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Possible Stow Away Fell Off On Approach To LHR  
User currently offlineHIRSCH777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2012, 20 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 15162 times:

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/flight-path...dy-may-fallen-plane-120713600.html

Not Confirmed Yet. Still being Investigated.

My Thoughts are that this was infact a Stow Away.

Sad, Very Sad.

RIP

HIRSCH777

24 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently onlineAR385 From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 5943 posts, RR: 30
Reply 1, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 15166 times:
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The witness says there were loads of blood everywhere. I would buy that he may have been a stowaway if the planes were passing over on take-off, as he may still be alive. But if they were on approach, I find it very strange that there was so much blood as described by the witness. The stowaway would have been death and frozen, so where did all the blood come from?


MGGS
User currently offlineHIRSCH777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2012, 20 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 15167 times:

Quoting HIRSCH777 (Thread starter):
The witness says there were loads of blood everywhere. I would buy that he may have been a stowaway if the planes were passing over on take-off, as he may still be alive. But if they were on approach, I find it very strange that there was so much blood as described by the witness. The stowaway would have been death and frozen, so where did all the blood come from?

The Body Internally would have heated back to Normal Temps throughout the decent.

Both Ways, Its a Rough Situation, and Major Bleeding is possible from the Intense Impact.

It is Amazing how Dumb People Are to think they have a fighting chance being a stow away. Especially since a recent case happened last Month.

HIRSCH777


User currently offlineCitationJet From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 2368 posts, RR: 3
Reply 3, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 15167 times:

There was a stowaway body found August 23 at Heathrow in a BA 747 wheel well after arrival from Cape Town.

http://www.avherald.com/h?article=454bcaae&opt=6400



Boeing Flown: 701,702,703;717;720;721,722;731,732,733,734,735,737,738,739;741,742,743,744,747SP;752,753;762,763;772,773.
User currently onlineAR385 From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 5943 posts, RR: 30
Reply 4, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 15170 times:
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Quoting HIRSCH777 (Reply 2):
The Body Internally would have heated back to Normal Temps throughout the decent.

From being frozen at -40 C I doubt that in 25 mins, it would have thawed to "Normal temps"



MGGS
User currently offlineJean Leloup From Canada, joined Apr 2001, 2115 posts, RR: 20
Reply 5, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 15171 times:

Quoting AR385 (Reply 4):
From being frozen at -40 C I doubt that in 25 mins, it would have thawed to "Normal temps"

Agreed. Don't think it would be able to 'bleed' even a little in that timeframe. However, reading the article, it's not clear how long the body had been in the street when people observed lots of blood. So blood could have begun to seep as the body thawed over a period of hours, as it appears the body was left there for some time after it was discovered.

JL



Next flight.... who knows.
User currently offlinesw733 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6265 posts, RR: 9
Reply 6, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 15171 times:

Quoting HIRSCH777 (Reply 2):
It is Amazing how Dumb People Are to think they have a fighting chance being a stow away. Especially since a recent case happened last Month.

If they're from some poor African country (just an example), odds are they have no idea how an aircraft works and very little access to news, let alone news covering recent aircraft stowaway stories.


User currently offlineASA From Bangladesh, joined Dec 2010, 674 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 15169 times:

Quoting sw733 (Reply 6):
If they're from some poor African country (just an example), odds are they have no idea how an aircraft works and very little access to news, let alone news covering recent aircraft stowaway stories.

Unfortunately, you're right. A majority people even in developed countries don't know the details of aircraft mechanics or operation ... I don't think I would be wrong to say that not even 1% in the developing world would know the dangers of an aircraft wheel well, especially the destitute poor who would think of taking such a step to a 'better future'. S A D.

[Edited 2012-09-10 10:01:21]

User currently offlinerfields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7345 posts, RR: 32
Reply 8, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 15169 times:

Quoting AR385 (Reply 1):
The witness says there were loads of blood everywhere.

That could be much less than a pint, depending upon how it was scattered. People very often greatly overestimate the amount of blood present after something happens. I've seen reports about "gallons of blood" from an injury where the person survived more then once.


User currently offlineBryanG From United States of America, joined May 1999, 429 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 15166 times:

It would take a LONG time to freeze a human body completely solid.

