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Mid-Air Collision.. No Fatalities  
User currently offlineghifty From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 891 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 13482 times:

I'm honestly not quite sure what happened, and how no loss of life occurred.

"Two single-engine planes, flying side by side in the Netherlands, collide and become stuck together at the wings. Nobody was injured, but one plane was forced to crash land on the beach while the other safely landed at the airport."

Video link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Jkj63Vez98&feature=player_embedded

Can anyone determine type of aircraft? I assume it's a Cessna..

[Edited 2012-09-10 21:58:52]


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17 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineSSTeve From United States of America, joined Dec 2011, 706 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (2 years 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 13240 times:

http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archive.../cda_and_sp_advertising_planes.php

User currently offlinePH-BFA From Netherlands, joined Apr 2002, 562 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (2 years 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 13049 times:

Quoting ghifty (Thread starter):
Can anyone determine type of aircraft? I assume it's a Cessna..

Correct, the aircraft is a cessna 172. It looks like they never saw the aircraft flying in front of them.

Indeed quite a miracle that everyone escaped unharmed.. could have had a much different outcome..

PH-BFA


User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31684 posts, RR: 56
Reply 3, posted (2 years 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 12706 times:

Whats the TCAS requirements for the Aircraft type out there.....


Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineSemaex From Germany, joined Nov 2009, 823 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (2 years 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 12630 times:

Somebody's up for a very big pay check....

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 3):
Whats the TCAS requirements for the Aircraft type out there.....

There's no TCAS requirement for such small aircraft, and I doubt there really is a requirement at all for any aircraft, except when operating in certain airspaces, eg A/B/C/D in North America or Europe, but that's just my guess.
TCAS is an equipment that helps, but mustn't be used for relying on.



// You know you're an aviation enthusiast when you look at your neighbour's cars and think about fleet commonality.
User currently offlinePH-BFA From Netherlands, joined Apr 2002, 562 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (2 years 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 12597 times:

Quoting Semaex (Reply 4):
TCAS is an equipment that helps, but mustn't be used for relying on.

I assume you are talking about VFR / GA? Commercial airliners are certainly relying on TCAS, that is the whole purpose of it...


User currently offlinejgarrido From Guam, joined Mar 2007, 340 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (2 years 1 week 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 12407 times:

Quoting PH-BFA (Reply 5):

I suppose it depends on your definition of "relying", but in my experience and opinion as an air traffic controller if comercial aircraft were relying on (as in they are dependent on) TCAS to keep them safe then something is wrong.


User currently offlineje89_w From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 2361 posts, RR: 9
Reply 7, posted (2 years 1 week 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 12378 times:
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Quoting Semaex (Reply 4):
There's no TCAS requirement for such small aircraft, and I doubt there really is a requirement at all for any aircraft, except when operating in certain airspaces, eg A/B/C/D in North America or Europe, but that's just my guess.
TCAS is an equipment that helps, but mustn't be used for relying on.

There's no TCAS requirement for small aircraft (less than 30 pax) not operating in RVSM airspace.

And even if these guys were equipped with some form of TCAS, it looked pretty intentional (and stupid) to me.

These guys are lucky.


User currently offlinePH-BFA From Netherlands, joined Apr 2002, 562 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (2 years 1 week 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 12372 times:

Quoting jgarrido (Reply 6):
I suppose it depends on your definition of "relying", but in my experience and opinion as an air traffic controller if comercial aircraft were relying on (as in they are dependent on) TCAS to keep them safe then something is wrong.

Yes I agree it depends on the definition. What I mean is that when traffic conflicts occur, commercial airliners need to rely on the information given by the TCAS system. However I fully agree that in a perfect world there should not be any TCAS warnings  . Unfortunately that is not the case as we all know..


User currently offlineSemaex From Germany, joined Nov 2009, 823 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (2 years 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 12201 times:

Regarding TCAS and Mode S Transponders... isn't there some kind of legislation coming up (at least in JAR countries) where soon all aircraft have to be equipped with Mode S?

