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UA Drops Fare Codes From United.com  
User currently offlineBFinSF From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 7 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 16600 times:

In the past week, United has removed fare codes from the booking engine on United.com.

sUA's former platform displayed codes (if your profile was in Expert mode) and the new website, following the March 2012 transition, displayed the codes via a hyperlink in the flight display when booking flights or looking up an existing reservation (presuming this was the case for sCO's site prior to the conversion). This functionality proved to be an easy and useful reference for those flyers wishing to confirm upgrade potential or current availability on any given flight. Anyone now seeking that information has to call an agent to verify.

In calling United.com support to verify this reduced functionality, the CSR agent indicated that they (staff) had been advised that the fare buckeets were disappearing from United.com and that the reason they were removed was out of concern that "someone could use them improperly". What sort of improper activity?

As a long time sUA flyer, this leaves me shaking my head as it seems like yet another technology decision this year that has resulted in reduced functionality and options for customers.

49 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinetommy767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6584 posts, RR: 11
Reply 1, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 16458 times:

How CO of them. Welcome to the fun world of pricing control!


"Folks that's the news and I'm outta here!" -- Dennis Miller
User currently offlineORDBOSEWR From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 426 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 16451 times:

This change has had a world of outcry on flyertalk. There are at least 3 threads on the topic as of now.
None of them have a single positive post in them.

Clearly UA felt someone or something was using this information improperly and this was the only way to resolve it quickly.

My question is do other airlines offer the fare codes on their websites?

Here is what she posted:
Hi Everyone,

Later this evening we’ll be making a change on united.com that will remove the ability to see the specific allocation of seat inventory made to each Fare Class (this is the Fare Class hyperlink found in the right-most column when searching for flights or viewing itinerary details). I know that this is a popular feature for many of you here – in fact, we liked it too. But, it wasn’t without issues. Specifically, for many customers who are not as familiar with the ins and outs of fare structures, there was often room for this information to be misinterpreted. It also left the door open for undesired exposure that allowed automated scripts to scrape and re-display information in ways for which it was not intended.

That said, we have great appreciation for the transparency this information offered. For example, having a better understanding of how full a flight is, along with knowing how many other customers want to upgrade on a flight, can be critical in deciding whether to pay to guarantee a seat immediately, use mileage to upgrade, hold out to see if a space-available upgrade will clear or select another flight all together. We are committed to improving transparency around this. But, instead of simply exposing fare class inventory (which is quite confusing to most customers), we are working on better ways to share this more meaningful information. You’ll see one new feature added with this release and even more changes that work toward this effort in future releases.

Shannon Kelly
Director, Customer Insights
United Airlines

A second post from her later said this:
Hi Everyone,

I can certainly appreciate the feedback on this particular topic. I’ve responded to a fair number of PMs tonight and I do want to at least offer a bit of clarification here in the thread as well. I know there’s no explanation that will make the current state better for those of you here. But, at the end of the day, the way in which the information was shared was truly causing issues and confusion for an extremely broad audience. This is what drove the change. This information displays for all customers and there is no ‘expert mode’ setting as there was on the previous site. So, turning it off, as a first step, really is helping mitigate a large volume of issues that our front line co-workers and other customers are experiencing.

Getting this information back into the hands of the “right” users is our next step. As many of you have suggested, the solution lies somewhere between adding this information as an option in a profile setting to providing even more detail in much smarter ways. I would never couch this as a “change we expect anyone to like”. I can appreciate that it’s seen as a take away. We are committed to making this information more robust and useful though – especially for our expert travelers. I know it can't happen quickly enough.

Shannon


User currently offlineAA737-823 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 5730 posts, RR: 11
Reply 3, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 16387 times:

Well, listening to her words, they want to "get the information back into the hands of the right users."
And, if it was genuinely causing problems, then so be it.
It's a free country- UCON Holdings is free to do whatever it wishes with its website, popular or unpopular.
I might not agree with it, but it sounds like they're making efforts to find another solution.


User currently offlinejetblast From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 1231 posts, RR: 10
Reply 4, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 16366 times:

Quoting ORDBOSEWR (Reply 2):
This change has had a world of outcry on flyertalk. There are at least 3 threads on the topic as of now.
None of them have a single positive post in them.

God forbid the self-anointed elites can't get their blessed free upgrade on their next trip.

The average air passenger seems to get confused by fare codes (and understandably so, most people don't know the difference between an A, F, O, or W fare or why there is a price difference between them). If it helps Joe Blow using united.com to understand a bit better I'm all for it.



