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How Is LGA Doing For DL  
User currently onlineavi8 From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 614 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 13271 times:
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Good morning! So I was wondering if anyone could give me any insight in how LGA is doing for DL. I know that launching 200 + flights in a couple of swings takes time to make it profitable. But I was also wondering if there have been any schedule "tweaks" since the initial launch in June/July. I know it is mostly an O/D hub, but how many people actually connect in LGA?


Y'all have a good day 

Avi8.


avi8
75 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinepanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4792 posts, RR: 25
Reply 1, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 13239 times:
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Quoting avi8 (Thread starter):
I know that launching 200 + flights in a couple of swings takes time to make it profitable.

I believe it's already profitable. LGA has had a 3 point profit margin improvement in Q3 (the full ramp up was done in July) despite the 40% capacity increase.

Quoting avi8 (Thread starter):
if there have been any schedule "tweaks" since the initial launch in June/July

- Mainline 'injection' into some routes that were previously all-RJs (LGA-RDU / CLT / PWM / BUF / MCI for example)
- Dropping of LGA-PHL
- Will bump LGA-MIA from 4x to 5x daily in December
- Will start 2x daily LGA-SRQ in December


User currently offlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7344 posts, RR: 28
Reply 2, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 13228 times:

LGA is meeting or exceeding DL's initial expectation. As said, it is always a challenging when adding so much capacity in a short period of time.

Round 1 that launched in the spring went very well, and round 2 that launched in July is going well by all accounts too.

DL has made some public remarks about the LGA expansion:
http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/da...01968712003196/delta_8k-ex9901.htm
Go to slide 11 for DL's summary of LGA growth.
- Now serve 47 of the top 50 business markets
- Margin continues to improve, up 3 points in July on a 40% increase in capacity
- DL continues to gain more corporate contacts in the NYC market

As for schedule tweaks, there have been some:
- Cutting LGA-PHL this fall
- Cut LGA-OMA
- Increasing flights and capacity on LGA-Florida flights for this winter
- Upgauging LGA-NAS to a 757 for the peak winter/spring break season
- Added some mainline flights on some flights that were initially flown with 2-class RJs (PWM, RDU, CLT, BUF, MCI)
- Reduced the BOS-LGA shuttle from A319 to E75

[Edited 2012-09-07 05:44:43]

User currently onlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22313 posts, RR: 20
Reply 3, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 13101 times:

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 2):
As said, it is always a challenging when adding so much capacity in a short period of time.

Yes, and while it's too early to gather a whole lot of data, it sounds like on at least some routes, DL is having the same trouble filling the airplanes that US had. I watched a BNA-LGA flight depart the other day on which every passenger was upgraded. When you've only sold 9 seats, you can do things like that.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineMaddogJT8D From United States of America, joined Oct 2009, 393 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 13099 times:

I think it is interesting that DL is reducing shuttle capacity on BOS-LGA from A319 to E75, yet is increasing capacity on BOS-JFK and DCA-JFK from RJ's to the A319.

User currently offlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7344 posts, RR: 28
Reply 5, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 13009 times:

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 3):
Yes, and while it's too early to gather a whole lot of data, it sounds like on at least some routes, DL is having the same trouble filling the airplanes that US had. I watched a BNA-LGA flight depart the other day on which every passenger was upgraded. When you've only sold 9 seats, you can do things like that.

I'd imagine that loads vary a lot depending on the day of the week and also on the time during the day. DL is going to be commited to LGA, with some tweaks.

Quoting MaddogJT8D (Reply 4):
I think it is interesting that DL is reducing shuttle capacity on BOS-LGA from A319 to E75, yet is increasing capacity on BOS-JFK and DCA-JFK from RJ's to the A319.

When you have 5x per day on BOS-JFK vs 16x per day on BOS-LGA, there is a big difference. Plus, the flights to JFK also serve international connections.


