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QF & EK Announcement - 10am Aest 6/9/12  
User currently offlinetayser From Australia, joined Mar 2008, 1131 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 31933 times:

I know there's another thread, but today is the actual announcement - so no more need for speculation.

http://www.theage.com.au/business/qa...-seal-alliance-20120906-25fhm.html

Quote:
Qantas is finally set to ink an alliance agreement today with Middle Eastern rival Emirates aimed at stemming the Australian airline's losses on the highly competitive route between Australia and Europe.

After months of negotiations and endless speculation, Qantas will today unveil the terms of an alliance with Emirates on routes to Europe via Dubai. Qantas's chief executive, Alan Joyce, will front a media conference at a Sydney hotel at 10am, AEST, this morning.


[Edited 2012-09-05 16:03:55]

227 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineEK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 4919 posts, RR: 4
Reply 1, posted (2 years 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 31902 times:

Quoting tayser (Thread starter):

Lol I just posted this information in the other thread...

Cheers thanks for starting a new thread...

EK413



Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
User currently offlineSydscott From Australia, joined Oct 2003, 3063 posts, RR: 19
Reply 2, posted (2 years 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 31793 times:

I'm watching the ASX for an announcement. As soon as it appears I'll post it.  

User currently offlineNZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 6430 posts, RR: 38
Reply 3, posted (2 years 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 31647 times:

It's half up - titled "The world's leading airline partnership"... Hmm. The wait begins to be able to view it!


It's all about the destination AND the journey.
User currently offlineEK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 4919 posts, RR: 4
Reply 4, posted (2 years 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 31640 times:

Quoting Sydscott (Reply 2):

Any idea which channel will be broadcasting the announcement live...???

EK413



Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
User currently offlineSydscott From Australia, joined Oct 2003, 3063 posts, RR: 19
Reply 5, posted (2 years 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 31650 times:

Here we go everyone;

Text from the press release as follows;

SYDNEY, 6 September 2012: Qantas and Emirates today announced a new global aviation partnership that
will give their customers a seamless Australian and international network, exclusive frequent flyer benefits and
world-class travel experiences.1
Under the agreement signed this morning by Emirates President Tim Clark and Qantas Group CEO Alan
Joyce, Qantas will move its hub for European flights to Dubai and enter an extensive commercial relationship
with Emirates.
The 10-year partnership will go beyond codesharing and includes integrated network collaboration with
coordinated pricing, sales and scheduling as well as a benefit-sharing model. Neither airline will take equity in
the other.
Qantas will launch daily A380 services from both Sydney and Melbourne to London via Dubai, meaning that
together Emirates and Qantas will offer 98 weekly services between Australia and Dubai. Qantas will be the
only other airline operating to Terminal 3 and the new purpose-built A380 concourse at Dubai International
Airport.


User currently offlineaussieindc From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 437 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (2 years 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 31627 times:

Any ideas of online video or audio of the announcement?

User currently offlineSydscott From Australia, joined Oct 2003, 3063 posts, RR: 19
Reply 7, posted (2 years 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 31625 times:

Further from the release re FRA;

http://imagesignal.comsec.com.au/doc...9lcnJvcnBhZ2VzL3BkZmRlbGF5ZWQuanNw

Broader Qantas network changes
Qantas will restructure its Asian network to strengthen its focus on services to and within the region.
“We currently have an Asian flying schedule based on travelling via Asia to Europe,” Mr Joyce said. “But our
Australian business customers want better access to Asia, and we have been looking to address this for some
time.”
“With European services transiting through Dubai, Qantas’ Asian services will no longer be a subsidiary of the
‘Kangaroo Route’. Instead they will be dedicated to connecting Australians with our region, and Asian visitors
to Australia.
“We will increase dedicated capacity to Singapore and re-time flights to Singapore and Hong Kong to enable
more ‘same day’ connections across Asia. We believe this will significantly improve the economics of our
Asian operations.”
Qantas will also withdraw from the Singapore-Frankfurt route. While this service has been underperforming
for some time, and withdrawal was inevitable, the partnership with Emirates will enable it to take place with
minimal impact on Qantas customers.


User currently offlineNZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 6430 posts, RR: 38
Reply 8, posted (2 years 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 31622 times:

And QF and IAG to terminate JV as another announcement.


It's all about the destination AND the journey.
User currently offline777way From Pakistan, joined Dec 2005, 5716 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (2 years 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 31566 times:

So we have from South asian countries have another choice on DXB-LHR route besides EK, BA and VS?

User currently offlineSydscott From Australia, joined Oct 2003, 3063 posts, RR: 19
Reply 10, posted (2 years 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 31508 times:

Quoting 777way (Reply 9):
So we have from South asian countries have another choice on DXB-LHR route besides EK, BA and VS?

It will be a joint business operation with EK. So you could buy an EK ticket and end up an a QF A380 or vice versa.


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25369 posts, RR: 49
Reply 11, posted (2 years 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 31482 times:

Suppose a big finger to oneworld and BA.


However I commend Qantas for being willing to shake things up.

