Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
SNA Expanding - Any More New Routes?  
User currently offlineKLAXAirport From United States of America, joined Nov 2011, 152 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 10704 times:

With Interjet flying to SNA from Gudalajara and Mexico City starting October 11th and WN starting service from Houston-Hobby to SNA starting on November 4th my question is, Are there any other routes/airlines that you guys would expect to come into SNA? I could possibly see AA or DL starting JFK-SNA. No airline serves this route and the only competition would really be the EWR-SNA flights on UA. Will AC ever come back? I remember doing YYZ-SNA the one summer they did the flight and it was pretty full on the A319 but, the crew said going back they were only taking around 50 or so
people. WJ serves YYC and YVR to SNA so I could see AC doing a flight from Canada. The only question is gates?

Cheers,
KLAXAirport   

46 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25776 posts, RR: 50
Reply 1, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 10677 times:

Only question is slots....


In reality, you are asking airlines to return to routes that have failed.

AA tried JFK-SNA for a few years, while DL has tried it also as late as 2011.

Air Canada has simply failed at secondary LA airports, both SNA and ONT were bust.


Personally I'd look for SWA to continue to add to its SNA slot portfolio as the opportunities arise as it seems to be the most consistent and dedicated airline serving the airport.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlinemcmax From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 305 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 10649 times:

Quoting KLAXAirport (Thread starter):
With Interjet flying to SNA from Gudalajara and Mexico City starting October 11th

When was this approved? I thought they had asked for DOT approval, but has DOT approved already? And, has SNA granted the two slots? I went to ocair.com, and didn't see any press release indicating the new service was approved.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 1):
I could possibly see AA or DL starting JFK-SNA.
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 1):
AA tried JFK-SNA for a few years, while DL has tried it also as late as 2011.

I am hopeful AA will restart the SNA-JFK again with their new cost structure, but I'm not holding my breath especially since AA's 757 fleet (which flew the route previously) is slowly being retired. And, for DL, didn't they replace SNA-JFK with SNA-LAS in order to hold the slot?



De minimis non curat lex tamen ego curao
User currently offlinemidex461 From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 282 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 10647 times:

Wouldn't mind seeing either SNA-CLT or SNA-PHL on US


Opinions and views expressed are MINE and do NOT represent the views of US Airways
User currently offlineKLAXAirport From United States of America, joined Nov 2011, 152 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 10620 times:

Quoting mcmax (Reply 2):
When was this approved? I thought they had asked for DOT approval, but has DOT approved already? And, has SNA granted the two slots? I went to ocair.com, and didn't see any press release indicating the new service was approved.

DOT has approved the request and SNA has granted those two slots and service begins October 11!  

Cheers,
KLAXAirport   


User currently offlineLMP737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 10588 times:

New terminal, new flights out of SNA and the same old 5600ft runway! With the the vertical climb on takeoff and the carrier landings.  

User currently offlineBoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 3160 posts, RR: 7
Reply 6, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 10450 times:

Quoting midex461 (Reply 3):
Wouldn't mind seeing either SNA-CLT or SNA-PHL on US

US tried SNA-PHL for a very short time. They did PIT-SNA for many years.

Quoting LMP737 (Reply 5):
New terminal, new flights out of SNA and the same old 5600ft runway! With the the vertical climb on takeoff and the carrier landings.

Actually it's 5700 feet.   The 737-800 has FAA approval to do a normal takeoff profile out of SNA. It has apparently demonstrated that it can meet the noise requirements with the steep climb and power cutback. The 717 was the same during the short time Midwest Express flew into there. I'm not clear why the 737-800 can do a normal takeoff profile, but the 737-700 still has to do the special procedure, albeit fairly watered down.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 1):
Air Canada has simply failed at secondary LA airports, both SNA and ONT were bust.

Yep, unfortunately. AC also dropped out of SJC in around 2002.


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25776 posts, RR: 50
Reply 7, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 10399 times:

Quoting mcmax (Reply 2):
When was this approved? I thought they had asked for DOT approval, but has DOT approved already? And, has SNA granted the two slots? I went to ocair.com, and didn't see any press release indicating the new service was approved.

All done. They even had their noise qualification test completed couple weeks back.

