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Frontier/Republic Thread Part 38  
User currently offlineairliner371 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 1278 posts, RR: 1
Posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 18935 times:

The previous thread has become quite long and difficult to manage for some users. Please feel free to add your contributions to the new thread.

Part 37 can be found here: New Frontier/Republic Thread Part 37


You will either love or hate the airline industry. If you love it, it will get in your blood and it will never leave.
283 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 24631 posts, RR: 86
Reply 1, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 18768 times:
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Frontier has introduced FlyFrontier.com. This article explains it:

http://www.4-traders.com/REPUBLIC-AI...yFrontier-com-as-New-URL-15190769/

"Frontier Airlines today unveiled FlyFrontier.com as the airline's new website address. The announcement comes as the Denver-based carrier continues to improve and further differentiate the products offered through its website, making FlyFrontier.com the best place to book Frontier travel for more choice, more perks and more value."

And this article talks about the need to push traffic away from the third party travel sites to Frontier's own website - it saves Frontier money and it is the place to book Classic/Classic Plus - which brings in more money::

http://www.washingtonpost.com/busine...-11e1-98c6-ec0a0a93f8eb_story.html

"Frontier Airlines is the latest carrier to jump into the fight, announcing Wednesday that it will penalize passengers who don’t book directly with the airline. Those fliers won’t be able to get seat assignments until check-in. And they’ll pay more in fees while earning half as many frequent flier miles.

“Particularly for families, it provides an incentive to book directly,” said Daniel Shurz, Frontier’s senior vice president, commercial. “There is no logical reason for our customers to want to book anywhere else."


I think "penalize" is a bit strong - LOL - true, perhaps, but strong.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineairliner371 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 1278 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 18696 times:

Quote:
Frontier Airlines today unveiled FlyFrontier.com

They did a poll on there social media a while back... somehow I knew it would lead to this.

I will tell you this, I don't like how they replaced their logo with flyfrontier.com on their website.

[Edited 2012-09-12 03:59:46]


You will either love or hate the airline industry. If you love it, it will get in your blood and it will never leave.
User currently offlinemikefrommke From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 351 posts, RR: 12
Reply 3, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 6 hours ago) and read 18640 times:

It looks like they've also lowered their award flying tiers to 10k miles o/w and 20k roundtrip, but removed the free bags:

http://www.flyfrontier.com/frequent-flyers/use-your-miles/redeem-miles


User currently offlineGentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2922 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 6 hours ago) and read 18613 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 1):
Frontier has introduced FlyFrontier.com
Quoting airliner371 (Reply 2):
I don't like how they replaced their logo with flyfrontier.com on their website.

A pattern is emerging across aviation. Across the last couple of years I've noticed more airports website URL which have migrated to the flyxxxxxx.com format including BNA and PHF. BNA is www.flynashville.com and PHF is flynewportnews.com or something close. I'm sure there are many others.

Quoting mariner (Reply 1):
"Frontier Airlines is the latest carrier to jump into the fight, announcing Wednesday that it will penalize passengers who don’t book directly with the airline. Those fliers won’t be able to get seat assignments until check-in.

Lets hope F9 has thought about their military/government travels who are generally required to book through a government contracted travel agent. I suppose that sect of fliers will be exempt and will be given seat assignments. DEN-DCA is a heavily flown route I hate to see F9 loose market share to WN (when that service is established) as F9 has four daily flights to the nations capital.



Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24312 posts, RR: 47
Reply 5, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 18564 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 1):
“There is no logical reason for our customers to want to book anywhere else."

   
How about the biz passenger which due to travel policy, or contracts must utilize 3rd party site or vendor to handle the booking ?

Who knows - maybe with new ULCC model, and thinned out schedule such set of clients are no longer much of a focus for F9, but its an odd thing to say imo.

Even SWA knows this - and provides support and corporate tools via the SWABIZ website and has GDS links as it realizes a decent sized subset of travelers cannot book directly.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineRJNUT From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 1193 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 18561 times:

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 4):
Lets hope F9 has thought about their military/government travels who are generally required to book through a government contracted travel agent. I

if the passenger is booked in "Y" class on Frontier , seats assignmets will still be available and the "YCA" government fares should then qualify

you can also negotiate in contracts access to preferred seats..we have such an agreement with American. Dont know if Frontier has that capability or know -how?!


User currently offlineazstar From United States of America, joined May 2005, 597 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 18547 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 5):
How about the biz passenger which due to travel policy, or contracts must utilize 3rd party site or vendor to handle the booking ?

Who knows - maybe with new ULCC model, and thinned out schedule such set of clients are no longer much of a focus for F9, but its an odd thing to say imo.

Even SWA knows this - and provides support and corporate tools via the SWABIZ website and has GDS links as it realizes a decent sized subset of travelers cannot book directly.

Frontier alienated their business travelers a long time ago when they reduced frequencies on almost every route, and went to the less than daily model. A business travel simply can't fly F9 in most cases, even if they wanted to.


User currently offlineGentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2922 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 18496 times:

Quoting azstar (Reply 7):
A business travel simply can't fly F9 in most cases, even if they wanted to.

Outside of any mandatory use contracts ; on business I would generally book with a carrier who offered multiple frequencies. With that said I have flown WN once daily SEA-BNA non-stop on many occasions because I hate airport waiting and potential delays add to that flying south (DFW or IAH) to go north or vice versa.

For those on government business the civil service work rules allows for less frequent flight schedules under the standard workday rule which states a civil service employee may, but does not have to travel outside of their standard workday be it eight , ten or twelve hours. They must weigh this against the governments prudent person rule a.k.a. stewardship of funds rule which states government travelers assigned to the Executive branch must show prudence and travel is if they were paying for it themselves. This usually means courtesy hotel shuttles vice taxi cabs. As a prior travel manager and Authorized Certifying Officer I've have disallowed what I determined was fluff.

On leisure travel F9 infrequent schedule in most markets is not a show stopper.



Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
User currently offlinerampart From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 3067 posts, RR: 7
Reply 9, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 18383 times:

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 8):
On leisure travel F9 infrequent schedule in most markets is not a show stopper.

I don't know how many leisure flyers consider this, if they had more choices per day, a schedule snafu even for a leisure traveler would be better, and I think about these things, and am warry about booking a flight on a once/day (or less) airline like F9 or Allegiant (or similar). If I'm flying my family back and forth on a holiday -- say Christmas season -- and something happens that scratches the one daily flight there or (worse) back. Or maybe it isn't even daily. As I understand it, a weather situation would be "act of God", F9 wouldn't be obligated to rebook on another airline, would rebook on themselves, but options would be much less. That said, rebooking out of a hub with a much larger airline (like UA or AA) is near impossible, too, as I've experienced DEN or EWR during a storm shutdown. Not much difference. But what about a mechanical? Would F9 willingly rebook on another airline if they have no choice that day, or even the next day?

