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Engineering Giants Documentary - BA 747 D-check  
User currently offlinevaus77w From Australia, joined Aug 2011, 143 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 14924 times:

Documentary covers stripping of the cabin and much of the structure, checking for cracks, testing and replacing components and also the scrapping of a 747. I found it very interesting and highly recommend.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_yHt...Rix0zEw&index=1&feature=plpp_video

23 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineKDAYflyer From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 155 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (2 years 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 14839 times:

Cool stuff. Thanks for posting. Very informative.

User currently offlineEK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 4921 posts, RR: 4
Reply 2, posted (2 years 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 14763 times:

Quoting vaus77w (Thread starter):

Thanks for sharing the video with us... Really amazing...

EK413



Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
User currently offlinelukeyboy95 From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2008, 1092 posts, RR: 31
Reply 3, posted (2 years 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 14701 times:

Haha.

I was just.. I mean JUST! about to post the same link!

Excellent quality and highly informative.

Rgds

Luke



Breaking down the stereotypes - one by one
User currently offlinevv701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7541 posts, RR: 17
Reply 4, posted (2 years 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 14188 times:

Many thanks for posting.

G-CIVX was at BAMC for this D Check and to be fitted with the new F Class cabin between 9 January and 15 February earlier this year.

I did not see any identifying marks on the 744 broken up by Air Salvage Interbational. But AF's F-GITA was broken up by them last February. So it seems likely that was the one.


User currently offlinevaus77w From Australia, joined Aug 2011, 143 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (2 years 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 13651 times:

Quoting vv701 (Reply 4):
I did not see any identifying marks on the 744 broken up by Air Salvage Interbational. But AF's F-GITA was broken up by them last February. So it seems likely that was the one.

Could be. At 50:48, you get a view of the tail, but I have no idea what the markings are.


User currently offlineFI642 From Monaco, joined Mar 2005, 1079 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (2 years 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 12385 times:

Very cool video, Thanks for sharing!


737MAX, Cool Planes for the Worlds Coolest Airline.
User currently offlineRobK From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2004, 3949 posts, RR: 18
Reply 7, posted (2 years 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 12182 times:

Quoting vv701 (Reply 4):
I did not see any identifying marks on the 744 broken up by Air Salvage Interbational. But AF's F-GITA was broken up by them last February. So it seems likely that was the one.

Look in the other thread on this topic, it was already discussed it great detail. From memory it's VT-EPX.


User currently offlineairboe From San Marino, joined Jan 2011, 45 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (2 years 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 10762 times:

Great video, thanks!

[Edited 2012-09-08 00:19:23]


keep it free of the propellers
User currently offlinevv701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7541 posts, RR: 17
Reply 9, posted (2 years 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 7731 times:

Quoting RobK (Reply 7):
Look in the other thread on this topic, it was already discussed it great detail. From memory it's VT-EPX.

Thanks. Did several searches for but could not find it.

'PX was ferried to Kemble on 6 January 2009 and was scrapped in the following May. This was as much as 21 months before 'VX's 'D' Check. However . . .

The scrapping of 'TA - as suggested in the video, was contemporaneous with 'VX's D Check. But now you have suggested that the aircraft being scrapped is not 'TA I see that the trees in the background to whatever aircraft it is being broken up have leaves on them. So those sequences were not shot in February despite the suggestion in the video. So that aircraft is not AF's 'TA as I suggested it might be and the break up pictured was not contemporaneous with 'VX's D Check.

In an early sequence of the video (3 mins 58 secs) that purports to show 'CX arriving at Cardiff it is clear that main deck cabin windows #3, #8,, #11 and #14 are blanked out. These windows were blanked as part of the fitting of the New First cabin. As confirmed by the entry for 15 February here:

http://www.thebasource.com/february2012.html

this happened while the aircraft was at Cardiff having its D Check from 9 January to 15 February, the day it was returned to service operating LHR-GRU (BA247).

So all is not quite what it seems.


User currently offlineRobK From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2004, 3949 posts, RR: 18
Reply 10, posted (2 years 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 7440 times:

Stripping Down A 747 - BBC2 20.00 Sunday 15th July (by GDB Jul 13 2012 in Civil Aviation)

Reply 43.


User currently offlinevv701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7541 posts, RR: 17
Reply 11, posted (2 years 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 7141 times:

Quoting RobK (Reply 10):

Many thanks.


User currently offlinethegivenone From Austria, joined Jan 2008, 192 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (2 years 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 6491 times:

Thanks for posting vaus77w! What an incredible documentary. It's things like this that remind us how much really stands behind getting a plane into the air!

User currently offlinefrmrCapCadet From United States of America, joined May 2008, 1720 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (2 years 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 5879 times:

Are titanium parts always recovered and recycled/smelted? Or can the titanium be recovered while recycling aluminum? It seems valuable enough.


Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)
User currently offlineRJAF From Jordan, joined Jan 2007, 317 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (2 years 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 5504 times:

Very nice and informative video. Thanks for sharing.

I heard a 'D' check on a 747 costs around USD 1.5M! Can anyone confirm?



Chance favors the prepared mind
User currently offlineB777LRF From Luxembourg, joined Nov 2008, 1361 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (2 years 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 5388 times:

Loved that, thank you very much. Couldn't help notice the difference between this BBC production and those made in the US. Mainly the absence of hard-rock guitar music to set a totally unnecessary action packed tone, and secondly the lack of recaps every 7 minutes, coinciding with commercial breaks and the - it would seem - incredibly short attention span producers assign to their audience.