Even if the person was in the wheel well long enough to die from exposure, the innermost blood and guts would still be somewhat liquid and capable of bleeding out of the body, especially when the body's been cracked open by tarmac or cement after a long fall.

Morbid thoughts indeed.


User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 18684 posts, RR: 58
Reply 10, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 15041 times:

Quoting HIRSCH777 (Reply 2):
The Body Internally would have heated back to Normal Temps throughout the decent.

Not so fast. Let's assume a long flight (8 hours) and let's assume that the stowaway expired soon after reaching cruise altitude. The body would cool down to an interior temperature that was quite cold, if not freezing over the period of the flight. Remember that this would not be a rapid process as there is no circulation, so it would simply be a matter of straight heating and cooling of a solid body.

If the body has been cold-soaked for 7 hours at altitude, a 30 minute descent to ground temperatures (and remember that even 1000 feet AGL can be significantly cooler than ground level) is not going to heat up the internal temperature enough. He will still be frozen quite solid.

Second, within several minutes after the heart stops pumping, the blood will begin to coagulate (clot). Once blood has coagulated, it will not uncoagulate. So even if the body did warm up on descent, it still would not bleed. Finally, even if death occurred minutes before an injury, bleeding requires circulation. If you stab a corpse, even a very fresh corpse, the corpse will bleed only very minimally.

For these reasons, the presence of a large amount of blood around a corpse with obvious injury suggests that the injury occurred while the victim was still alive. If the eyewitness account is true, then it would suggest that the man was alive at the time he fell from the aircraft (whether he was conscious I'm not sure we'll ever know).

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 8):
People very often greatly overestimate the amount of blood present after something happens. I've seen reports about "gallons of blood" from an injury where the person survived more then once.

Blood and vomitus are two fluids where a thimbleful looks like an ocean. In med school, one of my professors once had me prick my finger and start squeezing drops of blood into a basin full of water. About fifteen drops in, it started to look like an axe murder had occurred.

Quoting BryanG (Reply 9):
It would take a LONG time to freeze a human body completely solid.

Eight hours at -80F will do quite nicely, I'd imagine.


User currently offlineHIRSCH777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2012, 20 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 14980 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 10):
For these reasons, the presence of a large amount of blood around a corpse with obvious injury suggests that the injury occurred while the victim was still alive. If the eyewitness account is true, then it would suggest that the man was alive at the time he fell from the aircraft (whether he was conscious I'm not sure we'll ever know).

Very Nice, DocLightning.

I Am impressed by your Knowledge.

Regards,

HIRSCH777


User currently offlineDTWPurserBoy From United States of America, joined Feb 2010, 1258 posts, RR: 6
Reply 12, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 14789 times:

Crushing injuries could have happened on take off as the gear retracted. There is not a lot of space left in those wheel wells when the main gear comes up. He could have bled out before he died. Very sad to see this happening again and again.


Qualified on Concorde/B707/B720/B727/B737/B747/B757/B767/B777/DC-8/DC-9/DC-10/A319/A320/A330/MD-88-90
User currently onlinethomasphoto60 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 3860 posts, RR: 23
Reply 13, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 14595 times:

I am reminded of this photo taken by a spotter at SYD testing out a new lens he received for Christmas in 1970........surreal.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?ni...&sjid=VVcDAAAAIBAJ&pg=5560,5563585

Place the purple box on the photo to the right and minimize to get the full photo.



"Show me the Braniffs"
User currently offlinelegion242 From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 233 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 14544 times:

Quoting thomasphoto60 (Reply 13):
I am reminded of this photo taken by a spotter at SYD testing out a new lens he received for Christmas in 1970........surreal.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?ni...&sjid=VVcDAAAAIBAJ&pg=5560,5563585

Place the purple box on the photo to the right and minimize to get the full photo.

Wild!!



Don't make me release the monkeys!!
User currently offlinemayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 9960 posts, RR: 14
Reply 15, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 14507 times:

When I was working at DL cargo at ORD in the 70s, we had an L-100 Freighter come in on a Saturday night............not scheduled but bringing in an engine for a DC-8. One of the guys went to pin the nosegear and there was an arm hanging down from up in the wheel well.