Also kudos for EK landing this significant venture under the nose OW and BA.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineAF Cabin Crew From French Polynesia, joined Sep 1999, 1040 posts, RR: 33
Reply 12, posted (2 years 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 31452 times:
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Quoting Sydscott (Reply 7):
Broader Qantas network changes
Qantas will restructure its Asian network to strengthen its focus on services to and within the region.
“We currently have an Asian flying schedule based on travelling via Asia to Europe,” Mr Joyce said. “But our
Australian business customers want better access to Asia, and we have been looking to address this for some
time.”
“With European services transiting through Dubai, Qantas’ Asian services will no longer be a subsidiary of the
‘Kangaroo Route’. Instead they will be dedicated to connecting Australians with our region, and Asian visitors
to Australia.
“We will increase dedicated capacity to Singapore and re-time flights to Singapore and Hong Kong to enable
more ‘same day’ connections across Asia. We believe this will significantly improve the economics of our
Asian operations.”
Qantas will also withdraw from the Singapore-Frankfurt route. While this service has been underperforming
for some time, and withdrawal was inevitable, the partnership with Emirates will enable it to take place with
minimal impact on Qantas customers.
Quoting NZ107 (Reply 8):
And QF and IAG to terminate JV as another announcement.

Maybe we'll see the end of the codesharing agreement with Air France as well particularly if QF changes the scheds between OZ and Asia.
Any info on that ?

Happy Flying,

AF Cabin Crew



Ia Maitai to tatou tere !
User currently offlineEK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 4919 posts, RR: 4
Reply 13, posted (2 years 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 31364 times:

http://www.smh.com.au/business/qanta...-seal-alliance-20120906-25fhm.html

So it's official with SIN no longer the flying Kangaroos Asian hub... Interesting move but certainly a smart move by the carrier with EKs network the options are immense...

Congratulations QF & EK...

EK413



Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
User currently offlinepesit4a From Ireland, joined Jul 2012, 119 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (2 years 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 31356 times:

Its quite simple - If you cant beat 'em - Join 'em.

Well done Qantas. A massive step forward.



You just can't keep a good man down!
User currently offlinetayser From Australia, joined Mar 2008, 1131 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (2 years 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 31341 times:

Links to ASX PDFs:

QF & EK - a new global partnership: http://asx.com.au/asxpdf/20120906/pdf/428jypv26mhylj.pdf
QF & IAG Terminate agreement: http://asx.com.au/asxpdf/20120906/pdf/428jyt6x6bwc21.pdf
CEO address: http://asx.com.au/asxpdf/20120906/pdf/428jyjy96m40nq.pdf


User currently offlineAirvan00 From Australia, joined Oct 2008, 758 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (2 years 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 31320 times:

The announcement is live now on ABC 24

User currently offlineaussie747 From Australia, joined Aug 2003, 1163 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (2 years 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 31226 times:

Quoting AF Cabin Crew (Reply 12):
Maybe we'll see the end of the codesharing agreement with Air France as well particularly if QF changes the scheds between OZ and Asia.
Any info on that ?

Yes all the QF codeshares into CDG and FCO will cease from 31MAR13


One question I pose is how will this benefit QF customers from BNE,ADL and PER. QF will still not fly to DXB from these cities only SIN and HKG(exc ADL), But there will be no QF flight or codeshare to London or Europe from here.

Once again yet another snubbing qantas who live in these cities. It just proves Qantas is so Sydney/Mebourne centric. An A332 can fly from PER to DXB and return no problem and the A332 is probably the same range from ADL-DXB as when QF used to operated the AKL-LAX services. Surely there is demand for the 744ER to operate BNE-DXB as well.

Once again these people from BNE,ADL and PER will be worse off. Not that QF currently gives them many good options to Europe compared to other carriers.

[Edited 2012-09-05 17:26:31]

User currently offlinetayser From Australia, joined Mar 2008, 1131 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (2 years 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 31203 times:

Start date looks to be April next year -

14x daily QF codeshared or operated services to DXB from MEL/SYD/BNE/ADL/PER.

33 European connections, 7 of which on 380s

Strategy complete for QF gateways: DXB for Europe, M.E. and North Africa, DFW for North America, SCL for South America, JNB for Southern Africa and SIN & HKG for Asia.

On Asian network: 25% more connections in SIN with retiming. 40% more seats available into Asia.

QF codes on EK flights to Asia, i.e MEL-KUL-MEL, MEL-SIN-MEL, SYD-BKK-SYD, SYD-SIN-SYD, BNE-SIN-BNE
_________

looks like SIN and HKG are going to be 330 land once JQ start getting their 787s - you'd hope the EK408/409 (DXB-KUL-MEL-KUL-DXB) get re-timed, I doubt many QF frequent flyers will want to depart MEL at 4am and fly in at 2am!


User currently offlineSydscott From Australia, joined Oct 2003, 3063 posts, RR: 19
Reply 19, posted (2 years 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 31172 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 11):
However I commend Qantas for being willing to shake things up.

Also kudos for EK landing this significant venture under the nose OW and BA.

To be honest, I doubt this will have much of an effect on British Airways. If anything it allows them to re-focus their operations on Asian O&D. What they do with their SIN-SYD service will be interesting however. I'd say they can retain it profitably but they won't have QF feeding into it at either SYD or SIN anymore. It also presses home the need for IAG to jump on-board with EK as well or form the muted alliance with QR.

Quoting AF Cabin Crew (Reply 12):
Maybe we'll see the end of the codesharing agreement with Air France as well particularly if QF changes the scheds between OZ and Asia.
Any info on that ?