Follow the thread
Interjet Seeks To Add CHI, IAH, LAS, And SNA (by LAXintl Aug 15 2012 in Civil Aviation)



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineMAV88 From United States of America, joined May 2011, 183 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 10295 times:

Haven't some people speculated MIA-SNA could happen and that the demand was there for at least 1 x daily year round flight?

User currently offlineRwy04LGA From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 3176 posts, RR: 8
Reply 9, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 10164 times:

Quoting KLAXAirport (Thread starter):
I could possibly see AA or DL starting JFK-SNA. No airline serves this route

I flew JFK-SNA the second day of DL's operation, plane was almost empty, same thing going back 3 days later. By the time I was ready to repeat the trip...it was cancelled.



Just accept that some days, you're the pigeon, and other days the statue
User currently offlineolddominion727 From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 393 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 10151 times:

AA, TW, HP, DL have all done SNA-JFK. It DOES NOT WORK. Not sure why. I am sure folks here that study the yields can better answer that. It seems SNA or BUR to JFK would be great with the areas they are in both relatively close to LA, Hollywood, Disneyland etc. but seems like no dice. Seems like it should be to me too... but the yields aren't there to keep it going.

User currently offlinechrisair From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 2134 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 10124 times:

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 6):
The 737-800 has FAA approval to do a normal takeoff profile out of SNA. It has apparently demonstrated that it can meet the noise requirements with the steep climb and power cutback. The 717 was the same during the short time Midwest Express flew into there. I'm not clear why the 737-800 can do a normal takeoff profile, but the 737-700 still has to do the special procedure, albeit fairly watered down.

DL and AS have to do the power reduction on their -800s. AA is the only airline (I believe) that does a standard departure out of SNA with the 737-800. I suspect someone at AA told a few influential people in Newport and something happened.  
Quoting mcmax (Reply 2):
And, for DL, didn't they replace SNA-JFK with SNA-LAS in order to hold the slot?

I think they added it to SLC or one of the other hub airports. Only WN and FL do the SNA-LAS run.


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25776 posts, RR: 50
Reply 12, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 10110 times:

Yes Delta did SNA-LAS to sit on a slot
Delta Commence SNA-LAS Service (by LAXintl Nov 22 2010 in Civil Aviation)



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineolddominion727 From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 393 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 10040 times:

you're right. LAS was a focus city for DL and did fly to SNA... they did LAX, SNA, SAN, FLL, JFK, DFW, SLC, ATL, CVG, BOS, MCO, TPA, SEA, PDX maybe MSY--all of these at one point or another. I may be missing a few. most of the ones were red-eyes from LAS if I remember correctly.

User currently offlineBoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 3160 posts, RR: 7
Reply 14, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 10029 times:

Quoting chrisair (Reply 11):
DL and AS have to do the power reduction on their -800s.

Is that right? I think you'd know because I believe you are an AS employee, from past posts. However, I worked with an AS pilot recently who also worked part time at my certain company. He told me that AS did the normal profile on the 738s, but not 73Gs.

In any event, I did fly out of SNA last year on the 7:00am SNA-SEA flight it was pretty lame. No full run-up before brake release; barely a steeper than normal climb; and barely a cutback. If I wasn't watching for the non-standard procedure, a normal passenger wouldn't really even notice anything different. They didn't even bother to announce it to the passengers like they used to. It was much more noticeable in a 737-400 or MD-80, which of course aren't as quiet as a 737NG.


User currently offlineconnies4ever From Canada, joined Feb 2006, 4066 posts, RR: 13
Reply 15, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 9964 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 1):
Air Canada has simply failed at secondary LA airports, both SNA and ONT were bust.

But what influence did the US economic collapse play into this ? Along with SJC, GSO, AUS, and some other destinations. Also wondering with the greater LA area, are lack of onward cnx ex SNA and ONT a factor, and what percentage of LAX-destined pax are going onwards (AKL, RAR, and PPT come to mind as AC don't serve any of them) ?

When (or if) the US economy comes back, I think AC might give SNA another go. Before it was a daily 319, perhaps 2x with an E190 might offer pax more flexibility.



Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3770 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 9870 times:

Quoting olddominion727 (Reply 13):

you're right. LAS was a focus city for DL and did fly to SNA... they did LAX, SNA, SAN, FLL, JFK, DFW, SLC, ATL, CVG, BOS, MCO, TPA, SEA, PDX maybe MSY--all of these at one point or another.

Not to mention that NW had an LAS focus city for a while.

In addition to the usual DTW/MEM/MSP, NW served a few other cities from LAS in the mid-2000s. NW offered flights to LAX (feed for Asian routes), MKE, IND (which was 2x daily at one point, and even briefly stuck around after the DL merger), and some smaller Midwestern cities (FNT, GRR, MSN, FSD, DSM) as part of the heartland strategy. The small city runs were mostly done to scare G4 off the same routes (or nearby cities in the case of GRR), and were done with schedules similar to G4's on A319s. It worked for MSN, but not the others.



"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
User currently offlineslcdeltarumd11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3556 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 9821 times:

IIRC deltas recent JFK-SNA attmept had horrible times. With LAX having such frequency to JFK and low prices i think an airline needs good times or at least 2x daily to get people.

I think there is certainly demand if an airline would time it ideally or offter 2x time options but again it becomes an issue of slots. If not UA offers great and frequent service to EWR 3x a day and rumor is quite a profitable route so if no one wants to challenge them i am sure united has no problem moving those passengers to the tri-state area by themselves. Whenever i look that N/S up last minute it usually significantly noteworthy more expensive than LAX N/S even with uniteds 3xdaily its a great route for them

[Edited 2012-09-15 15:28:37]

User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25776 posts, RR: 50
Reply 18, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 9628 times:

Quoting connies4ever (Reply 15):
But what influence did the US economic collapse play into this ?

ONT was dropped in 2007

SNA dropped in 2010

I don't know how you want to define "economic collapse", but my take is the routes failed for their own reasons (for example SNA should have been connected to much bigger YVR not YYZ, plus the YYZ times were bad for connections ex YYZ).

Even AC at LAX has been stagnant for ages. Imo more of things ongoing at AC, then market issues.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineconnies4ever From Canada, joined Feb 2006, 4066 posts, RR: 13
Reply 19, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 9516 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 18):
SNA should have been connected to much bigger YVR not YYZ

Traffic and cnx options at YYZ dwarf YVR.



Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25776 posts, RR: 50
Reply 20, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 9377 times:

If AC flew SNA-YYZ solely to collect connections to who knows where, they are a bigger fool then I thought.

The final AC SNA schedule had weak connection options at YYZ. AC785 had a 9am departure from YYZ with a 9pm return on AC786.

It helps if you have an underlying local market, and the reality is YVR is a 5x larger local market from SoCal than YYZ is.

Anyhow AC demise opened the door for WS at SNA, so it all worked out.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 21, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 9149 times:

I know this is a huge pipe dream, but I'd like to see the new UA expand at SNA with more flights to/from DEN using the 738.


A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlinesouthwest737500 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 9122 times:

SNA- CLT would work great with a 752

User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17671 posts, RR: 46
Reply 23, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 9035 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 18):
I don't know how you want to define "economic collapse", but my take is the routes failed for their own reasons (for example SNA should have been connected to much bigger YVR not YYZ, plus the YYZ times were bad for connections ex YYZ).

LAX is by far the preferred airport for the area, and the volumes and yield reflect that. That's why a lot of things don't work at SNA: the fares are lower, the market is smaller, and the prize for that is a mountain of Byzantine paperwork.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineconnies4ever From Canada, joined Feb 2006, 4066 posts, RR: 13
Reply 24, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 8306 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 20):
It helps if you have an underlying local market, and the reality is YVR is a 5x larger local market from SoCal than YYZ is.

What about the reverse ? YYZ and hinterland are much larger than anything on the Wet Coast. That may have been the underlying argument at AC. In any event, hurdles AC had to go through for access to SNA obviously weren't worth it, and of course there is the "opportunity cost" argument: perhaps the 319 allocated to YYZ-SNA was better used elsewhere.

As for WS service to SNA, they are basically a Western Canada-focused airline, their presence in Eastern Canada is fairly minimal. For example, Toronto-Ottawa/Montreal they are now #3, being eclipsed by PD.



Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
25 laca773 : How is FL/WN doing on their daily SNA-MEX, and SNA-SJD flights? Are they planning on adding SNA-GDL?
26 traindoc : SNA to EWR seems to work for UA. Do they have better connections via EWR than are avaiable at JFK? I would expect that pax travelling to major Europea
27 longhauler : AC, (and most large airlines) have access to numbers we can only dream of. If the market was not there, there is not much they can do. The only conne
28 laca773 : It's called money and where there's a lower fare, the majority will connect.
29 slcdeltarumd11 : Non stop from lax is a very limited offering to europe. Ewr offers tons and tons more
30 Beardown91737 : It's also called widespread disdain for LAX.
31 asteriskceo : Loads are pretty good for SNA-MEX and SNA-SJD, however the flights that bring the planes in/out (SFO-SNA, LAS-SNA) have *horrible* loads. We're talki
32 burnsie28 : Add FAR, and I think a couple others. Actually I heard all of it was doing quite well, however, once NW entered bankruptcy and with as many 319's as
33 Post contains images LMP737 : When it gets hot in the summer time the -800 will get load restiricted. That's why I prefer a RR powered 757 when flying out of SNA.
34 kgaiflyer : Canadian snowbird/resort/cruise ship business at SAN and SNA seems to come from YYC, YEG, and YVR and not from YYZ. I don't see how the size of YVR v
35 STT757 : EWR-SNA was one of the first routes CO launched in the Spring of 1994 when they took delivery of their first 757. CO, and now UA, have been serving t
36 737tanker : That is a challenge. When the Marines left El Toro they should have moved the airlines over there and left SNA to GA.
37 MaverickM11 : Peace in the Middle East would have been simpler and more likely
38 LAXintl : Does not change the fact that YVR produces 5x the traffic to SoCal then does YYZ. Yes YYZ might be AC premier hub and biggest city in Canada, but its
39 SANFan : Maybe true for SNA but as far as SAN is concerned, AC has op'd daily nonstop year-round Airbus service to/from YYZ since Summer of 2010. (Prior to th
40 chrisair : Not an AS employee. I did, however, take the SNA-SEA flight that was operated by the -800 (I think, but to be honest they all look the same from the
41 BoeingGuy : I didn't know they ever chopped power at 500 feet. What model was that? The 757 can go from a 25 degree pitch to a 5 degree pitch at the power cutbac
42 Post contains links chrisair : Pre-1992 they cut power at 500 feet. Much to the chagrin of area residents they increased the altitude to 800 feet. Here's the first article I could
43 fxramper : I'll state the obvious, again. There isn't' a ton of room for new routes and definitely not expansion for a slot restricted airport. SNA serves SoCal
44 Beardown91737 : "SNA Expanding" brings visions tunneling the 405 freeway under a runway extension. It can't be said any better than that. The neighbors don't want mor
45 SANFan : Thought I'd mention that AC did pretty much the same thing in SAN, trying both the mid-day turn here as well as the evening arrival/morning departure
46 LMP737 : What MaverickM11 said. "Peace in the Middle East would have been simpler and more likely" Which would not happen since it would turn the 405 parking
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
NWA @ MEM-any Expansion/new Routes? posted Sun Oct 7 2007 12:57:42 by CIDflyer
Any More New Pax 744s? posted Thu Jan 4 2007 16:24:38 by VC10DC10
Any Visible New Routes For Lufthansa Cargo? posted Sun Mar 5 2006 23:41:32 by Avianca
Globespan More New Routes. posted Sun Feb 29 2004 03:54:54 by Bmi330
Easyjet More New Routes posted Fri Feb 27 2004 12:27:21 by Flycro
AAJFK-NRT Any Other New Routes? posted Sun Jan 20 2002 21:46:43 by AA767400
Any More New Airlines? posted Tue Aug 29 2000 20:05:51 by Noise
Any More New Airlines? posted Wed Jul 5 2000 01:44:21 by Yyj
Any More New Airlines? posted Fri May 26 2000 16:54:03 by Noise
Air Canada Announced More New Routes! posted Fri Dec 24 1999 01:22:47 by Jets