-Rampart


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 24631 posts, RR: 86
Reply 10, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week ago) and read 18346 times:
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Quoting LAXintl (Reply 5):
How about the biz passenger which due to travel policy, or contracts must utilize 3rd party site or vendor to handle the booking ?

I dont't think he is talking to them. Frontier is a leisure airline. The places on the route map that have the most destinations (outside of DEN) are MCO, CUN and PUJ.

It's never been high frequency (to the non-leisure destinations) and every time it has tried that, it hasn't worked.

It was the problem at MKE and BB understood that and thought he could change it - and he was wrong.

Frontier is removing itself from the fray and embracing what it always was, at heart, and over the course of the next few weeks, I expect it to become even more obvious.

Bottom feeding? Sure. Not exactly like Allegiant and Spirit, but close.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 25
Reply 11, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week ago) and read 18317 times:

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 2):
I don't like how they replaced their logo with flyfrontier.com on their website.

Holy crap! That's one ugly website header! And it took awhile for the entire site to load up. Swell.



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24312 posts, RR: 47
Reply 12, posted (1 year 7 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 18276 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 10):
I dont't think he is talking to them. Frontier is a leisure airline.

Yes fair enough.

I guess with F9 also showing the Delta exit door to Early Return members, the business segment is not something F9 is looking to foster. Yet another tactical change as F9 continues to evolve.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 24631 posts, RR: 86
Reply 13, posted (1 year 7 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 18266 times:
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Quoting LAXintl (Reply 12):
I guess with F9 also showing the Delta exit door to Early Return members, the business segment is not something F9 is looking to foster. Yet another tactical change as F9 continues to evolve.

MKE again.

MKE showed the essential schizophrenia of Frontier trying to be both. Nor do I think it is just the Early Returns thing - I'd love to know what was said between Frontier and Delta and US about MKE (and MCI) and DCA and E190's and a bunch of other stuff.

And what Frontier got in return, assuming it got something.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineScottB From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 6574 posts, RR: 32
Reply 14, posted (1 year 7 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 18167 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 1):
Frontier has introduced FlyFrontier.com.

This seems a bit of going back to the future. They've had flyfrontier.com for years and years in addition to frontierairlines.com.

Quoting mariner (Reply 10):
Frontier is removing itself from the fray and embracing what it always was, at heart, and over the course of the next few weeks, I expect it to become even more obvious.

I wouldn't say that Frontier was always a leisure airline; back in the day, the company used to boast of the number of corporate contracts it had signed. They were always focused on price-sensitive passengers -- this is true -- but this focus wasn't limited to leisure travel.


User currently offlinemikefrommke From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 351 posts, RR: 12
Reply 15, posted (1 year 7 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 18152 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 13):
And what Frontier got in return, assuming it got something.

I would bet part of the deal was relieving Frontier of the some of the lease payments in MKE.


User currently offlineGentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2922 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (1 year 7 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 18085 times:

Quoting rampart (Reply 9):


My experience and has happened twice across twenty or so years is the airline would rebook you on another carrier. I've never had it happen on F9 thus I don't know their policy. I would think all airline contracts of carriage don't vary that much as most of it is driven by law. What the carrier has to do.

We got stuck in ORD once on a one-stop with no change of aircraft for snow on a SEA-DCA flight. After two long days in O'Hare we finally got back in the air. When I got back home I wrote AA and ask for reimbursement for my hotel. They paid me. Did they have to; I don't know. I can only assume they did because they could not meet their contract of carriage requirement which involved getting me from point A to B without minimal delay.



Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 24631 posts, RR: 86
Reply 17, posted (1 year 7 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 18029 times:
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Quoting ScottB (Reply 14):
I wouldn't say that Frontier was always a leisure airline; back in the day, the company used to boast of the number of corporate contracts it had signed. They were always focused on price-sensitive passengers -- this is true -- but this focus wasn't limited to leisure travel.

Um - I think I said that there were several attempts to be something other, as in my comments on frequency.

And surely BB believed it when he explained the dichotomy between Frontier and Midwest, with which I agree.

mariner

[Edited 2012-09-12 18:34:03]


aeternum nauta
User currently offlinesmoot4208 From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 1268 posts, RR: 12
Reply 18, posted (1 year 7 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 17992 times:

On a side note, Yesterday the DOT awarded Skywest the EAS contract for Iron Mountain, Brainard, International Falls, and Rhinelander. Skywest won't flake out of RHI like ZK did, so F9 should be able to finally discontinue MKE-RHI by early next year.

User currently offlineGentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2922 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (1 year 7 months 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 17872 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 1):
"Frontier Airlines is the latest carrier to jump into the fight, announcing Wednesday that it will penalize passengers who don’t book directly with the airline. Those fliers won’t be able to get seat assignments until check-in. And they’ll pay more in fees while earning half as many frequent flier miles.

Here's a little more from F9 web URL http://www.flyfrontier.com/plan-book...20912_a&utm_campaign=buyonfrontier If you click on the 'learn more" tab it will populate a flow chart of the various options



Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
User currently offlineIllinoisMan From United States of America, joined Feb 2012, 142 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (1 year 7 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 17688 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 1):
"Frontier Airlines is the latest carrier to jump into the fight, announcing Wednesday that it will penalize passengers who don’t book directly with the airline.
Quoting azstar (Reply 7):
Frontier alienated their business travelers a long time ago when they reduced frequencies on almost every route, and went to the less than daily model. A business travel simply can't fly F9 in most cases, even if they wanted to.

Penalize customers and make it more expensive to buy your product. Sure. That makes sense. If they want to stay competitive, don't penalize people who don't book flights through their website. Give fliers discounts who DO book directly through their website. I use Kayak to find the lowest fares and I guess F9 won't be a consideration from now on...


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 24631 posts, RR: 86
Reply 21, posted (1 year 7 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 17690 times:
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As I said in the previous thread, SBA is getting the A319 (1 x daily) in January and it really scratches my itch.

I've always liked SBA as a destination for Frontier - good summer leisure and, presumably, some business traffic. It's tough to think that winter sustains on leisure and VFR.

Plus the airport has just spent all that money on the new terminal and at least they're getting one mainline aircraft out of it.  

BUT I was concerned to see that United is only flying 1 x daily CRJ DEN-SBA this winter. Can't swear to it, but I thought that United has always flown 2 x daily, even in winter.

