CrimsonNL From Netherlands, joined Dec 2007, 1618 posts, RR: 42 Posted (8 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 21400 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW CHAT OPERATOR
Airplane number 2 of the Breitling Jet Team, an L-39 Albatross, crashed near Valkenswaard (The Netherlands) today, on their way back from an airshow in Den Helder. The pilot and a passenger riding in the back ejected safely and reportedly have minor injuries.
I'm quite shocked by this news as I saw them perform at the above mentioned airshow just an hour before the crash. It was their last show of the season and they were heading back to their home base.. The show I must add, was excellent as always! I hope the crew will be alright.
Owleye From Netherlands, joined Feb 2006, 908 posts, RR: 2 Reply 1, posted (8 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 21243 times:
Lates news says: 1 pilot is okay, 1 pilot has hurt his back caused by his rough parachute landing. The Breitling Team is based this weekend at Kleine Brogel AFB for the Sanicole Airshow (Leopoldsburg) last Friday and tomorrow, Sunday. Today the team displayed at the Den Helder Airport Airshow. The team almost reached Kleine Brogel but one of them crashed in a field near the Dutch-Belgian border. No fire, maybe the plane ran out of fuel though that theory is doubtfull as it could have made a fuel stop at nearby Eindhoven AFB. On the picture it looks that it caught a small fire maybe due with a bit fuel left...
ebj1248650 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1932 posts, RR: 2 Reply 2, posted (8 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 21227 times:
I'm no expert but it seems odd the airplane didn't catch fire unless it went in at a very shallow angle and slid to a stop with no major damage.
NASCARAirforce From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3084 posts, RR: 5 Reply 3, posted (8 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 21012 times:
That is good to see that they have ejection seats. The L-39s in the USA are not allowed to have ejection seats due to some dumb FAA rule. Had they been allowed, there is a chance that the pilot in the Hoppers L-39 crash in Iowa a couple weeks back might still be alive. The plane at least was also more recognizable post crash than the Hoppers one.
PW100 From Netherlands, joined Jan 2002, 1983 posts, RR: 10 Reply 4, posted (8 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 20868 times:
Do they have ejection seats? Some media here indeed reported that the pilots used their ejection seat. However the official local police statement was that both crew members parachuted themselves to safety . . .
Immigration officer: "What's the purpose of your visit to the USA?" Spotter: "Shooting airliners with my Canon!"
aerorobnz From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 6326 posts, RR: 14 Reply 5, posted (8 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 20847 times:
Sad to see, I saw them all in TLS earlier in the year with the A380 and I believe I saw #2 by itself a few days later in FNI. Glad all are well though...
michaeljp From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 179 posts, RR: 0 Reply 6, posted (8 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 20806 times:
Quoting PW100 (Reply 4): Do they have ejection seats? Some media here indeed reported that the pilots used their ejection seat. However the official local police statement was that both crew members parachuted themselves to safety . . .
Without wishing to sound like an arrogant chap - how can you parachute out of a moving aircraft without an ejector seat? :P
Captainstefan From United States of America, joined May 2007, 338 posts, RR: 0 Reply 9, posted (8 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 15345 times:
Quoting DualQual (Reply 7): WW2 style, open the canopy and get out. Roll inverted and unbuckle. It can be done.
Do a search for Glen Beneda, great story started off with a bailout - and this is not limited to WWII - Sean D Tucker had to do it in 2006.
FVTu134 From Russia, joined Aug 2005, 168 posts, RR: 1 Reply 10, posted (8 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 14894 times:
Quoting NASCARAirforce (Reply 3): That is good to see that they have ejection seats. The L-39s in the USA are not allowed to have ejection seats due to some dumb FAA rule. Had they been allowed, there is a chance that the pilot in the Hoppers L-39 crash in Iowa a couple weeks back might still be alive. The plane at least was also more recognizable post crash than the Hoppers one.
Actually Ejection seats are allowed but then they need to be serviced according to manufacturer standards and us only certified parts etc... There is a tendency to believe that it's possible to belly land these aircraft into a field due to a fairly benign landing speed but then again this is not a cessna and these aircraft spend a fair bit of their time with the horizon anywhere but horizontal. Most cartridges have a 6 year shelf life and a 3 year installed life, which means you need to count for about 15.000 USD every three years (including chute repacks). This is the bit where most L-39 owners cut corners and where people like the Breitling team set themselves apart.