User currently onlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22313 posts, RR: 20
Reply 6, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 12992 times:

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 5):
I'd imagine that loads vary a lot depending on the day of the week and also on the time during the day.

I think that's right, and it's similar to US' experience. Nonetheless, persistently low loads were a problem that dogged US for years, especially on shorter routes where DL is offering much more capacity. I hope DL can find a way to combat the problem, as their LGA operation is much larger and offers customers many more options than US ever did.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineairliner371 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 1280 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 12497 times:

Quote:
launching 200 + flights

It was 140 new flights, not 200+.



You will either love or hate the airline industry. If you love it, it will get in your blood and it will never leave.
User currently onlinejfklganyc From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3178 posts, RR: 5
Reply 8, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 12346 times:

"I think it is interesting that DL is reducing shuttle capacity on BOS-LGA from A319 to E75, yet is increasing capacity on BOS-JFK and DCA-JFK from RJ's to the A319."

I was looking at that the other day,

Between B6, AA, and DL, there are 13 mainline flights a day between JFK and BOS which is pretty impressive for a within the perimeter, non leisure market.

EWR has 14

LGA still has the shuttles...but half are now regional


User currently offlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7344 posts, RR: 28
Reply 9, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 12269 times:

JFK is a connecting hub for B6, DL and AA, predominately for markets not served nonstop from BOS and many of the international destinations.

LGA predominately is focused on O&D travel between the two markets.


User currently onlinejetlanta From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 3147 posts, RR: 35
Reply 10, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 11912 times:

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 3):
Yes, and while it's too early to gather a whole lot of data, it sounds like on at least some routes, DL is having the same trouble filling the airplanes that US had. I watched a BNA-LGA flight depart the other day on which every passenger was upgraded. When you've only sold 9 seats, you can do things like that.

Cubs, Delta has been flying LGA-BNA for a couple years now. The load factor performance for the YE May 1012 was 48% for DL vs. 64% for AA, which has been flying the market for decades. To be fairy evaluated, however, it is important to note that Delta's YE1Q12 average fare was $181 vs. $194 for AA. $181 is actually a very healthy fare for that stage length on E70 equipment at Delta Connections costs. AA gets a higher fare and load factor, but has been operating on AA/M80 costs. So I imagine there isn't a huge spread on the margins.

BTW, this data is all pre-LGA expansion. It will obviously improve as Delta improves its position in NYC. This service would be included in the group that saw the 4pt margin improvement since the swap.


User currently offlineslcdeltarumd11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3106 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 11822 times:

Its too early to know. Until all the seasons go by its all guesses. Summer is the busiest time of the year. I know LGA-DEN has actually done really well this summer amazingly well but it is not so stellar this Fall. I expect it to do great this winter again. Some routes will vary alot just summer is not guide of which flights are the best or will work year round.

I keep seeing delta offering connections thru LGA and this summer alot. I bet its to start and help the flights they want to connect less and less over time and rely on o&d. At least i hope. LGA is probably the worst place to connect. Hotels are ridiculously expensive so if you get stuck there for two nights during a snowstorm its really gonna stink.

I bet you its alot easier to sell corporate contracts with all those destinations now. Delta has a pretty extensive list of the business destinations non-stop from either JFK or LGA


User currently onlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22313 posts, RR: 20
Reply 12, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 11671 times:

Quoting jetlanta (Reply 10):
So I imagine there isn't a huge spread on the margins.

Does that fare data include the brief period when AA tried majority CR7 service? If so, AA probably came out ahead. If not, as you say, it's probably pretty close.

In any event, anywhere but LGA, 48 percent on a "mature" route is not a good load factor for a year. My point was simply that DL has experienced and is experiencing low loads, just like US and, in a lot of cases, AA. It doesn't mean they aren't making money. It does likely mean there's more money to be made.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently onlinejfklganyc From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3178 posts, RR: 5
Reply 13, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 11402 times:

Well look at what DL is doing this winter...same thing B6 does at JFK and same thing B6 did with LGA slots...more Florida. Highest yielding? No. But if you have the cost structure...you will fill the plane everyday.