So the question is, can SBA sustain the A319 in winter? I hope so and IF it can, maybe we can look forward to SBA-LAS a couple of times a week, it wouldn't be hard to schedule. Not that I went SBA to be too successful because then You-Know-Who Airlines would be casting covetous eyes on it.

I'm less optimistic about the A319 at PVU and I assume it is only a matter of time before DSM comes under assault from the airline mentioned above. I can't see that DSM could sustain three airlines, just as I struggle to think that SDF can.

Or, even if any of these can sustain three airlines - is it worth it? Frontier could probably get the loads, but yield would probably go gurgling down the dunny.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineCarsAir04 From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 161 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (1 year 7 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 17673 times:

Quoting IllinoisMan (Reply 20):
Penalize customers and make it more expensive to buy your product. Sure. That makes sense. If they want to stay competitive, don't penalize people who don't book flights through their website. Give fliers discounts who DO book directly through their website. I use Kayak to find the lowest fares and I guess F9 won't be a consideration from now on...

But why can't someone look on Kayak or Expedia etc to find the lowest fare, then go directly to the website of that carrier, whether it be UA or F9 etc, and purchase the ticket with the benefits of booking direct on the website?

What if the news had made the article title "Frontier Rewards Passengers for booking on their site" Really is the same message, just worded in a more positive way. No change really.

[Edited 2012-09-13 15:23:26]

User currently offlineNWADTWE16 From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 242 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (1 year 7 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 17588 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 5):
How about the biz passenger which due to travel policy, or contracts must utilize 3rd party site or vendor to handle the booking ?

This is already the case with all airlines that charge for so called 'premium' seats anyway. We are just advising each corporate client one by one to get used to getting their seats from the airlines website direct


User currently offlineGentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2922 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (1 year 7 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 17571 times:

Quoting IllinoisMan (Reply 20):
I use Kayak to find the lowest fares

I realize we all have our favorite research and booking engines. Why not use something like this http://matrix.itasoftware.com/ and then call the airline.

You cannot book travel on the ITA software but it will provide almost everything you ever wanted to know about a particular flight.



Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
25 mariner : How is it "more expensive" to buy the product? You can still book through Kayak, it's just that you won't get all the goodies. But then - you never c
26 WALmsp : Since the landing pattern for SBA passes right by my window, I look forward to the A319. As for sustainability in winter, who knows? Santa Barbara is
27 rampart : Was F9 ever a consideration for you, Strawman... er, I mean, IllinoisMan? More generally, do you always limit yourself to just one portal? I sometime
28 GentFromAlaska : Does anyone know if F9 markets/sells gift cards in retail merchant locations such as Fred Meyers, Publics, Kroger and or King Sooper (A Colorado groce
29 LAXintl : Santa Barbara on the 319 during the winter will be quite interesting. The market is an extremely seasonal one with enplanements over the winter only a
30 Post contains links mariner : As I suspected, PVU goes in January: http://www.heraldextra.com/news/loca...2-16cb-5c93-83c8-141268b74c86.html "Frontier Airlines to stop Provo fligh
31 kkephart13 : CAK, PHL and DAY i heard is closing 1/6 as well.
32 mariner : CAK I believe yes, but I hadn't heard DAY. I understood PHL goes seasonal. mariner
33 airliner371 : Both just got WN service to DEN...
34 slcdeltarumd11 : "Curtis added that even Frontier executives had never seen the reception and speed of growth like in Provo. "We've averaged 75 percent full or more ev
35 ScottB : The problem with a United service to Southern California (and almost certainly LAX if it were to happen) would be pricing. United's pricing would alm
36 smoot4208 : With losing 5 (and possible 10), E190s, cuts have to be made.
37 airliner371 : I believe all 10 are now confirmed.
38 mariner : Indeed. I've been advocating that they drop CAK since Southwest/Airtran announced it. I'd prefer CLE. But I had not heard DAY - I have heard a couple
39 rj777 : How many E190's does F9 have left (even after the planned departures)? Does it look like they're trying to move to an all Airbus fleet again?
40 Bobloblaw : If the E90s are leaving the fleet, who will Republic be flying E90s for? I would love to see them at AA flying under the Eagle banner
41 LAXintl : Provo-Denver was never the communities first choice. As part of the SCASD grant, Provo first preference was a link to the LA Basin, Vegas or the Bay A
42 airliner371 : With the 10 retirements they will have 5. Yes I think they are going to all Airbus. What I don't know is why waste the money on Gogo on the e190 if t
43 smoot4208 : I haven't heard anything on CAK, DAY, or PHL yet
44 mariner : There hasn't been a press release - I assume there will be one, but maybe not. I had heard five cities will go or go seasonal. It isn't just the E190
45 airliner371 : Considering Provo is not out of the schedule yet, they are probably going to announce all cuts at once.
46 airliner371 : How does GRR do? I could see GRR going because WN is going in soon and they don't seem to compete with WN.
47 mariner : It isn't on any list I've seen. However, I'd be surprised - as in fall over in shock - if DEN-GRR could support two carriers. mariner
48 slcdeltarumd11 : Provo is still bookable here (friday night) past that date in a 319 so like others said it could be announced in some other Denver based cuts of citie
49 F9animal : SBA to LAS won't work for an Airbus. When I worked for OO in the mid 1990's, we flew the route with 19 seat Metros, and eventually the EMB 120. Loads
50 mariner : You mau be right, F9Animal. But if they were not at least optimistic about it, it would be going this week-end. mariner
51 F9animal : I still wish F9 would get some C Series! The 190 is not a bad plane, and seems to do good for F9. I just lime the flexibility I guess. And the 190 ha
52 n917me : Closing cities announced.. SDF. CAK. PHL. SMF PVU acronym> .. JAN 6-7 2013[Edited 2012-09-14 19:40:02][Edited 2012-09-14 19:41:19]
53 airliner371 : No big surprises. WN is doing DEN to SDF. What I find funny is F9 was going to do SDF-DCA. Do you have a source?[Edited 2012-09-14 19:42:54]
54 mariner : Um - I don't think PHL is closing, just DEN-PHL is axed (I heard seasonally). As I understand it, PHL-CUN/PUJ remain. mariner
55 airliner371 : Surprised at no DAY.
56 n917me : Our employee site Mariner.. the site says discontinued service..n mention on charters
57 mariner : DEN-PHL is discontinued. But PHL-CUN/PUJ is not just charter - it is also Frontier scheduled service. As I understand it, they are still flying, unle
58 n917me : True.. no mention in the memo.. just that they will.try to.find jobs within the company.for those employees affected.. hopefully PHL is good for CUN/
59 mariner : Anything is possible, I suppose, but I would be extremely surprised if they cancelled PHL-CUN/PUJ. Basically, Apple covers the cost of them and anyth
60 IllinoisMan : As I wrote when this started, it won't last long! Bad choice for connections, many other issues and F9/RW has a track record of jumping in and out of
61 Post contains images OzarkD9S : So 2 markets east of DEN and 2 west of DEN get the axe. It concerns me a bit as the route map is already tilted towards the east out of DEN and I'm wo
62 GentFromAlaska : According to my airport distance calculator the distance between PHL and TTN is 35 statute miles (50 km) nixing PHL-DEN could be the precurser from D
63 Post contains images rampart : This, or ABE, would be very interesting. I'd certainly look at it, as an alternate to EWR for me. But maybe the cuts just now have made enough room f
64 airliner371 : With SMF going I wouldn't be surprised if they left SNA as well. I could also see PHX and DAY going. If WN does GRR-DEN, I could see them leaving GRR
65 Post contains images FRNT787 : Provo stuck for a decent while. The great people there used the service quite well. Over the next 6-12 months, 16 aircraft are leaving the fleet. (10
66 MSYtristar : PVU started with E90, then went to Q400 for quite a while. Load factor wise, the Q was a better fit. Once those left the fleet, it was back to E90. No
67 Post contains images mariner : I agree about PHL - great in summer, fell off a cliff in winter - four carriers. SDF - I said here that I struggle to believe it can support three ca
68 slcdeltarumd11 : I certainly agree with you. I think Provo showed it has great potential and people want to use the airport. I think it has potential for a california
69 Post contains links mariner : I haven't really followed the SMF airport charges - I've been aware of them, is all. Provoked by my chum, I did a little checking and it makes alarmi
70 GentFromAlaska : If memory serves me CAK came about because CFO Tate was originally from the area. How times change some six months ago we were talking about CAK poss
71 kkephart13 : I heard from an employee at CAK, that the load factor in July and August for the CAK-DEN route, was 98%. That in those 2 months, they only had a TOTA
72 kingcavalier : A 98% LF in CAK tells me F9 feels the yields aren't there long term with WN now on the route. It's not like F9 can do anything more to boost the LF. T
73 GentFromAlaska : CLE and CAK are separated by 40 statute miles (56 km). I guess the CAK employees that choose to do so would be able to commute to CLE. As of now WN d
74 airliner371 : I add ATL to that list as well. I think ATL will be gone soon.
75 airlinewatcher1 : I didn't see any press release about this. Now let's see if WN jumps in on DEN-CLE.
76 azstar : Load factor is not the problem for Frontier. Their load factors have always been high. The problem is yield. Their infrequent schedules allow them to
77 FRNT787 : Whenever Frontier has gone for high frequency, they lose money. With this strategy, they are positioning themselves for the new reality at Denver. So
78 mariner : Yes! I suppose we have to assume that Southwest will start DEN-CLE as well, if only to kick Frontier in the nuts, but hey, such is life. It may be fo
79 airlinewatcher1 : I always thought Akron/Canton was a hit for Frontier. The airport was happy to have them as it provided a link to Denver with convenient connections t