The L-39's VS-1-BRI Ejection seats, while not the latest technology have a good safety record of getting the pilot out ok, as long as he's inside the envelope. (it's not a zero-zero seat, you need about 90kts/150km/h to get out). Initial reports seem to indicate just that. Crew got safely out of the aircraft and that's what counts.
Hope Jacques Bothelin and his guys will be up in the air soon.
Quoting Captainstefan (Reply 9): Quoting DualQual (Reply 7):
WW2 style, open the canopy and get out. Roll inverted and unbuckle. It can be done.
Do a search for Glen Beneda, great story started off with a bailout - and this is not limited to WWII - Sean D Tucker had to do it in 2006.
Actually if you search for the Flying Legends Mustang crash of 2011 on Youtube you get a perfect example of how a bailout should go.
FVTu134
who decided that a Horizon should be HORIZONtal???
CrimsonNL From Netherlands, joined Dec 2007, 1618 posts, RR: 42 Reply 11, posted (8 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 13772 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW CHAT OPERATOR
From the Breitling Jet Team FB page;
Quote: Dijon, France: 15-09-2012
The Breitling Jet Team thanks everyone for showing their support and concern, but would like to confirm that all their pilots and technicians are fine and well.
During a ferry flight late this afternoon, one L-39c Albatros jet aircraft experienced technical difficulties. The pilot calmly reported the problem to the team, and following the standard safety protocols prepar
ed his aircraft and his technician for the ejection procedures.
The pilot’s experience and professionalism ensured that the aircraft would land in a field away from houses, people or livestock. After ejecting, both himself and his technician landed safely under their parachutes. Both were taken to hospital for precautionary checks, but both are fit and well and looking forward to getting back to their team.
Captainstefan From United States of America, joined May 2007, 338 posts, RR: 0 Reply 13, posted (8 months 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 6097 times:
Quoting FVTu134 (Reply 10): Actually if you search for the Flying Legends Mustang crash of 2011 on Youtube you get a perfect example of how a bailout should go.
Right you are - I think both examples I metioned hit their empannage during the bailout.
planespotting From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3438 posts, RR: 5 Reply 14, posted (8 months 1 week 2 days ago) and read 5541 times:
Quoting Captainstefan (Reply 13): Right you are - I think both examples I metioned hit their empannage during the bailout.
It's hard to tell in the video - did the mustang pilot strike the tail? If not, it looks like he came pretty close. Does the whole parachuting-from-a-cockpit process boil down to having enough strength to jump hard enough to propell yourself away from the inside of the cockpit (I imagine that guy had to climb and stand on top of the seat?) or what? Thanks for suggesting the video.
I heard Beneda's brother give a little presentation on the story of the rescue and Glen did mess up his leg pretty badly on the tail whn jumping out - the Chinese who helped him had to use a makeshift stretcher to move him from camp to camp.
For your second question, yes it does come down to strength in jumping out, but remember that when you're bailing out of your airplane there is most likely some heavy structural damage, so any predictability of what the airplane will do (especially once you remove your weight from the frame) is gone. You may jump and do everything to a T and still slice yourself in half with the stabilizer.
MD-90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 8418 posts, RR: 13 Reply 16, posted (8 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 4051 times:
Quoting DualQual (Reply 7): WW2 style, open the canopy and get out. Roll inverted and unbuckle. It can be done.
It's also another option if the ejection seat fails to fire. Very important to roll inverted before jumping out of an L-39.
Quoting FVTu134 (Reply 10): Actually Ejection seats are allowed but then they need to be serviced according to manufacturer standards and us only certified parts etc... There is a tendency to believe that it's possible to belly land these aircraft into a field due to a fairly benign landing speed but then again this is not a cessna and these aircraft spend a fair bit of their time with the horizon anywhere but horizontal.
I've read that about 30% of the US fleet (200+) of L-39s fly with active seats. They're not cheap and they do have a limited envelope, more limited than that of modern US, British, or Russian 0-0 seats.
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