I know Mode S doesn't have anything to do with TCAS, but maybe someone can provide clarification whether TCAS will then also be a requirement? After all it's a hefty expensive piece of equipment.

Sorry if this is too off-topic.



// You know you're an aviation enthusiast when you look at your neighbour's cars and think about fleet commonality.
User currently offlineMountainFlyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 476 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (2 years 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 12090 times:

It's absolutely amazing no one was killed, but this isn't the first time for something like this. It seems there are numerous stories out there of mid-airs with few or no fatalities including one from WWII with two B-17 bombers become stuck in mid-air.

Probably one of the most famous ones that I'm aware of happened in 1999 in Florida when a Piper Cadet collided on top of a Cessna 152 and they became stuck but still landed with no fatalities.

This was the best non-member link I could find for that story.

http://www.premierflightct.com/newsl.../TrainingArticles/AvoidMidair.html



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User currently offlineZANL188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3525 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (2 years 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 8088 times:
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A very gentle mid air...


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User currently offlinepliersinsight From United States of America, joined May 2008, 494 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (2 years 1 week 3 days ago) and read 7192 times:

Newer G-1000 equipped 172s may have TIS (Traffic Information Service) but it requires you to be in an area where ASR-7, 8 or 9 radar is operating. You will see other traffic on your display, but no avoidance information is supplied. It will alert you with a TRAFFIC indication on the display and a voice through the headset which says, you guessed it TRAFFIC. You will also see if the target is above, below or at your altitude. You can also fake it out, if your rate of turn is fast enough you will see a ghost target at your altitude chasing you. (Freaked me out the first time it happened while practicing steep turns, especially since I hit my own wake just as the target showed up) However, it will not show everything....and does not work outside of the radar coverage areas as discussed.

Having used it myself a number of times, it is nice to have, but in areas where it works, you are in a relatively controlled environment to begin with so it is not going to save you during most of the flying one does outside of a coverage area, but any extra information that increases the level of safety is always welcome.


User currently offlineRickNRoll From Afghanistan, joined Jan 2012, 830 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (2 years 1 week 3 days ago) and read 6970 times:

IANAP, but shouldn't aircraft, even light planes like these, have some sort of seperation distance, with the primary responsibility resting with the pilot of the following plane?

User currently offlineMaverick623 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 5648 posts, RR: 6
Reply 14, posted (2 years 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 3925 times:

Quoting RickNRoll (Reply 13):
IANAP, but shouldn't aircraft, even light planes like these, have some sort of seperation distance, with the primary responsibility resting with the pilot of the following plane?

The correct terminology is "see and avoid". I don't know what type of airspace they were in, but even in controlled airspace (except for Class A and B), in VFR conditions, the responsibility is on the pilots to not hit anyone else.


That being said, that looked intentional.



"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
User currently offlineRickNRoll From Afghanistan, joined Jan 2012, 830 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (2 years 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 3556 times:

Deliberate on who's part? It looks to me like the passing plane went too close to the plane in front.

User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31684 posts, RR: 56
Reply 16, posted (2 years 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 2417 times:

Quoting Semaex (Reply 4):
TCAS is an equipment that helps, but mustn't be used for relying on.

TCAS helps when someone errors....



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlinercair1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2009, 1323 posts, RR: 52
Reply 17, posted (2 years 1 week 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 2287 times:
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Quoting MountainFlyer (Reply 10):
Probably one of the most famous ones that I'm aware of happened in 1999 in Florida when a Piper Cadet collided on top of a Cessna 152 and they became stuck but still landed with no fatalities.

This was the best non-member link I could find for that story.

http://www.premierflightct.com/newsl.../TrainingArticles/AvoidMidair.html

Interesting - but a search of the NTSB database for accidents in Plant City Florida shows nothing. Any ideas if this is real?



rcair1
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