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US Requests CLT-LHR And PHL-LHR #2  
User currently offlinewn676 From Djibouti, joined Jun 2005, 1000 posts, RR: 5
Posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 11777 times:

http://www.philly.com/philly/busines...air_travel_through_year_s_end.html

Quote:
US Airways has petitioned the European Union to add an additional flight each day from Philadelphia to London's Heathrow Airport and to begin new service from Charlotte, N.C., to Heathrow.

Should they end up with the slots, this would bring PHL-LHR up to a total of 4 flights between BA and US, and I would guess that this would also spell the end of LGW ops for US.


Tiny, unreadable text leaves ample room for interpretation.
32 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinesouthwest737500 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 11710 times:

Awesome, I always thought LHR was a better fit from CLT

User currently offlineripcordd From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 1126 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 11629 times:

Better fit for OW when they switch

User currently offlinewill777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2009, 174 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 11500 times:

Awesome! Glad to see that they want to add an extra flight from PHL!

User currently offlineflyingcaT From United States of America, joined May 2007, 527 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 11440 times:

Makes sense however given BA/LHR politics I don't see how they will get more slots.

Do they have a source for new slots?


User currently onlineN62NA From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 4268 posts, RR: 6
Reply 5, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 11420 times:

Quoting ripcordd (Reply 2):
Better fit for OW when they switch

Yes! But they would acquire all the AA slots anyway.


User currently offlineFI642 From Monaco, joined Mar 2005, 1079 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 11011 times:

BA used to file each day for the extension BWI-CLT-BWI to keep route authority. Looks like OW will be flying it again soon!


737MAX, Cool Planes for the Worlds Coolest Airline.
User currently offlineEK36 From Singapore, joined Sep 2012, 5 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 10432 times:

Great news for CLT, im sure it will see a daily BA777 once it becomes a OW hub

User currently offlineGCT64 From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2007, 1324 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 10352 times:

Who have they "petitioned" for the slots? "We did submit an application to the European Union slot trustee on Aug. 23 requesting that slots be allocated for proposed new service"

I thought you either had to acquire slots from an incumbent or apply through ACL for slots to be allocated (which won't be successful unless you want the few unattractively timed slots free).



Flown in: A30B,A306,A310,A319,A320,A321,A332,A333,A343,A346,BA11,BU31,B190, B461,B462,B463,(..50 types..),VC10,WESX
User currently offlineFlyCaledonian From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 2050 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 10167 times:

I don't get this. Why is US petitioning the EU? When open skies came in all the carriers moving ops from LGW had to acquire their slots, some from partners (DL from AF, NW from KL). The only slots that AA/BA had to give up was to allow compeition on BOS (2x daily), MIA and DFW - and then only if a carrier applied to operate those routes. DL did this, and get three slot pairs for LHR-BOS (2x daily) and LHR-MIA, but has since handed two of the slot pairs back to BA/AA.

If US/AA merge, then the combined carrier would add LHR-CLT anyway, and would have three flights per day on LHR-PHL too. If anything, conditions the EU might impose on a AA/US merger (because of the AA/BA ATI deal) would be that a new carrier wanting to operate a LHR-PHL flight would have to be provided with slots at LHR similar to any carrier wanting to operate to DFW, MIA or BOS.

I can only think that US is trying to get LHR slots ahead of a AA merger, and that it partly expects to have to surrender a slot from the JV pool anyway, so why not try to ramp things up first. Does anyone know if US's existing LHR slots for the PHL-LHR flight are owned, or leased from a partner in Star?



Let's Go British Caledonian!
User currently offlinejumpjets From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2012, 705 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 10105 times:

Quoting GCT64 (Reply 8):
"We did submit an application to the European Union slot trustee on Aug. 23 requesting that slots be allocated for proposed new service"

I think the slot trustee is the official dealing with the reallocation of the slots BA has had to surrender following its acquisition of BD. Maybe US think that it might be possible for some of those slots to come their way. If they do think that I fear they will be disappointed as the EU ruling on the BA/BD combination clearly specified the eligible routes for which the slots surrendered were to be used - and none were in the USA.


User currently offlineskipness1E From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2007, 3090 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 10093 times:

This would be a second daily LHR-PHL and LGW-PHL being transferred to LHR? I doubt they'd stay at LGW.

User currently offlineHPRamper From United States of America, joined May 2005, 3971 posts, RR: 8
Reply 12, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 9186 times:

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 11):
This would be a second daily LHR-PHL and LGW-PHL being transferred to LHR? I doubt they'd stay at LGW.