Speedbird Concorde One
User currently onlineRyanairGuru From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 5199 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 16348 times:

Quoting ORDBOSEWR (Reply 2):
My question is do other airlines offer the fare codes on their websites?

DL and AA display it during the booking process.

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 1):
How CO of them.

Que? I thought CO displayed this information.



Worked Hard, Flew Right
User currently offlineAA737-823 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 5730 posts, RR: 11
Reply 6, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 16326 times:

Quoting jetblast (Reply 4):
If it helps Joe Blow using united.com to understand a bit better I'm all for it.

Joe Blow doesn't necessarily need to understand it- he simply finds the cheap fare that comes up, and clicks "buy."

Quoting jetblast (Reply 4):
God forbid the self-anointed elites can't get their blessed free upgrade on their next trip.

Wow... now THERE'S a way to win friends and influence enemies. You have a problem with frequent customers being rewarded? I guess mileage tickets should be disallowed, too, since it's really the same thing: rewarding frequent customers with free stuff.
An, for the record, it was UNITED who anointed us, not we ourselves.


User currently onlineRyanairGuru From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 5199 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 16285 times:

Quoting jetblast (Reply 4):
The average air passenger seems to get confused by fare codes (and understandably so, most people don't know the difference between an A, F, O, or W fare or why there is a price difference between them)

This I can agree with, last week my girlfriend asked what was the difference in service between "Economy (L)" and "Economy (T)".

If they can make the information available to those who need it while restricting its capacity to confuse a once a year flyer then I think that's a good thing. That said, not having it at all is very unhelpful to us in the know.



Worked Hard, Flew Right
User currently offlineairportugal310 From Palau, joined Apr 2004, 3586 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 16259 times:

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 6):
An, for the record, it was UNITED who anointed us, not we ourselves.

The reality of it all is that the truth lies somewhere in the middle. United certainly did make you elite, but being an elite, and ELITISM, are two slightly different things

I suspect you know this, too.



I sell airplanes and airplane accessories
User currently offlineaeroblogger From India, joined Dec 2011, 1363 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 16260 times:

Quoting jetblast (Reply 4):
The average air passenger seems to get confused by fare codes (and understandably so, most people don't know the difference between an A, F, O, or W fare or why there is a price difference between them). If it helps Joe Blow using united.com to understand a bit better I'm all for it.

So then make viewing fare buckets opt-in, through a check box in "advanced search" or some such thing.

Coding a checkbox in advanced search would take all of 5 minutes for me to do. I can imagine a professional programmer working at UA could do it much sooner.



Airports 2012: IXE HYD DEL BLR BOM CCU KNU KTM BKK SIN ICN LAX BUR SFO PHX IAH ORD EWR PHL PVD BOS FRA MUC IST
User currently onlineAvianca From Venezuela, joined Jan 2005, 5922 posts, RR: 40
Reply 10, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 16136 times:

strange , just check yesterday some tickets and I still saw them.


Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
User currently offlineORDBOSEWR From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 426 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 15941 times:

Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 9):
So then make viewing fare buckets opt-in, through a check box in "advanced search" or some such thing.

Coding a checkbox in advanced search would take all of 5 minutes for me to do. I can imagine a professional programmer working at UA could do it much sooner.

The old UA.com did allow this in what was 'expert mode', in the new united.com (old co.com) it was available through a hyperlink on fare class. Now it just shows you the fare class for the flight.


User currently offlineAA94 From United States of America, joined Aug 2011, 577 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 15636 times:

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 5):
DL and AA display it during the booking process.

DL and AA display the fare codes of the class that you're currently booking a ticket into, but UA would show all fare buckets and the availability in each.

What UA (used to) show:




Choose a challenge over competence / Eleanor Roosevelt
User currently offlineinfinit From Singapore, joined Jul 2008, 544 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 14900 times:

Yeah, I remember this from my previous UA flight sometime back.

I guess they did this change is effected to automatically bump you up to a higher fare category and perhaps to make certain fare categories available only during selected promotions, like on certain days or by entering a code.

Then again, most other airlines don't make the fare codes available too.

Here on SQ, they only reveal the code at the end of the booking. But during the booking process, in Economy, they have different fare categories you can select subject to availability- Super Deals, Sweet Deals, Flexi Saver and Flexi. The first probably corresponds to fare code V, the most competitive promotional fares and the last as the name implies is full fare Y fares.


