flat, and they pack the planes to the gills. As Southwest continues to add capacity at Denver, Frontier's comparative share falls.

Frontier's overall capacity is decreasing, and in the current year-over-year period it's primarily MKE/MCI being pulled back and DEN being flat. In the near-medium future, a fairly modest reduction in total fleet capacity will mean total DEN capacity will likely slip a bit. And again, with Frontieralready packing planes pretty reliably, there's no room for Denver traffic to increase.

Frontier's Denver share of total DIA traffic doesn't really say a thing about Denver supporting or not supporting Frontier. Frontier excels at filling planes, and even if Denver travelers are avoiding Frontier (which I highly doubt) Frontier would still fill 90%+ of their Denver seats by deeper discounts and selling connections.

Frontier simply doesn't have the capacity to grow Denver at this point, and as such their comparative share will slip. And I don't expect any great efforts at this point to expand the fleet to grow Denver. That's because given the weak Denver fare environment, Frontier can't make money trying to be the higher-frequency airline targeting business travelers they once were. It's questionable if United and Southwest are reliably making money offering higher-frequency service targeting business travelers in Denver, but Frontier doesn't have the pockets to keep losing money in that fight. That's why we are seeing more cities but lower frequency, with packed seats but fairly tepid yields, on aircraft with low CASM to turn a profit.


User currently offlinetharanga From United States of America, joined Apr 2009, 1865 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (1 year 11 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 13440 times:

Quoting azstar (Thread starter):
A Denver Post survey last year stated that 78% of DEN passengers rated F9 number #1 in customer service, followed by 38% for Southwest.

I don't understand this number. shouldn't these add to 100%?


User currently offlineGentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3119 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (1 year 11 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 13404 times:

Quoting azstar (Thread starter):
Frontier Airlines said Wednesday that its passenger traffic fell 8 percent during July from a year ago, following a similar decline in capacity."
Quoting mariner (Reply 1):
I could be wrong, but I would have thought the majority of that fall was because of the massive cutbacks at MKE and MCI.

I would think 8% across all of F9 stations is manageable. If it was 8% at DEN alone I'd be a little more concerned. I would think MKE alone accounts for most of it.

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 6):
This is probably why WN has taken much of F9's market share at DEN.

I would guess it's more about frequency of flights. As a business traveler and consumer, where the fares are comparable I tend to pick a carrier with multiple frequencies. On leisure not so much. Keep in mind some F9 flights are LTD (less than daily) Two free checked pieces of luggage also plays into my decision process. WN is generally thought of as a breath of fresh air in this day of nickel and diming.



Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
User currently offlineNWADTWE16 From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 242 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (1 year 11 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 13408 times:

F9 is a great airline and obviously WN is in the business of 'Romneyism' at this time. They came in and destroyed FL under the propaganda they were creating a great 'new merged carrier' woohoo! Not so true is it..and i believe they have been out to destroy F9 in their own home when WN had no plans prior to hub there. They are willing, and can afford to bleed money until F9 is gone. The public should support F9 and recognize this is an attack. The more airlines we have the better and especially ones that provide a great product at great prices like F9. Ive NEVER understood why anyone likes WN anyway..seriously its the greyhound of the skies...i dont enjoy airplane bingo from cheezy FA's as entertainment in-flight and they also have planes flying around with a 'lounge' LOL in front..in other words seats facing back to everyone else in the plane..boy that must be fun..Long live F9 and (cheers to more profits)..WN should be ashamed and needs a 'real' computer system to be considered with the others in my book..flame away WN luvrs!!

User currently offlineusflyguy From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 930 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (1 year 11 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 13362 times:

Quoting NWADTWE16 (Reply 15):

The lounges went away over 10 years ago so you should probably refrain from airing an opinion regarding an airline when it's obvious you haven't been on it.



My post is my ideas and my opinions only, I do not represent the ideas or opinions of anyone else or company.
User currently offlineJONC777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 126 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (1 year 11 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 13342 times:

Quoting NWADTWE16 (Reply 15):

Gee you aren't biased at all are ya? The market is what it is. . .its just a business. . .


User currently offlineHPRamper From United States of America, joined May 2005, 4057 posts, RR: 8
Reply 18, posted (1 year 11 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 13287 times:

Deregulation at work....capitalism at its finest.

User currently offlineGentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3119 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (1 year 11 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 13275 times:

Quoting tharanga (Reply 13):
I don't understand this number. shouldn't these add to 100%?

Fuzzy math or one large curve. Trying to understand the numbers in aviation tends to make ones brain hurt.



Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
User currently offlineairliner371 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 1380 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (1 year 11 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 13197 times:

Quote:
Romneyism

I don't think this is appropriate. This entire website is airlines not your political opinion.