No news on that but I think it's fair to say that the codeshare deal with AF fro CDG and CX to FCO are dead in the water. That traffic will now be on EK metal from April 1st, 2013. Whether or not AF and QF retain the interline agreement so QF provides on-carriage to AF passengers from Asia to Australia is a different question. We don't know the answer to that.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 11):
Suppose a big finger to oneworld and BA.

Not really. QF has always picked and chosen what it does with OW carriers. AA in North America, LAN in South America and heir relationship with JAL are all important still for QF's future as is the relationship with BA because alot of Australians still begin or end a journey to Europe in London and will require short hops on BA metal to and from Europe where EK doesn't fly. So they will still work together just not as closely.

If anything this gives Etihad and Virgin a bloody nose because the combined VA/SQ and Etihad network between Australia and Europe is vastly inferior to EK's. When VA said "Game On" don't think this is what they had in mind!

It also presents an interesting opportunity for American Airlines if i was to ditch Etihad and jump to EK. That would vastly expand their International presence as well.


User currently offlinetayser From Australia, joined Mar 2008, 1131 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (2 years 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 31174 times:

the 40% more seats into Asia is interesting. With the loss of 2x A380s into SIN every day, that's the equivalent of 6-8x daily 330 sized aircraft flying into Asia? or am I reading that wrong?!

User currently offlineManekS From Singapore, joined Oct 2008, 241 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (2 years 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 31143 times:

QANTAS - AIRFRANCE code share on SIN/HKG to CDG to end.
QANTAS - FINNAIR code share on SIN to HEL to remain.


User currently offlineSydscott From Australia, joined Oct 2003, 3063 posts, RR: 19
Reply 22, posted (2 years 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 31102 times:

Quoting aussie747 (Reply 17):
One question I pose is how will this benefit QF customers from BNE,ADL and PER. QF will still not fly to DXB from these cities only SIN and HKG(exc ADL), But there will be no QF flight or codeshare to London or Europe from here.

I think you'll find QF will code on virtually all of EK's services from all Australian cities they fly to. That will cover BNE, ADL and PER.

Quoting tayser (Reply 18):
looks like SIN and HKG are going to be 330 land once JQ start getting their 787s - you'd hope the EK408/409 (DXB-KUL-MEL-KUL-DXB) get re-timed, I doubt many QF frequent flyers will want to depart MEL at 4am and
fly in at 2am!

Agreed. I think there will be a comprehensive re-structure of all of EK's and QF's Asian and Trans Tasman services but we'll have to wait to find out what that will be. If anything I can see QF being a bit more aggressive in starting new Asian services now that they can focus on O&D rather than having to drive pax to connecting flights.


User currently offlinevhebb From Australia, joined Apr 2011, 185 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (2 years 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 31068 times:

Anyone know what the QF increased frequencies to Asia will look like?

User currently offlinetayser From Australia, joined Mar 2008, 1131 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (2 years 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 30959 times:

actually re: last comment, the extra capacity will no doubt come from the codeshares on EK planes.

I dare say they'll still keep dailies to SIN and HKG from all the big 4 + maybe increase ADL-SIN to daily.