If US and AA end up together, having a token LGW wouldn't hurt. They would of course be huge at LHR but still keep a presence at the other major airport.

If US goes on alone, then yes I would think moving completely to LHR would be the better option.


User currently onlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7331 posts, RR: 24
Reply 13, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 9125 times:

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 12):
If US and AA end up together, having a token LGW wouldn't hurt. They would of course be huge at LHR but still keep a presence at the other major airport.

BA could not make JFK-LGW work and AA has never been interested in LGW once LHR opened up.

If/when US/AA merge, there will be no LGW in their network.

I am glad to see they want to move the CLT flight to LHR. Thats a better fit. Ironically North Carolina and Florida are the only states that have service to both LHR and LGW.



Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently offlinebrandonfsu05 From United States of America, joined Aug 2009, 151 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 9046 times:

Just speaking strictly if US goes it alone.........

I'm curious whether LHR would capture the traffic that US mainly focuses on...a lot VFR traffic...for people preferring LGW over LHR, it would seem that gives US a more unique traffic flow to the US from UK. US usually chases the price sensitive tourists...Besides the local traffic...lots usually connect to Florida/Vegas/Phoenix.

PHL I guess from the article has extensive business contacts with UK. I'm not too familiar with UK business contacts in CLT area.


User currently onlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 16990 posts, RR: 48
Reply 15, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 8996 times:

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 13):
BA could not make JFK-LGW work and AA has never been interested in LGW once LHR opened up.

No one is interested in LGW once they're able to move to LHR, maybe except for EK but I have my doubts.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineIrishAyes From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 2092 posts, RR: 15
Reply 16, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 8948 times:

Quoting FI642 (Reply 6):

BA used to file each day for the extension BWI-CLT-BWI to keep route authority. Looks like OW will be flying it again soon!
Quoting EK36 (Reply 7):
Great news for CLT, im sure it will see a daily BA777 once it becomes a OW hub

Let's not get ahead of ourselves...

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 12):
If US and AA end up together, having a token LGW wouldn't hurt. They would of course be huge at LHR but still keep a presence at the other major airport.

There's no reason for CLT to be connected to LGW. Gatwick is used primarily as a leisure-oriented airport compared to Heathrow. CLT has strong banking/finance ties and a nonstop flight to LHR would be a huge boon for the Queen City.



next flights: msp-phx-slc, msp-mdw, ord-sju, sju-dfw-ord, msp-dfw, dfw-phl, phl-msp, jfk-icn, icn-hkg-bkk-cdg
User currently offlinebobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6347 posts, RR: 9
Reply 17, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 8520 times:

Quoting southwest737500 (Reply 1):
Awesome, I always thought LHR was a better fit from CLT

How are you determining that LHR would be a better fit than LGW. Obviosly thwere is no historical data to support that idea


User currently onlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 16990 posts, RR: 48
Reply 18, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 8379 times:

Quoting bobnwa (Reply 17):
How are you determining that LHR would be a better fit than LGW. Obviosly thwere is no historical data to support that idea

Well, close to zero carriers have switched from LHR to LGW, so the likelihood that LGW is better for anything other than vacationers going to AGP is nil.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24363 posts, RR: 47
Reply 19, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 8076 times:

Unless you are carrying English track suit crowds from Orlando, LHR is the far better revenue London airport versus LGW.

Being a network carrier with alliance membership, US certainly wants to focus on LHR over LGW.


Also coincidental timing - VS and US recently filed to expand their partnership.
US Air - Virgin Atlantic Further Expand Codeshares (by LAXintl Aug 27 2012 in Civil Aviation)

=



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineIrishAyes From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 2092 posts, RR: 15
Reply 20, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 7662 times:

Quoting bobnwa (Reply 17):
How are you determining that LHR would be a better fit than LGW. Obviosly thwere is no historical data to support that idea

There are tons of reasons. LHR is simply the preferred airport for the higher-revenue paying traffic coming into London.

Heathrow is located off the M25 iwth easy access to surrounding London, particularly the west and north regions. Gatwick, conversely, is located south of the city.

Heathrow is also connected well with central London via rail connections. The Heathrow express takes about 15 mins (unless I am wrong) whereas Gatwick express, while not absurdly longer, takes about 30. Another big advantage is that LHR is connected via the Underground.

LHR has been built around becoming one of the world's busiest international airports for decades with a more customer-centric approach for the frequent traveler through a "hub" operation setup (although arguably this is paradoxical because the transfer experience at LHR is quite hellish at times).

