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747-8i With World's First Aeroloft  
User currently offlinecosmofly From United States of America, joined May 2009, 649 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 26512 times:

Finally something real to see. Very nice indeed.

http://www.bornrich.com/worlds-aerol...ionizes-vip-flying-experience.html
and
http://www.ausbt.com.au/boeing-s-bes...xury-loft-of-a-private-jumbo-747-8


Also it seems LH is getting 90% load factor on their 748i

http://travel.usatoday.com/flights/p...t/2012/09/lufthansa-747-8/837296/1

41 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBEG2IAH From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 898 posts, RR: 15
Reply 1, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 26031 times:
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For some reason I read B748i Aeroflot. That would be a sight to see.


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User currently offlinegr09 From Czech Republic, joined Jul 2008, 115 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 25975 times:

Quoting BEG2IAH (Reply 1):
For some reason I read B748i Aeroflot.

Me too! haha

Anyway the lofts look amazing!

As for the 748, it's nice to see they are doing so good but who would doubt about that, LH is a master of their business. Shame though they could not make the new business class product ready for the A380 already...


User currently offlinetonystan From Ireland, joined Jan 2006, 1397 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 25876 times:

Wasnt the lofts just a marketing tool and no one seems particularly interested?


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User currently offlinena From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10369 posts, RR: 11
Reply 4, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 25283 times:

Looks great. Why doesnt an airline install it? That way they could put 4 - 8 more seats in F/C, as flat-beds there wouldnt be necessary anymore if the rich pax have proper beds directly behind (if other than with LH now the F/C would be on the upper deck).

Quoting BEG2IAH (Reply 1):
For some reason I read B748i Aeroflot. That would be a sight to see.

Yeah, that would be great to see. Shame they opted for the comparatively boring 77W.

But there is indeed a typo in the article. The pictures are labelled with "Aerosoft"!


User currently offlineBirdwatching From Germany, joined Sep 2003, 3769 posts, RR: 51
Reply 5, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 25203 times:

Looks nice, but how are the upstairs areas evacuated? Wouldn't that be an issue? You'd be very far from the exits.

Soren   



All the things you probably hate about travelling are warm reminders that I'm home
User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12065 posts, RR: 52
Reply 6, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 24677 times:

When is LH going to get their next B-747-830? When does KE start getting their B-747-8B5s? I know KE Cargo has already taken delivery of 2 B-747-8B5Fs.

User currently offlineAirbusA6 From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 2004 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 24620 times:

Did you see the link to the crew area upstairs on the 777 (CX 77W ).

http://www.ausbt.com.au/the-best-sea...7-300er-try-the-upstairs-bunk-beds

Fascinating how it has its own emergency exit down to the main cabin, above seat 65G through a fake overhead luggage locker!



it's the bus to stansted (now renamed national express a4 to ruin my username)
User currently offlinebikerthai From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 2013 posts, RR: 4
Reply 8, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 24551 times:

Quoting Birdwatching (Reply 5):
Looks nice, but how are the upstairs areas evacuated? Wouldn't that be an issue? You'd be very far from the exits.

These lofts are for in flight use only - I don't believe they are designed to handle crash load when occupied. For take off and landing (emergency type situation) all occupants returns to their seats.

Quoting na (Reply 4):
Looks great. Why doesnt an airline install it?

Does anyone know if these lofts displaces the stowage bins? If this is the case then that may be the reason why the lofts are offered for BBJ only.

bt



Intelligent seeks knowledge. Enlightened seeks wisdom.
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 29700 posts, RR: 84
Reply 9, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 24176 times:
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Quoting tonystan (Reply 3):
Wasnt the lofts just a marketing tool and no one seems particularly interested?

They were marketed to 747-8 Intercontinental operators and potential customers, but it does not appear to be of interest to them.

At least a few 747 VIP customers are installing them.



Quoting Birdwatching (Reply 5):
Looks nice, but how are the upstairs areas evacuated? Wouldn't that be an issue? You'd be very far from the exits.

They are not occupied during takeoff and landing.



Quoting bikerthai (Reply 8):
Does anyone know if these lofts displaces the stowage bins?

I do not believe it does. On the 747 VIP frames, there are no stowage bins because they are unnecessary. In their place, blank panels are installed that allow more ceiling room.

[Edited 2012-09-06 07:35:30]

User currently offlineordjoe From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 658 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 24117 times:

This has always been talked about, I believe even VS considered this back in the 90's (the idea of private bedrooms). If F class has a hard time selling, I would imagine these lofts would be even more so. The people who could afford these lofts probably can afford private aircraft travel.

User currently offlineN766UA From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 8095 posts, RR: 24
Reply 11, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 23774 times:

Quoting bikerthai (Reply 8):
Does anyone know if these lofts displaces the stowage bins? If this is the case then that may be the reason why the lofts are offered for BBJ only.

