Coronado From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 1000 posts, RR: 2 Posted (8 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 1790 times:
Very interested to read that Delta and Skywest have been awarded the EAS essential airservice bid to serve IMT Iron Mountain MI - with 13 flights per week to Minneapolis, 6 of which stopping in RHI Rhinelander all to MSP.
I wonder if Delta will start reasserting itself at other stations around the Great Lakes such as CMX as these come up for bid again--. I think CMX would welcome getting a daily rotation to DTW and a daily rotation to MSP instead of the current ORD service.
The Original Coronado: First CV jet flights RG CV 990 July 1965; DL CV 880 July 1965; Spantax CV990 Feb 1973
DeltAirlines From United States of America, joined May 1999, 8771 posts, RR: 13 Reply 1, posted (8 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 1768 times:
Quoting Coronado (Thread starter): Very interested to read that Delta and Skywest have been awarded the EAS essential airservice bid to serve IMT Iron Mountain MI - with 13 flights per week to Minneapolis, 6 of which stopping in RHI Rhinelander all to MSP.
I wonder if Delta will start reasserting itself at other stations around the Great Lakes such as CMX as these come up for bid again--. I think CMX would welcome getting a daily rotation to DTW and a daily rotation to MSP instead of the current ORD service.
I'm pretty sure it's SkyWest bidding on these and not Delta - thus they get to choose whether or not to fly it to Chicago or to Minneapolis/Detroit. Delta (or United depending on the hub) just gets the side benefit of getting some extra traffic.
mayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 9182 posts, RR: 14 Reply 2, posted (8 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 1725 times:
Quoting DeltAirlines (Reply 1): I'm pretty sure it's SkyWest bidding on these and not Delta - thus they get to choose whether or not to fly it to Chicago or to Minneapolis/Detroit. Delta (or United depending on the hub) just gets the side benefit of getting some extra traffic.
Skywest isn't going to make any kind of move like this without the input of DL or UA. The legacy airline is going to have to make the decision if they want to fly there, aren't they? If OO is going this alone and then hoping that either DL or UA would want this route, they're liable to be disappointed unless they've already gotten input and the ok from either one, I would imagine.
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
"The combined annual subsidy rate for Iron Mountain-Kingsford and Rhinelander is $4.03 million - $2.51 million at Iron Mountain-Kingsford and $1.52 million at Rhinelander. The DOT's order will be in effect for two years after SkyWest begins service."..... "Under SkyWest's proposal, the subsidy rate per passenger at Iron Mountain-Kingsford is estimated at $114, compared to $33 at Rhinelander, $37 at International Falls and $48 at Brainerd."
Not really how it works. These are at risk flights. SkyWest does its own market research, determines whether a particular market is better served through MSP/DTW or ORD and then they basically pay a fee to the mainline partner for the use of their reservations system, web/phone sales, support, etc. DL/UA take no financial responsibility for the performance of the route, that risk is all owned by SkyWest. Likewise, outside the fee paid to DL/UA, all profit directly from those routes is owned by SkyWest. It's really a win-win for everyone if the route works out well. Passengers get access to a global airline network, SkyWest gets a nice profit, and DL/UA get some feed.
Success is getting what you want...happiness is liking what you get
JBo From Sweden, joined Jan 2005, 2278 posts, RR: 0 Reply 5, posted (8 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 1666 times:
This proposal was actually bid for and won by SkyWest on their own accord, however back when Mesaba was backing out of the EAS markets, Delta had directly submitted bids for some of these EAS cities in order to allow greater scheduling flexibility as far as being able to send different regional operators to those cities. Not sure without researching if Delta won any contracts that way.
I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance any day.
Goldenshield From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 5427 posts, RR: 12 Reply 6, posted (8 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 1606 times:
While Great Lakes was cheaper, it's quite possible that SkyWest could fill these seats using the "It's not a prop" mantra.
That said, it looks like it's been a banner few years for SkyWest with the upper-midwest markets.
Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun.
I agree with you that this is quite possibly a factor (I have family members who are afraid of flying as it is and will not fly on a prop plane under any circumstances. This is NOT my opinion/fear, but it does exist.), but as the article points out:
"While the Iron Mountain-Kingsford bid from Great Lakes was cheaper, the DOT said it made sense to accept SkyWest's packaged bid with Rhinelander.
"Selecting Great Lakes at Iron Mountain would require us to either re-bid Rhinelander or select Great Lakes at Rhinelander, too," said Susan L. Kurland, assistant secretary for aviation and internal affairs. "If we were to re-bid Rhinelander on a stand-alone basis, the apparent savings at Iron Mountain would be illusory because the cost of serving Rhinelander on a stand-alone basis would almost certainly be higher than via the linear routing proposed by SkyWest."
Goldenshield From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 5427 posts, RR: 12 Reply 8, posted (8 months 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 1473 times:
Quoting zmp0psa (Reply 7): but as the article points out:
Right. I'm not arguing what the DOT said. I'm just pointing out that they could make it a selling point to the customers.
Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun.
mayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 9182 posts, RR: 14 Reply 9, posted (8 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 1348 times:
Quoting ATWZW170 (Reply 4): Not really how it works. These are at risk flights. SkyWest does its own market research, determines whether a particular market is better served through MSP/DTW or ORD and then they basically pay a fee to the mainline partner for the use of their reservations system, web/phone sales, support, etc. DL/UA take no financial responsibility for the performance of the route, that risk is all owned by SkyWest. Likewise, outside the fee paid to DL/UA, all profit directly from those routes is owned by SkyWest. It's really a win-win for everyone if the route works out well. Passengers get access to a global airline network, SkyWest gets a nice profit, and DL/UA get some feed.
Oh, I get that......I just wonder at what point does the legacy chime in and say, OKAY........we'll provide the feed to MSP, DTW or ORD?
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
Goldenshield From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 5427 posts, RR: 12 Reply 10, posted (8 months 1 week 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 1309 times:
Quoting mayor (Reply 9): Oh, I get that......I just wonder at what point does the legacy chime in and say, OKAY........we'll provide the feed to MSP, DTW or ORD?
They can do it any time they want, but they won't get a guarantee. The whole point of EAS is to ensure service to a community by ensuring that a contracted carrier can make its money back with a small profit margin in the process.
Think of it as the government's fee-for-departure scheme.
Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun.
mayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 9182 posts, RR: 14 Reply 11, posted (8 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 1279 times:
Quoting Goldenshield (Reply 10):
They can do it any time they want, but they won't get a guarantee. The whole point of EAS is to ensure service to a community by ensuring that a contracted carrier can make its money back with a small profit margin in the process.
Think of it as the government's fee-for-departure scheme.
Oh, I know that........but OO couldn't start service with feed to MSP, DTW or ORD until they had made arrangements with DL or UA, right? I mean, the service means nothing without the feed, correct?
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
Cubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 21229 posts, RR: 19 Reply 12, posted (8 months 1 week 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 1134 times:
Quoting mayor (Reply 11): but OO couldn't start service with feed to MSP, DTW or ORD until they had made arrangements with DL or UA, right?
Why not?
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
mayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 9182 posts, RR: 14 Reply 13, posted (8 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 1027 times:
Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 12): Quoting mayor (Reply 11):
but OO couldn't start service with feed to MSP, DTW or ORD until they had made arrangements with DL or UA, right?
Why not?
Well, they could, I guess.......just treat the operation like a normal interline connection.
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
RyanairGuru From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 2497 posts, RR: 2 Reply 14, posted (8 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 1007 times:
Quoting mayor (Reply 9): I just wonder at what point does the legacy chime in and say, OKAY.
You're probably correct in theory that the major could decline the route (in which case it would be SkyWest dba SkyWest) but it's probably not a concern in practice. Think about it: the major just got a new route with absolutely no liabilities. Even if we're only talking about a small market they would be dumb to turn it down.
mayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 9182 posts, RR: 14 Reply 15, posted (8 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 978 times:
Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 14): Quoting mayor (Reply 9):
I just wonder at what point does the legacy chime in and say, OKAY.
You're probably correct in theory that the major could decline the route (in which case it would be SkyWest dba SkyWest) but it's probably not a concern in practice. Think about it: the major just got a new route with absolutely no liabilities. Even if we're only talking about a small market they would be dumb to turn it down.
Well, I never really thought the legacy would turn it down, but I thought that at some point, early on, they would have to be involved even though it was EAS and at risk. After all, will those flights not show in the schedule with the legacy's flight number?
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
Goldenshield From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 5427 posts, RR: 12 Reply 16, posted (8 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 866 times:
Quoting mayor (Reply 11): Oh, I know that........but OO couldn't start service with feed to MSP, DTW or ORD until they had made arrangements with DL or UA, right? I mean, the service means nothing without the feed, correct?
If it's at-risk, all OO would have to do is call up the major and say, "Hey, we just won this bid. We'll work out the pricing and flight rotation and report back to you our price point and times."
The only arrangements that need to be made in this situation are that the station is staffed, the flight is loaded in res, the service is advertised, and tickets are able to be sold.
Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun.
mayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 9182 posts, RR: 14 Reply 17, posted (8 months 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 774 times:
Quoting Goldenshield (Reply 16):
If it's at-risk, all OO would have to do is call up the major and say, "Hey, we just won this bid. We'll work out the pricing and flight rotation and report back to you our price point and times."
The only arrangements that need to be made in this situation are that the station is staffed, the flight is loaded in res, the service is advertised, and tickets are able to be sold.
Well, that's pretty much what I meant. I was getting the idea from some posts that Skywest could do it all on their own, regardless of whether DL or UA wanted to participate.
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
Goldenshield From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 5427 posts, RR: 12 Reply 18, posted (8 months 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 757 times:
Quoting mayor (Reply 17): Well, that's pretty much what I meant. I was getting the idea from some posts that Skywest could do it all on their own, regardless of whether DL or UA wanted to participate.
Yes. There IS a limit on the number of at-risk flights, mind you, that's imposed per contract, but other than that, it's free-reign on where they can fly.
Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun.
Sponsor Message: 
From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 1000 posts, 
From Sweden, joined Jan 2005, 2278 posts, 
From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 2497 posts, 
Printer friendly format 