25 Zkpilot : Most of the pax on the 2xA380 flights are going on to LHR. By switching to A330s that terminate in SIN it opens up a lot more seats to Asia rather th
26 commavia : Yep, just as QANTAS is apparently planning to do from the other direction. I agree that BA probably will still be able to make a single daily LHR-SIN
27 planesarecool : What does Emirates have to gain from this? They already have a massive stake in the EU-OZ market, why the need to jump into bed with a loss-making com
28 Zkpilot : Once they have bedded down the relationship, it will be interesting to see if QF and EK launch Jetstar Dubai... I'm sure EK could do it alone but ther
29 kiwiandrew : I have to admit that I am still puzzled by this. However, they are a pretty shrewd operator and they must feel that they gain something from this or
30 NZ107 : And they gave the finger to CX and their codeshare to FCO. Not surprising as EK doesn't fly to HEL yet. Or EK could just take control of Flydubai if
31 blink182 : But how would this be any different from FlyDubai, which is already EK's defacto shorthaul/low fare airline with routes like BEG and TBS? I don't kno
32 SCL767 : Is this surprising considering that QF will launch Jetstar Hong Kong?
33 Post contains links tayser : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ei4_0EK4xrg&feature=player_embedded
34 ikramerica : Removing a competitor means higher prices. It's basically a price fixing scheme. OZ pax will get screwed. It's not as if any more options are actuall
35 NZ107 : No it's not; however JQ HK still hasn't gone anywhere past the announcement stage. Who knows how long it'll be before they can start, if at all.
36 9MMPD : Whilst I am for anything to help an ailing aussie icon it will be sad not to see QF's beautiful A380s in Changi and I have always preffered transiting
37 allrite : Joyce talked about Singapore and Hong Kong acting as their Asian hubs. Who will provide the onward flights to other Asian destinations? Jetstar? Will
38 Post contains links tayser : Website up for the partnership: http://www.qantasandemirates.com/ I wonder if there'll be a rationalisation of lounges in AU, maybe expansion of first
39 thegeek : Access to the QF Frequent Flyer program is the only significant thing I can see. Currently, QF FF's have an incentive to avoid EK. There's also feed
40 sonomaflyer : For one, the additional QF capacity to Australia. There are only so many slots available for EK to fly between DXB and Australia. It also gives them
41 NZ107 : I wonder how long it'll take before EK starts pushing for codeshares to LAX. They've always wanted to fly their own planes from Aus/NZ to USA. This is
42 SCL767 : QF stated in its PR that it will use HKG as a "gateway"; which I interpret as a future hub for Jetstar Hong Kong. Meanwhile, CX/KA have been increasi
43 WSTAKL : Sorry for being lazy as I am sure this has already been mentioned, but when do these changes "go live" so to speak?
44 Quokkas : EK has not wanted to formally join an alliance like One World, Skyteam or Star, but it has entered into a number of alliances with airlines in the pa
45 Quokkas : Subject to regulatory approval in April 2013.
46 Lufthansa : i wonder if there are any implications for El Al in the Qantas frequent flyer program
47 koruman : No more Premium Economy to UK/Europe from Brisbane, Perth or Adelaide. That is a big, big call, especially when Virgin Atlantic, Air New Zealand and B
48 flightsimboy : Was that 14 flights daily from Australia to Dubai from 2013 between Emirates and Qantas? Is that any different from what Emirates already flies betwe
49 koruman : Not just that. In the liberal professions and the world of finance in Sydney, Melbourne, London and Paris there are very significant numbers of Jewis
50 Post contains images mariner : I know Australian and New Zealand Jews who have flown Emirates. There was the famous case of the Kiwi Jew who flew TT with Emirates, asked for a kosh
51 C010T3 : It's like KLM-Northwest all over again.
52 Post contains links and images Zkpilot : This is what JQ International could look like in a few years if EK got involved and JQHK happens.
53 Lufthansa : which is still a powerful model and working well today.
54 travelhound : Wow, what a network! Australia now has an airline that is capable of connecting to every part of the world. This is good news, not just for QANTAS, bu
55 monteycarlos : I wouldn't think that will happen. Qantas International are strongly committed to delivering the 'four-pillar' turnaround plan, and this is an essent
56 allrite : Joyce said that Emirates and Qantas would match service levels to whoever has the higher standard. So maybe Y+ for Emirates.
57 Lufthansa : Meaning an attempted at product consistency on the route, though undoubtedly he is talking a soft product. so fingers crossed this substancially incr
58 Post contains links Sydscott : For IAG this expands their options in the EK vs QR argument. It'll be interesting to see who BA eventually chooses. However I think the even more int
59 NZ107 : Though they're built for holding a lot of people and that's about it; referring to the J lounge here. But also there's no need for QF to build their
60 Bill142 : When have you ever been able to fly Premium Economy on QF from Perth or Adelaide?
61 koruman : As ever, Ben Sandilands is right on the money, if I may introduce a fair-use quote: ...................................................... "Under Alan
62 mariner : How does he know that? mariner
63 Sydscott : You mean more biased crap from him. The Qantas "virtual airline" has been in place for quite sometime and significantly longer than VA. Specifically
64 Lufthansa : Thanks for sharing...was an amazing read and confirms my suspicion that after QF has done some "resturcturing/house cleaning" at its long haul divisi
65 Post contains links and images monteycarlos : Not sure if this weblink has been posted already but here it is: http://www.qantasandemirates.com/ Interesting use of what appears to be the NATO 4 po
66 tayser : MEL: 3x daily (1x DXB-MEL, 1x DXB-KUL-MEL, 1x DXB-SIN-MEL) SYD: 3x daily (2x DXB-SYD, 1x DXB-BKK-SYD) BNE: 2x daily (1x DXB-BNE, 1x DXB-SIN-BNE) PER:
67 EK413 : EK has been looking at ways of increasing frequency on the OZ route and with this move they will increase flights to 98 flights a week & access t