I believe this area is a crew rest on the standard 748, so while the "loft" isn't offered, the area still exists.



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User currently offlineFI642 From Monaco, joined Mar 2005, 1079 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 23162 times:

The crew bunk options on the 787 are really amazing. Good use of crown space!


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User currently offlinetdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 80
Reply 13, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 22642 times:

Quoting tonystan (Reply 3):
Wasnt the lofts just a marketing tool and no one seems particularly interested?

No. People are buying them, so at least some are interested.

Quoting Birdwatching (Reply 5):
Looks nice, but how are the upstairs areas evacuated? Wouldn't that be an issue? You'd be very far from the exits.

You're just above the main deck; there are exit doors all along the main deck. The evacuation methods employed for existing crew rests are fine for in-flight use in the loft.

Quoting bikerthai (Reply 8):
Does anyone know if these lofts displaces the stowage bins?

On a 747 it shouldn't; the crown space is big enough. On a 787 you do lose the bins below the crew rests when they're installed. I'm not sure about the 777.

Tom.


User currently offline777way From Pakistan, joined Dec 2005, 5716 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 22257 times:

Why cant this space be used for a passenger cabin on commercial aircraft.

User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 29700 posts, RR: 84
Reply 15, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 20164 times:
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Quoting 777way (Reply 14):
Why cant this space be used for a passenger cabin on commercial aircraft.

Passengers can be located there, but not during take-off and landing due to their being only a single evacuation path (down the stairs). As such, Boeing pitched that area as beds for premium cabin customers (allowing conventional seating to be used in the main cabin as opposed to suites) but I am guessing passengers preferred staying in their suites (if Boeing had polled me, I'd prefer a suite I can sleep in than a nice seat and having to go back and upstairs to sleep).

Because the 747 was certified with passengers in the nose and passengers on the upper deck when regulations allowed only a single-evacuation path from those areas, the 747 can continue to have passengers in those areas. (I do not know why the two emergency exit doors were added to the 747-300 - perhaps due to distance from the front rows to the aft stairs?).

The 747 was not certified with passengers in the aft fuselage, so I expect such a configuration cannot be grandfathered in and emergency exit doors and slides would need to be installed and that would require significant structural changes.

[Edited 2012-09-06 09:23:27]

User currently offlinebikerthai From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 2013 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 19601 times:

Quoting 777way (Reply 14):
Why cant this space be used for a passenger cabin on commercial aircraft.

The crash load requirement for an occupied loft may be more than the existing structure can handle.

The loft is basically held on the the upper crown using a bunch of tie rods. Anything more substantial may cause unwanted load interaction between the fuselage and the loft.

bt



Intelligent seeks knowledge. Enlightened seeks wisdom.
User currently offlineKaiTak747 From Switzerland, joined Aug 2012, 156 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 19557 times:

I really don't think they are a good idea. I think most people would get quite claustrophobic, considering there are no windows.

User currently offlineSSTeve From United States of America, joined Dec 2011, 641 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 18245 times:

This (admittedly old) article and diagram make it look like the fairing diagram make it appear that the lofts sacrifice bin space:
http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/fl...oeings-skylofts-gets-new-bert.html
http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/flightblogger/closeoutfairing.jpg

Something that might be acceptable over business class seats, but it would be tough to forgo those bins over economy.

I do wonder, though, whether there's room for a full-height passageway and bunks without giving up the bins.


User currently offlinetdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 80
Reply 19, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 17549 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 15):
Passengers can be located there, but not during take-off and landing due to their being only a single evacuation path (down the stairs).

There should be multiple paths; even the overhead crew rests have multiple paths. The 787 crew rest has a takeoff rated seat in it and two exits, even though it's designed for 3 people maximum.

Tom.


User currently offlinejustloveplanes From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 1005 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 16906 times:

Quoting cosmofly (Thread starter):
Also it seems LH is getting 90% load factor on their 748i

What was LH's load factor prior to the 748i? Any information?


User currently offlinebikerthai From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 2013 posts, RR: 4
Reply 21, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 16673 times:

Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 19):
The 787 crew rest has a takeoff rated seat in it and two exits,

Tom,

Please expound. Can someone sit in those seats during take off and landing? Or is it only the seats are rated but not the seat installation?

bt



Intelligent seeks knowledge. Enlightened seeks wisdom.
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 29700 posts, RR: 84
Reply 22, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 15553 times:
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Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 19):
There should be multiple paths...

There could be. The CGI only shows a single staircase, but it could be omitting other escape paths.



Quoting SSTeve (Reply 18):
This (admittedly old) article and diagram make it look like the fairing diagram make it appear that the lofts sacrifice bin space:

Those appear to be specific to the 747-8 VIP, which has no need for overhead bins. Hence the closeout fairings.