From receips and radials over straight pipes to big fans - been there, done that, got the hearing defects to prove
User currently offlinegoosebayguy From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2009, 401 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (2 years 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 5325 times:

Quoting frmrCapCadet (Reply 13):
Are titanium parts always recovered and recycled/smelted?

I worked on the Avro Vulcan many years ago. At the end of their service they went out to museums around the country. A few months later someone suddenly realised they had a fair weight in titanium surrounding the turbine area of the engine bays. Teams were quickly dispatched to recover the sheets. This involved about 4 people who had to drop the engine remove the sheets and re-install the engines once again. Naturally this was quite a costly operation but it must have been very worthwhile.


User currently offlinevv701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7541 posts, RR: 17
Reply 17, posted (2 years 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 5156 times:

Quoting RJAF (Reply 14):
heard a 'D' check on a 747 costs around USD 1.5M! Can anyone confirm?

I cannot confirm this but it seems very reasonable.

According to the video 200 engineers worked on 'VX. It was at CWL for 37 days that is just a little more than 10 per cent of a year. So the labour costs were equivalent to the annual costs of employing 20 engineers.

In the UK the total cost of an average employee allowing for employers tax, pension contributions and the provision of working space and other benefits is 1.3 to 1.5 times his or her pay. So if that US$ 1.5 million figure was all employee costs (which clearly it was not with the cost of the materials and equipment used) the average cost per employee would be US$ 75,000 and the average pay per employee between US$ 50,000 and US$ 60,000 or £31,000 to £37,000.

I have no idea how much an aeronautical engineer might earn but recognising the above figures would need to include something for materials used, I would think that the cost of a D Check might be more rather than less than US$ 1,5 million but probably in that ball park.


User currently offlineRwy04LGA From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 3176 posts, RR: 8
Reply 18, posted (2 years 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 4727 times:

Great video, thanks! Search YouTube for the 1080p HD version of the same video.


Just accept that some days, you're the pigeon, and other days the statue
User currently offlineAirlineCritic From Finland, joined Mar 2009, 710 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (2 years 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 4383 times:

Quoting vv701 (Reply 17):
I have no idea how much an aeronautical engineer might earn but recognising the above figures would need to include something for materials used, I would think that the cost of a D Check might be more rather than less than US$ 1,5 million but probably in that ball park.

Hmm. I think the number is a bit on the low side, actually. On the video they worked 24x7 which means extra costs under most circumstances, the hangar space is expensive and even if you own it you have to factor in a reasonable cost of the building, and I think the salary figures especially for various specialists might be higher than the ones that you mentioned.

37 days is 15% of the maximum 240 working days in a year (48 weeks x 5 days). Not 10%.

And then there are materials. And subcontractors. If you send the seats off somewhere to be refurbished, that might be several hundred EUR per seat, times many seats. If you replace instruments or any of the technology, it gets very expensive very quickly. I suppose the engines are just inspected, not replaced. Even so, what's the likelihood of having to replace a part, and how much would a turbine blade or oil pump cost?


User currently offlinevv701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7541 posts, RR: 17
Reply 20, posted (2 years 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 4081 times:

Quoting AirlineCritic (Reply 19):
37 days is 15% of the maximum 240 working days in a year (48 weeks x 5 days). Not 10%.

No. 'VX spent 37 days between 9 January and 15 February at Cardiff undergoing a D Check. This period contained six Mondays and Tuesdays and five Wednesdays to Sundays. During these 37 days according to the commentary at 1:15 in the video "a team of 200 engineers" worked on the aircraft. According to one of these engineers at 7:59 "we pretty well work seven days, twenty-four hours". So for 'VX every day of the week - that is all 37 days spent at CWL, Monday through Sunday - were working days. 37 days is 10.11 per cent (and not 15 per cent ) of 366 days (2012 being a leap year)

Engineers are salaried. That is they are contracted to work a given number of hours in a working week and in return receive an annual salary.

So the labour cost of the D Check on 'VX was 200 (number of engineers dedicated to 'VX) times the average annual engineer's annual salary times 0.1011. The number of working days in a year and the number of holiday days only become relevant if we working out an hourly pay rate and not an annual or weekly salary.


User currently offlineAirlineCritic From Finland, joined Mar 2009, 710 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (2 years 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 3962 times:

Quoting vv701 (Reply 20):
So for 'VX every day of the week - that is all 37 days spent at CWL, Monday through Sunday - were working days. 37 days is 10.11 per cent (and not 15 per cent ) of 366 days (2012 being a leap year)

The number of working days in a year and the number of holiday days only become relevant if we working out an hourly pay rate and not an annual or weekly salary.

My point was that you are comparing actual working days against all the days in a year. The latter includes holidays and days off. If my engineers work day and nite and through weekends on a project, they are going to have some days off after the project, which I have to account for when I calculate the cost of the project.

In any case, actually we don't know whether you or me is right in this case. The video did not explain how individual engineers worked. The team worked 24x7. If individuals worked at their average pace (e.g., 40 hours per week and also taking some vacation time during the project), then we are fine with an average costs over 37 days/366 days. If the individuals worked harder, e.g., no one took vacations or they worked overtime, then the calculation should be done differently. Also, did your 1.3 to 1.5 factor include vacations?


User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31684 posts, RR: 56
Reply 22, posted (2 years 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 3726 times:

One of the Best videos from Aviation.......


Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineMountainFlyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 476 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (2 years 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 3668 times:

Very cool. Thank you for posting!


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