User currently offlinesunilgupta From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 775 posts, RR: 14
Reply 14, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 14850 times:

Quoting jetblast (Reply 4):
God forbid the self-anointed elites can't get their blessed free upgrade on their next trip.

self-anointed?? I can't just call up UA and say "hey, I want to be an elite"... What an immature statement. All of us who attain status on any airline put in the miles to get there. That means lots of hours in airports, in lines, away from home, etc, etc. Attaining elite status gives you perks, sure, but you have to pay your dues first!

Why shouldn't I be able to look at inventory to make use of my hard-earned "free" upgrade?
Sunil


User currently offlinelearjet1969 From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 8 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 14333 times:

The more tweaks the new UA makes, the more I like them less. Its like the 1,000,000 miles I have flown are meaningless. Each flight I have taken this year makes me question my loyalty, at least expertflyer.com still shows fare buckets (upgrade/awards have been removed).

User currently offlinebioyuki From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 156 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 14065 times:

Quoting ORDBOSEWR (Reply 2):
But, it wasn’t without issues. Specifically, for many customers who are not as familiar with the ins and outs of fare structures, there was often room for this information to be misinterpreted.

This is what we call PR spin.

Quoting ORDBOSEWR (Reply 2):
It also left the door open for undesired exposure that allowed automated scripts to scrape and re-display information in ways for which it was not intended.

And this is the real reason why UA dropped this information. Call me a conspiracy theorist but this is a sneaky move by UA to kill sites like ExpertFlyer.com. Shame on UA...being an elite is becoming increasingly useless and my dollars are moving accordingly from UA to VX...



Next flight: UA 726/84 SFO-EWR-TLV
User currently offlinekgaiflyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 4239 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 12904 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting AA94 (Reply 12):
What UA (used to) show:

Okay, here's how this works for me.

On my job, I buy the fare and submit my boarding passes and/or receipts to accounts-payable for reimbursement. Nobody really cares what fare code I flew. They do care how much I've spent vis-a-vis other employees making the same journey between the same points. And god help me if I turn in an invoice for an upgrade.

In other words, unless the fare puts me on standby or fails to give me a confirmed seat, then no one *no one* gives a hoot about fare codes.


User currently offlinerising From United States of America, joined May 2010, 269 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 11500 times:

Quoting jetblast (Reply 4):

The real solution to all of this will be the move to an award system based on dollars spent rather than miles flown. The system today is the like a retailer with a loyalty program where they base rewards on how many transaction you make, rather than the total sale. It's crazy. It worked for airlines in the past, but now that everyone is flying, it is outdated. Sure, there is a premium as far as miles earned if you meet certain criteria, but generally, my mile is worth the same as yours no matter how much we both paid.

In the US, Southwest is ahead of the curve on this, with the earning of points, rather than miles. Amtrak is also a good example. United Global Services is also a unique case among the network carriers. It can't come soon enough, for when it does, we can see, as they say, who is swimming naked.



If it doesn't make sense, it's because it's not true.
User currently offlinevgnatl747 From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 1513 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 11091 times:

Quoting rising (Reply 18):
The real solution to all of this will be the move to an award system based on dollars spent rather than miles flown. The system today is the like a retailer with a loyalty program where they base rewards on how many transaction you make, rather than the total sale. It's crazy. It worked for airlines in the past, but now that everyone is flying, it is outdated. Sure, there is a premium as far as miles earned if you meet certain criteria, but generally, my mile is worth the same as yours no matter how much we both paid.

First of all, I don't see how this is related at all to the issue at hand. Fare codes are important to show upgrade eligibility of a given itinerary; that's what all the fuss is about. How you earned your status is a mute point.

Secondly, there's both pros and cons to a award dollar system. I personally don't feel that it makes a huge difference. The vast majority of elites are business travelers. Business travelers tend to book last minute tickets which are more expensive (regardless of class flown).

Quoting kgaiflyer (Reply 17):
On my job, I buy the fare and submit my boarding passes and/or receipts to accounts-payable for reimbursement. Nobody really cares what fare code I flew. They do care how much I've spent vis-a-vis other employees making the same journey between the same points. And god help me if I turn in an invoice for an upgrade.

I'm in the exact same position here. Knowing the upgrade eligibility before purchasing is critical for me, for the same reasons. I'll be hung out to dry if I expense an F/J ticket or an upgrade.

Quoting jetblast (Reply 4):
God forbid the self-anointed elites can't get their blessed free upgrade on their next trip.

