KDAYflyer From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 155 posts, RR: 0 Reply 1, posted (8 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 13034 times:
vv701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 6621 posts, RR: 17 Reply 4, posted (8 months 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 12383 times:
Many thanks for posting.
G-CIVX was at BAMC for this D Check and to be fitted with the new F Class cabin between 9 January and 15 February earlier this year.
I did not see any identifying marks on the 744 broken up by Air Salvage Interbational. But AF's F-GITA was broken up by them last February. So it seems likely that was the one.
vaus77w From Australia, joined Aug 2011, 141 posts, RR: 0 Reply 5, posted (8 months 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 11846 times:
Quoting vv701 (Reply 4): I did not see any identifying marks on the 744 broken up by Air Salvage Interbational. But AF's F-GITA was broken up by them last February. So it seems likely that was the one.
Could be. At 50:48, you get a view of the tail, but I have no idea what the markings are.
RobK From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2004, 3932 posts, RR: 19 Reply 7, posted (8 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 10377 times:
Quoting vv701 (Reply 4): I did not see any identifying marks on the 744 broken up by Air Salvage Interbational. But AF's F-GITA was broken up by them last February. So it seems likely that was the one.
Look in the other thread on this topic, it was already discussed it great detail. From memory it's VT-EPX.
vv701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 6621 posts, RR: 17 Reply 9, posted (8 months 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 5926 times:
Quoting RobK (Reply 7): Look in the other thread on this topic, it was already discussed it great detail. From memory it's VT-EPX.
Thanks. Did several searches for but could not find it.
'PX was ferried to Kemble on 6 January 2009 and was scrapped in the following May. This was as much as 21 months before 'VX's 'D' Check. However . . .
The scrapping of 'TA - as suggested in the video, was contemporaneous with 'VX's D Check. But now you have suggested that the aircraft being scrapped is not 'TA I see that the trees in the background to whatever aircraft it is being broken up have leaves on them. So those sequences were not shot in February despite the suggestion in the video. So that aircraft is not AF's 'TA as I suggested it might be and the break up pictured was not contemporaneous with 'VX's D Check.
In an early sequence of the video (3 mins 58 secs) that purports to show 'CX arriving at Cardiff it is clear that main deck cabin windows #3, #8,, #11 and #14 are blanked out. These windows were blanked as part of the fitting of the New First cabin. As confirmed by the entry for 15 February here:
this happened while the aircraft was at Cardiff having its D Check from 9 January to 15 February, the day it was returned to service operating LHR-GRU (BA247).
thegivenone From Austria, joined Jan 2008, 134 posts, RR: 0 Reply 12, posted (8 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 4686 times:
Thanks for posting vaus77w! What an incredible documentary. It's things like this that remind us how much really stands behind getting a plane into the air!
frmrCapCadet From United States of America, joined May 2008, 1501 posts, RR: 1 Reply 13, posted (8 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 4074 times:
Are titanium parts always recovered and recycled/smelted? Or can the titanium be recovered while recycling aluminum? It seems valuable enough.
Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)
B777LRF From Luxembourg, joined Nov 2008, 1005 posts, RR: 3 Reply 15, posted (8 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 3583 times:
Loved that, thank you very much. Couldn't help notice the difference between this BBC production and those made in the US. Mainly the absence of hard-rock guitar music to set a totally unnecessary action packed tone, and secondly the lack of recaps every 7 minutes, coinciding with commercial breaks and the - it would seem - incredibly short attention span producers assign to their audience.
From receips and radials over straight pipes to big fans - been there, done that, got the hearing defects to prove
goosebayguy From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2009, 222 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (8 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 3520 times:
Quoting frmrCapCadet (Reply 13): Are titanium parts always recovered and recycled/smelted?
I worked on the Avro Vulcan many years ago. At the end of their service they went out to museums around the country. A few months later someone suddenly realised they had a fair weight in titanium surrounding the turbine area of the engine bays. Teams were quickly dispatched to recover the sheets. This involved about 4 people who had to drop the engine remove the sheets and re-install the engines once again. Naturally this was quite a costly operation but it must have been very worthwhile.
vv701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 6621 posts, RR: 17 Reply 17, posted (8 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 3351 times:
Quoting RJAF (Reply 14): heard a 'D' check on a 747 costs around USD 1.5M! Can anyone confirm?