Quote:
Ive NEVER understood why anyone likes WN anyway

The same can be said about F9. Nothing makes F9 different. B6, VX, WN are all different. F9 is just an airline. The quote on the side of that plane is on the wrong airline. You may not be able to find out why anyone likes WN but more people in Denver choose WN then F9... That truly says alot.



You will either love or hate the airline industry. If you love it, it will get in your blood and it will never leave.
User currently offlinepar13del From Bahamas, joined Dec 2005, 7145 posts, RR: 8
Reply 21, posted (1 year 11 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 13190 times:

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 6):
It seems that the DEN's management as well as local Denver politicians are very pro-WN.
Quoting N809FR (Reply 11):
As someone who still wishes WN hadn't come to Denver, I find this situation very infuriating. It isn't as if Denver didn't have sufficient capacity prior to WN entering the market.

Frontier has long been given such a hard time by DEN airport management, I don't know who exactly has an axe to grind but it shouldn't be so apparent.

Since F9 was a local DEN carrier and WN had abandoned the DEN market years ago, the issue should be why did DEN management and local media turn against "their own" by inviting in and cozying up to WN. I don't think any carrier WN or otherwise would turn down the overtures because DEN already had a local carrier that the public loved.
Is this just another case of the authorities not representing the wishes / desires of the masses? I can understand the press as the "third estate" is always about their agenda and profits, but elected officials...........

WN as mentioned is continuing to grow DEN, its larger network means that in time connections alone could keep the service viable. Majority of DEN pax may still prefer and use F9 but unless WN decides to abandon a second time, its network size can sustain them in the market, now if F9 was continuing to grow a different situation would present.


User currently offlineairliner371 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 1380 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (1 year 11 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 13147 times:

Quote:
Majority of DEN pax may still prefer and use F9
WN actually flies the most Denver originating pax, more then any other airline in Denver, even beating United. Now whether the majority prefer WN is to be seen but the majority fly WN.

[Edited 2012-09-04 19:26:04]


You will either love or hate the airline industry. If you love it, it will get in your blood and it will never leave.
User currently offlineNWADTWE16 From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 242 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (1 year 11 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 13140 times:

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 20):
I don't think this is appropriate. This entire website is airlines not your political opinion.

Fair enough


User currently offlineNWADTWE16 From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 242 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (1 year 11 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 13106 times:

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 20):
Nothing makes F9 different

This is just absolutely not true, the in-seat AVOD, assigned seating, use of a major computer system (just like every other airline), these are three to name a few..have you ever had your WN flight cancel and you ask about being transfered to another carrier, even in the event of maintenance..how hard did they laugh?