68 CXfirst : They gain QF frequent flyers. They gain regional passengers, that would have booked QF to Europe, as they would have needed to connect with QF at one
69 QFVHOQA : This is a very good point, and I would not be surprised if that was the main goal of the agreement (from the DXB side). EK exists to grow Dubai Inc.
70 777way : Wish this had happened when the 747 was flagship of QF fleet, and it would have been great to see another 747 opetator at DXB.
71 Post contains images tayser : yep very good / interesting read... I especially liked the back-hander to AC and LH about being anti-Gulf and thought of the select few people on her
72 toobz : Very impressive. Flown QF - thought they were great. Never flown EK but hear they are good too. Does this change anything with AA?
73 fiscal : So, here are some questions based on PER 1. EK are supposed to offer FF seats from PER, but will they terminate in DXB? Who takes us onward to LHR for
74 Lufthansa : I really think this is going to be VERY popular with QF PAX who have long complained about wanting to use EK but not willing to forgo the Frequent fly
75 runzel : So from my home ports SYD & MEL to Europe & Middle East I can no longer see any reason at all to be involved with QF. The QF FF programme is n
76 Quokkas : 1. You will be able to use FF points to any EK destination. Your tier status will be recognised for the entire trip, regardless of which airline (QF/
77 Sydscott : Quote from the CAPA article; "Emirates CEO Tim Clark half-jokingly remarked the codeshare deal is made possible by “your love affair with a frequen
78 Lufthansa : Not FRA...I'd say Berlin. And here is why. Berlin is the largest city in Europe, with the Brandenburg /Berlin area home to about 6 million people. It
79 TWA85 : What are the odds that IAG will join this alliance?
80 Quokkas : This is something I do not understand. QF seem to be reducing flights on their own metal to Europe. How does this give greater access to to EK? EK ca
81 flightsimboy : Thanks Tayser. So basically just the new daily from PER and ADL , while the two QF LHR services now go via DXB that are the changes in Apr 2013.
82 fiscal : I wonder how long the approval process will take? There are more J seats on the 777 than the QF A330's, so maybe that is of benefit. I also note that
83 EK413 : Gives EK access to QFs frequent flyers on international and domestic sectors... Goes hand in hand with both carriers with QF passengers now able to a
84 tayser : In this instance, you'd book yourself on QF legs MEL/SYD to DXB then transfer to EK to wherever you're going if it's not LHR - DXB - Europe sectors a
85 Quokkas : I appreciate that part of things but was referring to access to rights that QF has and EK doesn't - e.g. EK can't fly to Berlin (as it already flies
86 monteycarlos : Low.
87 Lufthansa : Very easy. They don't even need to codeshare. All EK needs to do is onsell a QF operated flight at favorable prices, which can be part of a 'behind t
88 QFVHOQA : The possibility is that QF will be able to fly its own metal via DXB to cities that EK cannot, such as BER. This would allow QF to capture feed from
89 Richcandy : Hi A few years ago QF used to fly from LHR to SYD/MEL via HKG/BKK/SIN, so that gave passengers 3 easy stop over choices (if we just look at pure QF).
90 pilotdude09 : Around the time the A380 gate will be ready in Perth which Emirates has told Westralia Airport Corp to hurry the hell up with. For Perth it seems we
91 kiwiandrew : Of course if QF's rights into Germany specify that a certain minimum percentage of pax carried must be Australian originating this would limit the nu
92 Ben175 : I seriously doubt QF will axe both daily PER-SIN services, even without the European connections this leg is a huge market. I wonder what the re-time
93 Lufthansa : I haven't heard anything to that effect and my guess would be, based on the old Lufthansa routes to Sydney, probably not too many restrictions becaus
94 EK413 : You guys beat me to it... Even though QF has dropped the much speculated FRA route I believe QF will be returning to Germany utilizing the B787 in 20
95 Sydscott : I'd disagree, but will say that QF will fly where EK can't get rights to go. If the joint service gets more benefit our of BER that's where the servi
96 Quokkas : But there is the rub. QF won't be operating any flights to Germany or elsewhere in Europe other than 2x daily LHR. OK, at a later date they may revis
97 NZ107 : Yet they just threw away the early orders a couple of weeks ago and now have to wait longer! I love this Qantas mis-management and short-sightedness.
98 EK413 : & what's stopping EK from leasing QF a few B77Ws in the meantime enabling QF to reintroduce routes which have been dropped while providing EK the
99 Sydscott : The alliance won't be in place until April next year, the turn-around plan for QF International isn't due to start delivering results until 2014. So
100 LH422 : So sad that we'll no longer be seeing the QF 747 parked south of the runways at FRA every day. That plane made FRA a truly global airport in my eyes.
101 mutu : Virtually zero An EK tie up serves little benefit for BA' network. If MAS does end up stabilising its finances and joining Oneworld then BA has a par
102 LHRFlyer : Not true at all. First of all, IAG was told by Qantas that these discussions were happening before they were made public. I think the IAG statement w
103 seansasLCY : I disagree, it would bring in a large number of destinations. Guangzhou, Osaka, Manila, Ho Chi Minh, Kuala Lumpur, Phuket, New Zealand. It would work
104 allrite : I wonder what options Qantas might provide (eg via ff bookings on their website) for routings to Europe via Asia with thier OW partners. They may not
105 NZ107 : The 789s would have been ripe for delivery right at that time - 2014. NZ won't be getting theirs until mid-late 2013 and that'll be the first batch t
106 Post contains links mariner : I agree with that. As I said in the other thread, if you can't beat 'em, join 'em. I really don't understand the complaints from a few that Qantas is
107 Andrensn : Weird question for my end of year trip next year: Would this JV allow me to go WLG-SYD (QF) SYD-SIN (QF) SIN-CMB (EK) on one ticket? Thanks Andrensn
108 NZ107 : These can (nearly) all be served with current OW partners. CX and JL fly to KIX, CX is ideal for MNL, SGN can be done by both CX and MH, MH can do KU