80 mariner : Frontier probably should start CVG, given the Apple flying from there - which is a motivator in the move to CLE. But we saw how Delta went nuclear wh
81 slcdeltarumd11 : Good question. Its tough to guess but i think the DEN-CVG might be able to sneak in since the airport is CVG and its 2012. Delta really seems to have
82 mariner : And Delta's assaut on MCI - as an immediate result of Frontier's MCI-MSP - happened just over a year ago Throughout its history, whenever Frontier ha
83 intheair10 : And you heard this information where? If this is the case, there's going to be some irate senior E-190 DEN crews once they receive word that the base
84 Post contains links FRNT787 : http://rjet.com/investorrelations.html On this page there is a link to the investor presentation that Bryan Bedford gave 2 weeks ago. Slide 8 shows th
85 toltommy : Was is the operative word in each sentence. CAK has WN now, and jumps when they say jump.
86 FWAERJ : FWA was one of the first, when they changed their website to flyfwa.com in 2006 (initially for a booking engine - they then switched the rest of the
87 airliner371 : The DOT has agreed to process Republic’s request to replace DCA-MKE altogether by changing the designated destination for one slot to OMA and one sl
88 Joeljack : Won't this add a F9 second daily from OMA to go back the 2x daily? It's been 2x daily for 20 years, going to 1x daily this fall because 1 republic sl
89 airliner371 : What I believe happening and correct me if I am wrong is they gave one pair of slots away and they just got a pair but only one slot is to MSN and on
90 enilria : Well I think that CAK spent a lot of money on F9 over the years. I wonder if F9 made this decision on its own or if CAK cut its spending on F9 under
91 N766UA : Except that employees don't live at the airport. If they live in Canton or south of Canton, for example, you're talking about 15-30 minutes to get to
92 mariner : The first Christmas that Southwest was at DEN, I wrote a long, very long fantasy piece on Yahoo Finance - "The Adventures of Herb Skywalker" - descri
93 nkops : Or ACY-DEN.... I am hoping since Republic is supposedly basing 2 E-190's in ACY starting Jan (the casino deal) that they will start something else...
94 GentFromAlaska : F9 still offers 4x daily to MDW-DEN in both directions; MDW being WN largest base. F9 also seems to be thriving in SEA where WN has reduced service.
95 slcdeltarumd11 : I am really wishing for acy and cvg. both southwest free
96 Post contains links mcg : Interesting article on BZN and MSO: http://missoulian.com/news/local/mis...2-ffb1-11e1-b5e3-001a4bcf887a.html Note that the Bozeman airport director s
97 LAXintl : Republic asked the DOT to dismiss its July request to move a single DCA slot from MKE to OMA. Instead Republic now asks DOT to consider replacing MKE
98 mariner : As separation comes closer, it does raise the interesting question of what will happen to those Republic slots. I suppose it is possible that Republi
99 GentFromAlaska : In the current economy the Bennie's such as free flights for the employee and their families have to be added to that $10 -$12 an hour would have to
100 N766UA : I'm sure it would, it's always cheaper to keep who you have! But does that mean F9 pays them more or otherwise compensates them? I dunno, obviously I
101 mariner : It's an interesting idea. Maybe there's a parallel with Qantas, who is dropping it's service to FRA - because of the changed competitive landscape, F
102 slcdeltarumd11 : I think there was a time where frontier wanted to be competative for frequent flyers too hence when they had the 8x ish daily to LAX and LAS etc. AKA
103 mariner : In the case of LAS, it only hit the 10 x daily during Spring Break, which I don't think was business travellers and I doubt they make big bucks out o
104 SANFan : Tomorrow (Sep 18) will see COS-SAN service start, replacing the discontinued COS-PDX (seasonal) route. The SAN flights will essentially be duplicates
105 F9Fan : Well, you got your wish. Personally, CLE is closer to where I live, so I am happy (or at least happier). The main cities from CLE on WN are MDW, BWI,
106 mariner : I'll stick with history and Frontier's history with Delta is a very ugly one. Hopefully, that may have changed. mariner
107 smoot4208 : SEA got extended so obviously the loads were there. Not sure if the two routes made money or not though. I never heard anything about PDX though. Als
108 enilria : I'm glad you have come around to my point of view. I've never thought that WN decided to do this out of spite, they simply targeted the weakest playe
109 mariner : There you go again - putting words in my mouth, again. One mo' time - I don't think that Southwest came to DEN to kill Frontier. If it had, it would
110 smoot4208 : I think what he's saying is that in CAK both WN and F9 had 2 flights a day. F9 probably got pushed down to the minority player on the route once WN s
111 Post contains images mariner : And at PHL. mariner[Edited 2012-09-17 21:17:20]
112 GentFromAlaska : DCA-MKE at 625 statute miles (885 km) and DCA-OMA at 995 statute miles (1410 km) are both inter perimeter where DCA-DEN is not. I don't think inner a
113 toltommy : WN flies CAK-DEN only once a day. For now. With that much capacity leaving the market, they've got to be looking for a way to add a second flight.
114 flyinryan99 : I don't doubt they will add a second flight. I guess we will see what kind of workings they are going to go with their operations for the next spring
115 Post contains images enilria : But you admit that you expect them to add CLE-DEN because F9 is starting it, so you admit they are targetting F9. F9 employees would have been far be
116 airliner371 : What he is saying is that all DCA flights other then DEN will end. I have to agree. MCO would not work because its is served very well and nothing el
117 mariner : The issue is whether they came to DEN to kill Frontier, which you have claimed and I resist - I don't know why you keep trying to enlist me to your c
118 Post contains images AirframeAS : You STILL don't get it, don't you?! Under the WN deal, Southwest would have killed off the F9 brand and only a very small amount of F9 employees woul
119 FRNT787 : I always enjoy that somebody feels the need to bring this up every 3 months. I think it simply goes back to that Airline Elitism thing I talked about
120 mariner : So did the bk judge. It went into Frontier's books as legitimate, court approved debt. mariner
121 Flytravel : I think ABE-FLL would be more popular than ABE-DEN, and given the shorter length more feasible year round if attempted by F9. Another reason against
122 FWAERJ : G4 plans on launching a frequent-vacation program soon, with a heavy emphasis on packages (if you book as a package, you get far more points). Anyway
123 airliner371 : Supposedly this is not going to happen but it would make so much sense I don't know why they don't just pick up and move to ORD.
124 kingcavalier : I used to think F9 should move ops from MDW to ORD but now I'm not so sure. ORD is further from downtown than MDW. ORD is more expensive than MDW. AA,
125 Buddys747 : I wish F9 would keep MDT-DEN year round. Maybe with PHL-DEN being dropped, it could happen, though I would think by now they would have done it, consi
126 N766UA : I doubt that's the only reason. The contract isn't permanent, and if F9 thought they could make more money at CAK long-term I'm sure they'd stay.
127 mariner : It's the dominant reason and the contract has another six years to run. It isn't just CLE-CUN/PUJ. The aircraft at CLE also funds the PIT, CVG and (a
128 RJNUT : "Hello, 1980's is calling and wants their dead-heading back" doesnt;t happen in this new arena of aviation... a loss leader!
129 Post contains images mariner : The Apple contract pays for it. mariner
130 smoot4208 : WN is becoming more of a hub and spoke airline, and DEN makes more sense to flow people through to the west coast rather than through PHX and LAS. Wh
131 N766UA : Wow, 6 years? I didn't realize it was that long. That's SOP for any charter operator I think. Allegro, Trans Meridian, and USA3000 have all flown CLE
132 Post contains images mariner : It is a seven year contract and this coming winter is the second year. mariner
