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Lufthansa Plans To Start New Low Cost Airline  
User currently offlinekl911 From Czech Republic, joined Jul 2003, 5204 posts, RR: 15
Posted (2 years 1 month 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 26238 times:

Quote:

Lufthansa management will present a strategy update to the supervisory board on Wednesday including plans for a new European low-cost airline, WirtschaftsWoche said in an advance extract of its Monday edition

Source: http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...nsa-strategy-idUSL5E8KF0WI20120915



I think this is good news. Mainline LH is obviously to expensive to use on intra european routes which are almost always less then 2 hours flying.

Question is, where will this airline be based? Munich would be my preference since it has no Ryanair or Easyjet base nearby.

57 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinefinnishway From Finland, joined Jul 2012, 311 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (2 years 1 month 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 26253 times:

What is wrong with Germanwings?

User currently offlinekl911 From Czech Republic, joined Jul 2003, 5204 posts, RR: 15
Reply 2, posted (2 years 1 month 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 26196 times:

Quoting finnishway (Reply 1):
What is wrong with Germanwings?

Germanwings is not cheap at all. And Germanwings is a German LCC, I think LH is talking about a new European LCC.


User currently offlinefinnishway From Finland, joined Jul 2012, 311 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (2 years 1 month 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 26132 times:

Quoting kl911 (Reply 2):
Germanwings is not cheap at all. And Germanwings is a German LCC, I think LH is talking about a new European LCC.

Wouldn't it be easier and cheaper just change the stategy of Germanwings than establish a new airline?

I don't think running both would be good for their business, but I may be wrong.


User currently offlinekl911 From Czech Republic, joined Jul 2003, 5204 posts, RR: 15
Reply 4, posted (2 years 1 month 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 26090 times:

Quoting finnishway (Reply 3):
Wouldn't it be easier and cheaper just change the stategy of Germanwings than establish a new airline?

Yes, it would be interesting to know what their strategy is regarding Germanwings. Maybe they will turn that into a LH regional?


User currently offlineairevents From Germany, joined Jan 2002, 885 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (2 years 1 month 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 26090 times:

The new airline will indeed incorporate Germanwings and LH´s non-hub stations. Question is whether fares necessarily will get cheaper, but the airline apparently hopes to bring production costs down quite a bit.


www.airevents.com
User currently offlinekl911 From Czech Republic, joined Jul 2003, 5204 posts, RR: 15
Reply 6, posted (2 years 1 month 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 25904 times:

Quoting airevents (Reply 5):
Question is whether fares necessarily will get cheaper

Yes, LCC doesn't have to mean Low fare airline like Wizzair and Ryanair.


User currently offlinerutankrd From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 3016 posts, RR: 7
Reply 7, posted (2 years 1 month 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 25568 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting kl911 (Reply 6):
Yes, LCC doesn't have to mean Low fare airline like Wizzair and Ryanair.

Agreed just another Cost (reduced) centre employing staff with inferior terms, sub contracting ground services to the cheapest tenderer, BOB catering charging for mainline IT services by the hour, and removal of low margin services from Mainline accounts (shoring up those bottom line results) etc.......
This is LCC in its literal meaning not those headline flexible fares operators !


User currently offlineQazar From Canada, joined May 2006, 338 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (2 years 1 month 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 25531 times:

What about EuroWings... Aren't they owned, or partly owned by LH?

User currently offlinena From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10763 posts, RR: 9
Reply 9, posted (2 years 1 month 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 25463 times:

Quoting kl911 (Reply 6):
Yes, LCC doesn't have to mean Low fare airline like Wizzair and Ryanair.

Well, already now you can fly with LH at the price of Ryanair. At least from Frankfurt it often doesnt make sense to go to "Frankfurt"-Hahn for the additional cost and time lost to get there. I am price conscious, but unless shortterm at busy hours, LH offers a package that alltogether beat even the LCC.


User currently offlineEY460 From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 270 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (2 years 1 month 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 25304 times:

Maybe they are looking for something very similar to Iberia Express. A company cheaper to run but with a service very similar to the mainline company.

User currently offlinekl911 From Czech Republic, joined Jul 2003, 5204 posts, RR: 15
Reply 11, posted (2 years 1 month 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 24999 times:

Quoting na (Reply 9):
Well, already now you can fly with LH at the price of Ryanair. At least from Frankfurt it often doesnt make sense to go to "Frankfurt"-Hahn for the additional cost and time lost to get there. I am price conscious, but unless shortterm at busy hours, LH offers a package that alltogether beat even the LCC.

LH can indeed have 99 euro return tickets, as does KLM, but the 4 euro my brother just paid for EIN-BUD return was really the amount taken of his prepaid creditcard. And those are the flights im looking for.