109 mutu : Indeed. BA have stated they are looking at ne Asian routes and new "partner arrangements" to expand Asian network. They are not going to stand still
110 IndianicWorld : Interesting move. Thats a lot of capacity into DXB from Australia. Didn't think they would give up on SIN-Europe completely, but hey, it was time for
111 koruman : On reflection, there is scope within this for Qantas to really stitch up some secondary markets with their 788 fleet. Emirates already serve destinati
112 qf002 : I'm very glad to see this rumour come true! This should be an interesting partnership to observe and discuss... To all those questioning what QF bring
113 tim : In terms of the double daily PER-SIN-PER services industry rumour looks like one will be canned and they will leave a retimed existing daily 333 fligh
114 OzGlobal : Unfortunately, this looks like the best explaination of the move: QF cuts off a hemoraging limb, but retains a share of revenues from a more sustaina
115 NZ107 : Yeah, well what choice did they have? EBITDA(R) is where it's at - Revenue alone is irrelevant. Take it down to the EBITDA(R) and you'll see a substa
116 Lufthansa : I wouldn't bet on it. There are still something like 16 other carriers offering this one stop, and China Southern with massive growth plans in the ma
117 huaiwei : And how will that actually happen? From a Singaporean's perspective, the main negative development from this news is that we will no longer see QF A3
118 HELyes : Yes, talking about routes from UK to China, Japan, Korea the fastest routes usually go via HEL. Naturally it's a different situation flying from UK t
119 ADDICT4QF : Can someone clarify my understanding- QF is building a new First Lounge in Singapore, but as the A380s are not going to be used to SIN anymore, there
120 Lufthansa : In Cathay's case, very easy because I significant amount of its Euro PAX connecting from Australia pick it purely as a oneworld option that only invo
121 Bill142 : Yet when Virgin Australia did a similar thing it was applauded as Borghetti brilliance. Interesting.
122 Lufthansa : Borghetti has just been Guzzumped...and in a major major way. A combined QF/EK operation, early next year should see about 5000 seats a day to DXB. A
123 qf002 : The First Lounges aren't all about First passegners. I'd be willing to wager that the vast majority of visitors are actually status frequent flyers (
124 Post contains images r2rho : Indeed. QF needed this deal more than EK, who could have also just waited for QF to bleed to death on the Kangaroo route. The Middle East is the new
125 BoeingVista : My 5c worth, and I'm sure its been said before up thread somewhere, is that this is a f**k you very much from Qantas to any Australian who doesn't hap
126 qf002 : Another thought -- could we see new QF/EK lounges at LHR? The existing EK First Lounge looks like it is nowhere near as good as QF's F Lounges...
127 huaiwei : So OneWorld loyalists can still fly CX for the entire journey if they wish to transit via HKG, couldn't they? I still do not see much of an impact? P
128 emirates202 : I just hope I won't end up on a QF flight if I'm flying to SYD. I'm sure it will be a random flight number, like 9124 and say that it's a code share w
129 Post contains images VH-BZF : Good Call QF will definitely improve their offering into Asia from April 2013 with flights to both HKG and SIN allowing much better connections. Alwa
130 6thfreedom : I wonder how long it will take for the North QLD, Cairns and Darwin population, both big markets for UK and Germany to realise that the EK/QF codesha
131 Nimish : I presume a one-world FFP (say AY) would not earn miles/status on the EK operated legs flying say FRA-DXB-SYD (even if it were on a QF ticket and code
132 CXfirst : Wouldn't surprise me. QF currently use BA lounge at LHR. So, wouldn't be surprised to see them leave for EK, who might even create a larger lounge, o
133 Quokkas : Assuming you use EK's booking engine any codeshare flight will be clearly indicated. The flight number will appear as a four digit number with the fi
134 ElPistolero : This type of consolidation was bound to occur sooner or later, given the varying cost bases around the world. To the ubernationalists, I would argue t
135 tayser : The original AU-DE treaty is from 1959(!) - with MoUs in the mid and late 90s which presumably modernised the treat to allow the SYD-SIN-FRA flights.
136 ElPistolero : I wonder if the AC folk in YOW/YUL are preparing another press release on how EK has destroyed Australia. Haven't seen anything so far. Maybe they're
137 tayser : Other thoughts: Trans-Tasman - QF currently fly MEL-AKL-MEL 3x daily 738s (Jetconnect?), I wouldn't be surprised if the morning departure ex MEL and t
138 777way : Any chances of QF launching some OZ-Dubai terminator flights with 747 in the future?
139 mogandoCI : QF exiting SIN-LHR and downgrading SIN-SYD experience away from A380. SQ is the one popping the champagne.
140 BoeingVista : What a load of absolute garbage. But thats what I have come to expect from your replies, you never seem to read or understand the post you proceed to
141 tayser : Go back and re-read the thread, PER and ADL -are- getting more flights to DXB on EK metal - just in time for the proposed start date in April 2013. L
142 jetfuel : THIS is my single biggest concern. Many I know, including me, wont fly on EK's sardine 777. And 7 across in business class on the 777 with a very nar
143 TWA85 : Agreed! Although there is a lot of so called overlap between BA and EK, there is just as much if not more complimenteray parts of there networks. EK
144 Quokkas : This we do not know for sure. The speculation and rumour machine is now suggesting that the PER - SIN frequency will be reduced. If so, there is no o
145 tayser : and TG & CX! They now are able to market themselves as the only airlines to provide a seamless one-stop trip to Europe with a stop-over in Bangko
146 RyanairGuru : BoeingVista, this isn't about how many tails there are on the apron or how many lines on the route map, but rather providing flights to destinations t
147 tayser : Fair enough, but going by what was said today, focus is shifting away from South East Asia and into East / North Asia - i.e HKG. There might be a red