LGW, conversely, has a few foreign national carriers (such as EK and KE, among a host of European legacies) but for the most part, it's evolved into a huge operator base for holiday charter flights and low-cost carriers. It also cannot expand because it is constrained by a single runway.



next flights: msp-phx-slc, msp-mdw, ord-sju, sju-dfw-ord, msp-dfw, dfw-phl, phl-msp, jfk-icn, icn-hkg-bkk-cdg
User currently offlineHPRamper From United States of America, joined May 2005, 3971 posts, RR: 8
Reply 21, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 7498 times:

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 20):
LGW, conversely, has a few foreign national carriers (such as EK and KE, among a host of European legacies) but for the most part, it's evolved into a huge operator base for holiday charter flights and low-cost carriers. It also cannot expand because it is constrained by a single runway.

LGW will always have a base of traffic from O&D who happen to simply live or work closer to LGW than LHR. While CLT is better served with its single flight to LHR rather than to LGW, a single PHL-LGW will never be a bad idea as long as PHL-LHR is well served. An LGW flight is no different than a flight to any other non-hub market in Europe which US has no problem serving at the moment, and no different than any airline flying from Europe to both JFK and EWR.


User currently offlineIrishAyes From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 2092 posts, RR: 15
Reply 22, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 6965 times:

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 21):
LGW will always have a base of traffic from O&D who happen to simply live or work closer to LGW than LHR. While CLT is better served with its single flight to LHR rather than to LGW, a single PHL-LGW will never be a bad idea as long as PHL-LHR is well served. An LGW flight is no different than a flight to any other non-hub market in Europe which US has no problem serving at the moment, and no different than any airline flying from Europe to both JFK and EWR.

While I agree with you on the part that London has a large O&D base, I don't think that is justifiable enough to keep the LGW station open IF US is permitted to serve all of its hubs from LHR.

For one, it is not cost-effective to serve two airports in the same geographic region. Notice how every US carrier has chosen to consolidate their operations at LHRsince OpenSkies went into effect: AA, CO, DL and NW. US is the only exception, and likely because they did not receive the authority to launch CLTLHR. They even cancelled their PHLLGW flight which was operating in conjunction with their PHLLHR flight for awhile.

For another, it's a bit of a stretch to extrapolate LGW as its own O&D destination compared to the rest of the EU cities that US serves, and ignore the Heathrow piece of the puzzle. Even if you did isolate the LGW variable, you have to question what the value proposition is. Would the LGW flight eat into the yields of a LHR flight? Would it be filled with FF mileage burners? If the revenue isn't coming in, then there is no reason to justify the cost of keeping the operation open.

That's like saying that because of the large O&D between NYC and PAR, Delta should launch a nonstop flight between JFK and ORY in addition to CDG. Has that happened? No. Will it happen ever? Doubtful.



next flights: msp-phx-slc, msp-mdw, ord-sju, sju-dfw-ord, msp-dfw, dfw-phl, phl-msp, jfk-icn, icn-hkg-bkk-cdg
User currently offlineFlyCaledonian From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 2050 posts, RR: 3
Reply 23, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 6857 times:

Quoting jumpjets (Reply 10):
I think the slot trustee is the official dealing with the reallocation of the slots BA has had to surrender following its acquisition of BD. Maybe US think that it might be possible for some of those slots to come their way. If they do think that I fear they will be disappointed as the EU ruling on the BA/BD combination clearly specified the eligible routes for which the slots surrendered were to be used - and none were in the USA.

Exactly!



Let's Go British Caledonian!
User currently offlineskipness1E From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2007, 3090 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 6563 times:

US agreed that they could keep PHL-LGW alongside the new LHR route. It was quickly dropped.

25 Post contains images MaverickM11 : They did It never flew though
26 gilesdavies : If and when US Airways drop the CLT service from LGW, this will come as a bitter blow to the airport... The new owners have desperately lobbying airli
27 southwest737500 : Yea I was wondering the same thing, the roumered CLT - MAN flight, that would be a great route from CLT
28 will777 : Everyone seems to think that a CLT-MAN route would do great, but I'm not so sure. I've heard rumors on here that the PHL-MAN route is extremely profi
29 YYZAMS : Do they get extra points for all this expansion or added flights they are pursuing? It seems to me this is what happens before mergers or bankruptcies
30 ordjoe : CLT is surprisingly a miniature financial hub, obvisouly it is not New York or Chicago, but they have Bank of America, Wells Fargo and several other
31 nickofatlanta : I was of the understanding that one of the major corporate customers on CLT-LGW has its UK offices close to LGW. This will likely influence any decisi
32 skipness1E : Isn't that Glaxo Smith Kline and don't they have a massive office in Osterley? Osterley, as in ten minutes fron Heathrow.
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