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SNA Expanding - Any More New Routes?  
User currently offlineKLAXAirport From United States of America, joined Nov 2011, 152 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 10704 times:

With Interjet flying to SNA from Gudalajara and Mexico City starting October 11th and WN starting service from Houston-Hobby to SNA starting on November 4th my question is, Are there any other routes/airlines that you guys would expect to come into SNA? I could possibly see AA or DL starting JFK-SNA. No airline serves this route and the only competition would really be the EWR-SNA flights on UA. Will AC ever come back? I remember doing YYZ-SNA the one summer they did the flight and it was pretty full on the A319 but, the crew said going back they were only taking around 50 or so
people. WJ serves YYC and YVR to SNA so I could see AC doing a flight from Canada. The only question is gates?

Cheers,
KLAXAirport   

46 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25776 posts, RR: 50
Reply 1, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 10677 times:

Only question is slots....


In reality, you are asking airlines to return to routes that have failed.

AA tried JFK-SNA for a few years, while DL has tried it also as late as 2011.

Air Canada has simply failed at secondary LA airports, both SNA and ONT were bust.


Personally I'd look for SWA to continue to add to its SNA slot portfolio as the opportunities arise as it seems to be the most consistent and dedicated airline serving the airport.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlinemcmax From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 305 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 10649 times:

Quoting KLAXAirport (Thread starter):
With Interjet flying to SNA from Gudalajara and Mexico City starting October 11th

When was this approved? I thought they had asked for DOT approval, but has DOT approved already? And, has SNA granted the two slots? I went to ocair.com, and didn't see any press release indicating the new service was approved.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 1):
I could possibly see AA or DL starting JFK-SNA.
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 1):
AA tried JFK-SNA for a few years, while DL has tried it also as late as 2011.

I am hopeful AA will restart the SNA-JFK again with their new cost structure, but I'm not holding my breath especially since AA's 757 fleet (which flew the route previously) is slowly being retired. And, for DL, didn't they replace SNA-JFK with SNA-LAS in order to hold the slot?



De minimis non curat lex tamen ego curao
User currently offlinemidex461 From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 282 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 10647 times:

Wouldn't mind seeing either SNA-CLT or SNA-PHL on US


Opinions and views expressed are MINE and do NOT represent the views of US Airways
User currently offlineKLAXAirport From United States of America, joined Nov 2011, 152 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 10620 times:

Quoting mcmax (Reply 2):
When was this approved? I thought they had asked for DOT approval, but has DOT approved already? And, has SNA granted the two slots? I went to ocair.com, and didn't see any press release indicating the new service was approved.

DOT has approved the request and SNA has granted those two slots and service begins October 11!  

Cheers,
KLAXAirport   


User currently offlineLMP737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 10588 times:

New terminal, new flights out of SNA and the same old 5600ft runway! With the the vertical climb on takeoff and the carrier landings.  

User currently offlineBoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 3160 posts, RR: 7
Reply 6, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 10450 times:

Quoting midex461 (Reply 3):
Wouldn't mind seeing either SNA-CLT or SNA-PHL on US

US tried SNA-PHL for a very short time. They did PIT-SNA for many years.

Quoting LMP737 (Reply 5):
New terminal, new flights out of SNA and the same old 5600ft runway! With the the vertical climb on takeoff and the carrier landings.

Actually it's 5700 feet.   The 737-800 has FAA approval to do a normal takeoff profile out of SNA. It has apparently demonstrated that it can meet the noise requirements with the steep climb and power cutback. The 717 was the same during the short time Midwest Express flew into there. I'm not clear why the 737-800 can do a normal takeoff profile, but the 737-700 still has to do the special procedure, albeit fairly watered down.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 1):
Air Canada has simply failed at secondary LA airports, both SNA and ONT were bust.

Yep, unfortunately. AC also dropped out of SJC in around 2002.


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25776 posts, RR: 50
Reply 7, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 10399 times:

Quoting mcmax (Reply 2):
When was this approved? I thought they had asked for DOT approval, but has DOT approved already? And, has SNA granted the two slots? I went to ocair.com, and didn't see any press release indicating the new service was approved.