133 N766UA : I guess I never considered it could be that long given that every previous airline that held the contract went out of business after a few years… W
134 slcdeltarumd11 : If frontier were to start ACY-MCO how would spirit react? It almost seems to hard to imagine them doing nothing but Spirit has prooven ACY-Florida has
135 Post contains images wnflyguy : Yesterday I flew F9 MDW-DEN-SNA. Talking with the MDW agents at the C gates they said they were told they would that by Jan they would be moving opera
136 airlinewatcher1 : With the loss of PVU and SMF, it seems like F9's spokes in the western half of the country are steadily becoming more sparse. SJC, BOI, RNO, and TUC a
137 rampart : Anything Northeast to Anything Florida will be popular. What I was thinking, in addition to that, these cities desire a western connecting option. Th
138 slcdeltarumd11 : I guess we should classify this as a rumor but it would make some sense and go with recent trends......consolidate operations and get further away fr
139 Post contains images mariner : I haven't heard much about Spokane (I assume it is okay) and the last figures I have for Bellingham were for July - average 129.5 pax per flight on t
140 airliner371 : Right now we don't know if they will do any FLL p2p flying. So far we can only assume they are doing MCO only. That would make sense time wise and ju
141 nkops : Probably not... remember, FL tried ACY-MCO and when they did Spirit added a third flight and upgraded two of them to a 321 at the time...... Spirit O
142 Flytravel : When FL attempted ACY-MCO, it was competing against itself as well, with 2x ACY-ATL->Florida, and a greater number of FL flights to both ATL, MCO o
143 Flytravel : To some extent that is true, but if F9 or WN attemped say MDT-MDW, the carrier would still see that UA would price-match MDT-ORD while offering more
144 mcg : I believe that WN doesn't really care if F9 is dead or alive, they certainly wouldn't set out on a campaign to 'kill' F9 as doing so would probably b
145 enilria : Exactly Then why chase them to CLE as you say they will? As you know I was referring to CAK-DEN. They were only flying that because of F9. They had t
146 Post contains links AirframeAS : I'm talking about the WHOLE thing, unlike you where you're talking about only parts of it.....given your posting history on this one very subject. I'
147 mariner : I don't think they will chase Frontier out of DEN-CLE, even if they start it. "Kicking someone in the nuts" can be nasty but it isn't usually fatal.
148 Post contains images mariner : Frontier would need a trigger to go to the DOT/DOJ as with Sam Addoms in 1998 when he complained about United's predatory practices. I don't know whe
149 freakyrat : Some Good News for F9: The Animals should be happy. The DEN-SBN-DEN flights operated with Airbus A319 aircraft on both the inaugural weekend Oct 11th
150 IllinoisMan : F9 may have have cute and cuddly animals on the tails of their planes, but the feeling you get after flying with them is getting less warm and less f
151 airliner371 : Hmmm.... Maybe this is why you bash F9. YX was dyeing with or without Republic/Frontier. Something tells me you wouldn't book anyway so it doesn't re
152 F9animal : Idiots buying false promises? Care to elaborate on who the idiots are? Let me add on to this. Had WN gotten F9, 99% of the employees would have been
153 CarsAir04 : exactly, just go to the Frontier website and book, like that is a chore to do. But you now get a round trip flight with miles for 20,000, that is bet
154 enilria : There is no basis to think that WN would have fired 99% of the employees and the AirTran merger points to quite the opposite.
155 smoot4208 : Difference in being that FL brought growth to WN. F9/WN would have neen synergies. WN buying F9 would be comparable to DL buying FL. DL would not have
156 CarsAir04 : I guess the question is that if you have flights out of DEN and you are only adding a couple extra flight, just as an example. You may only need 4 or
157 Cubsrule : They are different in kind, I think. The F9 merger was about nothing but eliminating the competition. The FL merger was about ATL access, with elimin
158 AirframeAS : Enliria, listen man..... WN CEO Kelly was the one that explicitly said that none if the F9 employees were going to keep their jobs. It was on a FAQ t
159 Post contains images mariner : There's a wonderful line at the end of episode 9 of the HBO WW2 series "Band of Brothers." The men of Easy Company get the news that Hitler has shot
160 CarsAir04 : correct, i missed the word "would not have" which is what I meant to say, thanks for correcting that!
161 Post contains images AirframeAS : Not a problem sir! Not a problem!
162 Cubsrule : I've puzzled over this for the past couple of weeks, and I'm not sure I agree. For many, perhaps most, business travelers, F9's network has never bee
163 airlinewatcher1 : It's hard to know for sure if Frontier's employees would have been better off if Southwest had bought them out instead of Republic. But I will say tha
164 airliner371 : F9 going down to 2 next month. Going down to 1 I believe. WN has no way to serve DCA to Denver.
165 Post contains images mariner : I like it, but Frontier was being called that - the little airline that could - back in 1998 when I first started following the airline. It still fit
166 Flytravel : Some out of the box thinking: ACY-CLE-DEN. The PHL-CLE fares and NYC-CLE nonstop fares that I see one month out mid week are close to $900 r/t.. The
167 bjorn14 : Hmmm....it's still pretty warm in the winter albeit not for SBAers. It might be tough for a 319 to make it with the short rwy at TTN
168 AirframeAS : No, it's not hard. The writing was on the walls at Love Field and at Tower Road......as well as the FAQ that WN wrote for all to see on the Internet.
169 NWADTWE16 : Meanwhile, while everyone discusses F9 demise LOL..i run into the problem of them having NO AVAILABILTY for booking almost every day on every route so
170 floridaflyboy : Employees are always going to suffer when times are tough. Quietly Frontier has replaced employees with third party vendors in a number of stations. I
171 Post contains links GentFromAlaska : But F9 already flies the A319 between TTN-MCO. Flight 0319 http://www.flyfrontier.com/plan-book/routes-schedules/route-map Why would the runway lengt
172 freakyrat : Just curious: Who is going to ground service Frontier at SBN?
173 slcdeltarumd11 : But southwest has a large network that can reroute business people on the too frequent weather/mainenance or ATC delays nowdays. Plus for LA southwes
174 Cubsrule : Of course, WN will not rebook on other carriers, which comes with its own set of problems. Speaking for myself and most of the business travelers I k
175 floridaflyboy : DGS
176 ScottB : Let's be a bit more accurate about what was said. WN management never said that "none if [sic] the F9 employees were going to keep their jobs;" they
177 Post contains links bjorn14 : I was thinking if F9 would have a weight penalty as DEN is 1576 plus winter headwinds and MCO is only 896. It looks like RW has renegotiated their pa
178 GentFromAlaska : Considering the two distances between TTN-DEN and TTN-MCO the DEN flight would potentially have less overall weight with the extra fuel burn. If memo
179 AirframeAS : Uhm, indirectly, they did. They said that they would keep on board some employees on an "as needed basis". That was ZERO guarantee that anyone was go
180 ScottB : There is a very wide difference between saying that NONE of the F9 employees would be kept on (as you claimed) and Southwest's statement that they wo
181 Post contains links mariner : Not just management. Very few people at Frontier wanted it. It seems weird to be reliving this - there were so many reasons why it didn't happen. Air
182 FRNT787 : I think much of the reason was also to avoid DENs taxes on aircraft parts. Thats a big reason why COS was to become a maintenance base if I recall. N
183 Post contains images slcdeltarumd11 : Wait sorry maybe im confused. I dont think TTN runway would be any problem for the 319 on landing of course even fully loaded and every bag possible