With that move in mind, DL likely has a few more slots than in needs at LGA.

The set up at LGA is complicated. There are only so many flights that are needed within the 1500 mile ring and I think DL has hit that wall


User currently offlinekubus From Poland, joined Dec 2005, 179 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 11386 times:

Comparing to US, Delta has much better product with front cabin on CR7s on PIT route and WiFi on all A/CD. I've made a switch to DL for my weekly commute to LGA because of that. Plus ground handling, gate experience is much better. At least they make it appear that they care for customers. As for performance, I see a lot of familiar faces switching to DL metal from US and it does seem loads are good. Average fare is about $250 for Y, slightly below US at $265, this is for the early am, afternoon turns, not middle of the day bargain.
What's really funny is that in the shared terminal C, US spent a little money replacing the 1970's monitors with LCDs. Finally!


User currently offlineRwy04LGA From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 3140 posts, RR: 8
Reply 15, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 11079 times:

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 13):
There are only so many flights that are needed within the 1500 mile ring and I think DL has hit that wall

I looked at a map and saw little room for expansion.

Quoting kubus (Reply 14):
What's really funny is that in the shared terminal C, US spent a little money replacing the 1970's monitors with LCDs. Finally!

In the ticketing area or the ones just past the US security? Near gates 26 and 28? Those look like Delta standard monitors.



Just accept that some days, you're the pigeon, and other days the statue
User currently offlineFL787 From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 1531 posts, RR: 12
Reply 16, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 10879 times:

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 12):
Does that fare data include the brief period when AA tried majority CR7 service?

I'm pretty sure LGA-BNA has been MQ only for about a year at least. It's the norm now. In 1Q12, AA had 5x CR7s and an ER3.



717,72S,732/3/4/5/G/8/9,744,752/3,763/4,772/3,D9S/5,M8/90,D10,319/20/21,332/3,388,CR2/7/9,EM2,ER4,E70/75/90,SF3,AR8
User currently offlinekubus From Poland, joined Dec 2005, 179 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 10213 times:

Quoting Rwy04LGA (Reply 15):
In the ticketing area or the ones just past the US security? Near gates 26 and 28? Those look like Delta standard monitors.

Gates C36 - C41 which are US gates... right across from those are Delta's.


User currently offlineaviateur From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 1350 posts, RR: 12
Reply 18, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 9947 times:

Remember that the majority of the expansion at LGA involved CONNECTION carriers, not actual Delta, so much of this discussion is misleading.


Patrick Smith is an airline pilot, air travel columnist and author
User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 11
Reply 19, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 9451 times:

Quoting aviateur (Reply 18):
Remember that the majority of the expansion at LGA involved CONNECTION carriers, not actual Delta, so much of this discussion is misleading.

Oh Lord, here we go...



What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7276 posts, RR: 52
Reply 20, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 9250 times:

Quoting aviateur (Reply 18):
Remember that the majority of the expansion at LGA involved CONNECTION carriers, not actual Delta, so much of this discussion is misleading.

Um so the connection carriers own the slots? Directly sell the seats? Fly with their own liveries? It's Delta



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlinegothamspotter From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 586 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 9203 times:

Delta opened their new LGA Terminal C Sky Club this week. Major upgrade over the previous US Airways Club.

Photos: http://www.nycaviation.com/photo-gal...to-galleries/image/20120905_122921


User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 11
Reply 22, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 9165 times:

Quoting gothamspotter (Reply 21):

Photos: http://www.nycaviation.com/photo-gal...22921

Looks nice!!! I}ve only been in the club on D and that was before they started the build out some months back. They added a second on D and the larger of the 2 is currently being expanded.



What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlinegothamspotter From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 586 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 9128 times:

Also interesting... US is building a new club in Terminal C, but it won't be done until next year. US pax can use the new Delta club until the US club opens.