All done. They even had their noise qualification test completed couple weeks back.

Follow the thread
Interjet Seeks To Add CHI, IAH, LAS, And SNA (by LAXintl Aug 15 2012 in Civil Aviation)



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineMAV88 From United States of America, joined May 2011, 183 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 10295 times:

Haven't some people speculated MIA-SNA could happen and that the demand was there for at least 1 x daily year round flight?

User currently offlineRwy04LGA From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 3176 posts, RR: 8
Reply 9, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 10164 times:

Quoting KLAXAirport (Thread starter):
I could possibly see AA or DL starting JFK-SNA. No airline serves this route

I flew JFK-SNA the second day of DL's operation, plane was almost empty, same thing going back 3 days later. By the time I was ready to repeat the trip...it was cancelled.



Just accept that some days, you're the pigeon, and other days the statue
User currently offlineolddominion727 From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 393 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 10151 times:

AA, TW, HP, DL have all done SNA-JFK. It DOES NOT WORK. Not sure why. I am sure folks here that study the yields can better answer that. It seems SNA or BUR to JFK would be great with the areas they are in both relatively close to LA, Hollywood, Disneyland etc. but seems like no dice. Seems like it should be to me too... but the yields aren't there to keep it going.

User currently offlinechrisair From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 2134 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 10124 times:

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 6):
The 737-800 has FAA approval to do a normal takeoff profile out of SNA. It has apparently demonstrated that it can meet the noise requirements with the steep climb and power cutback. The 717 was the same during the short time Midwest Express flew into there. I'm not clear why the 737-800 can do a normal takeoff profile, but the 737-700 still has to do the special procedure, albeit fairly watered down.

DL and AS have to do the power reduction on their -800s. AA is the only airline (I believe) that does a standard departure out of SNA with the 737-800. I suspect someone at AA told a few influential people in Newport and something happened.  
Quoting mcmax (Reply 2):
And, for DL, didn't they replace SNA-JFK with SNA-LAS in order to hold the slot?

I think they added it to SLC or one of the other hub airports. Only WN and FL do the SNA-LAS run.


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25776 posts, RR: 50
Reply 12, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 10110 times:

Yes Delta did SNA-LAS to sit on a slot
Delta Commence SNA-LAS Service (by LAXintl Nov 22 2010 in Civil Aviation)



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineolddominion727 From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 393 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 10040 times:

you're right. LAS was a focus city for DL and did fly to SNA... they did LAX, SNA, SAN, FLL, JFK, DFW, SLC, ATL, CVG, BOS, MCO, TPA, SEA, PDX maybe MSY--all of these at one point or another. I may be missing a few. most of the ones were red-eyes from LAS if I remember correctly.

User currently offlineBoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 3160 posts, RR: 7
Reply 14, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 10029 times:

Quoting chrisair (Reply 11):
DL and AS have to do the power reduction on their -800s.

Is that right? I think you'd know because I believe you are an AS employee, from past posts. However, I worked with an AS pilot recently who also worked part time at my certain company. He told me that AS did the normal profile on the 738s, but not 73Gs.

In any event, I did fly out of SNA last year on the 7:00am SNA-SEA flight it was pretty lame. No full run-up before brake release; barely a steeper than normal climb; and barely a cutback. If I wasn't watching for the non-standard procedure, a normal passenger wouldn't really even notice anything different. They didn't even bother to announce it to the passengers like they used to. It was much more noticeable in a 737-400 or MD-80, which of course aren't as quiet as a 737NG.


User currently offlineconnies4ever From Canada, joined Feb 2006, 4066 posts, RR: 13
Reply 15, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 9964 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 1):
Air Canada has simply failed at secondary LA airports, both SNA and ONT were bust.

But what influence did the US economic collapse play into this ? Along with SJC, GSO, AUS, and some other destinations. Also wondering with the greater LA area, are lack of onward cnx ex SNA and ONT a factor, and what percentage of LAX-destined pax are going onwards (AKL, RAR, and PPT come to mind as AC don't serve any of them) ?