25 Post contains images OB1504 : Or here in the states, compare NK's revenues with their perception among the public. My perception of F9 has definitely changed following the Republi
26 usflyguy : May have something to do with the fact hat the "hometown" carrier was bout and it's headquarters we're moved to IND and its MX was mocked to MKE. The
27 LV : I think F9 is an airline in flux and this is reflecting some of that. It is trying to transition from being a traditional hub and spoke carrier to som
28 mariner : I agree with much of what you say, except "the boys in IND" aren't in IND anymore. All of the executive positions are back in DEN, as are all but one
29 airlinewatcher1 : Honestly, both Frontier and Southwest are great carriers. I fly on both of them. There are things that I prefer about both airlines, but usually the f
30 onaclearday : I suspect that the powers that be in Denver and at DIA are making things as comfortable as legally possible for WN so that the much vaunted airline wi
31 Post contains images point2point : WIth the massive cuts at both MKE and MCI, and there being only about an 8% reduction in F9 operations overall, I think that in the meantime, F9 actu
32 mariner : I don't recall a day when Frontier was the "favored child" of DIA. Just out of interest, did you have a particular day in mind? mariner
33 Post contains images point2point : You overlooked this part, my friend.....
34 mariner : Well, not really, because - at least in some cases - we do know what happens behind closed doors. The notorious business of Frontier and the C gates
35 LV : Okay, so part of that is me being a huge LAS cheerleader. After all, my paycheck depends on a steady stream of tourists looking for a good time. That
36 mariner : It surprises me, too, because I don't recall Frontier ever serving PUB-LAS or announced plans to do so. Perhaps you mean DRO-LAS, which has since bee
37 airliner371 : But there are airlines with this as well. If I want AVOD I could choose DL, assigned seating any other carrier and multiple airlines have good res sy
38 cosyr : As a Denver local, I can say a lot has changed in the last year. Since the 90's United was terrible and many locals were thrilled at any opportunity
39 jporterfi : Has this worked for you when you were flying F9? I was under the impression that all airlines stopped doing this a long time ago, at the advent of e-
40 jfklganyc : "It seems that the DEN's management as well as local Denver politicians are very pro-WN. This is probably why WN has taken much of F9's market share a
41 CarsAir04 : But its just not WN. UA gets concessions all the time from Denver and DIA. When UA filed BK way back when. Denver forgave all sorts of rent and charg
42 strfyr51 : One thing you armchair CEO's seem to forget is that F9 only HAS 69 airplanes while WN has 700. UA can compete with WN but for what?? those who are bou
43 azstar : A few airlines don't have ticket agreements with each other. Spirit, Southwest, Jetblue are a few that don't, so if you're delayed or cancelled you h
44 mogandoCI : Since we're at the topic of DEN, how well (or not well) is UA holding up against this 3-way bloodbath ? Opening up DEN-NRT is definitely a positive de
45 PlaneAdmirer : You know I fly them once a month or every other month and I haven't noticed a change. I find the flight crews to be helpful, the customer service fol
46 bobnwa : [ It is possible that another airline received votes also,making up the 100%I
47 jfklganyc : "Spirit, Southwest, Jetblue are a few that don't, so if you're delayed or cancelled you have no options on other airlines. Southwest, at least, has a
48 azstar : Only with AA, I believe.
49 EWRandMDW : Trouble is that 78% (FL) + 38% (WN) = 116% which is mathematically impossible (you can't have more than everything!). Throw in a 3rd airline, and it
50 azstar : I was quoting from memory, which isn't the best, obviously. Although these figures aren't correct, F9 was in 70-78% range, and WN was possibly 20-30%
51 AirframeAS : They started the expansion a couple of years ago, but now they put it on hold citing WN saying something about being committed to the project or some
52 LV : You are right, I don't know why I thought PUB instead of DRO... my mistake. I'm not surprised it's been dropped already and since that is the case I
53 Post contains images mariner : I guessed it. MCO? Absolutely. Another city in Florida? Well, maybe, but not for this winter. RFD is ready to throw money at an airline - any airline
54 slcdeltarumd11 : I think the free luggage and no change fee is just the real reason southwest has been able to capture denver o&d so quickly. Definitely. Its diff
55 mariner : That doesn't account for Frontier's record load factors. High loads don't mean profit, of course, but obviously something is drawing people to the ai
56 Post contains images 135mech : It's easy to forget about that when discussing why airlines have struggled over the last 2 decades...but DEN really gouged the airlines for all of th
57 Post contains links KBJCpilot : Yes I have flown Southwest. Over 30 segments in the past 24 months alone and I've given up on them. You've been to the website www.peopleofwalmart.co
58 93Sierra : Are you saying wn has dirty planes..... Please stop chugging the cool aid
59 strfyr51 : as I read it ALL airlines are requires to re-route you at your request if they can't get you where you're going. EVEN WN.
60 Caspian27 : Does this statement take into account UAX? I would expect that when you count all UA CODED flights out of DEN the numbers would skew somewhat towards
61 azstar : True, but only on airlines they have an agreement with. WN will only reroute you over their own network since they have no agreements with any other
62 enilria : Hey, lets use actually data. Year-over-year change in departing DEN seats. F9 is shrinking in DEN... 2012 JAN -2% FEB -1% MAR -3% APR -3% MAY -5% JUN
63 airlinewatcher1 : I prefer Frontier's clean, relatively new fleet of Airbus 319 and 320 aircraft. I've personally never flown on the E-190's. I also prefer Frontier's l
64 ouboy79 : You could make the same argument for many airlines, especially in the back of the cabin if people can find a cheap seat. Personally I've ran into ver
65 PlaneAdmirer : That's absolutely true and if WN is successful in driving F9 out fares in Denver will be substantially just like they are in Houston a city dominated
66 Post contains links usflyguy : Check your data. You are correct in that IAH (#3) is one of the most expensive airports; unfortunately for you, WN flies out of HOU (#88) and not IAH
67 PlaneAdmirer : I am aware that they are seperate airports, however, they serve the same city. They have a duopoloy and despite WN doesn't seem to keep UA under cont