Seems as though the deceased was a maintenance employee who worked in ATL and had been fired for drinking on the job. Probably got drunk, crawled up in the nose wheel well (he had no idea it was leaving as it wasn't scheduled) and fell asleep. I wasn't actually down there on the ramp where it was parked, but I would imagine that he wasn't in very good condition as there's not much room up where when retracted.

[Edited 2012-09-10 18:27:09]


"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 6942 posts, RR: 18
Reply 16, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 14219 times:

Quoting CitationJet (Reply 3):
There was a stowaway body found August 23 at Heathrow in a BA 747 wheel well after arrival from Cape Town.

This is starting to happen quite a bit. I wonder how they even think they can survive in the wheel well of a jet?  



One of the FB admins for PHX Spotters. "Zach the Expat!"
User currently onlinethomasphoto60 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 3860 posts, RR: 23
Reply 17, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 14079 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 16):
I wonder how they even think they can survive in the wheel well of a jet?

Likely they know very little about aviation.



"Show me the Braniffs"
User currently offlinerfields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7345 posts, RR: 32
Reply 18, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 13499 times:

When ever I see these stories it always reminds me of the World Airways B727 when left Danang with people holding onto the gear and in the wheel wells, with the one deceased fellow's legs sticking out the MLG doors.

They think that because his body fouled the retraction and forced the plane to fly to Saigon with the gear down, the other four in the wheel wells survived.

One of my counterparts from Clark filmed some close ups of the aircraft in flight from a USAF C-130 which flew with the B727 for a while before it landed. You can see the people in the wheel well are alive and hanging on for dear life.


User currently offlineimiakhtar From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 13225 times:

Quoting thomasphoto60 (Reply 13):
I am reminded of this photo taken by a spotter at SYD testing out a new lens he received for Christmas in 1970........surreal.

Apparently, the kid had just ran away from a Roman Catholic boys' institution.

According to wiki, there have been a few plucky survivors:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stowaway


User currently offlinehz747300 From Hong Kong, joined Mar 2004, 1647 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 13178 times:
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There would be no way to survive, right? Even if you addressed the cold weather, the thin air would do you in. Tragic. Is the speculation still that they came from a North African originated plane?


Keep on truckin'...
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 18684 posts, RR: 58
Reply 21, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 11773 times:

Quoting HIRSCH777 (Reply 11):
Very Nice, DocLightning.

I Am impressed by your Knowledge.

My job...

Quoting hz747300 (Reply 20):

There would be no way to survive, right? Even if you addressed the cold weather, the thin air would do you in. Tragic. Is the speculation still that they came from a North African originated plane?

There have been some very fortunate survivors. Not a lot, but some. On some improbably long (transoceanic) flights, too. I'm guessing part of it is that the hypothermia (much like a drowning in an ice lake) slows the metabolic processes and makes less oxygen necessary. None of them have been conscious for most of the flight.


User currently offlineandrefranca From Brazil, joined May 2011, 588 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 10199 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 21):
There have been some very fortunate survivors. Not a lot, but some. On some improbably long (transoceanic) flights, too. I'm guessing part of it is that the hypothermia (much like a drowning in an ice lake) slows the metabolic processes and makes less oxygen necessary. None of them have been conscious for most of the flight.

  

If I'm not mistaken it was a man from Fiji in the pacific, he hided on the wheels and the cold made his metabolism to decelerate meaning he didn't need that much oxygen, anyways he was a lucky man he survived the long trip, but was arrested later and returned to Fiji! LOL.


User currently offlinepeterinlisbon From Portugal, joined Jan 2006, 394 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 10038 times:

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Portma...UJW3JYKZ0QWik4CYAw&ved=0CAsQ_AUoAg

The location is exactly alligned with the approach to Runway 27L. It looks like the aircraft was lined up and descending, 6 miles from touchdown. He must have fallen out just as it lowered the landing gear, a fall from about 3000 ft.


User currently offlineDTWSXM From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 25 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 4919 times:

I am always surprised that members of A-Net, who are quick to respond to those who speculate about anything aircraft, will make statements about how things could or could not be concerning this incident. I've worked in healthcare for over fifteen years and there is almost nothing that is a certainty when it comes to the human body.

To quote those A-Net experts, 'Let the investigation take its course.' When all the facts are known a proper conclusion can be drawn.

Cheers!
Chris



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