User currently offlineidlewildchild From United States of America, joined Nov 2011, 166 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 8961 times:

I recently researched booking LGA-DTW-LGA for a business trip, 5 weeks in advance for a mid-week trip and the fare came back as $745 r/t on Delta. Needless to say I would have gone through Chicago or Cleveland on UA which had a fare around $345. My stomach sank from the experience as I got sick with the thought of how high DL will be charging fares as the proverbial 'only game in town' wherever they can.

25 PSU.DTW.SCE : It's been that way for years on LGA-DTW if you are doing a trip of less than 3 days. The fare drops significantly if you spend 3 nights or if you inc
26 jfklganyc : "What's really funny is that in the shared terminal C, US spent a little money replacing the 1970's monitors with LCDs. Finally!" 1990s monitors thank
27 aviateur : I understand your point, BUT... The employees who fly the planes, maintain them, train the crews, and sign the paychecks are no more DL employees tha
28 Cubsrule : Yes, sorry, that was really unclear. It was about the first of the year they went all-MQ permanently, but IIRC they tried it for a little while in la
29 B777ER : Two points I have read: -8% of EWR traffic (passenger)moved to LGA in August (as in taken from UA). -3% LGA traffic has moved from AA to DL.[Edited 20
30 FlyASAGuy2005 : So is the TGIF in the airport REALLY TGIF? Considering everyone working the joint are HMS Host employees. And are trained by HMS host, and their chec
31 RyanairGuru : By your own logic you have probably never eaten at McDonalds once in your life. Out of interest, do you have a source? I'm not questioning the figure
32 airliner371 : On another note, has F9 given up one of there 2 gates now? They operate 3 flights, never with more then one on the ground at once and yet they have 2
33 B777ER : From DL's own internal analysis. And yes, it is and will continue to be bad for UA in the NY area with respect to business O&D.[Edited 2012-09-08
34 fat-g4 : Quick question... How do people choose between LGA, JFK, or EWR? Pretty much whoever has direct flights where there going. I'm sure there has to be ot
35 slcdeltarumd11 : Tolls can be alot but mostly traffic and distance im sure effects decision.
36 slcdeltarumd11 : Try to drive from nj to lga or long island to ewr at rush hour and it will be painful
37 jfklganyc : LGA is preferred unless you live in NJ. From Manhattan, both EWR and JFK are a bit of a schlep. Do not be fooled by people who tell you EWR is easier
38 slcdeltarumd11 : haha LGA is a dump but i still think the delta terminal at JFK was/is the worst in the country until its renovated We all have opinions but I have li
39 CODC10 : The unmitigated disaster that United has become since the merger is no doubt a major boon to Delta, and so the expansion could not possibly have come
40 adambrau : It's true about the Holland Tunnel - I walk by the traffic everyday going home from work - anytime after 330pm going west to EWR it is a disaster. Unt
41 FutureUScapt : One more tweak to add: DL will be ending its 3x LGA-YOW service after 31Oct DL has evidently just decided to run this as only a 1x pattern instead. A
42 nycdave : DL has been very aggressively going after corp contracts since loading up at LGA, and both DL and AA have been going after disgruntled UA/CO frequent
43 B777ER : Not directly related to LGA but AT&T has moved their corporate contract from SWA to DL.
44 airliner371 : If only the MTA would extend the N, Q and 7.... Didn't even know AT&T had a contract with SWA. Does SWA have any other big contracts in NYC?
45 nwmke : It is affecting b6 loads in and out of JFK from the east coast, because of the larger Jets they are using. The buisness men also prefer close in LGA.
46 PIEAvantiP180 : Is this something that B6 has come out and said publicly or is this internal B6 communications that you heard from one of their employees.
47 nwmke : A few of their employees at JFK said that the loads from upstate have lightened up with the buisness men.