Lets say 20 euro max per segment and I call it lowfare.


User currently offlinewilco737 From Greenland, joined Jun 2004, 9077 posts, RR: 76
Reply 12, posted (2 years 1 month 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 24983 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
HEAD MODERATOR

How this LCC will be introduced is not clear yet. But I guess some cheap employees will be hired to save that kind of money. About the rest, I haven't read any details either.
Let's wait and see what Wednesday will bring....


wilco737
  



It it's not Boeing, I am not going.
User currently offlineScottishDavie From UK - Scotland, joined Feb 2011, 185 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (2 years 1 month 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 24708 times:

Quoting kl911 (Reply 2):
Germanwings is not cheap at all.

Really? The last time I flew EDI-CGN then a few days later CGN-MUC they were cheap enough for me. Personally I rate 4U as one of the best LCCs in Europe and I hope whatever LH has up its sleeve won't spoil a very good product.


User currently offlineasctty From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2008, 117 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (2 years 1 month 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 24139 times:

LH never managed to run WW at a profit, so it will be interesting to see what their plans are now.
Is the EU not becoming saturated with low cost carriers? Where can't you go with FR, EZY, Norwegian etc?


User currently offlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3711 posts, RR: 19
Reply 15, posted (2 years 1 month 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 24047 times:

I hope it's done in a seamless manner, not like Iberia Express.

User currently offlineju068 From Vanuatu, joined Aug 2009, 2691 posts, RR: 6
Reply 16, posted (2 years 1 month 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 23910 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting kl911 (Reply 11):
LH can indeed have 99 euro return tickets, as does KLM, but the 4 euro my brother just paid for EIN-BUD return was really the amount taken of his prepaid creditcard. And those are the flights im looking for.

Lets say 20 euro max per segment and I call it lowfare.

Well I am sure that Ryanair doesn't pay the same airport charges in Budapest (or Eindhoven) as Lufthansa pays in Frankfurt, so comparing the two doesn't make sense.


User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17660 posts, RR: 46
Reply 17, posted (2 years 1 month 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 23810 times:

Schadenfreude: watching EU (and Asian) carriers make the same mistakes US carriers made 10-15 years ago. 


E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7931 posts, RR: 52
Reply 18, posted (2 years 1 month 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 23043 times:

Well good luck LH... legacies running their own LCC seems like a good idea but has a horrible track record, idk why, but really:

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 17):
watching EU (and Asian) carriers make the same mistakes US carriers made 10-15 years ago. 

  



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlinechootie From Germany, joined May 2007, 290 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (2 years 1 month 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 22562 times:

Quoting kl911 (Thread starter):
I think this is good news. Mainline LH is obviously to expensive to use on intra european routes which are almost always less then 2 hours flying.

...I don´t know what is so GOOd about it, but in my eyes, it just goes to show how ruthless the management can get. Why does eveyone think that a LCC model is the way out.

If folks only want cheap fares, that is sad enough, but to have each and every airline file suit is pathetic         



chootie
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15781 posts, RR: 27
Reply 20, posted (2 years 1 month 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 22505 times:

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 18):
Well good luck LH... legacies running their own LCC seems like a good idea but has a horrible track record, idk why,

They either fail and get shut down or they succeed, suck traffic from their parent, and then get shut down.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlinelaolao From Laos, joined May 2008, 26 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (2 years 1 month 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 20999 times:

Maybe we should collect a track record of legacies founding/running a LCC:

Failure/ Re-Integration:
-Germanwings
-bmi baby
-Go
-Lufthansa direkt


Success:
-Jetstar


More ideas?


User currently offlineKaiTak747 From Switzerland, joined Aug 2012, 157 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (2 years 1 month 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 20898 times:

I don't understand how this will work. There is a huge amount of competition in Europe (e.g. Ryanair, Easyjet, Air Berlin...etc) and I don't see how LH will be able to cut enough costs to offer a competitive product and make this a success.

Remember, a LCC still needs planes, pilots, FAs, and fuel...etc, which all cost a huge amount of money and there is only so much that you can cut. Keep Germans Wings, they seem to be quite low cost and from what I hear very popular with flyers.


User currently offlinejonnyclark From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2011, 114 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (2 years 1 month 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 20680 times:

If i remember correctly, this harks back to the story leaked in Bild back in April...

http://thedesignair.wordpress.com/20...fthansas-new-project-direct-4-you/

...where they state they are going to amalgamate Germanwings and Eurowings, and recreate a brand new low cost carrier. If they can make a European carrier a success, it would be the first legacy carrier to offer a real intra European network of bases. Could be an exciting environment to watch... after all, they may end up improving the services of Ryanair and easyJet through direct competition on routes...