So not to be mean, but if I fly 40, 50, or more segments a year, and you fly 4, who's keeping the airline in business? It's the elite group that keeps an airline running, not the casual every day traveler, and that's where the rewards and perks come from. It has nothing to do with airlines feeling sorry for us being away from our families, it has everything to do with the fact that the revenue loyal flyers bring to the table is what keeps the airline flying.



Work Hard. Fly Right. Continental Airlines
User currently offlinekgaiflyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 4239 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 11091 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting rising (Reply 18):

The real solution to all of this will be the move to an award system based on dollars spent rather than miles flown. The system today is the like a retailer with a loyalty program where they base rewards on how many transaction you make, rather than the total sale. It's crazy. It worked for airlines in the past, but now that everyone is flying, it is outdated. Sure, there is a premium as far as miles earned if you meet certain criteria, but generally, my mile is worth the same as yours no matter how much we both paid.

In the US, Southwest is ahead of the curve on this, with the earning of points, rather than miles. Amtrak is also a good example. United Global Services is also a unique case among the network carriers. It can't come soon enough, for when it does, we can see, as they say, who is swimming naked.

On UA I fly hundreds of short trips and earn 'segments'. I like to think that obtaining the 97 segments I've flown so far this year was a lot more work and a lot more wearying than lying back, sleeping, and eating in a cushy transPacific first-class suite.

It's a bit arrogant to assume that domestic frequent flyers are nothing to the airline's bottom line or that our going through TSA a hundred times a year or spending hundreds of hours cramped into RJs deserves nothing but condescension and dismissal by bigger spenders.

Btw, I also fly WN and earn 'points' at about the same rate as I earn 'segments' on UA. So that's a red herring.

[Edited 2012-09-11 07:12:12]

User currently offlinecgagn From Canada, joined Sep 2003, 345 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 10937 times:

Quoting vgnatl747 (Reply 19):
So not to be mean, but if I fly 40, 50, or more segments a year, and you fly 4, who's keeping the airline in business? It's the elite group that keeps an airline running, not the casual every day traveler, and that's where the rewards and perks come from. It has nothing to do with airlines feeling sorry for us being away from our families, it has everything to do with the fact that the revenue loyal flyers bring to the table is what keeps the airline flying.

Well said!

C-GAGN



Widebodies flown on: A330-300,A340-300,A380-800,747-400,767-200ER,767-300ER,777-200A,777-200ER,777-200LR,777-300ER
User currently offlineflyfree727 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 658 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 10686 times:

Quoting sunilgupta (Reply 14):
self-anointed?? I can't just call up UA and say "hey, I want to be an elite"...

I cannot speak for UA, but at AA you certain could buy a status. In the past, if you were within a "range" of miles from making status/high status at years end, AA would allow you a "one time opportunity" to BUY your way to the next level for the following year. And the "one time" opportunity happened twice. I do not know if it is still offered at years end, but can confirm that it happened in the past. Maybe someone who is FF with UA can comment if UA ever had this offered as a threshold into elite status.

AA ORD


User currently offlineLHCVG From United States of America, joined May 2009, 1543 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 10665 times:

Quoting vgnatl747 (Reply 19):
So not to be mean, but if I fly 40, 50, or more segments a year, and you fly 4, who's keeping the airline in business? It's the elite group that keeps an airline running, not the casual every day traveler, and that's where the rewards and perks come from. It has nothing to do with airlines feeling sorry for us being away from our families, it has everything to do with the fact that the revenue loyal flyers bring to the table is what keeps the airline flying.

To be fair, let's remember that revenue (actually profit) plays into that calculation as well. In your example obviously you're keeping the airline in business, but someone flying 10-20 segments may well be putting more revenue, possibly far more profit, into the airline's coffers. Not trying to disagree here, just parsing your statement so we don't go down the "I fly x times a year so I'm the best" argument.

I think the issue arises when you have someone who flies every couple weeks on junk fares for $200 a pop (just a hypothetical), versus that person who only flies every couple months but flies longhaul J at several thousand dollars each trip. One person flies roughly 50 segments a year, while the other flies 10-12 segments, but the revenue is far greater, and you can bet the airline makes more profit off that J fare too. The latter person is who the airline is more interested in serving. That is my reading between the lines of what SMI/J is getting at with "overentitled" elite comments.