148 mogandoCI : QF could just as easily obtain the same feed from UA if they're willing to jump to Star Alliance. But they probably would have to first can EK before
149 mogandoCI : CX's feelings are mixed. On one hand, more oneworld purists would choose them over EK services. On the other, JQ is invading CX territory even furthe
150 LAXdude1023 : Star Alliance has nothing to do with this. Yes, BA and EK are not exactly friends but there is a pure hatred between LH and EK as well as AC and EK.
151 Lufthansa : bingo, and there is no reason to think AA would want that anyway. BA has been slowly reducing services to Australia for a very long time...but not ju
152 AIR MALTA : With the combined 7 daily LHR-DXB flights, QF is adding more competition to BA and taking pax away from their longhaul flights to feed EK at DXB as i
153 Post contains images lightsaber : Congrats to QF! They have finally committed to a strategy change that is far healthier than the status quo. I see huge room for growth for them once t
154 emirates202 : And what's all this about this (for example) EK flying SIN-DXB, and then QF flying DXB-LHR. EK isn't ending LHR service bc of the code share are they?
155 Post contains images lightsaber : This will be a nice boost for Dubai tourism and business. How many hotel rooms in Singapore are rented by QF passengers breaking up their transit? I'm
156 mogandoCI : Umm no. SQ is a major benefactor in QF ceding all SIN territory. Ending the JSA also means the BA-BKK-QF handover will be weakened too - benefiting T
157 LAXdude1023 : Nonsense. There is a lot more to OW than BA. Even then, BA doesnt seem pissed. They acknowledge that the QF/BA tie didnt work well anymore. QF's tie
158 LAXdude1023 : You misunderstood me. Let me try and be more straight forward. The odds of QF joining Star Alliance are zero. As much as BA and EK dont like each oth
159 Aither : SYD-DXB-LHR is less "half way" than SYD-SIN-LHR -SYD-DXB is 12000km. It's a verrrry long flight. It's bad for the pax. It's bad for the costs (you bur
160 Lufthansa : You have it. Hole in one. BA and QF are performing poorly in this market with their current arrangement, CX...as always continues to basically tolera
161 Post contains images lightsaber : I'm itching to know what new cities QF/JQ might launch to Europe from DXB! A non starter. That doesn't mean that QF wouldn't talk with UA if Qantas ha
162 Aither : You're right to a certain extend. But 75% of the demand or so is from London, Paris, ... to Sydney or Melbourne. This traffic was only making one sto
163 Post contains images lightsaber : Is it? FRA, LHR, and CDG should be the largest sources of demand, but 75%? I find that number extremely difficult to believe. Source please. How much
164 Post contains images huaiwei : You would probably expect me to tell you that this is happening because of Canada's regulated air market which removes potential major competition wh
165 Post contains images lightsaber : Search google news for the wall street journal article (WSJ links do not work well on a.net.) The venture will add pressure to Singapore Airlines Ltd
166 travelhound : QF do own two LHR slots that are currently on loan to other airlines. I suspect with this new deal QF will be looking at taking these slots back. The
167 mogandoCI : Glad to have people on this forum who knows actual figures instead of the typical parroting the spin propaganda from corporate HQ or straight-forward
168 Post contains links huaiwei : Well I won't expect an Engineer to fully understand the importance of reading a wider variety of sources. http://www.theaustralian.com.au/busi...mati
169 Post contains links mcogator : Looks like Dubai is doing really well as it is due to the Arab Spring and massive increases in South and East Asian tourists. http://www.nytimes.com/
170 Post contains images lightsaber : Then ignore me if the quality of discussion is not to your standard. In fact, we've discussed the same topic too often. Its rare that I find a corpor
171 RyanairGuru : I'm with you Lightsaber on this. While I can't find the source for this right now, EK have previously stated that their three largest destinations ex
172 Post contains links and images lightsaber : I'm surprised DUS, FCO, and GLA are not on that list. Of course, if they were, I would question MAN and ATH weren't (everyone has LHR on their list).
173 NZ107 : The thing is that if that fails, they (AY) can just up the codeshare through HKG and use CX as the feeder. And there's nothing saying that they won't
174 RyanairGuru : That's a very good point. Let's hypothetically say that a QFFF wants to go to Birmingham. Right now they would probably fly to LHR and pick up a car.
175 Post contains links david_itl : Market analysis for 2010. Breaks down LHR and MAN O+D - you can see the effect of EK allowing for a 1 stop choice to Australia from MAN compared to th
176 boysteve : Err in terms of pax numbers MAN is bigger than CDG and FRA, but on yield?
177 Post contains images lightsaber : Thank you. That link helps break down how entering secondary markets helps travel to Australia. NewCastle is in that report with 23.426 annual seats
178 Sydscott : That's the problem with Star in that realistically they can't. There is also the additional problem that, for example, to North America Air New Zeala
179 faz777 : One major concern of mine is the capacity of the existing DXB facilities. C3 (A380s) will be fantastic, and T3 is generally pretty impressive, yet ver
180 mariner : It seems to me that the alliances were designed for a different time. Qantas has effectively said that One World isn't enough and while I assume the
181 LH121GLA : GLA has had an evening flight since June 2012. Only NCL in UK has 1 x daily to DXB.
182 Aisak : There are some things that are not clear on this EK-QF tie-up and doubts don't go away by checking the FAQ on their common website: (the whole thing o
183 fiscal : That is indeed my concern as well. 10 across in a 777 is too tight for me, so any economy travel would be by another airline. As someone else pointed
184 pugsley : Im curious about the comment that service levels between the two carriers will be aligned. Does this mean QF will start offering limo transfers to F a
185 faz777 : 7 across in J class? I'm 200cm and fly regularly with EK and you barely even know you're next to another passenger, I think its a bit rich having a g