68 Post contains links GentFromAlaska : But the coin has two sides. Just yesterday I flew WN from PVD-BWI with a change of aircraft at BWI to BNA. Flight # 2007 ot of BWI was to continue to
69 usflyguy : Then you shouldn't use Houston in trying to make your point that if F9 goes away, fares would be substantially higher. These numbers are based on dom
70 mariner : I don't think so. I don't know if Winter is final yet, but with the rejigging of the fleet, I don't see how it can be. mariner
71 SANFan : But how much of these higher LFs at DEN is do to the fact that Past summers' schedules at SAN, including last year's, have seen about 6 daily (more-o
72 mariner : Hopefully, a lot of it. I've been saying this for a while now so I didn't think I needed to spell it out, but I guess I do. There is a new CEO charge
73 AirframeAS : Does WN even have its Aircraft Appearance department anymore? The last time I flew on a WN aircraft, it RON'd the night before in DEN for a SLC depar
74 enilria : Well, if we can't close the book on Spring 2012 being down in DEN for F9 capacity then when will be able to? It's already happened. Is it too soon???
75 mariner : Why so impatient about Spring? As I said, I don't think Winter is finalised yet. If your point is simply that Frontier will be down in DEN - for Spri
76 LoneStarMike : His initial (and subsequent) posts were talking about Spring of 2012 which has come and gone. I think that was his point. LoneStarMike
77 GentFromAlaska : MCO has certainly come on with a roar across the last six months. As simple math goes adding all the recent service in MCO would in my mind involve s
78 Post contains images point2point : Well, if I may add here, that Terminals A and C are not yet at full build-out. I believe that about 40 or so gates can be added here in total. The co
79 Post contains images mariner : LOL - and there I was, thinking it it was a typo. Since it named me, I couldn't think of any other reason for the post. I still can't, because the al
80 GentFromAlaska : Stupid, nah. I think the majority of us are opinionated in one-way shape form or fashion. I learned along time ago chats, forums and email are very i
81 mariner : A large percentage of the time that's true. But it isn't always true. mariner
82 airliner371 : Who does more advertising in Denver these days? With the Southwest Porch/Court/Ice Rink I would think SWA does more advertising but I could be wrong..
83 mariner : Southwest, famously, has a very large advertising budget at DEN. Frontier's advertising budget is very small by comparison. It is a much smaller airl
84 airliner371 : Albany is offering incentives for Denver and Houston.... What is the possibility of them actually getting Denver and which airline would most likely o
85 airlinewatcher1 : Southwest would seem like the most likely candidate for Albany-Denver service. I'd also like to see them try out Buffalo. Upstate New York is one of
86 GentFromAlaska : If my geography is correct with ALB a carrier also gets western Massachusetts which is a commutable drive. Around the greater BOS area I think it has
87 mariner : The northeast is a long way from DEN and uses a lot of fuel. With oil prices on the way up again and with the constrained (for the next few months) f
88 airlinewatcher1 : An A-319 or 320 is more than capable of flying this route; however, I agree that it may not be the wisest use of F9's resources.
89 mariner : Sure. DEN-ANC is further than DEN to anywhere in New England. But there's something else at work. For yonks people have been saying that DEN can't su
90 slcdeltarumd11 : I think southwest is the most likely to jump on DEN. They have successfully operated LAS for years now daily. Frontier seems to be focusing on MCO at
91 ScottB : I recall the deal that was done between DIA & UA to free up the Ted gates on concourse A for F9. I'm sure UA would have been happy to keep F9 bot
92 mariner : As I recall, it was a great deal for United. It got a $40 million regional jet facility. But aren't you saying - in your next bit - that airlines sho
93 ScottB : No, it applies to all carriers; the point is that DIA management did work for Frontier's benefit in freeing up the Ted gates for their use. So it's a
94 ytib : The regional gates on A were there a lot earlier than the gates in the 80's and 90's on B which is the new regional terminal. The only expansion the
95 Post contains images mariner : Frontier was only the beneficiary of what United wanted. After Ted, United haas even less need then previously for the A gates but did want the regio
96 GentFromAlaska : Having lived in the greater Boston area for five years and dealing with the horrendous bottleneck traffic With ORH being a good 1 to 1.5 hour drive f
97 AirframeAS : Mariner, are you talking about the AS gate at A51 and the FL gate at A53 in DEN? It really sucks how WN pushed AS out of gate A51, and I think that's
98 Post contains images mariner : If you mean this: Then I;m not. I'm going back in time, to those congestion creating - band aid - tube gates. But as I said, all's well that ends wel
99 ScottB : The issue isn't Bostonians driving to ORH; it is that B6 would almost immediately announce service from ORH on the same routes, just as they did when
100 mariner : That only became the issue later. The A extension was announced in the dying days of the Webb administration. As soon as Mayor Hickenlooper was sworn
101 airlinewatcher1 : I did a count on the DIA website, and Concourse A has 30 gates (not including the regional jet facility), and F9 uses 17 of those gates. The rest are
102 mariner : Now? Sure. I've no idea what the relationship is like now and I don't think it matters too much. The past is different. mariner
103 airlinewatcher1 : I guess I don't see how F9 not getting two gates on C way back when matters all that much either...I'm not sure if WN was in the picture yet or not.
104 Post contains links mariner : Southwest was in the picture. There's a very good overview in the New York Times of how it was in 2003, including some comments by Mike Boyd: http://
105 Antoniemey : If they were willing to expand the concourses outwards (without trying to extort money out of an airline as a condition of doing so) or extend the te
106 OB1504 : Not having a ticket agreement doesn't mean that a customer has no options in the event of a flight delay or cancellation. Spirit will simply go to Ka
107 azstar : This is a quote from their conract of carriage, which indicates they do NOT do what you suggest. Maybe it depends on the mood or magnanimity of the i
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