User currently offlineRDH3E From United States of America, joined Mar 2011, 1614 posts, RR: 3
Reply 24, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 10650 times:

Quoting bioyuki (Reply 16):
And this is the real reason why UA dropped this information. Call me a conspiracy theorist but this is a sneaky move by UA to kill sites like ExpertFlyer.com. Shame on UA...being an elite is becoming increasingly useless and my dollars are moving accordingly from UA to VX...
Quoting vgnatl747 (Reply 19):
I'm in the exact same position here. Knowing the upgrade eligibility before purchasing is critical for me, for the same reasons. I'll be hung out to dry if I expense an F/J ticket or an upgrade.

Lets look at this from a non-customer perspective. Who else besides sites like ExpertFlyer could benefit from knowing how UA is managing its inventory? Puzzler.... perhaps UA's competitors were using the same type of screen scrape scripts to discover more of the in's and out's of UA's RM/pricing strategy?

Wouldn't you guys say that is a valid concern that needs to be addressed?


25 mogandoCI : Definitely the wrong solution. Aspirational awards is a big driver of loyalty. The WN/B6 model only works because they're single class and don't belo
26 kgaiflyer : Most of the legacy airlines have both 'purchase' miles and 'account' miles. Every quarter UA has sales offering miles at a discounted cost available
27 mogandoCI : I'll amend to that - UA offers these "premier accelerator" miles that actually count towards status (except 1K). They're usually priced at ~10cpm. De
28 kgaiflyer : Unless like myself and thousands of others -- you never fly internationally -- ever.
29 vgnatl747 : Absolutely! My point wasn't arguing against the removal of the content, and I'll frequently use other sites to do that homework anyway, but there was
30 LHCVG : I think the PQMs are limited too, just like those earned from CC spend, so you can only top off as you mentioned and not literally buy your way into
31 Stitch : That is what programs like United Global Services and SQ's Priority Passenger Service are for. Entrance to those programs are based on your spend wit
32 flyingsux : They said know it was important and they're working on putting it back for those who value it... geez, what more do you want?[Edited 2012-09-11 07:49
33 mogandoCI : You're UA 1K but never fly international ? Really hope you're just being sarcastic.
34 Stitch : I knew scores of 1Ks (and many were also UGS) who never flew international. They mostly made 1K on segments as their jobs had them visiting scores of
35 mogandoCI : That's a rather sad state of affairs. If I were to fly that much, the last thing I want is to confine myself to the 50 states.
36 Joeljack : Just to rebuttal, I just spoke to a buddy that's Delta Diamond and he said so far this year he's flow 325,000 miles. 100% domestic. He's on a plane 3
37 Post contains images kgaiflyer : Sarcastic? Really? Not completely true then -- I have relatives in both Alberta and British Columbia Btw, I'm 69 and still working. I haven't flown T
38 BFinSF : Well, I do. As indicated in my original post, I refer to fare buckets every time I book a flight to evaluate the potential for future (and current) u
39 Post contains images brilondon : This is my feeling. Aren't fare codes only useful to the airline anyways? I don't understand why we need to know whether we are in a Q or an O or an
40 Stitch : Certain upgrades require certain minimum fare classes. And on some airlines, certain fare classes do not apply for mileage or elite qualification. Al
41 LHCVG : They may not be useful to you per se, but they can really come in handy. If you have any doubts about what Stitch or anyone else notes, just go check
42 flyfree727 : I understand that concept, of "buying" miles. Not what I was refering to.. My example with AA, was, at years end, just shy of retaining "elite" statu
43 Viscount724 : But how is that helpful? That's all handled internally. If you try to make an award booking, it shows you the flights with available seats. If a cert
44 LHCVG : Generally speaking for most people, yes that's all that matters. But again, if you are really getting into the nitty gritty of booking a limited-avai
45 hohd : The issue here is that by removing this information it is affecting only the elites and those are interested in getting upgrades or sameday change for
46 Post contains images Schweigend : They certainly do. I just did a flight search at UA's website, and, for each fare listed, the specific booking class is displayed, so the buyer does
47 sunilgupta : No you can't do that on UA and at least as long as I have been 1K (5-6 years) there was no option to buy up. The only way that I saw to make elite wi
48 LHCVG : That is incorrect - while you cannot buy status outright (e.g., "$x for Platinum! $y for Gold!") without doing ANY flying whatosever, Premier Acceler
49 nomadd22 : I just had an incident where I booked and confirmed a seat in Delta 1st class with the seat on my boarding pass, only to have the airline reasign me t
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