I cannot confirm this but it seems very reasonable.
According to the video 200 engineers worked on 'VX. It was at CWL for 37 days that is just a little more than 10 per cent of a year. So the labour costs were equivalent to the annual costs of employing 20 engineers.
In the UK the total cost of an average employee allowing for employers tax, pension contributions and the provision of working space and other benefits is 1.3 to 1.5 times his or her pay. So if that US$ 1.5 million figure was all employee costs (which clearly it was not with the cost of the materials and equipment used) the average cost per employee would be US$ 75,000 and the average pay per employee between US$ 50,000 and US$ 60,000 or £31,000 to £37,000.
I have no idea how much an aeronautical engineer might earn but recognising the above figures would need to include something for materials used, I would think that the cost of a D Check might be more rather than less than US$ 1,5 million but probably in that ball park.
AirlineCritic From Finland, joined Mar 2009, 611 posts, RR: 1 Reply 19, posted (8 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 2578 times:
Quoting vv701 (Reply 17): I have no idea how much an aeronautical engineer might earn but recognising the above figures would need to include something for materials used, I would think that the cost of a D Check might be more rather than less than US$ 1,5 million but probably in that ball park.
Hmm. I think the number is a bit on the low side, actually. On the video they worked 24x7 which means extra costs under most circumstances, the hangar space is expensive and even if you own it you have to factor in a reasonable cost of the building, and I think the salary figures especially for various specialists might be higher than the ones that you mentioned.
37 days is 15% of the maximum 240 working days in a year (48 weeks x 5 days). Not 10%.
And then there are materials. And subcontractors. If you send the seats off somewhere to be refurbished, that might be several hundred EUR per seat, times many seats. If you replace instruments or any of the technology, it gets very expensive very quickly. I suppose the engines are just inspected, not replaced. Even so, what's the likelihood of having to replace a part, and how much would a turbine blade or oil pump cost?
vv701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 6621 posts, RR: 17 Reply 20, posted (8 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 2276 times:
Quoting AirlineCritic (Reply 19): 37 days is 15% of the maximum 240 working days in a year (48 weeks x 5 days). Not 10%.
No. 'VX spent 37 days between 9 January and 15 February at Cardiff undergoing a D Check. This period contained six Mondays and Tuesdays and five Wednesdays to Sundays. During these 37 days according to the commentary at 1:15 in the video "a team of 200 engineers" worked on the aircraft. According to one of these engineers at 7:59 "we pretty well work seven days, twenty-four hours". So for 'VX every day of the week - that is all 37 days spent at CWL, Monday through Sunday - were working days. 37 days is 10.11 per cent (and not 15 per cent ) of 366 days (2012 being a leap year)
Engineers are salaried. That is they are contracted to work a given number of hours in a working week and in return receive an annual salary.
So the labour cost of the D Check on 'VX was 200 (number of engineers dedicated to 'VX) times the average annual engineer's annual salary times 0.1011. The number of working days in a year and the number of holiday days only become relevant if we working out an hourly pay rate and not an annual or weekly salary.
AirlineCritic From Finland, joined Mar 2009, 611 posts, RR: 1 Reply 21, posted (8 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 2157 times:
Quoting vv701 (Reply 20): So for 'VX every day of the week - that is all 37 days spent at CWL, Monday through Sunday - were working days. 37 days is 10.11 per cent (and not 15 per cent ) of 366 days (2012 being a leap year)
The number of working days in a year and the number of holiday days only become relevant if we working out an hourly pay rate and not an annual or weekly salary.
My point was that you are comparing actual working days against all the days in a year. The latter includes holidays and days off. If my engineers work day and nite and through weekends on a project, they are going to have some days off after the project, which I have to account for when I calculate the cost of the project.
In any case, actually we don't know whether you or me is right in this case. The video did not explain how individual engineers worked. The team worked 24x7. If individuals worked at their average pace (e.g., 40 hours per week and also taking some vacation time during the project), then we are fine with an average costs over 37 days/366 days. If the individuals worked harder, e.g., no one took vacations or they worked overtime, then the calculation should be done differently. Also, did your 1.3 to 1.5 factor include vacations?
MountainFlyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 363 posts, RR: 0 Reply 23, posted (8 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 1863 times:
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