184 Post contains links mariner : I thought that too, but I;m not technically minded. However, they are doing something to the runway at TTN, which would affect landing, I guess (?),
185 GentFromAlaska : I don't either. The content was about a 319 landing at TTN because of the runway length. I had pointed out that F9 already flies the 319 between TTN-
186 ScottB : I don't see the disagreement. If Frontier management had pushed for a deal with Southwest (and sold the benefits of higher pay and history of job sec
187 GentFromAlaska : Sometimes but not always. East to West flying is generally well managed with altitude adjustments or course deviations where necessary. An engineer m
188 mariner : I don't know what might have been. There may have been too much ugly history to overcome. I'm not aware that Republic wrote off any debt, unsecured o
189 Post contains links GentFromAlaska : Courtesy http://www.usatoday.com/travel/flights/airline-capacity-map.htm is a state by state listing of airport growth or shrinkage as it relates to a
190 enilria : ScottB did a fine job correcting the record on that one, so I'll let it lie. The AirTran merger is changing people's minds. WN has changed a lot sinc
191 AirframeAS : Does anyone still have that link to the F9/WN merger FAQ that WN wrote? This would solve a lot of our disagreements with ScottB and Enilria here......
192 Post contains images mariner : I didn't say they welcomed it. It is the human element, we're dealing with people here. Mostly, the people at Frontier had enormous and understandabl
193 smoot4208 : Enilria, you aren't comparing apples to apples. As I stated above, a WN/FL merger is growth for WN. You using that as an example is irrelevant. Try co
194 Post contains links ScottB : It's not necessarily any more "growth" than merger with F9 would have been, especially taking into consideration WN's decision to sublease the 717 fl
195 mariner : Some if it maybe. Some of it may have been paranoia by the staff. Some if it, at least, was fostered by Southwest staff. Gosh, some of it may even ha
196 Post contains images AirframeAS : So, with that said, you do actually agree on what would have happened to the F9 employees then. Contradicting yourself here...... Uh, sure, okay.
197 Atrude777 : You and ScottB are both right... You are for WN stating not everyone would keep their job, BUT, Scott B also for saying WN did say some jobs would be
198 Post contains images AirframeAS : I had asked the same question before earlier in the thread. No one here has answered as to why this is even relevant now.....two whole years, and the
199 GentFromAlaska : Ego's and down right stubbornness.
200 mariner : Trying to move us back into the present, there was another hail storm at DEN yesterday. It wasn't as bad as the big one, a couple of years ago, but on
201 FRNT787 : One aircraft is certainly better than the 11 or 12 of last year. I'm presuming this came as the schedule was slowing down a bit as well. Hopefully th
202 AirframeAS : 921 seems to be having a bad life at F9, can't seem to get a break from all this weather abuse! It was 18 planes with 906 getting the most abuse and
203 Post contains links and images mariner : There's a (small) hoo-haa going on because as of November 1, Frontier will no longer accept pets as checked baggage, in the hold. I am a wee bit sympa
204 GentFromAlaska : I'm assuming this is with the pet owner onboard the aircraft or does it apply only to unaccompanied pets? If its the later I can another sect of the
205 mariner : That applies at Frontier (and the health certificate), I think all airlines at least in the US. When we first flew the dogs to Spain there as some co
206 CarsAir04 : It applies to any animal checked as baggage. Pax can still transport their pets as cargo, but I believe the fees are higher. The temps at F9 were 45-
207 freakyrat : On a Bright Note: SBN-DEN flights on the Notre Dame Stanford weekend are sold out. Demand for seats into and out of the Bend that weekend are so high
208 Post contains images mariner : If Notre Dame/Stanford is October 13, Frontier doesn't appear to have added a flight for that weekend. However, the website is showing a second fligh
209 freakyrat : The return flight to Denver is full on Sunday. I guess they are overnighting the extra A320 in SBN on the 20th to fill up with the overflow of fans he
210 freakyrat : Another take on the extra F9 flight to SBN from DEN on Saturday on Saturday Oct 20th is that BYU charters from Frontier for the football team's travel
211 LAXintl : Frontier notified Orange Country that it was vacating and permanently returning a slot for the 2013 schedule year. Looking at the F9 online schedule l
212 AirframeAS : Any reason why? Those flights were packed to the gills!
213 airliner371 : No surprise, they are competing with WN on the route.
214 airlinewatcher1 : Frontier's leaving Orange County? That's too bad if true. LAX will be the only LA area airport left with F9 service. Plus, SAN, PSP, and SBA for So Ca
215 Cubsrule : Cutting a flight, not exiting the market.[Edited 2012-09-28 18:19:59]
216 mariner : Yield. DEN-SNA has plenty of capacity and while Frontier fills the planes, there's a price to that. The route may be more profitable with 3 x daily i
217 AirframeAS : That's really too bad. F9 is the best carrier to get to SNA, IMO. It's also too bad they don't have the 7pm flight back to DEN anymore!
218 mariner : I see it as good - LOL. I've been waiting for something like this to happen for a long time. If Frontier stayed independent, with no bk and no MKE Di
219 LAXintl : I'm sure lots of things go into the decision. Surely the fleet reduction ultimately effects how many flights can be flow, so thelow hanging fruit get
220 mariner : That's what I mean about wasting energy and losing money - although, to be fair, the 8th frequency was essentially a repo, to get a plane to the coas
221 airlinewatcher1 : At one time, I remember seeing F9's low frequency of flights as a weakness. On most routes, 3 or 4 flights a day was the most they flew to the spokes
222 mariner : Never totally irrelevant, of course, but "as far as possible". DEN-CLE is the most obvious example of this. If Southwest starts it, or if United bump
223 Post contains links and images mariner : And in line with that, here's a piece about the summer at GTF: http://www.greatfallstribune.com/art...%7Cnewswell%7Ctext%7CFrontpage%7Cp "Frontier Ai
224 727tiger : Unfortunately for those of us in Southwest Missouri who had grown to like F9's service, it appears to be pulling out of BKG as of April 6, 2013. Accor
225 Post contains images airliner371 : I am seeing a pattern here . WN starting, F9 ending. Waiting for F9 to end GRR, DAY and DSM (as well as a few others). This opens BKG up to DEN with
226 727tiger : Well, I know BKG management has been dreaming of and drooling over SWA since BKG opened as the airline that could make BKG profitable. So far, SWA has
227 MSYtristar : Sad to see Cliff Van Leuven, the VP of Customer Service, leave the company. He was a good guy and he knew the business. He was also very well respecte
228 airliner371 : Thats because an airline is not allowed to operate service to a destination that another already serves. WN couldn't start BKG-DEN because F9 was ope
229 727tiger : Yes, I know that about BKG. My only point was we haven't, so far, heard anything from SWA regarding its post-April 6, 2013 intentions for BKG.
230 airliner371 : Well their are two reasons. Their schedule only goes out through April 12, and this is new news, they aren't going to make a decision in less then a
231 petteri : This is sad to hear! During my relatively short stint at F9 the "Groovin' with Van Leuven" newsletters were a highlight of the week! I certainly lear
232 smoot4208 : Now that BKG knows WN is sticking around, I wouldnt be surprised if the BKG airport authority informed F9 that they were going to pursue WN service to
233 AirframeAS : Any reason for his departure? This is a tremendous blow to F9, one of the very last F9 leadership guys before RAH ever set a foot on the property. I
234 MSYtristar : Not sure, but I agree, it's a huge loss.