186 Post contains images lightsaber : As excited as I am about this strategic change, someone please explain to me why the first day of implementation will be April Fools day?!? Lightsaber
187 Post contains images allrite : That way if the regulators don't approve then Qantas and Emirates can claim to have launched the biggest April Fool's joke in the world. That's got t
188 Post contains links and images Quokkas : From EK's website; "Emirates and Qantas will work together to ensure a seamless customer experience, including mutual lounge access, shared use of Em
189 QF15 : Im interested to find out if QF will start BNE-DXB with the B744 in place of the current BNE-SIN?? (unlikely imho) ...or whether EK will just add anot
190 allrite : As Scoot doesn't interline with SQ the passengers may as well fly on JQ from CNS and book the SQ flight separately. I know my backside wouldn't want
191 Sydscott : This seems to be a perfect Silkair route..........
192 smi0006 : Is this a reconfigured 744? It is mentioned that there will be a significant shuffle of aircraft and routes in SIN and Asia, I wonder if the 744 allo
193 Sydscott : There are A330-300's on both MEL & SYD to PER domestic runs alongside some International A332's. I think that once the 787's start arriving at JQ
194 fiscal : Lets hope you are wrong about this. With only a fraction of the J seats of the a330, I don't think it would go down well. It would have to be my most
195 Bill142 : Really? I see more destinations available to QF as a result of this.
196 airnewzealand : Yes QF will be offfering this service to all First and Business passengers on flights over 12 hours from April 2013. Cheers
197 Post contains images CXfirst : Or better yet. When the regulators don't approve, Qantas and Emirates can continue their partnership, and claim that they thought the regulators were
198 fiscal : That would be right. Snub Perth passengers again where we have just under a 12 hour flight.....
199 Post contains links carryon : Haha we all know how much Qantas enjoys dallying with international business ventures that go nowhere. I think one of the important changes is that i
200 RyanairGuru : Well given that PER is going to be operated by EK, how is QF not offering limos in any way snubbing PER?
201 Post contains links Quokkas : If you book a flight in J/F with an EK coded ticket you will be entitled to a chauffeur drive to the airport and a car to your hotel or wherever at y
202 SInGAPORE_AIR : Why is that a worry may I ask ?
203 vhtae : I am so looking forward to and excited about this alliance. These two carriers are my preferred when traveling domestically and internationally. The E
204 mdavies06 : However, January is a peak travel season for the Dubai and non peak in Japan, France and US! How many daily flights would this implies - the two new
205 dcaviation : wow QF sold its soul to the devil. the funny thing is that the biggest losers will be Australian flying public. No more competition. Pricing will be s
206 TruemanQLD : When you are competing on probably the most competitive route in the world (in terms of no. airlines), 2 joining together isn't exactly the end of co
207 jetfuel : Do you have any idea how many airlines fly to Australia, especially to Europe?
208 jetfuel : SQ and Tiger are probably the most threatening/hated airline if you talk to Qantas
209 EK413 : Cheers... And the Australians will be the biggest losers why?!$&@&$!? Hmmm... Services to DXB from SYD, MEL, BNE, ADL, & PER with a gatew
210 Post contains images lightsaber : Nice play. But it isn't just two flights to LHR. It will be other flights from Australia feeding EK's extensive network. Perhaps my numbers are a lit
211 qf002 : Also KE, OZ, TG, EY, QR, CA, BR, SA, AC, UA, DL, MU, JL etc -- though this isn't limited to just SYD. There most certainly will continue to be cheape
212 LH121GLA : I may have missed it from above but is there any indication yet of what will happen to EK's Trans Tasman services?
213 Post contains links and images mariner : There's one small benefit to the DXB service - in many cases the British APD - Airport Departure tax goes down: http://www.theage.com.au/business/qa..
214 LH121GLA : Yes, like the article states, for those spending +24h at the hub point. For those in transit at DXB it will not make one little bit of difference.
215 Post contains links mariner : Every little helps. I see that Qantas has confirmed the chauffeur service, too: http://www.voxy.co.nz/business/qanta...ces-new-chauffeur-service/5/13
216 Viscount724 : At least 18 carriers can offer one-stop connecting service between Australia and Europe via Asia on their own metal (not counting codeshares), plus a
217 Viscount724 : Which was a highly-successful venture. I'm sure you can do that today. Almost all major carriers have interline ticketing agreements with all other m
218 ikramerica : How do they define a high percentage? Compared to what, zero?
219 Viscount724 : I have no data but I would guess the percentage of EK passengers UK-Australia that spend 24 hours or more in DXB between flights is in the low single
220 mariner : The opposite of a "low" percentage, perhaps? Almost everyone I know (which is still a low percentage) traveling from NZ to London with Emirates choos
221 tayser : The reduction in competition arguments are laughable eh! I'll attempt a fairly detailed analysis with the two end points of MEL and LHR - despite the
222 CXfirst : The beauty with the kangaroo route is that it does require one-stop no matter which way you go, and that creates a lot of options. In comparison, tran
223 Post contains links cam747 : May I also add myself to the list of a.netters who think this is a ridiculous and ill-considered comment. The Kangaroo route is one of the most compe
224 escapehere : For EK, perhaps MAN is bigger than CDG, but I doubt it is for the entire Australian market. As far as I'm aware, flying to MAN one stop from Australi
225 jetfuel : Reality is QF used to operate to MAN, so it is an important market
226 CXfirst : That's a very Australian point of view. Remember, the kangaroo route goes both ways. I would predict that there more people living in MAN wanting to
227 Post contains links srbmod : Please continue the discussion here: QF & EK Announcement - 10am Aest 6/9/12 Part 2 (by YankeesFan Sep 7 2012 in Civil Aviation)
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