48 airliner371 : If an AA/US merger happens, we can certainly expect them to have to give up slots (I am thinking about 20-25) in LGA and WN and B6 would love these sl
49 nwmke : DL has all jets from new england where as US had mainly dash 8s which has also effected B6's loads. They're more reliable.
50 OzarkD9S : Why? A combined US/AA at LGA would still have fewer slots than DL does. 10 slot pairs (maybe) but not 20-25. DCA might be another story however, but
51 jetbluefan1 : I'm not sure I can believe this. If memory serves me right, DL was already flying BUF/ROC/SYR-LGA prior to the slot swap.
52 airliner371 : While AA/US would have less then DL, the DOT for one likes LCCs better and will do a lot for them and this can be viewed as highly anti competitive i
53 PIEAvantiP180 : Some of those cities had DL service to JFK but not LGA until the slot swap.
54 Cubsrule : I generally agree, but given the precedent UA set at EWR and the fact that EWR is highly concentrated, how much would they really need to give up? I
55 slcdeltarumd11 : AT&T does not have an exclusive contract with Delta and i doubt its even a large one. Its probably just one for some offices in ATL or something.
56 airliner371 : UA gave up all the EWR slots they had. Half of AA's slots in DCA is 25. Half of US's slots in LGA is 30. I could see 20-25 going to WN or B6. I could
57 nwmke : Could see WN making sure they get all the slots. Just how B6 did in the DL/US slot swap.
58 airliner371 : I think these are the 2 most likely options. Either WN gets it all which is very likely or WN gets LGA and B6 DCA.
59 burnsie28 : I'm surprised they even had one with WN, considering the availability of flights that WN can offer, especially from NYC. Probably true, but AT&T
60 jetlanta : Including the HQ for AT&T WIreless.
61 DeltAirlines : Delta was doing all those routes out of JFK, but not LaGuardia. Delta is also using much better equipment to these cities than the CRJs and Dash 8s t
62 STT757 : But you ignore the great advantage that once you get through the crossings you have 14 lanes (seven in each direction) of the NJ Turnpike to drive wh
63 airliner371 : How is WestJet doing at LGA? They advertise on WCBS 880.
64 gigneil : I don't know why AT&T is even being discussed. AT&T is headquartered in Dallas, but mostly like Boeing is HQ'ed in Chicago . tThe vast bulk o
65 Post contains links jetlanta : As of September 2011, AT&T had over 22,000 employees in Georgia, most in Metro Atlanta. AT&T Mobility is headquartered in Atlanta. http://www
66 gigneil : I could swear this thread was about New York. NS
67 slcdeltarumd11 : you do realize that at&t is not headquartered in san antonio anymore dont you? The fact is most of the people who fly often and most who can fly
68 Cubsrule : While the difference in the San Antonio and Atlanta employee numbers is likely so high that it overwhelms the effect of what I'm about to discuss, it
69 Post contains links jetlanta : OK. Gonna say this again. AT&T Mobility is headquartered in Atlanta, as was Cingular Wireless before it. AT&T Mobility is a $32 BIllion compa
70 airzim : I live in lower Manhattan and fly out of NY airports at least 2 or 3 times a week, I think I have a very good handle on the 'reality' EWR gets 90% of
71 Cubsrule : This is typical, but you are reading some sort of anti-DL bend to my post that simply is not there. ATL is huge for AT&T and its predecessors and
72 Triple7LR : Just FYI WN inherited the AT&T contract from FL. FL received the contract in 2008 after they started ATL- SAT. Rumor has it that they only starte
73 NYCAdvantage : BQE is always a mess, my self I would rather take the RFK bridge to the FDR even thou is a longer way is a faster way to get there, One thing many pe
74 airzim : RFK Bridge? Still can't bring myself to call it that, or the Queensboro Bridge either (59th). The honest truth is most of the time it's a wash either
75 jetlanta : That is not how I was interpreting it at all. In fact, my point had little to do with Delta at all. My point was that I had said earlier that ATL was
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