235 Post contains links mariner : I'm wondering - only wondering - if COU has something to do with this: http://www.columbiatribune.com/news/2012/sep/19/airport/ "On several occasions
236 smoot4208 : My sources say that AA will begin 1 x daily service from ORD-COU. I haven't heard anything about DEN-COU.
237 mariner : So the article would be at least half accurate, then. Of course, if DEN-COU does start, it might not be Frontier. It as easily could be United. marin
238 mariner : I haven't commented about this because I don't know what is going on and I've been trying to find out - no luck so far. On face value, I think you're
239 smoot4208 : If anyone's interested, I pulled the February schedule to look at where the remaining E190s will be going to out of DEN. I listed the total number of
240 rj777 : hmmm..... wonder why OMA is the 2nd biggest number?
241 Post contains images mariner : I've heard from dickie birds I trust now, and BKG isn't being dropped by Frontier. It goes back to daily on April 7. So my "face value" post doesn't
242 smoot4208 : Well with the DCA service it looks like they have to fund the MCI-DCA service somehow.
243 smoot4208 : Personally, I can't see why F9 would drop this route. It's been increased to daily, and on top of that, it's the ONLY route in the system that is shi
244 mariner : Indeed. But as you said: That ls certainly been an issue on my mind. It was always easy enough to imagine BKG making itself more attractive to Southw
245 mariner : On the subject of BKG, it puzzles me that Frontier has done so well on DEN-BKG and Airtran with ATL and MCO - but that the several other routes that h
246 MSYtristar : ATL is going to "almost" one flight a day in January it looks like. A second flight looks like it will operate once a week (Thursdays) according to th
247 freakyrat : Hey Folks Frontier is adding an extra flight SBN-DEN Thursday October 18th. Flight 802 (a 150 seat Airbus A320) will leave South Bend at 1:32 PM arriv
248 Post contains images F9animal : Yes, F9 has one of the strongest pet policies I have ever experienced in my vast airline experience. I recall a few times where a pet was accidentall
249 mariner : Siegel was stabbed in the back (and the front and the sides) at US Airways. The US Airways staff hated him - the Prince of Darkness - largely because
250 smoot4208 : A couple of tidbits: For PVU, I spot checked several dates from both PVU and SLC to DEN, DFW, MDW, and MCI and on all dates SLC was about 20% higher t
251 smoot4208 : I disagree. Seigel was brought in to cut costs. He never went about it the right way though. He outright told the pilots that if they took a 3rd roun
252 mariner : I guess it depends on what people want - or expect in leadership. The staff all approved Mr. Lakefield and that ddin't help help the airline. Some of
253 freakyrat : If Siegel was brought in to control costs than I can see why it is a very smart move to fly an extra flight SBN-DEN-SBN out of the BYU team charter fl
254 mcg : Actually F9 is pretty clever about positioning planes for college football charters. They usually avoid an empty repositioning flight. One example is
255 GentFromAlaska : Reminds me of Sheriff Buford Pusser of Shelby County Tennessee (Memphis) back in the 60's. He spoke softly but carried a big stick literally.
256 iowaman : At first I was a little confused, but It looks like in February CID will be 4x weekly, switching to almost all mainline (which is why there is only 4
257 Post contains links and images mariner : Along with the refashioning of the airline, I keep hearing chirps from dickie birds that Frontier is thinking of changing the IFE system. IFE has come
258 gustywinds : Cliff VanLeuven is leaving Frontier to become the TSA Federal Security Director at MSP. This was a long process and sources say they've known for a mo
259 freakyrat : I remember the last time BYU played Notre Dame in SBN the F9 football charter repositioned to MDW and flew a flight from MDW-DEN. Now that F9 serves S
260 F9animal : Wow! Thanks for the info! TSA is darned lucky to have him. He will no doubt bring some changes, and really tackle any issues that are happening at MS
261 airliner371 : When is this going to happen?
262 bahadir : any word on 190 charters?
263 mariner : Dunno. DS didn't give a specific date (other than "an order this year") when he said they were shopping for them in May, but I believe they have narr
264 727tiger : That would be good news. From our experience, most of the traffic on our F9 flights out of BKG has been O&D from SW Missouri/Northern Arkansas. M
265 nkops : I only know that the 190's will be running out of ACY starting in January for Caesars Entertainment.. I believe 2 will be based there
266 smoot4208 : It looks like DL loaded MSP-RHI starting on 1/4/13. So after a year of wanting out, F9 will finally be able to end MKE-RHI and get rid of the last rem
267 NWADTWE16 : Im sure F9 is stoked about this, apart from sadness associated with leaving any station, i booked someone on this flight MKE-RHI the other day and sh
268 Post contains images slcdeltarumd11 : [ Seems like ACY would make total sense to add scheduled service please please please I would take either MCO or DEN but i would love to see another c
269 GentFromAlaska : For all of the F9 regular posters I ask a favor. If the airport three letter primary IATA code does hyperlink or expand out would you please write the
270 airliner371 : You can easily google it, no need for flight aware.
271 Post contains links and images mariner : This was a fun start to my day - someone wants to buy Frontier and relocate the hub from DEN to MSY - sort of: http://www.businessreport.com/articl...
272 GentFromAlaska : I suppose the F9 name would be changed to Creole Airlines. I'm not sure I could fathom the thought of a alligator and possum tail. In lieu of buying a
273 freakyrat : A nutria and crawfish tail. I smell a nutria with these politicians. This would never work and is a bunch of bull by a bunch of neocapitalists.
274 Post contains links MSYtristar : Just to follow up on Mariner's eloquent post...here's the link for the proposal. http://newfrontierairlines.com/ Seems like the same folks who were pr
275 Post contains links slcdeltarumd11 : www.yahoo.com would solve all of those questions in 5 seconds.......but yeah i agree when Frontier started service to TTN i am sure 99% of people had
276 azstar : IMHO, WN will continue to push F9 out of the DEN market completely and F9 will end up like USA3000, only flying chartered aircraft for Apple Vacations
277 PlaneAdmirer : Proving that ignorance is bliss.
278 Post contains images mariner : Indeed. Dickie birds tell me that Mike Boyd has threatened to sue this group unless they take his name off their proposal. Their quotes of him are fr
279 GentFromAlaska : Darn! those fuzzy math figures again. To get a project of this magnitude off the ground You would think one of investors would be tied to Louisiana o
280 Post contains links mariner : I think most everyone does. Dealing with the real world again, and not some Louisiana Fantasy,there's an interesting wrinkle - the Mercer Count "free
281 PlaneAdmirer : The NIMBYism is crazy. I used to commute across Princeton on two lane roads that couldn't have been more than 7 miles. It took over 45 minutes each w
282 Post contains links GentFromAlaska : It looks like tiny Danville, KY http://flightaware.com/live/airport/KDVK is seeing a lot of aviation today for tonight's VP debate. Even RJET appears
283 Post contains links mariner : The thread is getting quite long, so I've started a new one: New Frontier #39 (by mariner Oct 12 2012 in Civil Aviation) mariner
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That Frontier Thread, Part 5 posted Tue Sep 29 2009 10:43:50 by LipeGIG
That Frontier Thread, Part 4 posted Sat Aug 15 2009 16:26:58 by FlyKev
That Frontier Thread, Part 3 posted Thu Jun 25 2009 02:03:33 by WILCO737
That Frontier Thread, Part 2 posted Mon Mar 23 2009 13:53:08 by Scbriml
New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 119 posted Fri Sep 7 2012 10:05:45 by PA515
Indian Aviation Thread: Part 100 posted Sun Sep 2 2012 10:54:20 by LAXDESI