When (or if) the US economy comes back, I think AC might give SNA another go. Before it was a daily 319, perhaps 2x with an E190 might offer pax more flexibility.



Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3770 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 9870 times:

Quoting olddominion727 (Reply 13):

you're right. LAS was a focus city for DL and did fly to SNA... they did LAX, SNA, SAN, FLL, JFK, DFW, SLC, ATL, CVG, BOS, MCO, TPA, SEA, PDX maybe MSY--all of these at one point or another.

Not to mention that NW had an LAS focus city for a while.

In addition to the usual DTW/MEM/MSP, NW served a few other cities from LAS in the mid-2000s. NW offered flights to LAX (feed for Asian routes), MKE, IND (which was 2x daily at one point, and even briefly stuck around after the DL merger), and some smaller Midwestern cities (FNT, GRR, MSN, FSD, DSM) as part of the heartland strategy. The small city runs were mostly done to scare G4 off the same routes (or nearby cities in the case of GRR), and were done with schedules similar to G4's on A319s. It worked for MSN, but not the others.



"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
User currently offlineslcdeltarumd11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3556 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 9821 times:

IIRC deltas recent JFK-SNA attmept had horrible times. With LAX having such frequency to JFK and low prices i think an airline needs good times or at least 2x daily to get people.

I think there is certainly demand if an airline would time it ideally or offter 2x time options but again it becomes an issue of slots. If not UA offers great and frequent service to EWR 3x a day and rumor is quite a profitable route so if no one wants to challenge them i am sure united has no problem moving those passengers to the tri-state area by themselves. Whenever i look that N/S up last minute it usually significantly noteworthy more expensive than LAX N/S even with uniteds 3xdaily its a great route for them

[Edited 2012-09-15 15:28:37]

User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25776 posts, RR: 50
Reply 18, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 9628 times:

Quoting connies4ever (Reply 15):
But what influence did the US economic collapse play into this ?

ONT was dropped in 2007

SNA dropped in 2010

I don't know how you want to define "economic collapse", but my take is the routes failed for their own reasons (for example SNA should have been connected to much bigger YVR not YYZ, plus the YYZ times were bad for connections ex YYZ).

Even AC at LAX has been stagnant for ages. Imo more of things ongoing at AC, then market issues.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineconnies4ever From Canada, joined Feb 2006, 4066 posts, RR: 13
Reply 19, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 9516 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 18):
SNA should have been connected to much bigger YVR not YYZ

Traffic and cnx options at YYZ dwarf YVR.



Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25776 posts, RR: 50
Reply 20, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 9377 times:

If AC flew SNA-YYZ solely to collect connections to who knows where, they are a bigger fool then I thought.

The final AC SNA schedule had weak connection options at YYZ. AC785 had a 9am departure from YYZ with a 9pm return on AC786.

It helps if you have an underlying local market, and the reality is YVR is a 5x larger local market from SoCal than YYZ is.

Anyhow AC demise opened the door for WS at SNA, so it all worked out.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 21, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 9149 times:

I know this is a huge pipe dream, but I'd like to see the new UA expand at SNA with more flights to/from DEN using the 738.


A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlinesouthwest737500 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 9122 times:

SNA- CLT would work great with a 752

User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17671 posts, RR: 46
Reply 23, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 9035 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 18):
I don't know how you want to define "economic collapse", but my take is the routes failed for their own reasons (for example SNA should have been connected to much bigger YVR not YYZ, plus the YYZ times were bad for connections ex YYZ).

LAX is by far the preferred airport for the area, and the volumes and yield reflect that. That's why a lot of things don't work at SNA: the fares are lower, the market is smaller, and the prize for that is a mountain of Byzantine paperwork.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineconnies4ever From Canada, joined Feb 2006, 4066 posts, RR: 13
Reply 24, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 8306 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 20):
It helps if you have an underlying local market, and the reality is YVR is a 5x larger local market from SoCal than YYZ is.