That said, how many legacy carriers really have made a success of a low-cost model.



Jonny, commercial pilot & founder of Thedesignair
User currently onlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25638 posts, RR: 22
Reply 24, posted (2 years 1 month 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 19700 times:

Quoting Qazar (Reply 8):
What about EuroWings... Aren't they owned, or partly owned by LH?

LH owns 49% of Eurowings.


25 lhrnue : Germanwings is the wrong name for an Europen LCC.
26 kl911 : What is sad about that? The cheaper the better, the more often we can fly to visit family, go on holiday, and save the company money on business trip
27 chootie : ....well then go to Mr Oleary or Easyjet and get on with it. Lots of folks want to still have a quality airline and are not pushed by the cheap fares
28 Viscount724 : Unfortunately for high-cost carriers like LH, not enough passengers care about anything other than price, especially on shorthaul routes in Europe, a
29 Polot : Eurowings is now wholly owned by LH.
30 Viscount724 : Then they should update their website. It says LH has the majority of voting rights but continues to own 49% of Eurowings shares. Following quoted fr
31 Post contains links Polot : I'm basing my comment on what is written under the history section of www.eurowings.de about what occurred last August. But I don't know if they were
32 finnishway : Jetstar may be a success, but how did it affect QF? I think QF lost passengers and money to their own competitor, well I don't know is that a good th
33 DeltaMD90 : But there is a flip side, people can now fly for cheap (not because they choose to be cheap, because they're poor)
34 Aesma : Would such a low cost show up on LH website when looking for a flight, or would it be separate, like Transavia for AF-KLM ?
35 RyanairGuru : Actually fairly well. JQ has only replaced QF on low yield tourist routes where QF's high cost structure simply didn't work. While it is true that QF
36 VHHYI : I think it might have helped that Jetstar was based off an already existing LCC (Impulse Airlines) with its own cost base and structure lower than QF
37 jc2354 : They have already tried this with Lufthansa Italia. Jack
38 Unflug : Your German isn't that bad either: they clearly talk about shares and 100% ownership since August 13th 2011.
39 Post contains links oykie : SAS Snowflake Airline . http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAS_Snowflake It did not last too long. There is a lot of to learn from the TED, United Express
40 BlueSky1976 : Ted Metrojet Song Centralwings Snowflake Buzz
41 BMI727 : I'm not sure you could call Song a failure. It ended up being a sort of testbed and some Song elements are now part of mainline Delta.
42 ju068 : Could we add AnadoluJet to the list of failed ventures?
43 callumm92 : I think it's quite a good idea actually - Germanwings is a good brand and a popular airline. Keeping that identity would be a good move in my opinion
44 Post contains images chootie : ....And have you taken notice to the rif-raf on board aircraft lately????? And to top it off, they pay rock bottom--but EXPECT to have the same high
45 Burkhard : Many of our friends here on a.net work for an airline or worked for an airline. They have every good reason on earth to be against this race to the b
46 SKAirbus : Germanwings is becoming more and more integrated with Lufthansa, especially on routes to LHR where they operate from secondary cities like Stuttgart w
47 PanHAM : well, but that seems to be exactly what the intention is. LH has a choice, cut all the loss making, not hub centred routes or make them profitable, o
48 HachikoDog : Is it so that in today´s air travel market national carriers are not so profitable? I mean you have to have an idea or a concept for you company: LCC
49 PanHAM : An LCC sztarts from a clean sheet, legacy carriers have grown structures. SWA is, meanwhile a legacy carrier with grown structures., not too far from
50 Post contains images Semaex : And Southwest is the wrong name for an all-US LCC ... ? Lufthansa Italia wasn't an LCC at all. It was a company which had good service and closed the
51 aeroflop : Great! Another thing that the world does not need..... another low cost carrier. Where the only low cost thing is the crew.
52 DALCE : Although I have doubts that LH will succeed, I believe we should look at a more long term strategy. LH surely recognizes the threats of Norwegian, Eas
53 skipness1E : Let's have short memories and call it Lufthansa Express!
54 PanHAM : Are the LCCs really the target? Take STR-LHR, or HAM-LHR, for LH that is spoke to star hub, in other words not really something which is a primary foc
55 GT4EZY : I speak from a cabin crew perspective here now. For a new recruit starting out at a UK airline tomorrow, the best paid carrier these days is Easyjet.
56 DeltaMD90 : Oh well yeah if they're gonna whine about higher service then they should pay more. If I didn't have such a strong DL bias I'd be travelling on the c
57 Post contains images PezySPU : 10-15 years is an extremely long time, especially in this industry. And US market is different than European and Asian markets. Sorry, but this is al
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