I've been unable to find one for the 747-8 passenger model, but the Boeing 763-246C VLA Concept had an OSU and also had overhead bins.


User currently offlinetdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 80
Reply 23, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 15354 times:

Quoting bikerthai (Reply 21):
Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 19):
The 787 crew rest has a takeoff rated seat in it and two exits,

Tom,

Please expound.

The 787 has two optional crew rests, an OFCR (Overhead Flight Crew Rest) at the forward end and an OFAR (Overhead Flight Attendant Rest) at the back end.

The OFCR has two bunks and one takeoff rated seat. It has two exits; the stairway and an escape hatch under one of the bunks that comes down through the ceiling.

The OFAR has six bunks and no seat. It has two exits, of very similar design to the OFCR.

Quoting bikerthai (Reply 21):
Can someone sit in those seats during take off and landing?

There is just one seat, and yes. The basis idea is that you don't have to use a revenue seat to handle the flight crew; with ~18hour endurance, the 787 is capable of lots of missions where you need four flight crew, plus a potential examiner/check airman/other 5th person. There are four seats in the flight deck; having the takeoff rated seat in the OFCR means you don't need to block out a revenue seat.

Quoting bikerthai (Reply 21):
Or is it only the seats are rated but not the seat installation?

The seat and the installation are takeoff/landing rated. As far as I know, the 787 is the only Boeing that's doing this so far.

Tom.


User currently offlineAAMDanny From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2008, 338 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 12179 times:

Quoting KaiTak747 (Reply 17):
I really don't think they are a good idea. I think most people would get quite claustrophobic, considering there are no windows.

I think they are a great idea. More space created = more rev. And if You get claustrophobic, then just don't go up there.

Also in my opinion (but the opinion of someone that sleeps in the loft of the 747 every week) these bed's would be great to sleep in as they all have the head end forward and not aft. I always find I achieve a much better sleep when I have my head forward to the aircraft, as the aircraft flies slightly nose up, if I'm trying to sleep with my head aft facing I feel like I'm sleeping with my head up. I know it sounds strange but until you experience it it's weird.

So if I was paying for F, I'd rather a nice F seat (and on a commercial side an Airline could fit more in) and then go up there to bed. Plus, if fellow Pax want to wine and down in F/J it would not disturb the passenger that want's to have uninterrupted rest.

I read somewhere on here Boeing was looking at the idea of moving Galleys to the upper deck and installing cart lifts to make extra space for more revenue seating.


25 tonystan : Only people who can afford a 747-8 as a private jet! More money then sense. It was pushed at the airlines who have pretty much shunned both the cabin
26 Post contains links and images readytotaxi : Cnn have picked up on it now. http://edition.cnn.com/2012/09/07/tr...business-beds/index.html?hpt=hp_c3 Nice to know that there is always someone out
27 bikerthai : If you are mega rich, would it make sense if your security detail gets good rest while traveling? If you are mega-rich it makes perfect sense to prov
28 Post contains images Stitch : And if you are using your 747 as your lodgings while on the ground, you'll likely want your staff and security detail with you on the plane rather the
29 Post contains links and images cosmofly : Articles says "Boeing said of the nine Aeroloft-modified BBJ aircrafts that have been sold to date, all are for destined for undisclosed head-of-stat
30 Post contains images readytotaxi : None in the Euro Zone, that's for sure.
31 ghifty : What's the point of the Aeroloft? I'm sure a 747-8i has enough room for bedrooms on the main deck.. or upper deck. This is one of those rare gimmicks
32 Stitch : Yes it does, but by not using main deck space for them, it allows that space to be used for other functions. A 747 VIP is a flying mansion. And like
33 kanban : You can stick your chef or doctor up there .. so they're rested when needed
34 777way : Kuwait, Qatar for sure and possibly Saudi, one is definitely for Kingdom Holdings but cannot be included in the heads of state category.
35 Post contains images lightsaber : I think the posters are onto something when discussing the Aeroloft as 'staff sleeping arrangements.' When I looked at the video, I wanted to find a c
36 bikerthai : The sky loft type configuration have been around for a long time with the 777 crown crew rest. Boeing have been trying to sell this as an option for
37 Post contains links cosmofly : I believe the loft is between door 4 and 5 and in front of the crew rest. I suspect there may be a door from the loft area to the crew rest area as s
38 motorhussy : Wow, impressive! But can't imagine a commercial operator using the Aeroloft! in this day and age of in flight security issues. Having even first class
39 PC12Fan : It's valuable unused space. Why not use it?
40 bikerthai : The video seems to suggest that the skyloft, crew rest, and all the other types of crown suites can run all the way to the tail of the aircraft. Very
41 tdscanuck : Class-of-service alone would dictate that you'd never leave first class passengers without a flight attendant in easy reach. Tom.
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