What about the reverse ? YYZ and hinterland are much larger than anything on the Wet Coast. That may have been the underlying argument at AC. In any event, hurdles AC had to go through for access to SNA obviously weren't worth it, and of course there is the "opportunity cost" argument: perhaps the 319 allocated to YYZ-SNA was better used elsewhere.

As for WS service to SNA, they are basically a Western Canada-focused airline, their presence in Eastern Canada is fairly minimal. For example, Toronto-Ottawa/Montreal they are now #3, being eclipsed by PD.



Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
User currently offlinelaca773 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 4050 posts, RR: 2
Reply 25, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 8325 times:
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How is FL/WN doing on their daily SNA-MEX, and SNA-SJD flights? Are they planning on adding SNA-GDL?

User currently offlinetraindoc From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 361 posts, RR: 0
Reply 26, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 8332 times:

SNA to EWR seems to work for UA. Do they have better connections via EWR than are avaiable at JFK? I would expect that pax travelling to major European destinations would prefer non stop service from LAX, rather than connecting via EWR or JFK.

User currently offlinelonghauler From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 5057 posts, RR: 43
Reply 27, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 2 days ago) and read 7858 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 20):
If AC flew SNA-YYZ solely to collect connections to who knows where, they are a bigger fool then I thought.

AC, (and most large airlines) have access to numbers we can only dream of. If the market was not there, there is not much they can do.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 20):
The final AC SNA schedule had weak connection options at YYZ. AC785 had a 9am departure from YYZ with a 9pm return on AC786.

The only connections AC was interested in was to eastern Canada, ie, YOW, YUL, YHZ, YYT, etc, and all of those had good connections to and from SNA at YYZ with the revised day turn schedule.

One may think that connections out of YYZ to Europe would be healthy, but what AC found is that with American carrier competition, the fares for SNA (through YYZ) to Europe, were less than originating YYZ traffic! In other words, SNA-YYZ-FRA (for example) fares were less than YYZ-FRA! So the schedule was rejigged to basically O&D traffic .... and that was not enough to sustain even a 93 seat E190.

Why YVR-SNA or YYC-SNA was not flown is anyone's guess.



Never gonna grow up, never gonna slow down .... Barefoot Blue Jean Night
User currently offlinelaca773 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 4050 posts, RR: 2
Reply 28, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 6900 times:
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Quoting traindoc (Reply 26):
SNA to EWR seems to work for UA. Do they have better connections via EWR than are avaiable at JFK? I would expect that pax travelling to major European destinations would prefer non stop service from LAX, rather than connecting via EWR or JFK.

It's called money and where there's a lower fare, the majority will connect.


User currently offlineslcdeltarumd11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3556 posts, RR: 0
Reply 29, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 6365 times:

Non stop from lax is a very limited offering to europe. Ewr offers tons and tons more

User currently offlineBeardown91737 From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 559 posts, RR: 0
Reply 30, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 6252 times:

It's also called widespread disdain for LAX.


135 hrs PIC (mostly PA-28) - not current. Landings at MDW, PIA, JAN.
User currently offlineasteriskceo From United States of America, joined May 2004, 483 posts, RR: 0
Reply 31, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 4297 times:

Quoting laca773 (Reply 25):

How is FL/WN doing on their daily SNA-MEX, and SNA-SJD flights? Are they planning on adding SNA-GDL?

Loads are pretty good for SNA-MEX and SNA-SJD, however the flights that bring the planes in/out (SFO-SNA, LAS-SNA) have *horrible* loads. We're talking in the teens, twenties, most of the time.


User currently offlineburnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7554 posts, RR: 8
Reply 32, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 3754 times:

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 16):
smaller Midwestern cities (FNT, GRR, MSN, FSD, DSM)

Add FAR, and I think a couple others.

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 16):
It worked for MSN, but not the others.

Actually I heard all of it was doing quite well, however, once NW entered bankruptcy and with as many 319's as they gave back, it wasn't possible to run those LAS flights anymore.



"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
User currently offlineLMP737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 33, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 3587 times:

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 6):
Actually it's 5700 feet. The 737-800 has FAA approval to do a normal takeoff profile out of SNA. It has apparently demonstrated that it can meet the noise requirements with the steep climb and power cutback

When it gets hot in the summer time the -800 will get load restiricted. That's why I prefer a RR powered 757 when flying out of SNA.  


User currently offlinekgaiflyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 4301 posts, RR: 1
Reply 34, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 3036 times:
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Quoting LAXintl (Reply 18):
I don't know how you want to define "economic collapse", but my take is the routes failed for their own reasons (for example SNA should have been connected to much bigger YVR not YYZ, plus the YYZ times were bad for connections ex YYZ).

Canadian snowbird/resort/cruise ship business at SAN and SNA seems to come from YYC, YEG, and YVR and not from YYZ. I don't see how the size of YVR vis-a-vis YYZ bears on the issue.


User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16885 posts, RR: 51
Reply 35, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 2982 times:

Quoting traindoc (Reply 26):
SNA to EWR seems to work for UA.

EWR-SNA was one of the first routes CO launched in the Spring of 1994 when they took delivery of their first 757. CO, and now UA, have been serving the route uninterrupted since 1994. They switched from once daily 757 to three times daily 73Gs when they were delivered in the late '90s.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offline737tanker From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 272 posts, RR: 0
Reply 36, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 2967 times:

Quoting LMP737 (Reply 5):
New terminal, new flights out of SNA and the same old 5600ft runway! With the the vertical climb on takeoff and the carrier landings.


That is a challenge. When the Marines left El Toro they should have moved the airlines over there and left SNA to GA.


User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17671 posts, RR: 46
Reply 37, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 2947 times:

Quoting 737tanker (Reply 36):
When the Marines left El Toro they should have moved the airlines over there and left SNA to GA.

Peace in the Middle East would have been simpler and more likely



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25776 posts, RR: 50
Reply 38, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 2948 times:

Quoting connies4ever (Reply 24):
What about the reverse ? YYZ and hinterland are much larger than anything on the Wet Coast. That may have been the underlying argument at AC.

Does not change the fact that YVR produces 5x the traffic to SoCal then does YYZ.

Yes YYZ might be AC premier hub and biggest city in Canada, but its a much smaller market than YVR is to LA basin.

Based on AC's initial schedule it was pretty apparent they hoped SNA would produce traffic flow to their European network.

When that they did not happen they changed the schedule to a morning YYZ departure and evening return. I'm not sure where one connects to at YYZ at 10pm, but clearly the options are less and route become reliant on a smaller local O&D base.

Quoting 737tanker (Reply 36):
When the Marines left El Toro they should have moved the airlines over there and left SNA to GA.

A whole other discussion, but community did not want to see continued use of El Toro as an airport and opted to turn it into other more mundane uses.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5472 posts, RR: 12
Reply 39, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 2917 times:

Quoting kgaiflyer (Reply 34):
Canadian snowbird/resort/cruise ship business at SAN and SNA seems to come from YYC, YEG, and YVR and not from YYZ.


Maybe true for SNA but as far as SAN is concerned, AC has op'd daily nonstop year-round Airbus service to/from YYZ since Summer of 2010. (Prior to that, they served the route inconsistently since Summer of 2006.) Once AC got away from their constraining gate and schedule arrangement with UA, in June of 2010, things seem to be going fine.

AC also flys daily and year-round SAN-YVR (and has since Winter of 2005) and WS has served SAN-YYC since June of 2009. We seem to be in a good place with Canada service now.

bb


User currently offlinechrisair From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 2134 posts, RR: 3
Reply 40, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 2794 times:

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 14):
I think you'd know because I believe you are an AS employee, from past posts. However, I worked with an AS pilot recently who also worked part time at my certain company. He told me that AS did the normal profile on the 738s, but not 73Gs.

Not an AS employee. I did, however, take the SNA-SEA flight that was operated by the -800 (I think, but to be honest they all look the same from the inside), and we did the typical power reduction.

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 14):
In any event, I did fly out of SNA last year on the 7:00am SNA-SEA flight it was pretty lame.

I think it depends on your pilots and of course the weight of the plane. I had one AS flight (and many WN ones!!) where I swear our pilots had to be ex-military demonstration pilots. Whomever was flying the departure sure did a real quick pitch reduction. Reminded me of the old departure where they'd chop the power at 500 ft and not 800-1000 ft.

Quoting asteriskceo (Reply 31):
however the flights that bring the planes in/out (SFO-SNA, LAS-SNA) have *horrible* loads.

I flew FL SNA-SFO a few weeks ago. We had 60 something on the flight, and only three of us in F. It was my first experience on FL in about 10 years. I'll probably be back on that flight a few more times this year. Much more sane than the 615p WN SNA-SFO flight.


User currently offlineBoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 3160 posts, RR: 7
Reply 41, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 2782 times:

Quoting chrisair (Reply 40):
Reminded me of the old departure where they'd chop the power at 500 ft and not 800-1000 ft.

I didn't know they ever chopped power at 500 feet. What model was that?

The 757 can go from a 25 degree pitch to a 5 degree pitch at the power cutback, so that's pretty intense (normal initial climb pitch is around 15 degrees). The 737-700 is more like from 18 to 12 degrees, so the procedure really isn't that much different than normal these days.

Like I said, an AS pilot told me that they don't have to cut power in the 737-800, just like AA doesn't. So that's all I have to go by. Anyone else know?


User currently offlinechrisair From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 2134 posts, RR: 3
Reply 42, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 2704 times:

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 41):
I didn't know they ever chopped power at 500 feet. What model was that?

Pre-1992 they cut power at 500 feet. Much to the chagrin of area residents they increased the altitude to 800 feet. Here's the first article I could find. http://articles.latimes.com/1992-07-...local/me-3995_1_john-wayne-airport


User currently offlinefxramper From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 7311 posts, RR: 85
Reply 43, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 2597 times:
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I'll state the obvious, again. There isn't' a ton of room for new routes and definitely not expansion for a slot restricted airport. SNA serves SoCal and does everything the residents in the area want; especially the general av owners that park a plane at the airport or commute on a private jet.


I miss the old Anet.
User currently offlineBeardown91737 From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 559 posts, RR: 0
Reply 44, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2495 times:

"SNA Expanding" brings visions tunneling the 405 freeway under a runway extension.

Quoting fxramper (Reply 43):
SNA serves SoCal and does everything the residents in the area want;

It can't be said any better than that. The neighbors don't want more than what is there, and El Toro was not a popular idea in Orange County.



135 hrs PIC (mostly PA-28) - not current. Landings at MDW, PIA, JAN.
User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5472 posts, RR: 12
Reply 45, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 2431 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 38):
Based on AC's initial schedule it was pretty apparent they hoped SNA would produce traffic flow to their European network.

When that they did not happen they changed the schedule to a morning YYZ departure and evening return. I'm not sure where one connects to at YYZ at 10pm, but clearly the options are less and route become reliant on a smaller local O&D base.

Thought I'd mention that AC did pretty much the same thing in SAN, trying both the mid-day turn here as well as the evening arrival/morning departure routine for their YYZ service. Surprising (to me anyway) is that once they got out from under the gate limitations they faced with United, AC quickly went back to the mid-day turn here and now seem to be happy with it. The local O&D traffic seems to be the market that works for them here.

bb


User currently offlineLMP737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 46, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 2153 times:

Quoting 737tanker (Reply 36):
That is a challenge. When the Marines left El Toro they should have moved the airlines over there and left SNA to GA.

What MaverickM11 said.

"Peace in the Middle East would have been simpler and more likely"

Quoting Beardown91737 (Reply 44):
"SNA Expanding" brings visions tunneling the 405 freeway under a runway extension.

Which would not happen since it would turn the 405 parking lot into an end of the world movie. Building a bridge over the 73 and taking over the golf course would be more likely. Not very likely but more so than a 405 tunnel.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 38):
A whole other discussion, but community did not want to see continued use of El Toro as an airport and opted to turn it into other more mundane uses.

Also the people living in that part of Orange County had the money and resources to put up an effective fight against it.


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